Night sweats on TRT?

[bell1986]

I've been on TRT for around 8 years now (I'm 38).

It took me a LONG time to actually get a good dose. I played with so many different dosing schedules and done a diary on them. I eventually found out that I feel best on 120mg test e. 60mg Sunday/Thursday. I've also had to add in 50mg of primobolan. This is only to keep my estrogen in check. I also use DIM + Calcium D Glucarate. This keeps my test around 1000-1200 and my estrogen sits around 40. I feel my best at these numbers. I can slowly grow on this dose and my libido/mental health is perfect. This honestly took years to dial in.

Recently I fancied putting some extra mass on. I've tried loads of natural muscle builders attached to my TRT and I seen no results. I thought. Let's bump my dose for 6 weeks and raise calories (Currently on 3500 and looking to raise to 4000) and training 4x a week. Was just hoping to add a couple extra pounds of mass. I started slow and raised my Test to 200mg and my primo to 80mg. 100mg Sun/Thurs. Day to day I feel great on this dose but the night sweats have been dreadful. I'm soaking my bed sheets.

What's causing this? I done some bloodwork and everything is perfect. Test levels are high. 2000+ and estrogen is around 40. I feel great but my partner is freaking out about these night sweats. Is this just from having abnormally high test levels?

The plan was to bump the test to 400mg and primo to 150mg. Run this for 6 weeks and drop back to trt.

AAre these night sweats harmless? Anything that can be done to mitigate them?

Years ago I could blast 500mg test and feel fine. I don't suffer any side effects on test + Primo. Skin is perfect and mood is great. Just these sweats. Seems like it has only started as I've aged.

Anyone else get night sweats from test?

Thanks.

 

[jim2509]

Only a couple of things come to mind.

1. You have an infection of some sort.
2. Your Primo isn't Primo.
3. Your E2 is now too low.

I've only been on trt for a couple of years and don't suffer sweats.

 

[jaeger01]

Don't think of it as being on TRT - you're cycling now, and supraphysiological androgen levels can absolutely increase body temperature at night high enough to cause night sweats. Especially cause you're cruising with primo. Night sweats are also a common sign of very low cortisol relative to androgens or low estrogen at night. Check out what Jim mentioned above but these kinds of things shouldn't surprise you that much on cycle.

 

[BillD]

Don't think of it as being on TRT - you're cycling now, and supraphysiological androgen levels can absolutely increase body temperature at night high enough to cause night sweats. Especially cause you're cruising with primo. Night sweats are also a common sign of very low cortisol or estrogen at night. Check out what Jim mentioned above but these kinds of things shouldn't surprise you that much on cycle.

That’s interesting the low cortisol part….ive been using Supress-C before bed and been waking up at 230am absolutely drenched.

 

[Joshlm69]

This makes sense…. I’ve been taking Tongat Ali pre bed for 2 days now, which is a cortisol reducer, both nights drenched in sweat

 

[jaeger01]

That’s interesting the low cortisol part….ive been using Supress-C before bed and been waking up at 230am absolutely drenched.

Also happens to me if I use too much Invictus (also bAET), I get terrible chills too. For some reason NyQuil works at that point really well.

My no doubt imperfect understanding: Cortisol is a primary regulator of body temperature which is the most important circadian rhythm cue for sleep/wake time. Cortisol falls in the evening for lower temp before bed and gradually rises around 3-5am to warm us up. People with abnormally high baseline cortisol (incl trauma survivors and other stress disorders) will hit the waking threshold early and not be able to fall back asleep; people with abnormally low baseline cortisol will wake up in sweats (if excess androgens are jacking up their metabolic rate/body temp and simultaneously suppressing cortisol) or chills (if metabolism is otherwise normal but cortisol is so low that body temp dips under healthy nighttime levels). If that seems contradictory, think about how night sweats and night chills are both common when you have a fever. It's a sensitive system.

If there's any other guys who can't fall back asleep after 3-5am due to excess chronic stress, try immediately taking some ksm-66 ashwagandha and/or gaba and l-theanine and having a little snack (I like Costco granola bites) and getting back in bed in 30-60 mins. Low blood sugar also creates a cortisol response which I'm particularly prone to while cutting because I don't have as big dinners.

 

[BillD]

Also happens to me if I use too much Invictus (also bAET), I get terrible chills too. For some reason NyQuil works at that point really well

Damn glad I came across this post cause I never would have even thought of it. Always thought low cortisol is what you want during night.

 

[jaeger01]

Damn glad I came across this post cause I never would have even thought of it. Always thought low cortisol is what you want during night.

Low is great, too low is terrible!! Just like any other hormone, there's a healthy range of normal fluctuations.

 

[Resolve10]

Damn glad I came across this post cause I never would have even thought of it. Always thought low cortisol is what you want during night.

It is, relatively. It’ll reach its lowest during sleep then it’s highest when you wake up.

These are good things though if in the right range. We want cortisol it does lots of good stuff, it’s when it is chronically high or too low that causes issues. So using things that may help it not be too high before bed does make sense in certain situations for certain peoples use cases though, you weren’t wrong in that line of thinking.

Low is great, too low is terrible!! Just like any other hormone, there's a healthy range of normal fluctuations.

Ya this. The above outline you did makes sense too, but I’d also just caution others not to try to get too focused on a singular cause for any issues like this. It’ll probably be multifaceted and for most people more complicated than just focusing on cortisol for example (although it may help for trying to still find proper use cases of how to approach helping the issue).

 

[BillD]

It is, relatively. It’ll reach its lowest during sleep then it’s highest when you wake up.

These are good things though if in the right range. We want cortisol it does lots of good stuff, it’s when it is chronically high or too low that causes issues. So using things that may help it not be too high before bed does make sense in certain situations for certain peoples use cases though, you weren’t wrong in that line of thinking.



Ya this. The above outline you did makes sense too, but I’d also just caution others not to try to get too focused on a singular cause for any issues like this. It’ll probably be multifaceted and for most people more complicated than just focusing on cortisol for example (although it may help for trying to still find proper use cases of how to approach helping the issue).

Guess I gotta lower dose. I was doing 2ml twice a day

 

[jaeger01]

Ya this. The above outline you did makes sense too, but I’d also just caution others not to try to get too focused on a singular cause for any issues like this. It’ll probably be multifaceted and for most people more complicated than just focusing on cortisol for example (although it may help for trying to still find proper use cases of how to approach helping the issue).

Definitely. This kind of thinking can be useful when conceptualizing side effects of specific substances or supplements when there seems to be a clear causal link, but a good rule of thumb is something like "assume everything is 10x more complicated than we even know, and use minimal necessary interventions"

 

[Hyde]

Blasting gear raises body temp, especially in response to meals, especially with carbohydrates present. I realize you are blasting to grow, so more food is a necessity, but try not eating carbs for your last meal, or move that meal up further from bed time.

Also, if that isn’t ideal for you or isn’t cutting it, make sure you are being sensible with your sleep setup. If you are waking up drenched but still wearing clothes/pajamas, or using blankets, or don’t have 1-2 fans on you…you’re not doing much to help the situation.

 

[Renew1]

Guess I gotta lower dose. I was doing 2ml twice a day

That's a good bit ...

 

[BillD]

That's a good bit ...

It’s what the bottle says. What would you recommend?

 

[Renew1]

It’s what the bottle says. What would you recommend?

I apologize... That was pretty vague....

I should've said, for myself, using AET-50 Daily (nightly), 2mls is a good bit.
I personally use 1ml right now (before bed).
For myself .... bAET (in particular) should be dialed in to your own preferences/needs.
Although this also applies to other compounds, as well.

 

[jaeger01]

It’s what the bottle says. What would you recommend?

I use Invictus at 1-2mL 2x daily, with breaks every couple months. I think Apex's AET50 is a little less concentrated but still works out the same price wise with their BOGOs. As Renew said it comes down to personal preference and trial and error

 

[BillD]

I apologize... That was pretty vague....

I should've said, for myself, using AET-50 Daily (nightly), 2mls is a good bit.
I personally use 1ml right now (before bed).
For myself .... bAET (in particular) should be dialed in to your own preferences/needs.
Although this also applies to other compounds, as well.

Supress c is 25mg per ml so I was doing 50mg twice a day. I’ll have to cut the second dose down because it was getting brutal waking up at exactly 230 soaked.

 

[Renew1]

Supress c is 25mg per ml so I was doing 50mg twice a day. I’ll have to cut the second dose down because it was getting brutal waking up at exactly 230 soaked.

I occasionally take a few days off, to "reset", and make sure I'm still using the dosage that I feel is best for me, at that time.

 

[bell1986]

Only a couple of things come to mind.

1. You have an infection of some sort.
2. Your Primo isn't Primo.
3. Your E2 is now too low.

I've only been on trt for a couple of years and don't suffer sweats.

I've checked all these markers. My e2 sits around 40. This is ideal for me.

The primo is from a reputable company which has been tested.

I also do regular bloodwork and my hs-crp is almost at 0. Usually if an infection is lingering it would show on this marker.

I think it's a cortisol issue? Alot of the guys here are 100% correct. The sweats only start at around 3-5am. If I wake at 2am I have no sweats. I usually wake around 5am everyday and I'm drenched by then. Gonna dig into this theory

Also happens to me if I use too much Invictus (also bAET), I get terrible chills too. For some reason NyQuil works at that point really well.

My no doubt imperfect understanding: Cortisol is a primary regulator of body temperature which is the most important circadian rhythm cue for sleep/wake time. Cortisol falls in the evening for lower temp before bed and gradually rises around 3-5am to warm us up. People with abnormally high baseline cortisol (incl trauma survivors and other stress disorders) will hit the waking threshold early and not be able to fall back asleep; people with abnormally low baseline cortisol will wake up in sweats (if excess androgens are jacking up their metabolic rate/body temp and simultaneously suppressing cortisol) or chills (if metabolism is otherwise normal but cortisol is so low that body temp dips under healthy nighttime levels). If that seems contradictory, think about how night sweats and night chills are both common when you have a fever. It's a sensitive system.

If there's any other guys who can't fall back asleep after 3-5am due to excess chronic stress, try immediately taking some ksm-66 ashwagandha and/or gaba and l-theanine and having a little snack (I like Costco granola bites) and getting back in bed in 30-60 mins. Low blood sugar also creates a cortisol response which I'm particularly prone to while cutting because I don't have as big dinners.

This sounds 100% right.

I've noticed that if I wake around 1-2am (For the toilet) I don't have the sweats. I notice that they seem to start around 3-5am like you stated. This exact problem happened lastnight. I woke up and no sweats. I then went back to sleep at woke at 5.30am and my bed is soaked in sweat.

Sounds like it's a cortisol issue then?

How could I fix this? I can't use ashwaghanda. I get the anhedonia issue that ashwaghanda seems to give select people. I feel very numb and robotic if I supplement it. Do you know what else I could try to fix this issue? Would rhodiola help?

I suspect this low morning cortisol is also the reason why I feel very lethargic in the morning? I've noticed that I feel very tired when I wake. I have no issues sleeping.

I will need to start researching this. Is it the androgens causing the low cortisol or could it be something else? I do supplement DHEA. I've read that this can also impact cortisol levels through the adrenal glands?

Thanks for giving all this info. When I read your reply it seemed 100% correct. Everything you mentioned was exactly what's happening with me.

Thanks

 

[bell1986]

Blasting gear raises body temp, especially in response to meals, especially with carbohydrates present. I realize you are blasting to grow, so more food is a necessity, but try not eating carbs for your last meal, or move that meal up further from bed time.

Also, if that isn’t ideal for you or isn’t cutting it, make sure you are being sensible with your sleep setup. If you are waking up drenched but still wearing clothes/pajamas, or using blankets, or don’t have 1-2 fans on you…you’re not doing much to help the situation.

I do eat carbs later on in the day. I can easily cut these out and move them to my earlier meals. I will give this a try.

I've got a fan directly at my face lol. I live in Scotland so it's freezing here so switching a fan on isn't a nice feel lol. I do use it though. I also don't sleep with clothes on. I've even switched to much lighter sheets. Honestly I'm trying all of these techniques.

I woke again this morning and the exact same. Bed drenched. My partner sleeps separate from me thankfully. We work weird job shifts and need to sleep separately so we can get proper amounts of sleep.

I'm going to dig into the cortisol issue and see what I can find. It sounds like this is the issue.

 

[bell1986]

Also happens to me if I use too much Invictus (also bAET), I get terrible chills too. For some reason NyQuil works at that point really well.

My no doubt imperfect understanding: Cortisol is a primary regulator of body temperature which is the most important circadian rhythm cue for sleep/wake time. Cortisol falls in the evening for lower temp before bed and gradually rises around 3-5am to warm us up. People with abnormally high baseline cortisol (incl trauma survivors and other stress disorders) will hit the waking threshold early and not be able to fall back asleep; people with abnormally low baseline cortisol will wake up in sweats (if excess androgens are jacking up their metabolic rate/body temp and simultaneously suppressing cortisol) or chills (if metabolism is otherwise normal but cortisol is so low that body temp dips under healthy nighttime levels). If that seems contradictory, think about how night sweats and night chills are both common when you have a fever. It's a sensitive system.

If there's any other guys who can't fall back asleep after 3-5am due to excess chronic stress, try immediately taking some ksm-66 ashwagandha and/or gaba and l-theanine and having a little snack (I like Costco granola bites) and getting back in bed in 30-60 mins. Low blood sugar also creates a cortisol response which I'm particularly prone to while cutting because I don't have as big dinners.

Meant to ask. You seem knowledgeable with all of this.

Would creatine have any impact on cortisol?

I was recently supplementing 3g of creatine and hcl. My night sweats were horrendous on creatine. It was also destroying my sleep.

I have a sleep tracker I wear every night. When I'm on creatine my deep sleep is like 20 minutes. Once I stop supplementing creatine and it clears my system my deep sleep jumps up to 1h 20+. I've experimented with this now 3 times and it's like clockwork.

Just wondered if creatine was affecting my cortisol and causing bad sleep and worse sweats?

I wonder if the DHEA is making it worse? I will stop this and see how my night sweats are. I know dhea can impact the adrenal glands and maybe it's messing up my natural cortisol rhythm. Just a guess though.

 

[Joshlm69]

Try dosing the DHEA early AM

 

[jaeger01]

Meant to ask. You seem knowledgeable with all of this.

Would creatine have any impact on cortisol?

I was recently supplementing 3g of creatine and hcl. My night sweats were horrendous on creatine. It was also destroying my sleep.

I have a sleep tracker I wear every night. When I'm on creatine my deep sleep is like 20 minutes. Once I stop supplementing creatine and it clears my system my deep sleep jumps up to 1h 20+. I've experimented with this now 3 times and it's like clockwork.

Just wondered if creatine was affecting my cortisol and causing bad sleep and worse sweats?

I wonder if the DHEA is making it worse? I will stop this and see how my night sweats are. I know dhea can impact the adrenal glands and maybe it's messing up my natural cortisol rhythm. Just a guess though.

Dhea could absolutely be making it worse. It's a potent inhibitor of the enzyme that converts inactive cortisone to active cortisol. I'd either drop it or move it to AM.

As for creatine, I'm not aware of a mechanism that could be impacting sleep there but I suppose it's possible, especially if the effect is as reliable as you say. Try moving that to AM dose if it isn't already.

I still think the test and primo cycle is the most likely culprit but at this point I might drop everything you're on except the test and any cycle supports, see if it improves over the next week , and then add everything else back one by one.

 

[bell1986]

Dhea could absolutely be making it worse. It's a potent inhibitor of the enzyme that converts inactive cortisone to active cortisol. I'd either drop it or move it to AM.

As for creatine, I'm not aware of a mechanism that could be impacting sleep there but I suppose it's possible, especially if the effect is as reliable as you say. Try moving that to AM dose if it isn't already.

I still think the test and primo cycle is the most likely culprit but at this point I might drop everything you're on except the test and any cycle supports, see if it improves over the next week , and then add everything else back one by one.

I will drop the DHEA + Primo for a week and see how I respond.

I remember reading that 7-oxo was a metabolite of DHEA and it was known to inhibit cortisol fairly potently. This is why I was thinking that DHEA may also be inhibiting this enzyme also. DHEA on trt for me has been a blessing. I done bloodwork and my DHEA Sulfate levels were at the bottom of the reference range. I added in 25mg and it raised it to the top. I felt alot better so it would be horrid to drop it. If it does stop the night sweats I may try like a twice a week dosing protocol and just play around. Different doses etc.

It's not actually affecting me poorly. It's just more annoying. I also just see it as my body is unhappy with something. I do get some fatigue when I first wake up. Hopefully if I sort my cortisol then this fatigue may subside. It's a chore getting up for work.

I have an adrenal formula their. Just powdered adrenal glands + Licorice etc. I could also give this a run? I don't want to add too much in though. Just more pills.

Thanks for your help. Very much appreciated.

 

[jaeger01]

I will drop the DHEA + Primo for a week and see how I respond.

I remember reading that 7-oxo was a metabolite of DHEA and it was known to inhibit cortisol fairly potently. This is why I was thinking that DHEA may also be inhibiting this enzyme also. DHEA on trt for me has been a blessing. I done bloodwork and my DHEA Sulfate levels were at the bottom of the reference range. I added in 25mg and it raised it to the top. I felt alot better so it would be horrid to drop it. If it does stop the night sweats I may try like a twice a week dosing protocol and just play around. Different doses etc.

It's not actually affecting me poorly. It's just more annoying. I also just see it as my body is unhappy with something. I do get some fatigue when I first wake up. Hopefully if I sort my cortisol then this fatigue may subside. It's a chore getting up for work.

I have an adrenal formula their. Just powdered adrenal glands + Licorice etc. I could also give this a run? I don't want to add too much in though. Just more pills.

Thanks for your help. Very much appreciated.

You're welcome, good luck sorting it out and let us know what works.

 

[jim2509]

I've checked all these markers. My e2 sits around 40. This is ideal for me.

The primo is from a reputable company which has been tested.

I also do regular bloodwork and my hs-crp is almost at 0. Usually if an infection is lingering it would show on this marker.

I think it's a cortisol issue? Alot of the guys here are 100% correct. The sweats only start at around 3-5am. If I wake at 2am I have no sweats. I usually wake around 5am everyday and I'm drenched by then. Gonna dig into this theory


This sounds 100% right.

I've noticed that if I wake around 1-2am (For the toilet) I don't have the sweats. I notice that they seem to start around 3-5am like you stated. This exact problem happened lastnight. I woke up and no sweats. I then went back to sleep at woke at 5.30am and my bed is soaked in sweat.

Sounds like it's a cortisol issue then?

How could I fix this? I can't use ashwaghanda. I get the anhedonia issue that ashwaghanda seems to give select people. I feel very numb and robotic if I supplement it. Do you know what else I could try to fix this issue? Would rhodiola help?

I suspect this low morning cortisol is also the reason why I feel very lethargic in the morning? I've noticed that I feel very tired when I wake. I have no issues sleeping.

I will need to start researching this. Is it the androgens causing the low cortisol or could it be something else? I do supplement DHEA. I've read that this can also impact cortisol levels through the adrenal glands?

Thanks for giving all this info. When I read your reply it seemed 100% correct. Everything you mentioned was exactly what's happening with me.

Thanks

Seems like you are all over this nice one

 

[jaeger01]

I've checked all these markers. My e2 sits around 40. This is ideal for me.

The primo is from a reputable company which has been tested.

I also do regular bloodwork and my hs-crp is almost at 0. Usually if an infection is lingering it would show on this marker.

I think it's a cortisol issue? Alot of the guys here are 100% correct. The sweats only start at around 3-5am. If I wake at 2am I have no sweats. I usually wake around 5am everyday and I'm drenched by then. Gonna dig into this theory


This sounds 100% right.

I've noticed that if I wake around 1-2am (For the toilet) I don't have the sweats. I notice that they seem to start around 3-5am like you stated. This exact problem happened lastnight. I woke up and no sweats. I then went back to sleep at woke at 5.30am and my bed is soaked in sweat.

Sounds like it's a cortisol issue then?

How could I fix this? I can't use ashwaghanda. I get the anhedonia issue that ashwaghanda seems to give select people. I feel very numb and robotic if I supplement it. Do you know what else I could try to fix this issue? Would rhodiola help?

I suspect this low morning cortisol is also the reason why I feel very lethargic in the morning? I've noticed that I feel very tired when I wake. I have no issues sleeping.

I will need to start researching this. Is it the androgens causing the low cortisol or could it be something else? I do supplement DHEA. I've read that this can also impact cortisol levels through the adrenal glands?

Thanks for giving all this info. When I read your reply it seemed 100% correct. Everything you mentioned was exactly what's happening with me.

Thanks

Didn't see this post earlier, but I still think dropping as many supplements as you can and adding them back one by one would help figure out what works best for you. Being lethargic in the morning can be a sign of low cortisol, or high stress from high cortisol, or a million other things lol. You may also just need more sleep than you're getting. But it will be hard to figure this out with something approximating certainly until you're off cycle and back to your baseline trt dose bc that just messes with everything we're talking about.

Rhodiola may be worth a try. Also be aware of caffeine consumption as that typically spikes cortisol with adrenaline at high enough doses. l-theanine with caffeine can help some people with this.

One other supp that helps me with cortisol control is phosphatidylserine at around 600-900 mg, once per day in the morning or early afternoon. If I take it before bed though I tend to get the chills.

 

[BCseacow83]

There is a chance that 40 is NOT ideal for you with the current level of androgens. The ratio does play a role and 40 being prefect MAY go out the window on your "high" doses.

I may have missed it but I don't see your age, sometimes just getting a little older throws a wrench in things. The body just rejects things or has weird sides to protocols, diets, training it completely jived with just a few years back. Aging sucks.

I've checked all these markers. My e2 sits around 40. This is ideal for me.

The primo is from a reputable company which has been tested.

I also do regular bloodwork and my hs-crp is almost at 0. Usually if an infection is lingering it would show on this marker.

I think it's a cortisol issue? Alot of the guys here are 100% correct. The sweats only start at around 3-5am. If I wake at 2am I have no sweats. I usually wake around 5am everyday and I'm drenched by then. Gonna dig into this theory


This sounds 100% right.

I've noticed that if I wake around 1-2am (For the toilet) I don't have the sweats. I notice that they seem to start around 3-5am like you stated. This exact problem happened lastnight. I woke up and no sweats. I then went back to sleep at woke at 5.30am and my bed is soaked in sweat.

Sounds like it's a cortisol issue then?

How could I fix this? I can't use ashwaghanda. I get the anhedonia issue that ashwaghanda seems to give select people. I feel very numb and robotic if I supplement it. Do you know what else I could try to fix this issue? Would rhodiola help?

I suspect this low morning cortisol is also the reason why I feel very lethargic in the morning? I've noticed that I feel very tired when I wake. I have no issues sleeping.

I will need to start researching this. Is it the androgens causing the low cortisol or could it be something else? I do supplement DHEA. I've read that this can also impact cortisol levels through the adrenal glands?

Thanks for giving all this info. When I read your reply it seemed 100% correct. Everything you mentioned was exactly what's happening with me.

Thanks

 

[NegativeMass]

I get night sweats from androgen levels over TRT. The higher mg's the more I sweat. I also get them really bad from GH. Even 2.2iu nightly. Never found a solution as I can sleep in an frigid room and it still happens.

 

[bell1986]

Hey guys.

I think I have found the issue. It seems that my DIM + Calcium D Glucarate supplement is the cause? I stopped it 3 days ago and not a single night sweat since. I'm still on the Test + Primo at the same doses and no night sweats.

That's actually gave me relief. I just thought that with me aging my body wasn't tolerating the higher androgens.

I aromatise fairly potently and added in the DIM + Calcium D Glucarate to help keep my estrogen balanced. I had a good level of estrogen on 150mg test + 50mg of primo + Dim + CDG. I've had gyno before and had to use raloxifene to get rid of it. I just purchased a bloodwork kit so I will see what dropping the DIM/CDG does to my estrogen. I suspect I wil get a mild increase. My plan was to creep up the test dose to around 300mg + 100mg primo for a few weeks just to add some mass. I was stalling this due to the sweats. I can now start the dose climb. I do my bloods all the time to keep a monitor on my levels. I once crashed my estrogen with primo. It remained crashed for 6 weeks and that was horrible. Never felt so low and tired in my life. So I'm very careful with primo. My body reacts crazy strong to test + Primo. A 120mg test dose sits me at 1200ng/dl. 300mg will have me at 3000+. This should help add some mass. I won't go above 300 I reckonI. 'm adding more food as I'm climbing also. My weight has been the same for months now. Everytime I add more food I will move the scale slightly and I will have like one day of a blip in food and my weight plummets again. It's hard to eat 4-5 thousand calories everyday like a robot.

Anyone know why DIM + Calcium D Glucarate was causing this? I've read that DIM also is a potent cortisol reducer?

Thanks

 

[Hyde]

Hey guys.

I think I have found the issue. It seems that my DIM + Calcium D Glucarate supplement is the cause? I stopped it 3 days ago and not a single night sweat since. I'm still on the Test + Primo at the same doses and no night sweats.

That's actually gave me relief. I just thought that with me aging my body wasn't tolerating the higher androgens.

I aromatise fairly potently and added in the DIM + Calcium D Glucarate to help keep my estrogen balanced. I had a good level of estrogen on 150mg test + 50mg of primo + Dim + CDG. I've had gyno before and had to use raloxifene to get rid of it. I just purchased a bloodwork kit so I will see what dropping the DIM/CDG does to my estrogen. I suspect I wil get a mild increase. My plan was to creep up the test dose to around 300mg + 100mg primo for a few weeks just to add some mass. I was stalling this due to the sweats. I can now start the dose climb. I do my bloods all the time to keep a monitor on my levels. I once crashed my estrogen with primo. It remained crashed for 6 weeks and that was horrible. Never felt so low and tired in my life. So I'm very careful with primo. My body reacts crazy strong to test + Primo. A 120mg test dose sits me at 1200ng/dl. 300mg will have me at 3000+. This should help add some mass. I won't go above 300 I reckonI. 'm adding more food as I'm climbing also. My weight has been the same for months now. Everytime I add more food I will move the scale slightly and I will have like one day of a blip in food and my weight plummets again. It's hard to eat 4-5 thousand calories everyday like a robot.

Anyone know why DIM + Calcium D Glucarate was causing this? I've read that DIM also is a potent cortisol reducer?

Thanks

Not that it won’t work for your goals (it will), but just for your understanding, having 1200ng/dl total test on 120/wk does not mean 300mg/wk will produce a linear response (3,000ng/dl). But levels aren’t everything either. There are people with huge levels of test that have very mediocre muscle mass, relatively. Genetics for test levels also aren’t the same as genetics for AR amount & response.

Also, remember that if you aren’t gaining weight at all over time, you will need more calories. It doesn’t matter how hard it is or whether it’s fair to you - you can either pull it off, or you won’t. And adding gear means that number usually goes up! So be mindful of that task ahead.

 

[bell1986]

Not that it won’t work for your goals (it will), but just for your understanding, having 1200ng/dl total test on 120/wk does not mean 300mg/wk will produce a linear response (3,000ng/dl). But levels aren’t everything either. There are people with huge levels of test that have very mediocre muscle mass, relatively. Genetics for test levels also aren’t the same as genetics for AR amount & response.

Also, remember that if you aren’t gaining weight at all over time, you will need more calories. It doesn’t matter how hard it is or whether it’s fair to you - you can either pull it off, or you won’t. And adding gear means that number usually goes up! So be mindful of that task ahead.

Yeh your 100% correct. I can say though that I've done bloods on 300mg+ and in my body it's always linear. 300mg seen my test level at 3400ng/dl. I always do my bloods everytime I've changed my protocol. I need to pay for them privately as the doctors here in the UK would freak out at 3400ng/dl. Would probably try to throw you on an androgen blocker lol. I use medichecks and they genuinely don't fuss about steroids. They also have an amazing range on their scale. A few years ago they would just show your results as 900ng/dl>+. So you could be at 3000ng/dl and not have a clue. That's all changed.

I've honestly exhausted more food. Been up at 5000 calories and just felt like death all day. Tired and digesting 24/7. I can move the needle when my dose climbs. I do climb calories at the same time. I work in a crazy physical job. It's actually a hindrance for muscle mass. I walk on average 25-40 thousand steps during a shift. Just ridiculous. Hence why I need so much food. I also get that hard training mindset when I do go to a higher dose. Working in my job and then coming home to then hit a gym is hard to do. If I change my protocol up I will battle that work fatigue and tell myself that I want the most from this cycle. You will know what I mean. It's like the rush when you first start a gym and begin to see results. Makes you want to train harder.

300mg + 100mg primo isn't a hare cycle. It's fairly mild in today's terms. I do try and keep as healthy as possible. I do bloods all the way through and I use the usual health additions. TUDCA 1g a day. NAC. Omega 3's etc. Usually trt or higher test can mess up your lipids. Mine is amazing for being on PED's. My HDL is always high and my LDL is low. My HS Crp barely registers on the scale (Inflammation marker). Liver/kidneys are all perfect.

Thanks for your advice

 

[Ricky10]

Give NPP a little trial run. Even at low dose you wake up in a puddles.

At the time, I had just given up kratom and thought it was from withdrawals.

Nope

 

[Hyde]

Yeh your 100% correct. I can say though that I've done bloods on 300mg+ and in my body it's always linear. 300mg seen my test level at 3400ng/dl. I always do my bloods everytime I've changed my protocol. I need to pay for them privately as the doctors here in the UK would freak out at 3400ng/dl. Would probably try to throw you on an androgen blocker lol. I use medichecks and they genuinely don't fuss about steroids. They also have an amazing range on their scale. A few years ago they would just show your results as 900ng/dl>+. So you could be at 3000ng/dl and not have a clue. That's all changed.

I've honestly exhausted more food. Been up at 5000 calories and just felt like death all day. Tired and digesting 24/7. I can move the needle when my dose climbs. I do climb calories at the same time. I work in a crazy physical job. It's actually a hindrance for muscle mass. I walk on average 25-40 thousand steps during a shift. Just ridiculous. Hence why I need so much food. I also get that hard training mindset when I do go to a higher dose. Working in my job and then coming home to then hit a gym is hard to do. If I change my protocol up I will battle that work fatigue and tell myself that I want the most from this cycle. You will know what I mean. It's like the rush when you first start a gym and begin to see results. Makes you want to train harder.

300mg + 100mg primo isn't a hare cycle. It's fairly mild in today's terms. I do try and keep as healthy as possible. I do bloods all the way through and I use the usual health additions. TUDCA 1g a day. NAC. Omega 3's etc. Usually trt or higher test can mess up your lipids. Mine is amazing for being on PED's. My HDL is always high and my LDL is low. My HS Crp barely registers on the scale (Inflammation marker). Liver/kidneys are all perfect.

Thanks for your advice

The eating is the hardest part. I ended my last bulk at 5,600-5,800/day the last week to break through to 270lbs/123kg. And that is with a sedentary work-from-home job.

It’s not fair; it just is what it is. You will never be hungry, always be full & digesting, and need to take 2 full craps a day usually. Sleep is hard, you are lethargic all day, and you are hot all the time as well.

I wish I had some cheat code. You have to start consuming calories first thing in the day, always eat up until bed time, always be using condiments and oils and drinking calories with meals. I have no issues with gluten, so I like large amounts of pasta with olive oil and parmesan with a big glass of high protein milk. And hi cal blended shakes, and I drink orange juice with my ground meat & rice (that is mixed with broth to help it slide down faster).

Pizzas and burgers and such can help the process along, but you have to be mindful that you must eat on schedule, so oversized meals that are extra filling need to be reserved for the last meal once you have gotten in the rest of the day’s needs.