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Oral DHEA supplementation improves recovery

BBB said:
I've shyed away from soy because of it's potential to increase estrogen. I think it's pretty well documented that a low T/E ratio in conjunction with high levels of E2 are the primary cause of prostate cancer in men. 5-DHEA is pretty far up the hormonal stream. It can convert to a whole host of hormones including E2. Althouhgh I have taken DHEA for years I would not take without some type AI. I beleive that Cholecalciferol can work as a mild AI. I even use an AI when taking DHEA variants. I'm not completely convinced that 7-DHEA cannot convert to E2.
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You def bring up some good points. I believe there have been a few studies on Soy that indicate it in fact does not raise E levels. Soy protein itself is a healthy source of protein with high amino levels of arginine and bcaas, plus it digests quickly. With that being said I myself prefer whey over soy protein but for those lactose intolerant soy might be an option. It does raise the question is the risk of soy elevating estrogen etc outweigh the benefits. For most people the answer is yes (risks outweigh benefits), as there are a plethora of other protein options.

Havent heard the DHEA arguement, 1/2 men experience prostate issues so anything we can do to decrease the risk of prostate issues is huge.
 
braskibra said:
You def bring up some good points. I believe there have been a few studies on Soy that indicate it in fact does not raise E levels. Soy protein itself is a healthy source of protein with high amino levels of arginine and bcaas, plus it digests quickly. With that being said I myself prefer whey over soy protein but for those lactose intolerant soy might be an option. It does raise the question is the risk of soy elevating estrogen etc outweigh the benefits. For most people the answer is yes (risks outweigh benefits), as there are a plethora of other protein options.
Havent heard the DHEA arguement, 1/2 men experience prostate issues so anything we can do to decrease the risk of prostate issues is huge.
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Good point about the cholecalciferol as well. Vitamin D3 increases dopamine levels and dopamine = antiprolactin hormone. I agree about the estrogenic effects of soy, so I take into account the amount of phosphatidylcholine (or whatever) and the % that it is standardized for. If something is isolated/standardized from a particular compound for mainly one consituent (ex. soy lecithin standardized to 50% p-choline), then the other percent that's not standardized may contain certain other consituents that bring unwelcome effects.
 
DR.D said:
You should put the link to your new website in your sig.

Yes, I see that NOW claims to use non-GMO Soy for their lecithin. I usually use that brand, and it seems to work well. I've also started trying to use their Sunflower Lecithin when I can find it. It's darker and more raw looking than Soy, and usually a cap or two is busted in the bottle (the softgel coating is more brittle at the seam) but it's PC content appears to be about 17% higher than Soy.



It's good for just about everything, huh? At least the things that concern fellas like us. I once observed a guy with long-standing prostate cancer start using it daily stacked with Cholecalciferol, and 6 months later he no longer had cancer. Make of it what you may, but needless to say his doctor was dumbfounded.



Sounds like a potent stack indeed! I still haven't got around to trying Pramiracetam. How does it compare to others?
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Dr. D., there are several great points that you bring up that could spawn numerous threads by themselves and end up leading us down a rabit hole that would bring about some 'existential' discussion. Cancer is 'cureable' by all outward definitions. Many individuals, such as myself at one point in time being younger and naive, would think, "wouldn't it be great if we keep pumping money into these universities that have a Western-philosophical methodology, and maybe one day there will be a magic cancer vaccine?" I am going to state my personal opinion in conclusion to my views on Western medicine. There is no $money$ in curing a disease. The American Psychiatric Association has a quantum methodology. They even change their name with the times since being around for over a century and a half, beginning as the American Association of Superintendants for the Mentally Insane. They create a disease/disorder and then create a treatment for that disorder. For example, Paxil was being tested for FDA trials before the APA even created 'social anxiety disorder', for which Paxil was approved to 'treat'. The treatment eventually stops working, such as what they call a 'poop out' when antidepressants no longer mask the depression. A new medication is created or an old one is revived and put through another patent process to increase the cost of non-generic medication (ex. Abilify).

As for nootropics in general, before I give my experience with pramiracetam, I want to add somethings. Before administering a nootropic and judging it's effects, you know as much or more than anyone Dr. D., the importance of due diligence on the source of the nootropic and having a dietary and supplemental foundation that is in place for the nootropic to deliver the beneficial results. Checking the CoA and making sure the dates and batch number match up with the origin and doing homework on the 3rd party analytical company is tantamount. I taste the powder with a fingertip to tongue, much like Pablo Escobar would with cocaine. For example, if a tiny dab of noopept doesn't burn my gums, it's not noopept.

As nootropics are of course not treatments or cures for dietary insufficiency, they will most likely elicit the negative side effects (brain fog, anxiety, etc). If one is trying to justify an attack dose of 900mg of pramiracetam, they are missing the boat entirely; They're not even on the docks. Pramiracetam with my brain chemistry gives a sense of serenity, as well as enhanced clarity of thought and some creativity. Some people report that pramiracetam 'numbs emotions'. I do not find this the case in my situation. Combined with noopept, the combination gives a 'peppier' thought process without the need to hesitate out of confusion or fear. I have a phobia of snakes. I have had night terrors of being dropped in a snake pit like Indiana Jones and my skin would crawl as they surrounded me. A few weeks ago I was holding an albino python and a boa, my pulse did not raise nor spike. As with any racetam, it enhances the effects of other racetams and I find that the required dose to elicit such effects need be lowered accordingly. I use the smallest dose possible and will take both on an empty stomach with the lecithin and now I am going to add a tablespoon of coconut oil a few minutes prior to get some fats in the GI tract and MCTs in the bloodstream (I take it anyways).
 
Cancer is like a snowball rolling down a hill. It increases in size and gains momentum with time. Therefore the earlier you catch it the better your chances of curing it. There is not a lot of information on cancer prevention. Just basically eat right and exercise but there are naturally occurring substances that that can help prevent it from occurring. One of the best is B17. It is heavily used for both prevention and treatment in most countries outside the US. My family and I have taken it for years. Read the book "A World Without Cancer". The drug companies are not interested in preventing cancer they make their money by treating it. D3, IC3, a good AI for hormonal cancers in both men and women and a whole host of antioxidants will also help.
 
So we're turning this into anti-evidence based medicine again? What do you mean there's no money in curing a disease? The first company to make a cure for cancer will be rich beyond their wildest dreams. Unless, of course, it's all one big conspiracy and every single drug company has agreed to withhold the release of a cancer cure.

That antidepressants don't always work is a testament to the plasticity of the brain, not the inability (or lack of desire) of pharmaceutical companies to make an effective drug. You can also thank Western medicine for the fact that you're still alive. But hey, vaccines prevent diseases, so that's probably a hoax too
 
Anyway, these discussions are rather worthless. Naturopaths won't change their opinions, just as I won't change mine. So carry on!
 
did anyone see the AM newsletter today

There was a study done on mice who were genetically altered to develop prostate CA. Half were fed with a diet of soy and tomatos and half were not, the group that were fed the soy and tomato diet were much less likely to develop prostate ca, all the mice in the control group did

thought it was interesting considering our topic of soy and prostate ca
 
mr.cooper69 said:
So we're turning this into anti-evidence based medicine again? What do you mean there's no money in curing a disease? The first company to make a cure for cancer will be rich beyond their wildest dreams. Unless, of course, it's all one big conspiracy and every single drug company has agreed to withhold the release of a cancer cure.

That antidepressants don't always work is a testament to the plasticity of the brain, not the inability (or lack of desire) of pharmaceutical companies to make an effective drug. You can also thank Western medicine for the fact that you're still alive. But hey, vaccines prevent diseases, so that's probably a hoax too
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im all for western med but arguing over this stuff is pointless haha
 
braskibra said:
im all for western med but arguing over this stuff is pointless haha
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Agreed. I just get a little mad sometimes because I know people who have dedicated their lives to solving many of these issues. Sure, every business including healthcare has cheats, but I think it's extremely unfair how people make these unfounded and demeaning claims about western medicine. Imagine if I went around saying that police officers are murderers based on a few bad apples. Or that teachers purposely act in the worst interest of the student based on a few experiences with teachers who were unfair to me. I don't think people in those professions would be too happy to see my say that either
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Agreed. I just get a little mad sometimes because I know people who have dedicated their lives to solving many of these issues. Sure, every business including healthcare has cheats, but I think it's extremely unfair how people make these unfounded and demeaning claims about western medicine. Imagine if I went around saying that police officers are murderers based on a few bad apples. Or that teachers purposely act in the worst interest of the student based on a few experiences with teachers who were unfair to me. I don't think people in those professions would be too happy to see my say that either
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I understand why u get upset, but lifes too short to let things like that bother you ya know. Everyone has an opinion and they re entitled to that whether you agree or disagree. No point in letting things get to you. I respect your opinion and I respect force of greens, both of you are very intelligent individuals who have different views on one subject, when in the grand scheme of things im sure you two probably have alot more in common than differences
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Agreed. I just get a little mad sometimes because I know people who have dedicated their lives to solving many of these issues. Sure, every business including healthcare has cheats, but I think it's extremely unfair how people make these unfounded and demeaning claims about western medicine. Imagine if I went around saying that police officers are murderers based on a few bad apples. Or that teachers purposely act in the worst interest of the student based on a few experiences with teachers who were unfair to me. I don't think people in those professions would be too happy to see my say that either
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Mr. Cooper, I have no interest in arguing with you nor debating with you on this. My demeanor is calm, my attitude and thoughts are progressive and I have an open mind. You stated that you will not change your way of thinking, therefore the inability or the lack of will/desire to be open to change suggests a narrow-minded thought process. Congratulations to your friends who dedicate themselves to solving the issues Mr. Cooper. My statement was not an attack on you, the good doctors out there who respect the medicine they prescribe and don't abuse the patients, or your friends. My statements do not reflect those of Andro Factory or it's affiliates. Please drop the subject and move on. :D
 
mr.cooper69 said:
So we're turning this into anti-evidence based medicine again? What do you mean there's no money in curing a disease? The first company to make a cure for cancer will be rich beyond their wildest dreams. Unless, of course, it's all one big conspiracy and every single drug company has agreed to withhold the release of a cancer cure.

That antidepressants don't always work is a testament to the plasticity of the brain, not the inability (or lack of desire) of pharmaceutical companies to make an effective drug. You can also thank Western medicine for the fact that you're still alive. But hey, vaccines prevent diseases, so that's probably a hoax too
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If PES discovered a pill to cure cancer what do you think would happen to the economy world wide? PES might be rich but the economy would be in a huge mess. Controlling any disease is where the big money is at. You're on medication the rest of your life.
 
BBB said:
If PES discovered a pill to cure cancer what do you think would happen to the economy world wide? PES might be rich but the economy would be in a huge mess. Controlling any disease is where the big money is at. You're on medication the rest of your life.
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Exactly. Why give someone a 'magic cancer cure', when you can lock them into chemotherapy for several increments of 4 years at a pop. I'd rather die healthy at 60 than to live to 75+, spending time debilitated in a hospital getting chemotherapy as the cost exceeds what my insurance will pay (if I have it) while all my assets go into collections to make up for the bill.
 
Force of Green said:
Exactly. Why give someone a 'magic cancer cure', when you can lock them into chemotherapy for several increments of 4 years at a pop. I'd rather die healthy at 60 than to live to 75+, spending time debilitated in a hospital getting chemotherapy as the cost exceeds what my insurance will pay (if I have it) while all my assets go into collections to make up for the bill.
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Unfortunately cancer treatment is a huge industry. I read an article by a doctor several years ago stating that we have to quickly find a cure for AIDS before it's treatment became an industry of it's own.
 
BBB said:
Unfortunately cancer treatment is a huge industry. I read an article by a doctor several years ago stating that we have to quickly find a cure for AIDS before it's treatment became an industry of it's own.
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Good point, BBB. More disease = more untapped markets.
 
I think of it as the exact opposite. You have millions of people with all these comorbidities such as diabetes, obesity, cancer, parkinsons. These diseases limit work capabilities, spending, productivity and our taxes pay for their bills which hinders economic growth. Not to mention the vast differences between CA types, its highly doubtful one drug etc will cure all types or even multiple types. Medical patents last I think 5 years, drug companies only really make big money in those years then generics come out and profits are so so. There is plenty of so called fish in the sea as far as chronic illnesses, simply curing one isn't going to threaten insurance companies. Pharm companies are the ones making the bank anyways,not most insurance companies ( pending your plan profit v non profit).
 
braskibra said:
I think of it as the exact opposite. You have millions of people with all these comorbidities such as diabetes, obesity, cancer, parkinsons. These diseases limit work capabilities, spending, productivity and our taxes pay for their bills which hinders economic growth. Not to mention the vast differences between CA types, its highly doubtful one drug etc will cure all types or even multiple types. Medical patents last I think 5 years, drug companies only really make big money in those years then generics come out and profits are so so. There is plenty of so called fish in the sea as far as chronic illnesses, simply curing one isn't going to threaten insurance companies. Pharm companies are the ones making the bank anyways,not most insurance companies ( pending your plan profit v non profit).
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braskibra, I'm with you in it that I see more logic in your way. Patents can be extended by simply marketing something for a different purpose, such in the case of buproprion. People who smoked cigarettes and took the atypical antidepressant 'Wellbutrin' were likely to at least cut down on cigarettes, if not quit entirely. They'd be dependant on the med, but oh well. Revive buproprion as a treatment for smokers and call it Zyban, extend the patent. Slightly modifying the molecule and marketing the drug for the same purpose is another way, as with the old drug 'Provigil' and the new drug 'Nuvigil'.
 
Yeah man its always good to have discussion even if opinions shud differ, it stimulates food for thought

I guess the way I see it:
Insurance companies: want people healthy, more people healthy means they make more simple as that. They don't want chronic diseases around as they are the ones flipping the bill for it. They make their money on people like us, healthy and don't use our insurance for much.

Pharm companies: Want whatever product their vested in to be used. I think this is where your point earlier stated applies, I believe in a free market where competition creates the drives for cures. If one pharm comp can produce say a cure for breast ca, while simultaneously decreasing a ***** comapinies profits then there's no doubt in my mind the product would be brought to light.
 
Did you know that breast cancer rates can be cut by as much as 77% by supplemental vitamin D3 (Dr. Mercola <[email protected]>)? I3C can help even further by controlling E2. And then there is supplemental iodine. People who have large amouts of iodine in their diets don't get breast cancer. Is anyone other than the supplement industry extoling the virtues of vitaman supplementation? We need to keep this industry free of government regulations as much as possible. Unfortunately unscrupulous suppliers are going to ruin it for all of us.
 
Yes vitamin D is an interesting topic in prevention of ca, new evidence is promising and hopefully clinical trials will be initiated soon. Many types of ca rates can be reduced by simply exercising. I agree the FDA bans so many items that are just unnecessary, 6 oxo and atd come to mind. Unfortunately I think the oversight of our industry is only going to get worse.
 
Enough of the quackery.

Return the thread back to the original discussion or it will be closed. This forum is for scientific evidence based discussions. If you choose to talk about psudeoscience and have anti-pharma/government rants then please take it the a different forum.
 
JudoJosh said:
Enough of the quackery.

Return the thread back to the original discussion or it will be closed. This forum is for scientific evidence based discussions. If you choose to talk about psudeoscience and have anti-pharma/government rants then please take it the a different forum.
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This started out as a really good thread but has now turned into something entirely different.
 
Interesting article from a medical news site on DHEA and vitamin D:
[h=2]Taking a DHEA supplement combined with vitamin D and calcium can significantly improve spinal bone density in older women, according to a new study from a Invalid Link Removed scientist and his colleagues at Washington University.[/h]"The results of our study are very promising. Similar studies have demonstrated much smaller benefits for bone than we found. However, and vitamin D[/URL] deficiencies, which are present in half of older adults, may have prevented DHEA from improving bone density in the earlier studies," said Edward Weiss, Ph.D., associate professor of nutrition and dietetics at Saint Louis University's Doisy College of Health Sciences and lead author of the study.
"In our study, we supplemented all participants with calcium and vitamin D to ensure that deficiencies were not present. This may explain why our study showed more favorable effects on bone density."
DHEA (dehydroepiandrosterone), a naturally occurring steroid hormone[/URL] produced in theadrenal gland, gonads and brain, decreases with age. According to Weiss, low DHEA concentration has been associated with low bone density, which lead researchers to question whether restoring DHEA levels could improve or preserve bone health.http://www.news-medical.net/health/What-Does-the-Adrenal-Gland-Do.aspx
The two-year study divided men and women, ages 65 to 75 years old, into two groups. The first group received the DHEA supplement, vitamin D and calcium for two years. The control group received a placebo, vitamin D and calcium for the first year and then received the DHEA supplement the second year in place of the placebo.
The effects of the treatment differed for men and women. After the first year, women in the test group experienced an approximate 2 percent increase in bone density, while women in the control group did not see an increase. After the second year when both groups took the DHEA supplement, women in the test group experienced an additional 2 percent increase for a total of approximately 4 percent, while women who switched from placebo to DHEA also experienced an approximate 2 percent increase.
The same treatment, however, did not offer similar benefits for older men. Instead, men in both the test and control groups experienced a 1 to 2 percent increase in spinal bone density. According to researchers, the results suggest that vitamin D and calcium supplements, which were give to both groups, could be responsible for the increase in bone density.
The results of the study are promising for older women. According to Weiss, patients who achieve similar increases of 2 to 4 percent in spinal bone density with the help of medication experience a 30 to 50 percent reduction in risk of spine fractures.
Further, researchers say that the increase in spinal bone density experienced by women in the test group who took DHEA for two years, is at least as effective as other current therapies including estrogen and bisphosphonates, a class of prescription drugs that increases bone density.
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http://www.news-medical.net/health/What-Does-the-Adrenal-Gland-Do.aspx
 
Continued...
However, like other therapies, the benefits of DHEA supplements were limited to spinal bone density. Neither men nor women experienced an improvement in hip bone density. Weiss says the hip may respond more slowly to bone-enhancing therapies than the spine, thus requiring more time to see a beneficial effect. More research is needed though."In addition to its beneficial effects on bone, DHEA replacement may have other benefits including improvements in risk factors for Invalid Link Removed and heart disease, improvements in immune function, and improvements in psychological health," Weiss said.
While the research findings are promising, Weiss says that people should consult with their doctor before taking DHEA, which is an over-the-counter dietary supplement.
"Although DHEA is generally considered safe for consumption at 50 mg per day, it increases Invalid Link Removed and Invalid Link Removed levels which in turn could increase Invalid Link Removed risk," Weiss explained. "Therefore, DHEA supplementation should be avoided in men and women who have had cancer or who have a strong family history of cancer until further research can establish whether or not it is safe for these individuals."
The study was funded with grants from the NIH, NIH General Clinical Research Center and NIH Clinical Nutrition Research Unit. Findings were published in the May 2009 issue of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.
Study coauthors include Krupa Shah, Luigi Fontana, Charles P. Lambert, John O. Holloszy and Dennis Villareal.
Invalid Link Removed
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DHEA supplementation seems to have it's greatest benefits for people over 50. LEF has a lot of good information DHEA supplementation and benefits.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
... What do you mean there's no money in curing a disease? The first company to make a cure for cancer will be rich beyond their wildest dreams. ...
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Reminds me of a old movie scene from an 80s flick, I think it was James Earl Jones in the movie Coming to America. He was a rich African businessman at a party talking with some other rich US businessmen. One of these men had done some business with his enterprise, and didn't realize until they'd started talking. Anyway, James said something to the effect that 'My company discovered a cure for the common cold, and your company paid me for it.' Then the other guy says 'Ohh, we paid you for the cure?' And James says 'No. You paid me to keep my mouth shut!' It was just a stupid movie, but I never forgot that scene or the look on the other guy's face, lol.

Of course there is big money in cures, Cooper, and many pharma companies are crazy rich. Did they make all their money pushing pills? I don't know, I don't sit on their board, but perhaps there is more money to be had sitting on that cure rather than marketing it? I have a passion for medicinal chemistry and pharmacology just like you, but perhaps we should be defending that, and not be so naive or presumptuous to think we can reason like billion dollar businessmen reason. It doesn't take a mind for conspiracy to recognize that big companies have different motivations than do guys like most of us, know what I mean?
 
DR.D said:
Reminds me of a old movie scene from an 80s flick, I think it was James Earl Jones in the movie Coming to America. He was a rich African businessman at a party talking with some other rich US businessmen. One of these men had done some business with his enterprise, and didn't realize until they'd started talking. Anyway, James said something to the effect that 'My company discovered a cure for the common cold, and your company paid me for it.' Then the other guy says 'Ohh, we paid you for the cure?' And James says 'No. You paid me to keep my mouth shut!' It was just a stupid movie, but I never forgot that scene or the look on the other guy's face, lol.

Of course there is big money in cures, Cooper, and many pharma companies are crazy rich. Did they make all their money pushing pills? I don't know, I don't sit on their board, but perhaps there is more money to be had sitting on that cure rather than marketing it? I have a passion for medicinal chemistry and pharmacology just like you, but perhaps we should be defending that, and not be so naive or presumptuous to think we can reason like billion dollar businessmen reason. It doesn't take a mind for conspiracy to recognize that big companies have different motivations than do guys like most of us, know what I mean?
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That's a very interesting exchange from that movie, Dr. D. While I am not outright saying something totally radical to the effect that pharma is trying to poison us, but I can see the business model behind most companies and it is too disgusting for most to even taste. Create a disease/disorder (or in the American Psychiatric Association's case, just make **** up and call it the DSM), patent a 'treatment', offer incentives to salesmen (many doctors, not all), give samples to get the customer (patient) dependent or addicted, and then you are chemically, psycologically, physiologically, neurologically, etc. almost guaranteed a customer for life.
 
That must be why there exist no cure for any disease and why we have never virtually eradicated any disease. There is just too much money to keeo peoole sick. Yup that makes perfect sense... :/
 
JudoJosh said:
That must be why there exist no cure for any disease and why we have never virtually eradicated any disease. There is just too much money to keeo peoole sick. Yup that makes perfect sense... :/
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JudoJosh, my apologies for perpetuating the topic of government & politics. Look, I empathize with your point of view and I'm not grabbing and clinging to my statements as a stronghold, per se. I respect your opinions and statements and whether or not you respect mine, that's fine. I just see a different schematic as the primary purpose for what drives pharmaceutical corporations. I see it as a business to make money and even if that means at the expense of the patient's health.
 
The car industry keeps coming out with more and more expensive cars that contain craper and craper parts.

The electronics industry, clothing industry, etc all have us addicted to getting the next new model/ fashion that we spend every penny we have to get it even if that means going in debt. By doing so we have enslaved millions of people in third world countries.

Or food industry keeps producing more and more unhealthy foods that are designed to be addicting. Making us lazier, fatter, and stupider. Not to mention companies are coming out stating they don't have to put all the ingredients on there labels now.

Do I have to mention the banking industry, or government corruption?

But when it comes to the pharmaceutical industry I'm supposed to believe they are a bunch of saints who have our best interests out for us.

Sorry if this sounds a little conspiracy, but hey when it comes down to it we all have an underlying agenda with everything we do.

I wish people like cooper the best of luck, someone who actually takes the time to learn as much about there profession as possible, and has people's well being in mind at all times. Even to give out free advice on AM.

Back to topic, I have taken dhea through out the years and loved it, to me I actually feel a little more pep with it, and have noticed the faster recover that I have read has been noticed in some studies.
 
Back to DHEA, is it all DHEA supplements that would help with recovery or is it only "fancy" DHEA supplements from Androfactory that work?
No disrespect to Androfactory, I use them also, just wanted to know if I can get benefits from cheap brands also?
 
so is dhea good or not? Im 35 and have never been able to get a definite answer. Ive tried it but never stayed on for fear of sides so I have some kicking around. Should I give it a go? Im on erase pro right now anyway
 
fightnews said:
so is dhea good or not? Im 35 and have never been able to get a definite answer. Ive tried it but never stayed on for fear of sides so I have some kicking around. Should I give it a go? Im on erase pro right now anyway
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One thing at time. Finish all the other crap your spending thousands of dollars on first.
 
T-Bone said:
One thing at time. Finish all the other crap your spending thousands of dollars on first.
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Hey man dont hate, appreciate....... Besides sns got a nice chunk of change out of that. Plus I already have the dhea so haaaa


So yeah now that im on all these supps I should probably at least lift a weight huh?
 
Im not on that much I only take
Creatine
Beta alanine
metabolic drive
erase pro
forskolin
anabeta
fish oil
Plazma
Mag10
Phospatitic acid
Arachadonic acid
Probiotics
melatonin
Magnesium
phenhylracetam
salbutiamine
d aspartic acid
recompadrol
APE
folic acid
Celexa
TMG
Citrulline
Agamatine
L-Leucine
and maybe dhea
 
fightnews said:
Im not on that much I only take
Creatine
Beta alanine
metabolic drive
erase pro
forskolin
anabeta
fish oil
Plazma
Mag10
Phospatitic acid
Arachadonic acid
Probiotics
melatonin
Magnesium
phenhylracetam
salbutiamine
d aspartic acid
recompadrol
APE
folic acid
Celexa
TMG
Citrulline
Agamatine
L-Leucine
and maybe dhea
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You take more pills than most peoples grandmother!
 
T-Bone said:
You take more pills than most peoples grandmother!
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yeah but i be making da gainz braaaa, plus at least i take all good proven stuff. nothing useless on the list besides maybe daa which i hardly take
 
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I was thinking I need to step my supplement game up, What else should I take?
 
fightnews said:
Im not on that much I only take
Creatine
Beta alanine
metabolic drive
erase pro
forskolin
anabeta
fish oil
Plazma
Mag10
Phospatitic acid
Arachadonic acid
Probiotics
melatonin
Magnesium
phenhylracetam
salbutiamine
d aspartic acid
recompadrol
APE
folic acid
Celexa
TMG
Citrulline
Agamatine
L-Leucine
and maybe dhea
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Seriously, you take all of that? Or are you joking?. I don't know because there are some really crazy type people on here lately.
 
T-Bone said:
Seriously, you take all of that? Or are you joking?. I don't know because there are some really crazy type people on here lately.
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No I'm just joking I actually don't take fish oil
 
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