Natty Stack during PCT - Thoughts?

[TruthWalker]

Hey guys, I am I am currently 29 years old, 6', 180lbs, 12% bf, working out consistently for 2 years. I have run many cycles before, especially when i was younger and didn't have as much discipline, such as 1test/4ad transdermal, Superdrol solo, SD/Tren/Stano, LMG/Stano/DMZ, but zero hormonal products in the last year and a half. I will soon be running a 6 weeker of 10mg Superdrol and 25mg Proviron (possibly 50) for recomping and strength purposes, i.e. gaining 5-7lbs LBM and losing 1-2% BF, and wanted some input on my PCT plan and what kinds of results I should expect during this natty stack PCT. It will be as follows:

Nolva 40/40/20/20
Anabeta Elite 0/4/4/4/4/4/4/4 (I have one full bottle of new formulation, and 3/4 bottle of old formulation, hence skipping the first week, using new form first)
LGI Rehab 4/4/4/4/4/4/4/4 (lots of goodies including 50mg arimistane, 200mg LDopa, 300mg tetrahydrofuran, and more)
X-Gels 1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1 (in grams)

My ancillary supps will consist of Cycle Assist or Life Support throughout, +LivClean (1000mg NAC, 600mg Milk Thistle, Tumeric)

My goal during PCT will be to continue the recomp, resulting in a 6 week SD/Pro cycle + 8 weeks of PCT/Natty Stack, and hopefully gaining another 3-5lbs LBM and losing another 1-2% bf. This will bring me to a total of, after 14 weeks of being on, 8-12lbs LBM increase and a decrease bf by 3-4% bf by my estimation. I think these types of gains with the products I have at my disposal, along with proper diet and training of course, are very attainable. I will in all likelihood be doing an intense full body workout with mostly compound lifts on M W F, along with the occasional extra isolation workout on Saturdays, with HIIT on Tuesday/Thursdays. I will be eating at 250kcals under maintenance (which turns out to be about 2750) while on cycle, and will be eating updated maintenance calories during PCT depending on my gains.

My questions are as follows: First and foremost, is this a good setup for PCT that will allow me to continue to see gains after coming off SD, or should I just use nolva and LGI Rehab and save the ABE/X-gels for a future 8 week natty cycle? Second, does anyone have any other recommendations for additions to my PCT protocol, other than possibly DAA? Would throwing in Erase Pro be a waste? The 6 week superdrol proviron cycle is non negotiable and has already been discussed in the Anabolics forum, so please don't comment on that. Let me know if I am missing anything, or could add something very beneficial. Thanks!!!

 

[bolt10]

I think you would be fine with what you have now for what would be a pretty good PCT. I know others have enjoyed X-gels and AnaBeta Elite in PCT. I wouldn't throw in Erase Pro with the Rehab already in there.

 

[veaderko]

If you want to add anymore that would be simiilar to DAA, I would go for NMDAA from Intimidate SRT.

Otherwise I think you are pretty good. I personally like to keep PCT simple, with Nolva, Intimidate, and Reduce.

Good luck!

 

[mtinsideout]

Ashwagandha, tongkat, boron... Viron already has both tongkat and boron, ashwagandha is relatively cheap as a bulk powder and has a lot of other benefits as well.

 

[R1balla]

I would run X Gels + Anabeta + Macapro

 

[TruthWalker]

Awesome guys, thanks for the advice. I was thinking about adding Intimidate or a DAA supp so I will look into grabbing some of that.

 

[schizm]

Awesome guys, thanks for the advice. I was thinking about adding Intimidate or a DAA supp so I will look into grabbing some of that.

Would def go with a sodium based DAA supp, which was used in the studies (such as ours), each bottle has a 6 week run (at the studied dose) in it...

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/serious-nutrition-solutions/daa-180-capsules.html

 

[Montego1]

Awesome guys, thanks for the advice. I was thinking about adding Intimidate or a DAA supp so I will look into grabbing some of that.

Should go with MASS 550.

Feedback had been nothing short of stellar so far. When used in PCT you're killing two birds with one stone, as far as an AI and Test booster in conjunction due to Letrosterone along with novel doses of DAA and Fenugreek.

Add in the increased protein synthesis from Maslinic acid and your PCT will be off the charts.

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/redefine-nutrition/new-mass-550-free-custom-t-shirt-limited-time.html

 

[g0hardorgohom]

You could look into EP1C (300mg of (-)-epicatechin per cap) and DermaSTRENGTH (transdermal 5a-hydroxy laxogenin) as well. Feedback is great so far.

 

[Adizzle1]

I would switch Rehab for Alphamax, for daily serving of Alphamax your getting 1.4 grams Divanilltetrahydrafuran, 300mg L-DOPA, 75mg Arimistane plus 50mg 95% Forksolin which will help greatly with your recomp goals!

 

[TruthWalker]

Actually, it looks like I won't be able to use the X-Gels. I'm bipolar and apparently that means in order to stay stable, my brain levels of ArA have to be downregulated, otherwise my manic symptoms could be exacerbated. Awesome :-\

And you'd think that taking SD would present an issue, but I've taken it multiple times with no increase in symptoms so I'm not worried about that. Sucks about the ArA though. Any suggestions to replace the ArA?

 

[TruthWalker]

I would switch Rehab for Alphamax, for daily serving of Alphamax your getting 1.4 grams Divanilltetrahydrafuran, 300mg L-DOPA, 75mg Arimistane plus 50mg 95% Forksolin which will help greatly with your recomp goals!

I'd totally switch, except for I already have the Rehab haha.

 

[TruthWalker]

You could look into EP1C (300mg of (-)-epicatechin per cap) and DermaSTRENGTH (transdermal 5a-hydroxy laxogenin) as well. Feedback is great so far.

I was looking into Ep1c. that might be a great way to go since I can't take ArA now.

 

[SwolenONE]

Arachidonic Acid (X-Factor) is something I always use during pct to retain muscle mass.

A good test booster for libido increase, mood elevation and test support such as Test Factor or BioForge is also a smart call.

 

[TruthWalker]

Arachidonic Acid (X-Factor) is something I always use during pct to retain muscle mass.

A good test booster for libido increase, mood elevation and test support such as Test Factor or BioForge is also a smart call.

Yeah I wish I could take ArA, I was really looking forward to it. I will definitely look into Test Factor and BioForge.

And Adizzle, what I'll probably do is run the Rehab for the first 4 weeks, then switch to Alphamax for the last 4 since it seems to have more bang. How does Alphamax compare to Mass 550, out of curiosity?

Also does the 5a-hydroxy-laxogenin only come in transdermal form, or is oral Ok?

Right now, for my Pct stack, I've got ABE for 8 weeks and LGI Rehab for 4. Will probably add Alphamax to the last 4. Just need something to replace the ArA at this point, I don't wanna be super supped out lol. I'm also trying to plan an all natty cycle around ABE and either Rehab or Alphamax in the November before my next Superdrol run (bulk) in ~Feb.

My overall, long term goal is to be able to get to competition level physique within 1.5-2 years. Not necessarily to compete as I don't have any interest in that at this point, just to be at that level. Diet is super spot on of course, and I've recently gone back to a 3 day a week, moderate to high volume full body routine focusing on compound lifts to build mass while preferably reducing or at least just maintaining body fat percentage. I'm very well aware supplementation is tertiary when it comes to those kinds of goals

 

[Contaygious]

I'm doing one soon too.
Nolva
Tx3
Ep1c

Then
Test factor
Ape
X factor
Ep1c
King

 

[Adizzle1]

Yeah I wish I could take ArA, I was really looking forward to it. I will definitely look into Test Factor and BioForge.

And Adizzle, what I'll probably do is run the Rehab for the first 4 weeks, then switch to Alphamax for the last 4 since it seems to have more bang. How does Alphamax compare to Mass 550, out of curiosity?

Also does the 5a-hydroxy-laxogenin only come in transdermal form, or is oral Ok?

Right now, for my Pct stack, I've got ABE for 8 weeks and LGI Rehab for 4. Will probably add Alphamax to the last 4. Just need something to replace the ArA at this point, I don't wanna be super supped out lol. I'm also trying to plan an all natty cycle around ABE and either Rehab or Alphamax in the November before my next Superdrol run (bulk) in ~Feb.

My overall, long term goal is to be able to get to competition level physique within 1.5-2 years. Not necessarily to compete as I don't have any interest in that at this point, just to be at that level. Diet is super spot on of course, and I've recently gone back to a 3 day a week, moderate to high volume full body routine focusing on compound lifts to build mass while preferably reducing or at least just maintaining body fat percentage. I'm very well aware supplementation is tertiary when it comes to those kinds of goals

Alphamax is a great product but a bit different then Mass 550. Now they both have AIs however Arimistane seems to be quite potent at lowering estrogen leaving a harder, more vascular physique, on the other hand Mass 550 seems to be more for "building mass". Next up we have Forskolin dosed at 50mg, a dose proven in humans to increase lean body mass while decreasing fat mass. Mass 550 contains Maslinic Acid which certianly does have some interesting studies for protein synthesis done in trout.

We also have 1.4g of Divanill with 300mg L-Dopa, which would be great for both free and total testosterone. I believe Mass 550 contains DAA and fenugreek and were added for there synergistic benefit to the formula in a blend of 550mg.

 

[TruthWalker]

Alphamax is a great product but a bit different then Mass 550. Now they both have AIs however Arimistane seems to be quite potent at lowering estrogen leaving a harder, more vascular physique, on the other hand Mass 550 seems to be more for "building mass". Next up we have Forskolin dosed at 50mg, a dose proven in humans to increase lean body mass while decreasing fat mass. Mass 550 contains Maslinic Acid which certianly does have some interesting studies for protein synthesis done in trout.

We also have 1.4g of Divanill with 300mg L-Dopa, which would be great for both free and total testosterone. I believe Mass 550 contains DAA and fenugreek and were added for there synergistic benefit to the formula in a blend of 550mg.

Great post, definitely helps me understand a little bit better and I think at this point Alphamax would be more in line with what I am trying to accomplish. Over the next two years, with one Superdrol/Proviron recomp cycle coming up starting in two weeks, followed by the natty stack, with another natty stack in November/December, then a Superdrol/Stano/Proviron bulker in February followed by same natty stack PCT. After that I plan on sticking to natty stacks, period.

I think with my diet, training, and supplementation protocol I can go from 180lbs @ 12% bf to 195lbs and 8-9% bf within my 1.5-2 year time frame. That is a loss of 6lbs body fat and a gain of 21lbs of LBM in 18-24 months. Would you agree that is a reasonable goal, assuming I stay consistent with my diet and the correct training?

Now, I just need to find out if I should add Ep1c in place of the ArA...

 

[Olympus Labs]

To answer your question laxogenin comes in both TD and Oral. Some loggers are mixing the two, some running TD solo, and the feedback has been quite spectacular.

 

[TruthWalker]

To answer your question laxogenin comes in both TD and Oral. Some loggers are mixing the two, some running TD solo, and the feedback has been quite spectacular.

I've got another question for you...what if I just added in Ostarine for 8 weeks? the 4 weeks of PCT plus the 4 extra i plan on doing. Would you recommend Ostarine or Ep1c for my goals? I think I've narrowed it down to those two.

 

[fightbackhxc]

Hey guys, I am I am currently 29 years old, 6', 180lbs, 12% bf, working out consistently for 2 years. I have run many cycles before, especially when i was younger and didn't have as much discipline, such as 1test/4ad transdermal, Superdrol solo, SD/Tren/Stano, LMG/Stano/DMZ, but zero hormonal products in the last year and a half. I will soon be running a 6 weeker of 10mg Superdrol and 25mg Proviron (possibly 50) for recomping and strength purposes, i.e. gaining 5-7lbs LBM and losing 1-2% BF, and wanted some input on my PCT plan and what kinds of results I should expect during this natty stack PCT. It will be as follows:

Nolva 40/40/20/20
Anabeta Elite 0/4/4/4/4/4/4/4 (I have one full bottle of new formulation, and 3/4 bottle of old formulation, hence skipping the first week, using new form first)
LGI Rehab 4/4/4/4/4/4/4/4 (lots of goodies including 50mg arimistane, 200mg LDopa, 300mg tetrahydrofuran, and more)
X-Gels 1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1 (in grams)

My ancillary supps will consist of Cycle Assist or Life Support throughout, +LivClean (1000mg NAC, 600mg Milk Thistle, Tumeric)

My goal during PCT will be to continue the recomp, resulting in a 6 week SD/Pro cycle + 8 weeks of PCT/Natty Stack, and hopefully gaining another 3-5lbs LBM and losing another 1-2% bf. This will bring me to a total of, after 14 weeks of being on, 8-12lbs LBM increase and a decrease bf by 3-4% bf by my estimation. I think these types of gains with the products I have at my disposal, along with proper diet and training of course, are very attainable. I will in all likelihood be doing an intense full body workout with mostly compound lifts on M W F, along with the occasional extra isolation workout on Saturdays, with HIIT on Tuesday/Thursdays. I will be eating at 250kcals under maintenance (which turns out to be about 2750) while on cycle, and will be eating updated maintenance calories during PCT depending on my gains.

My questions are as follows: First and foremost, is this a good setup for PCT that will allow me to continue to see gains after coming off SD, or should I just use nolva and LGI Rehab and save the ABE/X-gels for a future 8 week natty cycle? Second, does anyone have any other recommendations for additions to my PCT protocol, other than possibly DAA? Would throwing in Erase Pro be a waste? The 6 week superdrol proviron cycle is non negotiable and has already been discussed in the Anabolics forum, so please don't comment on that. Let me know if I am missing anything, or could add something very beneficial. Thanks!!!

Growth factor xt.

 

[cbsharpe]

I've got another question for you...what if I just added in Ostarine for 8 weeks? the 4 weeks of PCT plus the 4 extra i plan on doing. Would you recommend Ostarine or Ep1c for my goals? I think I've narrowed it down to those two.

Add both. That is what I'm going to use to bridge over to my next cycle in August. Osta + Ep1c...WIN-WIN!!!

 

[Young Gotti]

fadogia in pct is great...something like tropinol xp is my favorite test booster during pct, another option is bulbine...i prefer these two test boosters over most of the stuff mentioned in this thread including the lgi rehab

 

[TruthWalker]

fadogia in pct is great...something like tropinol xp is my favorite test booster during pct, another option is bulbine...i prefer these two test boosters over most of the stuff mentioned in this thread including the lgi rehab

Cool, I will check into those. Why do you prefer them over rehab? Do they just work better for you? I know that's the obvious answer lol I was just wondering if there was something more specific

 

[Young Gotti]

Cool, I will check into those. Why do you prefer them over rehab? Do they just work better for you? I know that's the obvious answer lol I was just wondering if there was something more specific

actually a second view, lgi rehab's profile doesn't look too bad, i missed some of the ingredients

but i've had great success with fadogia and bulbine as test boosters....ben esgrow also lists fadogia as one of the three ingredients he'd recommend for test boosting, tropinol xp has that along with potassium nitrate, i know ppl see a decrease in pumps when coming off and this handles that as well

he mentions bulbine too and i should have mentioned it but make sure you stay on liver support in pct especially if you decide to do bulbine

 

[jaycuda]

I've got another question for you...what if I just added in Ostarine for 8 weeks? the 4 weeks of PCT plus the 4 extra i plan on doing. Would you recommend Ostarine or Ep1c for my goals? I think I've narrowed it down to those two.

Ep1c during pct imo.

Osta is mildly suppressive so I like to play it safe during PCT. After it, Osta for 6-8 weeks @ 20mg would be great to add a few extra lbs of lbm between cycles.

 

[TruthWalker]

Well, I have decided to go ahead and go for the Osta over the Ep1c. Put in an order for 2 bottles today...my wife will actually be using the other one Due to price, won't be using the Ep1c at this time. So I think I found my replacement for ArA!

 

[Olympus Labs]

Well, I have decided to go ahead and go for the Osta over the Ep1c. Put in an order for 2 bottles today...my wife will actually be using the other one Due to price, won't be using the Ep1c at this time. So I think I found my replacement for ArA!

Not to push it on you, but your wife and you could easily split the bottle of EP1C, 300mg is more than sufficient on a per daily basis.

 

[TruthWalker]

Not to push it on you, but your wife and you could easily split the bottle of EP1C, 300mg is more than sufficient on a per daily basis.

Hmm, not a bad idea! I will run it by her and see what she thinks. Thanks

 

[SwolenONE]

Alphamax is a great product but a bit different then Mass 550. Now they both have AIs however Arimistane seems to be quite potent at lowering estrogen leaving a harder, more vascular physique, on the other hand Mass 550 seems to be more for "building mass". Next up we have Forskolin dosed at 50mg, a dose proven in humans to increase lean body mass while decreasing fat mass. Mass 550 contains Maslinic Acid which certianly does have some interesting studies for protein synthesis done in trout.

We also have 1.4g of Divanill with 300mg L-Dopa, which would be great for both free and total testosterone. I believe Mass 550 contains DAA and fenugreek and were added for there synergistic benefit to the formula in a blend of 550mg.

I like AlphaMax in the context of pct a lot.

 

[Olympus Labs]

Hmm, not a bad idea! I will run it by her and see what she thinks. Thanks

Dermastrength, Str3ngth, Ostar1ne, and ep1c can all be run by females

 

[ELROCK]

actually a second view, lgi rehab's profile doesn't look too bad, i missed some of the ingredients

but i've had great success with fadogia and bulbine as test boosters....ben esgrow also lists fadogia as one of the three ingredients he'd recommend for test boosting, tropinol xp has that along with potassium nitrate, i know ppl see a decrease in pumps when coming off and this handles that as well

he mentions bulbine too and i should have mentioned it but make sure you stay on liver support in pct especially if you decide to do bulbine

Why did you mention stay on liver support with bulbine? Is it known to be harsh on the liver? If so any studies you can link that show this?

Thanks in advance