Pat Tillman Conspiracy

[Dr. Lats]

I'm heading out to the Pat Tillman 4.2 Mile Run in Tempe, AZ this Saturday.

I've been doing some research on the life of Pat Tillman, as well as all the controversy that happened after his death.

We all know that 'They' lied to the public about what really happened to Tillman, early on.

From, Pat Tillman, Our Hero...

"Her contempt was directed at a September 25 San Francisco Chronicle story reporting that former NFL star and Army Ranger war hero Pat Tillman, who was killed in Afghanistan last year, believed the US war on Iraq was "f***ing illegal" and counted Noam Chomsky among his favorite authors. It must have been quite a moment for Coulter, who upon Tillman's death described him in her inimitably creepy fashion as "an American original--virtuous, pure and masculine like only an American male can be." She tried to discredit the story as San Francisco agitprop, but this approach ran into a slight problem: The article's source was Pat Tillman's mother, Mary."

AND

"The very private Tillmans have revealed a picture of Pat profoundly at odds with the GI Joe image created by Pentagon spinmeisters and their media stenographers. As the Chronicle put it, family and friends are now unveiling "a side of Pat Tillman not widely known--a fiercely independent thinker who enlisted, fought and died in service to his country yet was critical of President Bush and opposed the war in Iraq, where he served a tour of duty. He was an avid reader whose interests ranged from history books...to works of leftist Noam Chomsky, a favorite author." Tillman had very unembedded feelings about the Iraq War. His close friend Army Spec. Russell Baer remembered, "I can see it like a movie screen. We were outside of [an Iraqi city] watching as bombs were dropping on the town.... We were talking. And Pat said, 'You know, this war is so f***ing illegal.' And we all said, 'Yeah.' That's who he was. He totally was against Bush." With these revelations, Pat Tillman the PR icon joins WMD and Al Qaeda connections on the heap of lies used to sell the Iraq War."

So, Tillman apparently was anti-war, anti-Bush, even though he had initially been inspired to serve his country after 9/11.

The question would become: Would anyone want him dead ('Them') before he could really make make some noise?

Regardless of what Tillmans beliefs were about the war or what really happened to him, nothing can change the fact that he is an inspiration to millions concerning the application of committment, dedication, taking a stand, and staking your life on what you believe.

What do you think?

 

[DAdams91982]

Sounds like propaganda to me... though not saying it is.

My question... if you are anti-war/anti-bush, then why go to fight a war at the order of President Bush? Something just doesnt add up there.

 

[Dr. Lats]

That is a good question.

Because sometimes people's minds change...especially when they are right in the middle of the situation, instead of an outsider being told what is going on.

Emotions were stirred on 9/11, fingers were pointed, action was taken...then people questioned if the action correlated with what happened...Pat seems to be one of these people...

 

[DAdams91982]

Then I still do not understand. He could have exited the military as a Conscientious Objector.

I have seen that avenue taken a few times during my time in.

 

[VolcomX311]

What Adams said.

 

[Dr. Lats]

Your right, he could have...

I think that would be pretty tough to do, considering his story.

 

[rubberring]

Then I still do not understand. He could have exited the military as a Conscientious Objector.

I have seen that avenue taken a few times during my time in.

Oh sure... because that's so easy to do. You just let your superior officer know you've had a change of heart. :suspect: I must have served in a different military than the one you're referring to. Oh, and I'm positive Pat knew he'd have been welcomed back to civilian life and the NFL with open arms. No controversy there. The man made a pledge and stuck by it.

FWIW, one of Pat's aunts is an aide in my school district. I've talked with her about him and I can tell you the Tillmans are very much at-odds with almost everything the Pentagon manufactured after his death.

 

[Zero V]

Then I still do not understand. He could have exited the military as a Conscientious Objector.

I have seen that avenue taken a few times during my time in.

The conscientious object crap got cut a few years ago. Sure you can probably pull it off, but they will keep you on base for damn near a near, tasseling you, delaying you, preventing you from getting home, leaving, doing anything other than cutting grass, eating cold food, etc.

When I was in there was a guy getting out for being gay, and a guy getting out for a badly injured leg...the guy who was gay had been waiting 8 and 1/2 months to be released, the guy with the leg had been there 14 months...

Pentagon is all crap, almost every one of them are useless criminals holding positions they dont deserve.

 

[DAdams91982]

Oh sure... because that's so easy to do. You just let your superior officer know you've had a change of heart. :suspect: I must have served in a different military than the one you're referring to. Oh, and I'm positive Pat knew he'd have been welcomed back to civilian life and the NFL with open arms. No controversy there. The man made a pledge and stuck by it.

FWIW, one of Pat's aunts is an aide in my school district. I've talked with her about him and I can tell you the Tillmans are very much at-odds with almost everything the Pentagon manufactured after his death.

I have served with people who have done so. So you can set down your condescending little attitude there cupcake.

I am not doubting the story, but which one is more believable... a guy who served and served well, or a guy who denied his morals and principles to serve under a president he despised and fight in a war he found illegal?

Is the story wishy washy? Yeah, but so are these so called "Facts'.

 

[DAdams91982]

The conscientious object crap got cut a few years ago.

This is incorrect.

 

[DAdams91982]

I guess I just cannot believe one would kill for something they did not believe in. Take it for what it is worth.

 

[rubberring]

So you can set down your condescending little attitude there cupcake.

Oh, that wasn't condescension, that was flat-out sarcasm... daffodil.

 

[Zero V]

This is incorrect.

Cut as in, still on paper, but it is hell like I described. Imagine being there, knowing its getting you nowhere, suck in a barracks, with no knowledge of when your going home, when people who have been there forever waiting to get home to their families, losing time out of their lives and everything. And you are used as a janitor and for yard detail, and cleaning up the firing range, etc,etc. And of course you get treated like crap the entire time with no known date of freedom. This is not "if"s, this is what I have seen in person. Helplessness in peoples eyes F*$& sucks to see.

I guess I just cannot believe one would kill for something they did not believe in. Take it for what it is worth.

None of the soldiers I talk to believe in this war. They do it out of necessity because their paychecks and insurance comes from the military, and if they dont obey they lose that or worse. They dont kill because they believe in the cause, they kill because they are paid to do it regardless of if they want to.

Yeah we have some Gungho peeps, and some who have a passion. But that portion is shrinking. Out of the last 4 marines, and 7 Army soldiers I talked to in recent months, they all hate the war, thing its not right in any way, but still have had tours, or are leaving.

Its not like they have a choice...After 5 years in the army, you going to pull the "conciseness" objector move and lose all your benefits, your retirement, your support, etc? Especially if you have a family you have to provide for? Killing for something you dont believe in is quite easy, if it puts food on the table.

 

[MrBigPR]

Cut as in, still on paper, but it is hell like I described. Imagine being there, knowing its getting you nowhere, suck in a barracks, with no knowledge of when your going home, when people who have been there forever waiting to get home to their families, losing time out of their lives and everything.

what you did while you were in should be kept private, sir.

 

[Dizmal]

Why? It isn't Vegas...

 

[AE14]

what you did while you were in should be kept private, sir.

priceless

:fest30:

 

[Zero V]

what you did while you were in should be kept private, sir.

Actually that was your mom, visiting day and all. :27:

 

[MrBigPR]

My mom is deceased.

 

[Dr. Lats]

What would Pat Tillman have done after he came back home?

How much influence would he have had?

Who would have not wanted to deal with his influence?

Who would have lost money/power or not been able to score huge amounts of money/power because of Pat Tillman's influence on world events, after he came back from Iraq, did more research, and possibly went public with his findings and experience?

Look beyond the obvious. Its like poker or chess. The more advanced you are, the more levels you think in....

 

[DAdams91982]

What would Pat Tillman have done after he came back home?

How much influence would he have had?

Who would have not wanted to deal with his influence?

Who would have lost money/power or not been able to score huge amounts of money/power because of Pat Tillman's influence on world events, after he came back from Iraq, did more research, and possibly went public with his findings and experience?

Look beyond the obvious. Its like poker or chess. The more advanced you are, the more levels you think in....

So you are saying that a fellow Ranger willfully killed Pat Tillman at the behest of the US Government?

 

[MrBigPR]

So you are saying that a fellow Ranger willfully killed Pat Tillman at the behest of the US Government?

He is trying to....even without knowledge of the military. Civilians tend to see things as they want.

 

[AE14]

no disrespect to Pat Tillman, but he would not have been a big enough name to draw any attention to anything, IMO. I am sure many are against the war (who are in service) however, I think in this instance the conspiracy is a bit of a reach

 

[Dizmal]

priceless

:fest30:

OMG I'm dense... I totally missed that and thought he was serious... at:

 

[Dizmal]

And yeah, plenty of bigger names opossed Bush and the war and they are still breathing just fine...

It was a tragic accident.

 

[MrBigPR]

no disrespect to Pat Tillman, but he would not have been a big enough name to draw any attention to anything, IMO. I am sure many are against the war (who are in service) however, I think in this instance the conspiracy is a bit of a reach

Ur totally right

 

[Lacradocious]

The nice thing about Tillman is he never made it political either way. He did one interview before joining the Army and that was it. I believe Tillman was disheartened by the war in Iraq and probably had a hard time correlating it to the reasons why he joined. The war in Afghanistan started strong, but then turned into a nation building venture. Despite his feelings for or against the war, in my mind, Tillman served honorably and stayed true to his commitment. He didn't stand on a soap box when he joined, and he didn't stand on a soap box if he was disenfranchised with the war.

He leaves behind a great legacy. He was a unique individual and a breath of fresh air. The reason why people are dissapointed with the circumstances of his death have nothing to do with how he felt about the war or how anyone else does. It's the fact that it appears to many that the Pentagon sugar coated his death rather than coming out with what really happened from the beginning.

 

[WhatsaRoid?]

what you did while you were in should be kept private, sir.

lmfao :drive:

 

[BigNutz]

Killing for something you dont believe in is quite easy, if it puts food on the table.

Until later in life when it eats you up inside. My father and grandfather both served in the Army infantry (1st and 4th) and I can tell you from first hand family experience.

 

[MrBigPR]

The ninja editing and complete blindness in this thread is atrocious...

 

[kjkriston]

Then I still do not understand. He could have exited the military as a Conscientious Objector.

I have seen that avenue taken a few times during my time in.

You dont just "get out" as a conscientious Observer. It would have an impact on his deployment, but just cause you dont agree doesnt negate your contract.

 

[kjkriston]

I guess I just cannot believe one would kill for something they did not believe in. Take it for what it is worth.

You would kill if it meant not getting killed....I can ASSURE you of that.

 

[DAdams91982]

You dont just "get out" as a conscientious Observer. It would have an impact on his deployment, but just cause you dont agree doesnt negate your contract.

I know what is entailed in a being a CO. Again, I have known people and have even helped a troop through the process. If you are claiming CO, then you are set to an undeployable status until your hearing.

No, it doesnt just negate your contract, but it does keep you out of war, and will avoid taking a life.

Like I said, If he was so avidly against something, he would have followed his morals.

 

[DAdams91982]

You would kill if it meant not getting killed....I can ASSURE you of that.

You really need to reread what I am saying... He would not let himself be in a situation that entails taking a life if he was high on morals and anti everything. I have served time, and believe in the war and what we are doing, so kind of preaching to the choir.

 

[Dr. Lats]

I'm not saying anything. I am seeking to lay the 'facts' out that we have on the table and not allowing belief to get in the way.

I know people in high places lied about his death early on, so why shouldn't I distrust their second one?

There is no way for me to really know, since I was not there...civilian or not...

 

[kjkriston]

I see what your saying.....guess I misread it....my B.