thanks Jay!!! I agree 100%. There are multiple threads where guys ACTUALLY LOG their daily results. Their numbers speak for themselves. If you have constructive criticism then let's have it, but this is just sounding like LG bashing for the sake of LG bashing to me.
Ok, let me moderate this argument a bit. Yes, 99% of people on this board do love their sups (including myself) and rely on them on a daily basis. Slimcharles has a faulty argument because he has absolutely no data backing his claims, so just ignore him. People like Army Guy, however, do cite data, but it is not at all reliable data. Let me explain why:
Logs do not actually prove anything about a supplement, no matter how detailed they are or how many people are logging a particular product with positive results. I do statistical analysis on climate change and agriculture at my college, and read numerous studies on everything from the environment to world economic trends to personal health and medicine on a daily basis. From my readings on medicine, I can tell you that the placebo effect has ENORMOUS power in all regards to personal health.
To cite one specific example, in 1949 Dr. Stewart Wolf of the Cornell Medical Center investigated the placebo effect in pregnant women affected by nausea. He gave multiple women suffering from nausea a substance that he claimed was a "new, strong, very effective anti-sickness" drug, and in each woman the nausea had completely dissipated within 20 minutes of ingestion. Ironically, This miracle drug was actually Ipecac, a common vomit inducer. It is important to note that each woman had been given Ipecac on several occasions in the weeks prior (but disguised with a different flavor) and vomited on each occasion. In case you were wondering, the flavor of Ipecac has no impact on its effectiveness. (1)
Placebos have proven to hold many other powers, including curing depression and killing pain equally as well as a moderate dose of morphine. The power of placebos has also been correlated to factors such as their cost, hype, and form (ex. sugar water injections are more effective than sugar pills).
So how do we know what really works? Not logs, no sir. Double-blind studies testing a product directly against a placebo of the same form in a highly controlled setting is the only real way to know what works and what doesn't. Unfortunately, 99% of the supplements out there aren't backed by studies at all. The ones that are include whey protein, creatine monohydrate, beta alanine, GPLC, and a few others.
To conclude, you're all wrong. We don't really know if natadrol or prime are placebos or the real deal. We may see increased strength, size, muscle density, etc. while taking them, but the power of the mind to create a reality out of a forgery cannot be overestimated. Just some food for thought.
(1) Wolf S, "Effects of Suggestion and Conditioning on the Action of Chemical Agents in Human Subjects: The Pharmacology of Placebos", Journal of Clinical Investigation 1950 Jan; 29(1):100-09.
