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NADH-“THE” Performance Enhancing Supplement?

Yes, it is cynical. You are right. A character flaw I should improve upon. But by no means, am I defensive with every rep that poses a question about our products. I guess some reps rub me the wrong way. Too cynical, you are right!

:D

I understand your position being a company owner but he really didn't even attempt to discredit your product but just bumped a question asked by another rep probably because it appeared it got passed over. I am surprised you say he rubs you the wrong way, as I feel like that about LOTS of reps on this board but bdcc is actually one of the few I do like.

Anyway best of luck with your products and company bud! Still following along so I can myself learn about the differences between NADPH vs NADH. If I membered correctly cant NADPH be formed from NADH via the the enzyme NNT in a redox reaction?? But then again this might have only been true when working in a lab and not in the human body. I cant really remember for sure (should have payed more attention in class :p ) I am not a huge bio guy and don't pretend to be but I do trust the opinion of aleksandar and will await his comments after you hear back from you chemist Gunnar.


Maybe this will possibly shed some light? Invalid Link Removed
 
Yes...NADPH also can be produced directly from reduced nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NADH) in the presence of NADP+ using the enzyme nicotinomide nucleotide transhydrogenase (NNT) in a redox reaction.

I am sure I was probably overly defensive- and flat out wrong in my assessment. It is something I can certainly work on. My research should never be above reproach, and I am willing to be taken to task.
 
hmmm... I couldnt find anything as far as NADH -> NADPH besides the above link. I also couldnt find anything in regards to NADH and NO production.

I did however find these little tid bits of info..

Physiological responses are modulated by multiple endocrine signaling pathways. As NAD+, endocrine pathways are affected by environmental cues and nutritional factors, suggesting that NAD+ might eventually mediate some endocrine responses and/or vice versa. The possible regulation of longevity by SIRT1 has spurred research into possible interactions of NAD+ signaling and endocrine pathways. Findings in several species have linked endocrine signaling to life span. For example, mutations in many genes of the insulin/IGF-I signaling pathway affect life span in lower eukaryotic organisms (186). Similarly, decreases in IGF-I and insulin signaling prolong life span in mice (187). Interestingly, NAD+-dependent enzymes such as sirtuins are known to influence insulin and IGF-I signaling. The activity of SIRT1 orthologs in different species influences the insulin/IGF signaling pathway at diverse steps (63, 188). In addition, SIRT1 might participate in the regulation of insulin and IGF release (36, 110). Of note, SIRT1 knockout mice are rarely born, but when they are, they overexpress IGF-binding protein-1, which decreases the free levels of IGF-I, rendering a dwarf phenotype. Remarkably, another sirtuin, SIRT6, may also determine serum IGF-I levels (124), although the molecular link between these observations is not clear. It must be mentioned that SIRT1 and SIRT6 knockout mice present multiple abnormalities, which can explain their reduced life span and why reduced IGF-I levels do not promote longevity in this model. In general, the effects of SIRT1 activation have a tendency to oppose those of IGF on longevity, although in the long term or in insulin-resistant states, they might both favor insulin sensitivity through repression of PTP1b (189). It is particularly relevant that sirtuin activity influences FOXO transcriptional activity, which is another evolutionary conserved player in the regulation of life span (190). Insulin/IGF-I negatively regulate FOXO activity through Akt-mediated phosphorylation. Deacetylation of FOXO by sirtuins seems to contribute to target-gene specification and may inhibit insulin-stimulated FOXO1 phosphorylation. Interestingly, insulin/IGF-I action generally increases glycolysis in cells, which should theoretically decrease the NAD+/NADH ratio and, therefore, shut down sirtuin activity. Consequently, it seems likely that SIRT1 and insulin/IGF-I actions negatively regulate each other. Other NAD+-consuming enzymes, such as those of the PARP family, have also been linked to insulin action and secretion. PARP1 activation in the pancreas leads to NAD+ depletion, which compromises ATP levels and insulin secretion (191). Remarkably, PARP1-deficient mice are resistant to streptozotocin-induced β-cell death and diabetes (192, 193). Conversely, in peripheral tissues, insulin (194) and IGF-I (195) action inhibit PARP activity, probably as a way to preserve NAD+ levels. NAD+-consuming enzymes might also regulate the expression and release of other families of growth factors. Specific SIRT1 activating molecules promote a substantial increase in fibroblast growth factor (FGF) 21 expression in the liver (102), probably as a consequence of increased PPARα action (102, 196). This observation was consolidated recently in a mouse model of mild SIRT1 overexpression (197). FGF21 regulation could as such contribute to the positive metabolic effects of SIRT1 activation (198). Of note, FGF21 and FGF23 action have already been linked to aging phenomena because the Klotho family of transmembrane “anti-aging” proteins was demonstrated to work as a crucial coreceptor for FGF-R signaling (199, 200).

Recent findings evidence that endocrine communication and NAD+-consuming enzymes clearly expand beyond insulin/IGF-I and FGF signaling. For example, SIRT1 directly represses DNA binding and transactivation activity of the estrogen and androgen receptors through NAD+-dependent deacetylation (201, 202), clearly suggesting that metabolism may directly modulate ligand-induced hormone signaling. Similarly, PARP1 can bind at the promoter of SMARCB1, a member of the SWI/SNF complex that modulates steroid sensitivity (203). In addition, PARP1 seems to participate in the regulation of estradiol target genes by forming part of a transcriptional “activation” complex together with TopoIIβ (204). Intracellular lipid signaling also seems to be closely related to NAD+ consuming proteins, through the modulation of PPARγ activity. SIRT1 negatively regulates PPARγ by docking with its cofactors NCoR and SMRT (108). Interestingly, another NAD+-consuming protein, PARP2, positively regulates PPARγ activity (205). These observations suggest a model where NAD+ consumption through competing enzymes (SIRT1 and PARP2) may provide opposite outcomes on commonly regulated targets. Together, these findings imply that we may be at the tip of the iceberg in our understanding of possible cross-regulation between NAD+-consuming enzymes and hormone action, providing potential molecular mechanisms on how metabolism or stress situations can modulate hormone sensitivity.

Invalid Link Removed

B, Schematic description of the malate/aspartate NAD(H)-redox shuttle. The NADH that is produced in the cytosol, for instance during glycolysis, is first converted into malate via cytosolic NAD+-linked malate dehydrogenase (mMDHNAD), after which the malate is transported into the mitochondria in exchange for 2-oxoglutarate (20G). Intramitochondrial malate is then converted into oxaloacetate (OAA), during which NADH is generated, which can now be used in the respiratory chain (RC) with formation of ATP

Source - Invalid Link Removed

NADH stimulates endogenous dopamine biosynthesis by enhancing the recycling of tetrahydrobiopterin in rat phaeochromocytoma cells.
Vrecko K, Storga D, Birkmayer JG, Möller R, Tafeit E, Horejsi R, Reibnegger G.
SourceInstitute for Medical Chemistry and Pregl Laboratory, KF University of Graz, Austria.

Abstract
Treatment of Parkinson patients with L-DOPA (3,4-dihydroxy-L-phenylalanine) leads to endproduct inhibition of tyrosine hydroxylase, the key enzyme in dopamine biosynthesis and the enzyme needing tetrahydrobiopterin and iron as cofactors. To overcome this problem an alternative treatment was investigated which attempted to stimulate endogenous dopamine biosynthesis. Incubation of rat PC 12 cells with NADH (beta-nicotinamide adeninedinucleotide) leads to increased dopamine production. We investigated the possibility that this increase of dopamine biosynthesis was due to stimulation of quinonoid dihydropteridine reductase, the enzyme which recycles the inactive dihydrobiopterin to the active tetrahydrobiopterin. The experiments showed that whereas NADH is able to increase dopamine production in PC 12 cells (rat phaeochromocytoma cells, clone PC 12) up to three-fold, no influence is exerted by NADH on pteridine metabolism; neither are tetrahydrobiopterin concentrations nor the de novo-biosynthesis of pteridines from guanosine triphosphate altered by NADH. Further no influence of NADH on protein de novo synthesis of quinonoid dihydropteridine reductase was observed. However, NADH was able to directly increase the catalytic activity of this enzyme. Our results suggest that the stimulation of dopamine biosynthesis by NADH is due to more rapid regeneration of quinonoid dihydrobiopterin to tetrahydrobiopterin.

PMID:9247090

Effects of NADH on dopamine release in rat striatum.
Pearl SM, Antion MD, Stanwood GD, Jaumotte JD, Kapatos G, Zigmond MJ.
SourceDepartments of Neurology and Psychiatry, University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15213, USA.

Abstract
Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NADH) may be utilized for the synthesis and regeneration of tetrahydrobiopterin (BH(4)), which in turn is an essential cofactor for tyrosine hydroxylase, the rate-limiting enzyme in the synthesis of dopamine (DA). NADH has been reported to relieve some of the symptoms of Parkinson's disease, presumably by altering dopaminergic function. The present study examines the efficacy of NADH in influencing DA activity in the rat striatum. In striatal slices, NADH (350 microM) significantly increased basal DA and DOPAC efflux and caused a 2-fold increase in the DA overflow evoked by high KCl (25 mM). Tissue levels of BH(4), basal BH(4) efflux, and KCl-evoked BH(4) overflow were unaffected by NADH, as was [(3)H]DA uptake into striatal synaptosomes. In contrast to the effects of NADH on DA function in vitro, no effects were observed when NADH was administered systemically. NADH (10 or 100 mg/kg, s.c.) did not influence the tissue content of DA, 5-HT, or their metabolites in the midbrain or striatum, nor did it alter DA extracellular concentrations. These results indicate that NADH can increase DA release from striatal slices, although we are as yet unable to detect this effect in vivo.

Copyright 2000 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

PMID:10767056

Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NADH)--a new therapeutic approach to Parkinson's disease. Comparison of oral and parenteral application.
Birkmayer JG, Vrecko C, Volc D, Birkmayer W.
SourceBirkmayer-Institut für Parkinsontherapie Vienna, Austria.

Abstract
The reduced coenzyme nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NADH) has been used as medication in 885 parkinsonian patients in an open label trial. About half of the patients received NADH by intravenous infusion, the other part orally by capsules. In about 80% of the patients a beneficial clinical effect was observed: 19.3% of the patients showed a very good (30-50%) improvement of disability, 58.8% a moderate (10-30%) improvement. 21.8% did not respond to NADH. Statistical analysis of the improvement in correlation with the disability prior to treatment, the duration of the disease and the age of the patients revealed the following results: All these 3 parameters have a significant although weak influence on the improvement. The disability before the treatment has a positive regression coefficient (t value < 0.01). The duration of the disease has a negative regression coefficient (< 0.01) and so has the age a negative regression coefficient (t value < 0.05). In other words younger patients and patients with a shorter duration of disease have a better chance to gain a marked improvement than older patients and patients with longer duration of the disease. The orally applied form of NADH yielded an overall improvement in the disability which was comparable to that of the parenterally applied form.

PMID:8101414
 
I am sure I was probably overly defensive- and flat out wrong in my assessment. It is something I can certainly work on. My research should never be above reproach, and I am willing to be taken to task.

Reps for this!!

Now I am off to bed because it is passed my curfew :p
 
And while I can appreciate a member on the boards advocating for the community, please be careful if you are a board rep going after our credibility and research, because I can play those games too. Ask the rep who "pimps" an NO boosting product that is scientifically proven to INHIBIT eNOS. If you want to play the "I can make that other company look stupid game" then I can play it too. So tread lightly bdcc, for you have no idea what my background is and my capability to poke major holes in your science as well. But that is not productive at all is it?! For either of us.

But from members I welcome that questions/ concerns/ cynicism, etc.

And I do believe that YOUR agenda is credible, but I find it all too convenient when a board rep from another company is truly "interested" or "concerned" about our formula.

I don't go around questioning products from competitors whose only scientific data comes from rat studies in India! I'll let you figure that one out- that is the beauty of this community.

:D

I understand your position being a company owner but he really didn't even attempt to discredit your product but just bumped a question asked by another rep probably because it appeared it got passed over. I am surprised you say he rubs you the wrong way, as I feel like that about LOTS of reps on this board but bdcc is actually one of the few I do like.

I bumped a question because I was curious to the answer as it appeared you glossed over it and I had no idea that NADH was something that degraded quickly, not because I am trying to discredit a formula.

"Tread lightly BDCC", "some reps rub me up the wrong way"? I bumped a question posed by a rep for another company and you appear to be threatening me with tread lightly comments?

Just in case you weren't sure my company and yours have no products with rival MOAs. If you want to prod around at PES science I am more than happy to discuss it with you. When people ask us about it I am also more than happy to admit where the flaws in science are and if there are holes in the science that the beta testing phases are more than adequate to ensure the incomplete science can transfer into real world results.

There are a million and one ways I could have responded to something that appears to be threatening and instead I shall leave with the following comments.

1) I am not someone who has ever been involved in a rep war
2) If I did not have a company signature I would react very differently
3) You are welcome to question my motives but keep in mind that it is you who appears unprofessional with flippant comments like that
4) If you have questions about PES products, even cynical ones, please feel free to start a thread and I will answer them where I can
5) For the record, if ANY rep from ANY company finds holes in the PES science and wants to debate the real world application of them please feel free, we have nothing to hide, are completely transparent in our research (if it is a rat study we make a point of showing that) and, unlike how this thread has gone you will not get any form of negativity towards you from myself and you will not get any "tread lightly" posts. Any scepticism will be treated respect, as I would expect another company to do the same towards me.
6) I said Aleks was an asset to the board because his educational background allows him to make points that I simply never knew. He is far more educated than myself and I like to learn from people like this. If I was going to try and slag any product it would be one from Judo's company because we share the same ingredient! Instead, last time one of those happened I made sure it was diffused because it was getting unprofessional on both sides.

Honestly, I am dumbfounded I received the comments I did. If I ever come across like that to anyone else, whether they are from a company or not, someone please PM me and point out how hostile I am being and I will apologise formally for acting unprofessionally.

Ben
 
I bumped a question because I was curious to the answer as it appeared you glossed over it and I had no idea that NADH was something that degraded quickly, not because I am trying to discredit a formula.

"Tread lightly BDCC", "some reps rub me up the wrong way"? I bumped a question posed by a rep for another company and you appear to be threatening me with tread lightly comments?

Just in case you weren't sure my company and yours have no products with rival MOAs. If you want to prod around at PES science I am more than happy to discuss it with you. When people ask us about it I am also more than happy to admit where the flaws in science are and if there are holes in the science that the beta testing phases are more than adequate to ensure the incomplete science can transfer into real world results.

There are a million and one ways I could have responded to something that appears to be threatening and instead I shall leave with the following comments.

1) I am not someone who has ever been involved in a rep war
2) If I did not have a company signature I would react very differently
3) You are welcome to question my motives but keep in mind that it is you who appears unprofessional with flippant comments like that
4) If you have questions about PES products, even cynical ones, please feel free to start a thread and I will answer them where I can
5) For the record, if ANY rep from ANY company finds holes in the PES science and wants to debate the real world application of them please feel free, we have nothing to hide, are completely transparent in our research (if it is a rat study we make a point of showing that) and, unlike how this thread has gone you will not get any form of negativity towards you from myself and you will not get any "tread lightly" posts. Any scepticism will be treated respect, as I would expect another company to do the same towards me.
6) I said Aleks was an asset to the board because his educational background allows him to make points that I simply never knew. He is far more educated than myself and I like to learn from people like this. If I was going to try and slag any product it would be one from Judo's company because we share the same ingredient! Instead, last time one of those happened I made sure it was diffused because it was getting unprofessional on both sides.

Honestly, I am dumbfounded I received the comments I did. If I ever come across like that to anyone else, whether they are from a company or not, someone please PM me and point out how hostile I am being and I will apologise formally for acting unprofessionally.

Ben

Reps on spread bro
 
:D

I understand your position being a company owner but he really didn't even attempt to discredit your product but just bumped a question asked by another rep probably because it appeared it got passed over. I am surprised you say he rubs you the wrong way, as I feel like that about LOTS of reps on this board but bdcc is actually one of the few I do like.

Anyway best of luck with your products and company bud! Still following along so I can myself learn about the differences between NADPH vs NADH. If I membered correctly cant NADPH be formed from NADH via the the enzyme NNT in a redox reaction?? But then again this might have only been true when working in a lab and not in the human body. I cant really remember for sure (should have payed more attention in class :p ) I am not a huge bio guy and don't pretend to be but I do trust the opinion of aleksandar and will await his comments after you hear back from you chemist Gunnar.


Maybe this will possibly shed some light? Invalid Link Removed


what bout me boss?:D
 
bdcc said:
I bumped a question because I was curious to the answer as it appeared you glossed over it and I had no idea that NADH was something that degraded quickly, not because I am trying to discredit a formula.

"Tread lightly BDCC", "some reps rub me up the wrong way"? I bumped a question posed by a rep for another company and you appear to be threatening me with tread lightly comments?

Just in case you weren't sure my company and yours have no products with rival MOAs. If you want to prod around at PES science I am more than happy to discuss it with you. When people ask us about it I am also more than happy to admit where the flaws in science are and if there are holes in the science that the beta testing phases are more than adequate to ensure the incomplete science can transfer into real world results.

There are a million and one ways I could have responded to something that appears to be threatening and instead I shall leave with the following comments.

1) I am not someone who has ever been involved in a rep war
2) If I did not have a company signature I would react very differently
3) You are welcome to question my motives but keep in mind that it is you who appears unprofessional with flippant comments like that
4) If you have questions about PES products, even cynical ones, please feel free to start a thread and I will answer them where I can
5) For the record, if ANY rep from ANY company finds holes in the PES science and wants to debate the real world application of them please feel free, we have nothing to hide, are completely transparent in our research (if it is a rat study we make a point of showing that) and, unlike how this thread has gone you will not get any form of negativity towards you from myself and you will not get any "tread lightly" posts. Any scepticism will be treated respect, as I would expect another company to do the same towards me.
6) I said Aleks was an asset to the board because his educational background allows him to make points that I simply never knew. He is far more educated than myself and I like to learn from people like this. If I was going to try and slag any product it would be one from Judo's company because we share the same ingredient! Instead, last time one of those happened I made sure it was diffused because it was getting unprofessional on both sides.

Honestly, I am dumbfounded I received the comments I did. If I ever come across like that to anyone else, whether they are from a company or not, someone please PM me and point out how hostile I am being and I will apologise formally for acting unprofessionally.

Ben

Ben

I am very sorry.

One of my first posts on AM.com I was attached personally in a post, being called a troll and a spammer, and he went on and on, really out of left field. Now thus was only 1 rep from 1 company, but to be honest my impression was " this is how we work with fellow supp companies on the board? Attack their integrity openly.". So I need to learn that every rep on here doesn't have a malicious motive. It was just an unexpected "welcoming" .

I suppose what rubbed me the wrong way was your lauding of Aleksandar37 after he just ripped my post and called it bull****. But I completely misunderstood your motives, and I apologize again for my posts.
 
Yes...NADPH also can be produced directly from reduced nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NADH) in the presence of NADP+ using the enzyme nicotinomide nucleotide transhydrogenase (NNT) in a redox reaction.

Sort of...NADPH can be produced from NADP+ in the presence of NADH....there is a difference. Also, you still have not addressed this quote: "It is critical-essential-non negotiable-in conversion of Arginine to no and tyrosine to l-dopa; as well as very important in the creation of ATP."

If it is "critical-essential-non negotiable" then please show me the reaction you speak of.

I suppose what rubbed me the wrong way was your lauding of Aleksandar37 after he just ripped my post and called it bull****. But I completely misunderstood your motives, and I apologize again for my posts.

I "ripped" your post because it was full of false information. And I called that quote by Malinski bull****, not your post. I posted facts and if you feel what you posted was correct, then please provide something to back it up. To be honest, I've been holding back on my complete feelings on this, but if you want me to "rip" your post, I can :)
 
.....If I was going to try and slag any product it would be one from Judo's company because we share the same ingredient!

:eek:

SAY WHHAAATT!!!















FREE TEST ROCKS!!!! Invalid Link Removed



:p








what bout me boss?:D

you can always buy my love with reduce XT ;)...

j/k you aint too shabby either homeslice
 
:eek:

SAY WHHAAATT!!!















FREE TEST ROCKS!!!! Invalid Link Removed



:p










you can always buy my love with reduce XT ;)...

j/k you aint too shabby either homeslice

And you can buy my love with Drive and IGF2. I will be expecting them in the mail tomorrow. Thanks bro much love.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
but if you want me to "rip" your post, I can :)

No thank you. I have has a good dose of humility for the week already. I understand where you are coming from. Let's focus on Arginine to no, much more difficult to show, and I up to the challenge! Tyrosine to l-dopa is well established and I have the abstracts online.

Give me a day or so to buttress my assertions.

I have a few gifts for you Alexsandar but you have to go to Health Kick to pick them up. Next time you are Orlando, they will be waiting for you.

Ok, be patient with me, it is a good conversation to keep going and I will supply better data shortly.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
Is it 3 dudes with bats? lol

Hah!

No. Some product goodies....
 
I find this banter fascinating. I don't understand half of it, but keep it coming. It's almost like watching Jerry Springer or Maury.
 
I suppose what rubbed me the wrong way was your lauding of Aleksandar37 after he just ripped my post and called it bull****. But I completely misunderstood your motives, and I apologize again for my posts.

I have a feeling you do not know the credentials Aleksandar37 has outside of the internet. He isn't an armchair scientist or an aspiring scientist, he is a real, very advanced, extremely educated scientist who could teach all of us a thing or two.

He is speaking on a professional level based on real science.

He doesn't just copy and paste things from Invalid Link Removed like you have been doing in your posts. Dont forget to cite your sources (Invalid Link Removed)

Quit being so defensive. This is a forum.
 
I wrote something I really wanted to send.......and then I deleted it. I am not taking the bait.

I will respond in time with my research that buttresses my assertion that NADH will increase NO.

Until that time-you have a wonderful day nattydisaster.


I have a feeling you do not know the credentials Aleksandar37 has outside of the internet. He isn't an armchair scientist or an aspiring scientist, he is a real, very advanced, extremely educated scientist who could teach all of us a thing or two.

He is speaking on a professional level based on real science.

He doesn't just copy and paste things from Invalid Link Removed like you have been doing in your posts. Dont forget to cite your sources (Invalid Link Removed)

Quit being so defensive. This is a forum.
 
I wrote something I really wanted to send.......and then I deleted it. I am not taking the bait.

I will respond in time with my research that buttresses my assertion that NADH will increase NO.

Until that time-you have a wonderful day nattydisaster.

If you would, please address also your belief that NADH is stable enough to be stored at room temp and withstand digestion to make it into the blood stream. I don't believe NADH increases eNOS expression of NO, but I also have some concerns about whether any NADH is even reaching the eNOS. Not an attack, just valid concerns because if it doesn't, you can save cash by not including it in the products.

Thanks,
-Alex
 
I have a feeling you do not know the credentials Aleksandar37 has outside of the internet. He isn't an armchair scientist or an aspiring scientist, he is a real, very advanced, extremely educated scientist who could teach all of us a thing or two.

He is speaking on a professional level based on real science.

translation.. Alex is pure awesome-sauce! :bling:
 
I am still waiting to hear back from the formulator- my partner- to see if he has better information that what we had gathered initially. But until that time I have some content below that touches on NAHD's potential role in NO release/ production.

Of all of the research that went into our Cabergolean White Paper, NADH’s “alleged” conversion of arginine to NO was the most scientifically controversial. I understand that. I understood that when the White Paper was written.

I am not going to focus on NADH’s role in the conversion of L-tyrosine to L-dopa, nor its well documented ability to increase ATP- but I will focus on the controversial ability to increase NO via NADH.

Much of the research around the impact of NADH on NO has come from Dr George Birkmayer. “Dr. Birkmayer is the widely respected researcher and physician who first discovered the application of NADH in cellular development and energy transmission.”

His book NADH: The Biological Hydrogen – The Secret of Our Life Energy is available to read at the link below.

Invalid Link Removed

So when Dr Birkmayer states in the video we have on our site, or in print on at least a-half-a-dozen websites, that Dr Malinksi from the Univeristy of Ohio called him personally to let him know that “NADH increases NO production ten times better than ANY substance he has ever tested” I take him at his word. I mean, if Dr Malinski did NOT state this, why would Dr Birkmayer state this fairly ubiquitously on the web? Would not he be mindful of blatantly misrepresenting a peer in such a public forum?

Dr Malinski's profile:
Invalid Link Removed
Dr Birkmayer's video
Invalid Link Removed

Below are some research abstracts that touch on NADH's potential role in the increase in NO:

NADH augments blood flow in physiologically activated retina and visual cortex
“These findings support an important role for cytosolic free NADH in fueling a signaling cascade that increases NO production”

Activation of NAD(P)H:quinone oxidoreductase ameliorates spontaneous hypertension in an animal model via modulation of eNOS activity
“This study is the first to demonstrate that NQO1 activation has a hypotensive effect mediated by eNOS activation via cellular NAD+/NADH ratio modulation in an animal model.”

NADH: sensor of blood flow need in brain, muscle, and other tissues
"Electrons carried by. NADH, in addition to fueling ATP synthesis, also fuel redox signaling pathways to augment blood flow in resting and working tissues. These novel findings are fundamental to understanding blood-flow physiology and pathology. Observations in all experimental paradigms support the hypothesis that accumulation of electrons in NADH signals blood-flow need and regulates flow in resting and working tissues.
Chronic or frequent elevations of NADH may stimulate new vessel growth as in muscle, (and) in brain by neural activity.
This finding suggests that accumulation of electrons in NADH mediates panic disorder as well as increased blood flow."

Activation of NAD(P)H:quinone oxidoreductase ameliorates spontaneous hypertension in an animal model via modulation of eNOS activity.
"β-Lapachone (βL), a well-known substrate of NAD(P)H:quinone oxidoreductase (NQO1), increases the cellular NAD(+)/NADH ratio and concentration of free Ca(2+) ([Ca(2+)]i), and resulted in Akt/AMP-activated protein kinase/eNOS activation."

Nitric oxide in myocardial ischemia/reperfusion injury
"..high NADH concentration is capable of producing NO from nitrite."

Nitric oxide: biology and pathobiology
"Adding the XOR substrate xanthine or NADH augmented NO production by 57% or 37% respectively."
 
Additionally, the NADH we include in our Cabergolean and ERGO-BLITZ is absolutely stable unless exposed to excessive heat and/ or moisture- per our chemist.
 
These appear to be the books you are referencing and here are the sections on NO

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed
 
NADH augments blood flow in physiologically activated retina and visual cortex
“These findings support an important role for cytosolic free NADH in fueling a signaling cascade that increases NO production”

Activation of NAD(P)H:quinone oxidoreductase ameliorates spontaneous hypertension in an animal model via modulation of eNOS activity
“This study is the first to demonstrate that NQO1 activation has a hypotensive effect mediated by eNOS activation via cellular NAD+/NADH ratio modulation in an animal model.”

NADH: sensor of blood flow need in brain, muscle, and other tissues
"Electrons carried by. NADH, in addition to fueling ATP synthesis, also fuel redox signaling pathways to augment blood flow in resting and working tissues. These novel findings are fundamental to understanding blood-flow physiology and pathology. Observations in all experimental paradigms support the hypothesis that accumulation of electrons in NADH signals blood-flow need and regulates flow in resting and working tissues.
Chronic or frequent elevations of NADH may stimulate new vessel growth as in muscle, (and) in brain by neural activity.
This finding suggests that accumulation of electrons in NADH mediates panic disorder as well as increased blood flow."

Activation of NAD(P)H:quinone oxidoreductase ameliorates spontaneous hypertension in an animal model via modulation of eNOS activity.
"β-Lapachone (βL), a well-known substrate of NAD(P)H:quinone oxidoreductase (NQO1), increases the cellular NAD(+)/NADH ratio and concentration of free Ca(2+) ([Ca(2+)]i), and resulted in Akt/AMP-activated protein kinase/eNOS activation."

Nitric oxide in myocardial ischemia/reperfusion injury
"..high NADH concentration is capable of producing NO from nitrite."

Nitric oxide: biology and pathobiology
"Adding the XOR substrate xanthine or NADH augmented NO production by 57% or 37% respectively."

These papers suggest that NADH may play a role in regulation of blood flow via eNOS, but do NOT suggest that supplementation with NADH will itself activate eNOS.

For example: "β-Lapachone (βL), a well-known substrate of NAD(P)H:quinone oxidoreductase (NQO1), increases the cellular NAD(+)/NADH ratio and concentration of free Ca(2+) ([Ca(2+)]i), and resulted in Akt/AMP-activated protein kinase/eNOS activation."

That suggests that β-Lapachone increase eNOS activation...you're not selling β-Lapachone.

Please send or posts full papers or at least full abstracts. I don't have the time to look up all of these on my own and posting partial sentences from papers is misleading.
 
I tried ordering this for some of my prisoners to try before I let my Generals supplement but ran into an issue,

Do you ship to North Korea sir?
 
Royd The Noyd said:
Well.... That's the explanation?

Really? I just gave you the answer, explanation of what? Industry ignorance? Show me data that suggests otherwise. Show me a study that shows the amount of degradation at x temperature over y period if time. Prove what you are saying is correct and not just tribal knowledge or bro science!
 
ax1 said:
I tried ordering this for some of my prisoners to try before I let my Generals supplement but ran into an issue,

Do you ship to North Korea sir?

Yes fearless leader we do....
 
Really? I just gave you the answer, explanation of what? Industry ignorance? Show me data that suggests otherwise. Show me a study that shows the amount of degradation at x temperature over y period if time. Prove what you are saying is correct and not just tribal knowledge or bro science!

The reason you posted was that your chemist said so. I thought you were going to post evidence as to why he feels its stable. Not because "he said it is, so it is". Did I miss other information?
 
Aleksandar37 said:
Because he sells an NADH product. And yes he would and yes he is.

And risk being outed as a fraud in academia circles? He said this years no researcher, including Dr Malinski has ever refuted that claim?

I will trust a PhD and MD in Molecular Biology before I trust the top bro scientists on any forum. You won't? I can tell you I have a Masters in Biochem and you'll just take my word as gospel because I said those were my credentials on a BB forum?
 
Royd The Noyd said:
The reason you posted was that your chemist said so. I thought you were going to post evidence as to why he feels its stable. Not because "he said it is, so it is". Did I miss other information?

You post your chemists info or a vendors info that states that NADH will degrade- unequivocally- at x temp. That is true BS my friend. The burden of proof is not on my team!
 
My dear friends of AnabolicMinds.com

I have in my possession a copy of the actual research that was done by Dr Malinski's team that shows NADH's ability to increase NO, entitled "Stimulation of NO Synthesis by NADH". This research will substantiate all of my claims!

The facts are NADH does play a role in NO synthesis and my products Cabergolean and ERGO-BLITZ include NADH in their NO boosting matrix.

You want to significantly increase your GH levels and NO levels? Then look no further than Cabergolean!

You want to increase ATP production, VO2 max, NO, and muscular endurance? Then look no further then our ERGO-BLITZ. You wanted the research? Well I have it! But first I will dance a jig naked in my office and upload it to YouTube( link to follow later).

My partner, who is a brilliant researcher in his own right, got a hold of this info.....somehow....and I will share it after I get done working off some of the stress I have built up over thus issue.

Let me say, I absolutely appreciate and understand where you are coming from! As a researcher, athlete, consumer- you have every right to demand these answers and I apologize about being defensive along the way. I really do. I am happy to be a part of this community.

And even after I present this proof I know people will still be cynical and find fault in our products- but it won't be because we did not do our part to present the truth accurately.

Thanks,
 
You post your chemists info or a vendors info that states that NADH will degrade- unequivocally- at x temp. That is true BS my friend. The burden of proof is not on my team!

Due to how you speak to the people on this board, the gloves are now off.

You posted your chemist's opinion. This is tantamount to me looking at an expired bottle of Advil and saying, "it's probably still good."

I told you that Sigma Aldrich says to store it at -20 C. I want to hear from the chemist that is supplying you with this. You're selling the ****, so the burden is on you! You can keep shouting these lies, but that doesn't make it true.

After your first post you didn't know why I was mentioning Parkinson's and Alzheimer's, which was in your first post. That leads me to believe that you just blindly copy and pasted from the company website without reading your own damn post.

You then go on to copy and paste a quote from the web that NADPH and NADH work together and pass it off as your own...you also left out the part that this only occurs in mitochondria and bacteria...not very useful for eNOS it it?

I'm done with this dance. I have disagreed with other people who have products that focus on NO and we agreed to disagree because they cited their sources from peer-reviewed journals. You post the titles of journal articles that have nothing to do with your argument and post excerpts from a book by some hippie doc who happens to sell NADH!

You come on here and expect us to all swallow what you're selling and then get upset when somebody points out that you're wrong. Just because it was tweeted, does not make it true!

Best of luck...adios
 
Aleksandar37 said:
Due to how you speak to the people on this board, the gloves are now off.

You posted your chemist's opinion. This is tantamount to me looking at an expired bottle of Advil and saying, "it's probably still good."

I told you that Sigma Aldrich says to store it at -20 C. I want to hear from the chemist that is supplying you with this. You're selling the ****, so the burden is on you! You can keep shouting these lies, but that doesn't make it true.

After your first post you didn't know why I was mentioning Parkinson's and Alzheimer's, which was in your first post. That leads me to believe that you just blindly copy and pasted from the company website without reading your own damn post.

You then go on to copy and paste a quote from the web that NADPH and NADH work together and pass it off as your own...you also left out the part that this only occurs in mitochondria and bacteria...not very useful for eNOS it it?

I'm done with this dance. I have disagreed with other people who have products that focus on NO and we agreed to disagree because they cited their sources from peer-reviewed journals. You post the titles of journal articles that have nothing to do with your argument and post excerpts from a book by some hippie doc who happens to sell NADH!

You come on here and expect us to all swallow what you're selling and then get upset when somebody points out that you're wrong. Just because it was tweeted, does not make it true!

Best of luck...adios

I won't disagree with anything you have said!

I have the evidence now and you are to thank. Sincerely! You had every right to throw out the challenge flag and sat "bs wIt a minute!"

Every right!

The info I have is nowhere on the web, and I presume that I am one of a few people on the planet who have this info and even know it exists.

I will present it later....if anyone even cares?

Hey , maybe I am an a-hole, but put yourself in my shoes and you let me know how professional you would be with some of the feedback I received?

Anyway, the products work as "marketed" and if anyone cares I will post it later.
 
The data I have is not very palatable. It is in the form of a 13 page powerpoint. Below is pic of the NO releasing path with NADH and one of the slides from the presentation. Also- there are some other reasons that I may not share the entire presentation at this time. But this information came from Dr Malinski's research on NADH.

Again, I am not trying to "show anyone up", this is just a response for data that was requested.

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And the title...that is all I have for now.

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Here is the study in its entirety.

As an aside- our Cabergolean (w/NADH) is normally $49.99, but until October 21st it is only $34.99 and after your AM50 discount of 50% is only $17.50! With all of the discounts applied to our ERGO-BLITZ (w/NADH) the price is only $14.50 until October 21st!

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Final 2 slides...

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Subbed. Fascinating stuff. Im really starting to learn quite a bit more on NO and ATP production ....really cool information.
 
This is from the manufacturer of our NADH located in Japan.

I apologize for the delayed response regarding the storage conditions of NADH in a finished product form. I've been informed by my QA that since NADH is hygroscopic and unstable under very high humidity conditions, they recommend keeping the finished product including NADH under low humidity conditions. Extreme temperatures may affect NADH as well.

I hope that helps.
 
This is from the manufacturer of our NADH located in Japan.

I apologize for the delayed response regarding the storage conditions of NADH in a finished product form. I've been informed by my QA that since NADH is hygroscopic and unstable under very high humidity conditions, they recommend keeping the finished product including NADH under low humidity conditions. Extreme temperatures may affect NADH as well.

I hope that helps.

Hence the reason for those little moisture absorbent bags in the bottle that keep getting in my way. ;) :D
 
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