pushinweightw
Member
That is an angle I have never even thought of. Repped
New Ecdy Product - LegalGear
- Thread starter LG Sciences
- Start date
That is an angle I have never even thought of. Repped
pushinweightw
Member
scoooter
Well-known member
I deal with ECO's (engineering change orders) on a daily basis. Its the nature of the developmental / design cycle. If you came out with the most optimum configuration on the first run then it was luck or your very good but it is a rare occurrence. Beta-1 testing would be a good starting point to establish a baseline.
pushinweightw
Member
Final release aka distributors and all retailers shoule get the "shiznit," but I am sure many would love the chance to help tweak product X till it acheives "shiznit" status, lol.
I guess I just hate waiting....
biggkarim
Member
Rodja
Board Sponsor
Acidosis is one of the primary culprits for a negative nitrogen balance along with a myriad of other conditions. I have been a huge proponent of eating based around the PRAL scale for a couple of years now.
One of the trick that I like to do with ecdy is to mix it with some Leucine/BCAA and put into a 1/2G jug and drink throughout the day. I really like to do this while cutting to avoid catabolism.
pushinweightw
Member
I have done something similar in the past with good results. Never added the ecdy though.
flightposite
Board Sponsor
Invalid Link Removedplease dont waste it youl make Al Gore angry!
Mixelflick
Active member
Thanks for the reps on the acidosis post.
If you're interested in learning more tricks about how I believe ecdy is best utilized, google "organic anabolism". I sell a course on such. For a mere $25, it'll give you the training, diet, supp recommendations etc. that I believe are optimal. The acidosis was just one tidbit. I have my favorite brands like anyone, but whoever's product you use... I am confident you will get the most out of your ecdy with this information.
And no, I don't make a cent off of anyone's product...
If you're interested in learning more tricks about how I believe ecdy is best utilized, google "organic anabolism". I sell a course on such. For a mere $25, it'll give you the training, diet, supp recommendations etc. that I believe are optimal. The acidosis was just one tidbit. I have my favorite brands like anyone, but whoever's product you use... I am confident you will get the most out of your ecdy with this information.
And no, I don't make a cent off of anyone's product...
LG Sciences
Board Sponsor
Mixel is the expert in these matters!
Mixelflick
Active member
Not really, but I appreciate your comments.
I have given it years of study (15+). I'm as open to learning as anyone and very much enjoy it. So by all means if I can help, I will. If I can learn, all the better..
I have given it years of study (15+). I'm as open to learning as anyone and very much enjoy it. So by all means if I can help, I will. If I can learn, all the better..
LG Sciences
Board Sponsor
Exciting news!
So, as you know Legalgear is going to release it's first product in many years called "Sub - Ecdy" but in fact this is going to be even better when I release my finest creation the Poly Actetate Ester 20-Hydroxy Ecdysterone!
Now, tomorrow I make a NEW improved batch of Sub Ecdy complexed with Cyclodextrin to give the finest delivery known to man for ecdy!
Get your applications in NOW!
So, as you know Legalgear is going to release it's first product in many years called "Sub - Ecdy" but in fact this is going to be even better when I release my finest creation the Poly Actetate Ester 20-Hydroxy Ecdysterone!
Now, tomorrow I make a NEW improved batch of Sub Ecdy complexed with Cyclodextrin to give the finest delivery known to man for ecdy!
Get your applications in NOW!
TexasLifter89
Well-known member
I have to do more reading on ecdy. I have never used it before, but i have read some of mixels stuff over at bb.com
LG Sciences
Board Sponsor
The polyacetate is going to be the ****, I am really excited!
TexasLifter89
Well-known member
do you have any studies you could post? What can one expect to get out of this product?
LG Sciences
Board Sponsor
Well, just that Ecdysterone polyacetate is active in tissue and then just the ecdysterone studies increasing strength, stamina and muscle density.
TexasLifter89
Well-known member
hmm... I am interested to see the results of this versus standard ecdy products then. I have read, but never personally used.
1HP
Well-known member
Interesting, I went through quite some bottles of the old scivation anagen, it was on sale at the end of its lifecycle and I bought 10 or so bottles. It had "Cyanotis Vaga 167 mg (Supplying 60% [100mg] 20-beta-hydroxyecdysterone [HPLC tested])" and rhodiola and bacopa as extra's. I had very good results from running that. I thought it was a great anti-catabolic. I made good strength gains on it on compound lifts while cutting, great muscle fullness also. I went up to 10 caps a day back then which in theorie should be 1 gram of 20-beta-hydroxyecdysterone.
Mixelflick
Active member
I really think anyone interested in Ecdy should look into this product. A cyclo has never been mass produced to my knowledge, and certainly not the 20-h variant proposed here. Keep in mind at the end of the day it's still an adaptogen vs. an androgen so the mechanism of action is different and must be respected as such.
This could be the breakthrough though. Stay tuned..
This could be the breakthrough though. Stay tuned..
Craigmatthew
Well-known member
Man, how good is this sounding. Possible stack usages for this product?
LG Sciences
Board Sponsor
The great thing is that it stacks with androgens and protein. You couldn't ask for more than that. Also, when we find testers we need a good range of people.
pushinweightw
Member
Never done an ECDY with an androgen. That might be my first stack when I come back for my current injury. Synergism is always a really cool effect to achieve!
LG Sciences
Board Sponsor
Doing the complexing right now. Seems like at this dose of cyclodextrin to ecdy-p-ethanoate only about half the ecdy-p goes into solution. I am adding in more cyclodextrin (which costs a pretty penny I might add) but I want this to be the best ecdy product on the market, so I am going balls out.
fightbackhxc
Well-known member
balls outs, balls deep and balls to the wall.
LG Sciences
Board Sponsor
Got it into solution, but when I added in the citric acid it crashed...so back to the drawing board. Acid is necessary for the preservatives to work properly.
flightposite
Board Sponsor
ive never used a ecdy product but i may have to try this one out. what kind of effects should one notice from ecdy?
Urban Monk
Board Sponsor
Try Boric Acid eric. The effect should be better.
1. In a preserved aqueous pharmaceutical composition comprising a therapeutically effective amount of a pharmaceutically active agent, a chelating agent, a cyclodextrin and an antimicrobial preservative, the improvement wherein the preservative comprises a combination of boric acid and an antimicrobial preservative compound consisting essentially of a compound selected from the group consisting of C16 benzalkanium halide compounds in an amount from about 0.01-0.5% by weight and polymeric quaternary ammonium compounds in an amount from about 0.001-3% by weight.
Mixelflick
Active member
An ecdy with an androgen isn't necessary, albeit it certainly works.
Ecdy studies (in particular those on rats using compounds 1-4 in the Soviet literature) only state that optimal hormone (testosterone) levels are necessary. As you know, this can be accomplished a multitude of different ways.
What is clear is that translation is the rate limiting step in protein synthesis. This is what makes ecdy so exciting. You can boost trascription exponentially via more androgens but only observe a minor increase in translation, if any. Even a small boost in translation though (given the same level of transcription) yields a BIG increase in anabolism.
Translation: You can observe the same or even better results by using a quality ecdysterone on the same or lesser amount of an androgen/anti-estrogen. Depending upon the ecdy involved, it's also one of the best liver protectors out there and goes a LONG way toward normalizing other bodily functions on cycle.
Suggested legal stacks:
All herbal: Eurycoma Longifolia and Trib plus RCE
Trib plus Divanex plus RCE
Testofen (furostanolic saponins) plus RCE
There was also a patent pending anti-catabolic/ecdy combo that I was aware of. In practice though (and I think those goes for all anti-catabolics), results were less than favorable.
AI: ATD plus RCE
6 bromo plus RCE
Formestane plus RCE
Any of these will produce excellent results.
Ecdy studies (in particular those on rats using compounds 1-4 in the Soviet literature) only state that optimal hormone (testosterone) levels are necessary. As you know, this can be accomplished a multitude of different ways.
What is clear is that translation is the rate limiting step in protein synthesis. This is what makes ecdy so exciting. You can boost trascription exponentially via more androgens but only observe a minor increase in translation, if any. Even a small boost in translation though (given the same level of transcription) yields a BIG increase in anabolism.
Translation: You can observe the same or even better results by using a quality ecdysterone on the same or lesser amount of an androgen/anti-estrogen. Depending upon the ecdy involved, it's also one of the best liver protectors out there and goes a LONG way toward normalizing other bodily functions on cycle.
Suggested legal stacks:
All herbal: Eurycoma Longifolia and Trib plus RCE
Trib plus Divanex plus RCE
Testofen (furostanolic saponins) plus RCE
There was also a patent pending anti-catabolic/ecdy combo that I was aware of. In practice though (and I think those goes for all anti-catabolics), results were less than favorable.
AI: ATD plus RCE
6 bromo plus RCE
Formestane plus RCE
Any of these will produce excellent results.
scoooter
Well-known member
I read earlier in the thread that LG is using CV not RCE
LG Sciences
Board Sponsor
Again on a 90-95% extract, I can't see the difference. Do numbers mean anything any more? 95% ecdysterone means it is 95% the same material. So, the 5% would have to be pretty special to do anything, and also what's to say that the process even picks up the co-factors.
Even worse is the dude at bb.com that says a HPLC or GMass can't identify ecdy...rolls eyes.
Even worse is the dude at bb.com that says a HPLC or GMass can't identify ecdy...rolls eyes.
pushinweightw
Member
There certainly has been some EPIC threads about ecdy over there.
LG Sciences
Board Sponsor
Well, it is frustrating. I am sure companies want to make their extracts out to sound great and all, but as I said, they've tested ecdy in the literature from a variety of sources and it all seems to have the same results. Additionally, like I explained, the proper source for identifying should be HPLC or Gmass. Companies are selling 90% UV which is a joke!
I will snap a picture of the 90% UV vs. the 90% HPLC when I get in the office tomorrow. You won't believe the difference.
I will snap a picture of the 90% UV vs. the 90% HPLC when I get in the office tomorrow. You won't believe the difference.
pushinweightw
Member
I never really understood how there could be such a difference but that point is pushed so hard by some of the "heavy hitters" over there that suddenly what s being preached is now gospel.
.
thundergod
Well-known member
This is what I'm talking bout!!! :woohoo:
I'm loving the sound of this more and more.
I will definitely try this out when Eric gets all the bugs worked out of it.
I will run a strong androgen cycle coupled with the Ecdy.
And then in PCT I will use ATD and Resveratrol plus the Ecdy.
I wanna see if it actually improves my results over past identical cycles.
I've used Ecdy before, but it was always in a product mixed with many other compounds. Hard to tell if I was responding to the Ecdy or the other stuff.
LG Sciences
Board Sponsor
I trust Thunder's opinion on this, I am just waiting on the additional samples so I can finish formulating.
fightbackhxc
Well-known member
increased protein synthesis, harder fuller muscles.......just to name a few.
GuyverX
Well-known member
Mixelflick
Active member
Yes, it does.
The rat studies I referenced say something to the effect that (paraphrasing) "Administration of compounds 1-4 in castrated rats greatly reduces the anabolic effects".
So this tells us a few things:
1.) Some level of testosterone (and therefore transcription) is necessary to impart its effects and...
2.) Optimal DNA transcription allows for a greater level of mRNA tranlation in the assembly of structural proteins.
Anti-E's obviously boost test. In some cases, to supraphysiological levels. These levels do not result in muscle growth you'd think they would. There are verified lab test showing testosterone going from mid-normal range to well over 1300ng/dl yet the results indicate only a "hardening" effect, perhaps a few lbs of muscle gained.
Ecdy therefore could be the key that unlocks these gains. By consuming a smaller amount of said anti-e estrogens wouldn't be suppressed as much and thus, muscle growth would be greater. Yes, you need a little estrogen too. Still unclear is its ability to mitigate HDL/LDL issues as seen with strong anti-e's such as ATD.
Would be a nice side benefit and I wouldn't bet against it..
The rat studies I referenced say something to the effect that (paraphrasing) "Administration of compounds 1-4 in castrated rats greatly reduces the anabolic effects".
So this tells us a few things:
1.) Some level of testosterone (and therefore transcription) is necessary to impart its effects and...
2.) Optimal DNA transcription allows for a greater level of mRNA tranlation in the assembly of structural proteins.
Anti-E's obviously boost test. In some cases, to supraphysiological levels. These levels do not result in muscle growth you'd think they would. There are verified lab test showing testosterone going from mid-normal range to well over 1300ng/dl yet the results indicate only a "hardening" effect, perhaps a few lbs of muscle gained.
Ecdy therefore could be the key that unlocks these gains. By consuming a smaller amount of said anti-e estrogens wouldn't be suppressed as much and thus, muscle growth would be greater. Yes, you need a little estrogen too. Still unclear is its ability to mitigate HDL/LDL issues as seen with strong anti-e's such as ATD.
Would be a nice side benefit and I wouldn't bet against it..
LG Sciences
Board Sponsor
Yeah, this stacks really well with PH's, steroids and AI's...
Craigmatthew
Well-known member
GuyverX
Well-known member
Well then ecdy would be perfect in my stack.
I did have a leaning/hardening effect with ecdy in years past.
And even though others said it was worthless it was from the scifit kind at 600-1200 mgs per day with a 300 or 600 mg does every 12 hours with a high protein meal.
And thats why I mostly stick to anti-e cycles.
I can gain easily and as long as I eat clean the fat is easy to keep off.
So I am really trying to maintain and harden/rip because I am only a few months into my current regimen.
And I think the combo would be pretty sick.
Since I like to use products from the same company on a cycle I'll probably get the T-911 when the new Ecdy from LG comes out.
Low doses of Form and Trione worked well for me in the past.
Mixelflick
Active member
Sure, glad you enjoy the info.
Something else that's been overlooked is Ecdy's synergy with loaded stretch position movements.
In 2006, The Muscular Dystrophy Assoc. funded a study (published in the Journal of Cellular Phsiology) showing that mechanical stretch up regulates the PI3K/AKT signaling pathway in skeletal muscle.
Fast forward to 2008. Scientists published the following results in J. Agric. Food Chem., 2008, 56 (10), pp 3532–3537 (from the abstract):
"In C2C12 murine myotubes and human primary myotubes, phytoecdysteroids increased protein synthesis by up to 20%. In vivo, ecdysteroids increased rat grip strength. Ecdysteroid-containing plant extracts produced similar results. The effect was inhibited by a phosphoinositide kinase-3 inhibitor, which suggests a PI3K-mediated mechanism."
So if Ecdy works via this mechanism (and there is strong evidence it does) and training adaptations can be manipulated to further amplify that pathway, that begs the question: will it improve hypertrophy when both are used?
In my opinion, it certainly does. I detail exactly how to exploit this in my course.
If you google "organic anabolism", you'll find it.
Something else that's been overlooked is Ecdy's synergy with loaded stretch position movements.
In 2006, The Muscular Dystrophy Assoc. funded a study (published in the Journal of Cellular Phsiology) showing that mechanical stretch up regulates the PI3K/AKT signaling pathway in skeletal muscle.
Fast forward to 2008. Scientists published the following results in J. Agric. Food Chem., 2008, 56 (10), pp 3532–3537 (from the abstract):
"In C2C12 murine myotubes and human primary myotubes, phytoecdysteroids increased protein synthesis by up to 20%. In vivo, ecdysteroids increased rat grip strength. Ecdysteroid-containing plant extracts produced similar results. The effect was inhibited by a phosphoinositide kinase-3 inhibitor, which suggests a PI3K-mediated mechanism."
So if Ecdy works via this mechanism (and there is strong evidence it does) and training adaptations can be manipulated to further amplify that pathway, that begs the question: will it improve hypertrophy when both are used?
In my opinion, it certainly does. I detail exactly how to exploit this in my course.
If you google "organic anabolism", you'll find it.
Vengeance187
Member
Awesome. I'm starting an Epi pulse next week...wish I had some Ecdy to go with it.:yup: lol
GuyverX
Well-known member
Something told me I should have went into biology and chemistry instead of computer science.
Grr.
Will be looking up the information.
LG Sciences
Board Sponsor
My biologist says "I should have gone into computers instead of micro-biology"
fightbackhxc
Well-known member
how is this coming? any progress?
scoooter
Well-known member
Yeah, is it soup yet ? I mean have you been capable of keeping it in solution without it crashing when adding in acid for the preservative ? I sure hope so, good luck.
LG Sciences
Board Sponsor
Back in the lab today. I was so bummed that the last stuff crashed, really sucked!