PA vs ARA

[Shin Sprints]

Maybe best for me to try dose 1.2g with pre-bed smoothie, with other 1.2g 30 minutes pre-workout.

I am taking ABE at the moment and I am dosing that 2*post-workout shake, 2*dinner at 7pm.

Thanks.

 

[kissdadookie]

Maybe best for me to try dose 1.2g with pre-bed smoothie, with other 1.2g 30 minutes pre-workout.

I am taking ABE at the moment and I am dosing that 2*post-workout shake, 2*dinner at 7pm.

Thanks.

Pre and post is probably a better dosing scheme if you're going to try to dose it twice.

 

[Shin Sprints]

Pre and post is probably a better dosing scheme if you're going to try to dose it twice.

Okay, thanks!

 

[ELROCK]

I'm probably a worry wort

I guess it would make sense to refrigerator after opening, but its not on my Fearns SL instructions. Since, I have no issues with keeping it at room temp in a kitchen cabinet I will probably just continue doing it this way

 

[kissdadookie]

I guess it would make sense to refrigerator after opening, but its not on my Fearns SL instructions. Since, I have no issues with keeping it at room temp in a kitchen cabinet I will probably just continue doing it this way

I never used Fearn. I was basing it off of some other tub which I read the label for

 

[young4life]

Idk if this has been asked before but I use Alcar and Na-r-ala on a daily basis for focus and their GDA properties. Does PA SL replace the need to use those two supplements? I'm asking BC some has committed on their ability to focus more in and out of the gym while using SL.

 

[kbayne]

Idk if this has been asked before but I use Alcar and Na-r-ala on a daily basis for focus and their GDA properties. Does PA SL replace the need to use those two supplements? I'm asking BC some has committed on their ability to focus more in and out of the gym while using SL.

No, SL PA won't replace either ALCAR or Na-RALA and their purposes.

 

[young4life]

Thank you

 

[Kickstart7]

Finally ordered some Fearn SL.. A question got the experienced. When should I see some signs that it's taking an effect if it does at all?

 

[Danes]

Finally ordered some Fearn SL.. A question got the experienced. When should I see some signs that it's taking an effect if it does at all?

Musclefullness and apetitte kicked in pretty fast here

 

[Kickstart7]

Musclefullness and apetitte kicked in pretty fast here

this excites me. What about strength?

 

[machinehead]

Strength is the 3rd thing to kick in. Muscle fullness and looking for buffets on yelp are the first two.

 

[Kickstart7]

Strength is the 3rd thing to kick in. Muscle fullness and looking for buffets on yelp are the first two.

how long did it take for u

 

[machinehead]

3rd week after I bumped to 2.4g PA on workout days while keeping the off days at 1.2g

 

[Kickstart7]

3rd week after I bumped to 2.4g PA on workout days while keeping the off days at 1.2g

gotcha.

 

[Danes]

Strength is the 3rd thing to kick in. Muscle fullness and looking for buffets on yelp are the first two.

This

 

[kissdadookie]

this excites me. What about strength?

Strength is something you may notice over time especially if you are one to keep tabs on your progression. It's a moderate strength progression boost but noticeable if you've been tracking progression for awhile anyway to be able to gauge/compare contrast.

 

[Islander73]

I agree it takes about three weeks to fully kick in. I'm amazed at how soy lecithin keeps you gaining at a consistent rate (even 2 months later). Incredible supplement & super cheap.

 

[Kickstart7]

I agree it takes about three weeks to fully kick in. I'm amazed at how soy lecithin keeps you gaining at a consistent rate (even 2 months later). Incredible supplement & super cheap.

this is great to hear!

 

[kdubson14]

Odd, I never got the increased appetite you guys are reporting. Been using 5 tbsp Fearn SL 1-1.5hr pre-wo for many months now

 

[Rocket3015]

I hope I don't get it!!!

 

[Kickstart7]

Odd, I never got the increased appetite you guys are reporting. Been using 5 tbsp Fearn SL 1-1.5hr pre-wo for many months now

have u seen strength and muscle fullness?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

no increase in appetite for me, but noticeable muscle fullness and strength increase (dosing 1.8gm PA prewo...fearn and LEF so far)

 

[Danes]

Odd, I never got the increased appetite you guys are reporting. Been using 5 tbsp Fearn SL 1-1.5hr pre-wo for many months now

It sounds strange and I know , but actually concentrated PA gave me better apetitte than granules. Not so high apetitteboost of granules. Could it be due to other phospholipids found in granules? Not sure but the difference is there

 

[kdubson14]

have u seen strength and muscle fullness?

Increased muscle fullness was very apparent and accumulated very quickly. Weight went up a few lbs very rapidly too. Maybe it helps spare glycogen?

 

[Islander73]

My appetite has been ridiculous as well.

 

[Joshlm69]

boys; does it matter how long pre workout I take my ARA? is 20mins better than 45?

 

[Kickstart7]

boys; does it matter how long pre workout I take my ARA? is 20mins better than 45?

personally I take it after my first few sets of my first excersise, works really well for me. I've done 20 minutes as well, still saw a great pump. Could just be more or it could work for you as well. Maybe experiment!

 

[Joshlm69]

personally I take it after my first few sets of my first excersise, works really well for me. I've done 20 minutes as well, still saw a great pump. Could just be more or it could work for you as well. Maybe experiment!

so you take yours intra? i thought it was pre. so confused

 

[Kickstart7]

so you take yours intra? i thought it was pre. so confused

It is also suggested to take Arachidonic Acid either completely fasted or 45 minutes Pre-workout. The reason for this is that both scenarios favour the depositon of Ara into skeletal muscle which is what we want (for its effects on building muscle). Pre-workout is favoured even more as eicosanoid biosynthesis begins when a body cell is activated by mechanical trauma, or in this instance, exercise. Ara also has the ability to act as a vasodilator which further solidifies its use pre-workout. Avoid taking with food as insulin will deposit Ara in adipose tissue and the effects of the compound will be wasted.

If a pre-workout meal is part of your routine; supplementing with Ara after a decent warm-up may be the next best option.


That's all from Jiigzz ARA guide .

 

[Joshlm69]

It is also suggested to take Arachidonic Acid either completely fasted or 45 minutes Pre-workout. The reason for this is that both scenarios favour the depositon of Ara into skeletal muscle which is what we want (for its effects on building muscle). Pre-workout is favoured even more as eicosanoid biosynthesis begins when a body cell is activated by mechanical trauma, or in this instance, exercise. Ara also has the ability to act as a vasodilator which further solidifies its use pre-workout. Avoid taking with food as insulin will deposit Ara in adipose tissue and the effects of the compound will be wasted. If a pre-workout meal is part of your routine; supplementing with Ara after a decent warm-up may be the next best option. That's all from Jiigzz ARA guide .

Cheers dude!

 

[Kickstart7]

Cheers dude!

yep no problem! Just spreadin the love

 

[MaXopA]

Avoid taking with food as insulin will deposit Ara in adipose tissue and the effects of the compound will be wasted.
.

Does this also apply to the 10g lecithin granules I'm taking together with ARA in order to enhance absorption? I mean, after all that's not considered fasted, as it contains approximately 100 calories

 

[kissdadookie]

Does this also apply to the 10g lecithin granules I'm taking together with ARA in order to enhance absorption? I mean, after all that's not considered fasted, as it contains approximately 100 calories

I honestly don't see the whole insulin theory actually play out in practice here for ArA. I've done both types of protocols. Along with trying the whole GMS + LCLT protocol. Along with the w/ fish oils or sans fish oil protocol. I honestly don't feel like it makes an appreciable difference for most people (likely). I've ran several cycles of XF and XFA at this point.

 

[Danes]

I honestly don't see the whole insulin theory actually play out in practice here for ArA. I've done both types of protocols. Along with trying the whole GMS + LCLT protocol. Along with the w/ fish oils or sans fish oil protocol. I honestly don't feel like it makes an appreciable difference for most people (likely). I've ran several cycles of XF and XFA at this point.

I do agree on this one

 

[aaronuconn]

so you take yours intra? i thought it was pre. so confused

For simplicity sake, I'll take mine pre, even in the presence of insulin.

 

[Kickstart7]

For simplicity sake, I'll take mine pre, even in the presence of insulin.

everyone's different! For me it deff shines if I get a quick sweat in after a few reps of my first major workout then I take then. Insane pumps from there on!

 

[NattyForLife]

So were is the best place to buy PA?

 

[Danes]

So were is the best place to buy PA?

Fearn soy lecithin granules
-cheap
-easy way to get high doses of PA and other phospholipids

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Fearn soy lecithin granules
-cheap
-easy way to get high doses of PA and other phospholipids

This, also, perhaps this is something to consider (I originally posted it in another forum):

Perhaps part of why people are enjoying/having success with soy lecithin granules is not only due to the PA content, but also the PS content. People take up to 4 tbsp (or more) of the granules daily, frequently Fearn lecithin granules. Now, according to examine.com, there is roughly 10x the amount of Phosphatidylcholine compared to PS in soy lecithin, which would mean that, according to Fearn's label, 4 tbsp would contain ~690mg PS, right in line with the amount used in the study that noted an improvement in VO2 max, and more than what was used in the studies that noted cognitive and golf improvements (see studies below).

400mg of phosphatidylserine daily (two protein bars containing 200mg each; placebo given PS-free protein bars) over 2 weeks in a double-blind crossover design [lower body, resistance trained, college aged males] was able to increase the speed of calculations (20%) and improve accuracy (13% more right answers, 39% less wrong) despite not influencing mood state or fatigue.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22017963

750mg of soy based phosphatidylserine for 10 days [active males] is able to improve time to exhaustion in cycling at 85% VO2 max

The main finding of this study was that supplementation had a significant effect on exercise time to exhaustion at 85% VO2max (P = 0.005). The exercise time to exhaustion in PS increased following supplementation (7:51 +/- 1:36 to 9:51 +/- 1:42 min:s, P = 0.001), whereas P remained unchanged (8:09 +/- 0:54 to 8:02 +/- 0:54 min:s, P = 0.670).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16394955

It is concluded that six weeks of PS supplementation [200 mg/day] shows a statistically not significant tendency (p = 0.07) to improve perceived stress levels in golfers and significantly improves (p < 0.05) the number of good ball flights during tee-off which might result in improved golf scores.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2217563/

 

[EMPIREMIND]

So were is the best place to buy PA?

I found fearn for around 7.50 each at swanson, vitacost, and healthdesigns.com. the shipping is very affordable if not free. Around 8 bucks for 30 day supply of 1.2 grams PA daily.

 

[Danes]

This, also, perhaps this is something to consider (I originally posted it in another forum):

Perhaps part of why people are enjoying/having success with soy lecithin granules is not only due to the PA content, but also the PS content. People take up to 4 tbsp (or more) of the granules daily, frequently Fearn lecithin granules. Now, according to examine.com, there is roughly 10x the amount of Phosphatidylcholine compared to PS in soy lecithin, which would mean that, according to Fearn's label, 4 tbsp would contain ~690mg PS, right in line with the amount used in the study that noted an improvement in VO2 max, and more than what was used in the studies that noted cognitive and golf improvements (see studies below).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22017963


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16394955

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2217563/

Totaly agree and glad you mentioned PS.
Its a fantastic phospholipid. Not only does it work like PA for mTOR activating (going LPA route like PA) , but it has amazing effect on cortisol, amazing effect on brainhealth too.improvement in the symptoms of ADHD(Improved impulsiveness) and memory.
My GF has ADHD and she feel like a new person on PS

 

[Akagami]

Something interesting I found while looking for information

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4066292/

It is also important to note that although we have determined maximal mTOR activation in response to PA occurs at approximately 20 minutes, this is only one time point, and activation prior to, or following, 20 minutes could have been missed. Therefore, future research should investigate additional time points, as well as lower concentrations, as 10 μM appeared to be a saturating dose.

The PA group received 750 mg of soy-derived PA (Mediator®, Chemi Nutra, White Bear Lake, MN) per day, while the PLA group received 750 mg of rice flour, each delivered in 5 visually identical capsules. On RT days, participants consumed 450 mg of their respective supplement 30 minutes prior to RT and 300 mg immediately following RT with 24 g of hydrolyzed collagen protein powder from beef skin (Peptiplus XB agglomerated, Gelita AG, Eberbach, Germany) mixed with 500 ml water. The protein supplement was provided in order to ensure control for post-exercise meals between groups and hydrolyzed collagen was chosen as an incomplete protein source low in leucine (3.2 weight%). On non-RT days, participants consumed 450 mg of their respective supplement with breakfast and the remaining 300 mg with dinner.

1. Splitting the dosing may be advantageous. Or if you want to take it post vs pre, it doesn't seem to matter much.
2. Does not need to be dosed very far away form workout.

My own thoughts, I wonder if PA can be useful in meal consumption when leucine/protein content is low. When you haven't quite hit that magical mark of ~3g of leucine in your meal. Since I'm running ARA now and have left over fearns, I'm going to try adding about ~10-15g (one serving or less) to some of my breakfast (usually 4 eggs and some nuts and maybe a leafy high fiber low carb vegetable).

 

[Danes]

Something interesting I found while looking for information

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4066292/





1. Splitting the dosing may be advantageous. Or if you want to take it post vs pre, it doesn't seem to matter much.
2. Does not need to be dosed very far away form workout.

My own thoughts, I wonder if PA can be useful in meal consumption when leucine/protein content is low. When you haven't quite hit that magical mark of ~3g of leucine in your meal. Since I'm running ARA now and have left over fearns, I'm going to try adding about ~10-15g (one serving or less) to some of my breakfast (usually 4 eggs and some nuts and maybe a leafy high fiber low carb vegetable).

I will stick to suggestion from Dr wilson,jeffrey and hoffman and actually kissdadookie

-Supplemental PA is not working via tissue saturation in the way that ArA works. Thus it's likely working at the extracellular level so dosing it around workout time is likely how it is working.

-Taking it around meal time will likely not do much of anything, because it is the exercise stress which produces the enzymes that needs to convert the PA to LPA. These enzymes will not "leak" out to the extracellular level without the physical stressors (exercise).

-Thats why it should be taking prior training

 

[ryane87]

So I went to Wal-Dump to try and find it because they either carried Fear or the other one people frequently use (the name escapes me but I have it written down). The website says it is at the store but I go there and 4 workers have no idea what I'm talking about. Anyone know what department they keep it in?

 

[EMPIREMIND]

So I went to Wal-Dump to try and find it because they either carried Fear or the other one people frequently use (the name escapes me but I have it written down). The website says it is at the store but I go there and 4 workers have no idea what I'm talking about. Anyone know what department they keep it in?

Automotive lmao

Try the area they have vitamins or i guess food section. .

 

[ryane87]

Automotive lmao

Try the area they have vitamins or i guess food section. .

Already went there bud. haha Also to the baking aisle since they can be used in cooking. No dice.

 

[learningstill]

First post so i gotta admit this is an amazing forum, i wish i stumbled upon it years ago 90% of the posts are useful or questions that always gets answered!

Anyhow quick question is there any reason whatsoever i shouldnt take lecithen granula with m-stak as preworkout? And then have my prejym 10 minutes b4 starting

Just curious i havent read or seen anything related to this, and theres no harm in asking before starting with it

Oh and ill be using NOW lecithin granula can anyone enlighten me regarding how much pa there is in a serving/teaspoon

 

[Danes]

First post so i gotta admit this is an amazing forum, i wish i stumbled upon it years ago 90% of the posts are useful or questions that always gets answered!

Anyhow quick question is there any reason whatsoever i shouldnt take lecithen granula with m-stak as preworkout? And then have my prejym 10 minutes b4 starting

Just curious i havent read or seen anything related to this, and theres no harm in asking before starting with it

Oh and ill be using NOW lecithin granula can anyone enlighten me regarding how much pa there is in a serving/teaspoon

You can take it with your PWO. no problem at all.
Honestly, i dont know how much % of PA its in NOW but should NOT be under 7% .In my optima granules its 12.3 % PA.

 

[learningstill]

You can take it with your PWO. no problem at all.
Honestly, i dont know how much % of PA its in NOW but should NOT be under 7% .In my optima granules its 12.3 % PA.

Thank you dane you've been great at helping everyone throughout the whole thread

Ill do more research on NOW and will report back