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morning grogginess...

JudoJosh

JudoJosh

Pro Virili Parte
I am always tired in the morning no matter how much sleep I get I hit the snooze button at least 3 times but when I truely dont get enough sleep it is like 6 or 7 times I hit snooze..

I have always been like this, I hate mornings, more specifically I hate waking up, I always want to go back to bed.

I am looking for a sup to help combat this, something that when I hear my alarm clock I am wide awake and just pop out of bed. I currently take ZMA and it is good but I feel I just get a deeper sleep with it, doesnt help with the getting up part..

any suggestions besides stop being lazy?
 
anything that I can find at a health food store?? Looking to get something like tomorow even if it isnt the greastest thing just to help for now.. I have been reading reviews and this x-dreams looks real good but is out of stock..
 
You may want to give Melatonin a try, its cheap and really effective. Look for 3mg tabs and take them only a few nights a week. If you can find the sublingual ones they will put you to sleep really fast and if you get the normal ones you will still notice it. Also when you wake up get as much light as possible, have your lights on and curtains open.
 
JudoJosh said:
I am always tired in the morning no matter how much sleep I get I hit the snooze button at least 3 times but when I truely dont get enough sleep it is like 6 or 7 times I hit snooze..

I have always been like this, I hate mornings, more specifically I hate waking up, I always want to go back to bed.

I am looking for a sup to help combat this, something that when I hear my alarm clock I am wide awake and just pop out of bed. I currently take ZMA and it is good but I feel I just get a deeper sleep with it, doesnt help with the getting up part..

any suggestions besides stop being lazy?
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I need ideas for this too....I actually get around 8-9 hours a night, which is ridiculously high compared to a lot of people. I have tried many sleep supplements and prescriptions:

-melatonin
-tryptophan
-ZMA
-Carboxy
-GABA
-Ambien
-Ambien CR
-Etc

I still feel like ass!! Maybe I should do a sleep study...
 
Instead of covering up the issue with a supp, maybe you should look into the actual reason for this? It's not normal to feel like this especially if you say it happens no matter how much sleep you get.

Talk to you doc, get a sleep study done, and look into your adrenals (24-hr cortisol test).

It doesn't sound like you have insomnia, so taking sleep aids aren't going to help.
 
Gutterpump said:
Instead of covering up the issue with a supp, maybe you should look into the actual reason for this? It's not normal to feel like this especially if you say it happens no matter how much sleep you get.

Talk to you doc, get a sleep study done, and look into your adrenals (24-hr cortisol test).

It doesn't sound like you have insomnia, so taking sleep aids aren't going to help.
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Thank you. What kind of Dr should I go to?

Does a sleep include checking your adrenal hormones?
 
Kc2554 said:
I need ideas for this too....I actually get around 8-9 hours a night, which is ridiculously high compared to a lot of people. I have tried many sleep supplements and prescriptions:

-melatonin
-tryptophan
-ZMA
-Carboxy
-GABA
-Ambien
-Ambien CR
-Etc

I still feel like ass!! Maybe I should do a sleep study...
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yea i tried zma and the ambiens.. i think they are more for people who have problems getting to sleep and staying asleep, I dont have that problem, once im out im out.. my problem is waking up I sleep though the whole night fine
 
JudoJosh said:
yea i tried zma and the ambiens.. i think they are more for people who have problems getting to sleep and staying asleep, I dont have that problem, once im out im out.. my problem is waking up I sleep though the whole night fine
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I get up around 1-3 times a night. I believe my issue stems from very shallow sleep. The Ambien (and other sleep drugs) is supposed to give you deeper REM sleep, and replenish your body's ATP stores (I think thats how it works).
 
A sleep study will check for quality of sleep, and for sleep apnea, which is treatable.

A 24-hr cortisol test for your adrenals can be done through your regular dr, or you can order a salivary test, or urine test online for about $100-150.
 
leave a glass of water and your favorite mild stim next to your bed and pop it the first time your alarm goes off. have another alarm set to go off like 20 minutes later or so, then you just fall back asleep for that 20 minutes and when the second alarm goes off you will wake up much more alert and ready to start your day. give it a try, might want to set your first alarm to go off a little earlier then normal so when your second alarm goes off its actually the normal time your supposed to get up.
 
heebs10 said:
leave a glass of water and your favorite mild stim next to your bed and pop it the first time your alarm goes off. have another alarm set to go off like 20 minutes later or so, then you just fall back asleep for that 20 minutes and when the second alarm goes off you will wake up much more alert and ready to start your day. give it a try, might want to set your first alarm to go off a little earlier then normal so when your second alarm goes off its actually the normal time your supposed to get up.
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Yes, I have done this before many times. I feel like it is a very band aide type solution, and I would like to get to the root.
 
The best test is the saliva test for cortisol. 4 samples in 1 day. That way you can chart the behaviour of your adrenals through the day.

If you need to be more alert in the morning, sticking your head under super cold water (using the tap in your shower) will do you more good than any amount of coffee. I used this method for a long time when I got burnt out from drinking 4 pots of coffee a day after college. Nothing better than shockingly cold water.
 
Gutterpump said:
The best test is the saliva test for cortisol. 4 samples in 1 day. That way you can chart the behaviour of your adrenals through the day.

If you need to be more alert in the morning, sticking your head under super cold water (using the tap in your shower) will do you more good than any amount of coffee. I used this method for a long time when I got burnt out from drinking 4 pots of coffee a day after college. Nothing better than shockingly cold water.
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I have not had any direct caffeine in about 3.5 weeks, and I feel AWESOME!!!

Can I get the cortisol saliva tests without having to go the Dr?
 
yeah you can order it online. Search: 'saliva test cortisol' and you should find something.

I've got a great source for online testing as well..You pay them, and they have a Dr consult with results after you send the test kit back.

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Gutterpump said:
Instead of covering up the issue with a supp, maybe you should look into the actual reason for this? It's not normal to feel like this especially if you say it happens no matter how much sleep you get.

Talk to you doc, get a sleep study done, and look into your adrenals (24-hr cortisol test).

It doesn't sound like you have insomnia, so taking sleep aids aren't going to help.
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I agree with this...your cortisol levels might actually be too low, which can cause morning grogginess. Might also be related adrenal fatigue.
 
dsade said:
I agree with this...your cortisol levels might actually be too low, which can cause morning grogginess. Might also be related adrenal fatigue.
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Really?? I had it wrong...I thought that shallow sleep was caused by high cortisol?
 
Kc2554 said:
Really?? I had it wrong...I thought that shallow sleep was caused by high cortisol?
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Shallow sleep and morning grogginess are not necessarily related.
 
Kc2554 said:
Really?? I had it wrong...I thought that shallow sleep was caused by high cortisol?
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Cortisol can 'sputter' and spike too early in the morning or at irregular times (between 4 and 6 am it can peak, causing you to wake up several times in the early morning, like myself). It can then be too low when you awake, and then be very low all day, with some small peaks here and there depending on how bad they are functioning.

It does this when adrenal fatigue / insufficiency is present.

ie: I know sometimes when I wake up randomly at 5am, I feel wide awake and alert...if I go back to sleep and try to wake up at a normal time, I feel like I can't get out of bed.
 
interesting.. but my doc should be able to do this cortisol test instead of ordering the slavia one correct?
 
yeah, maybe print it out and show him/her...sometimes doctors have to be hand-held especially when it comes to adrenal fatigue. Most Dr's don't recognize it as a real issue or syndrome until the adrenals totally give out (as in Addison's disease)
 
Gutterpump said:
Cortisol can 'sputter' and spike too early in the morning or at irregular times (between 4 and 6 am it can peak, causing you to wake up several times in the early morning, like myself). It can then be too low when you awake, and then be very low all day, with some small peaks here and there depending on how bad they are functioning.

It does this when adrenal fatigue / insufficiency is present.

ie: I know sometimes when I wake up randomly at 5am, I feel wide awake and alert...if I go back to sleep and try to wake up at a normal time, I feel like I can't get out of bed.
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Gutter...your experiences with early morning are very similar to mine.

I try so hard to not be tired that I try to be alseep by 10....and im only 25 (everyone at work calls me old man...lol)!!

Have you ever seen a Dr about your situation, and if so, did they ever do anything to help you?
 
Gutterpump said:
yeah, maybe print it out and show him/her...sometimes doctors have to be hand-held especially when it comes to adrenal fatigue. Most Dr's don't recognize it as a real issue or syndrome until the adrenals totally give out (as in Addison's disease)
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yea I kno how docs can be I work with them, so how should I word this? "Hey doc I am tired alot and have problems getting up, can we do a cortisol test"? Or is the test called something different?
 
you heard of tony robbins? well my buddy had the CD and one of the first things he recommended was to wake up fast and hard. none of that snoozing. it's a prelude to the rest of your day.

no matter how hard it is, once you wake up, don't go back to sleep. take 3 deep breaths in, exhale 3 breaths out. and repeat 10+ times to get your body going.

start your day immediately. you'll feel wonderful and it'll get easier as the time goes on. Snoozing makes you feel pretty crappy for the rest of the day.

this of course doesn't apply if you wake up in the middle of the night. but the way I see it, as long as I hit 6-7 hours of sleep, and I wake up, I'm going to start my day no matter what.

it's been said TOO much sleep is detrimental. especially the half-ass sleep you get in between snoozes.
 
pinchharmonic said:
you heard of tony robbins? well my buddy had the CD and one of the first things he recommended was to wake up fast and hard. none of that snoozing. it's a prelude to the rest of your day.

no matter how hard it is, once you wake up, don't go back to sleep. take 3 deep breaths in, exhale 3 breaths out. and repeat 10+ times to get your body going.

start your day immediately. you'll feel wonderful and it'll get easier as the time goes on. Snoozing makes you feel pretty crappy for the rest of the day.

this of course doesn't apply if you wake up in the middle of the night. but the way I see it, as long as I hit 6-7 hours of sleep, and I wake up, I'm going to start my day no matter what.

it's been said TOO much sleep is detrimental. especially the half-ass sleep you get in between snoozes.
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I like your post. For me, its as if I would have to say "Ok, I wake up off and on all night....but when 6 oclock comes around, if I wake up, then stay up"
 
pinchharmonic said:
you heard of tony robbins? well my buddy had the CD and one of the first things he recommended was to wake up fast and hard. none of that snoozing. it's a prelude to the rest of your day.

no matter how hard it is, once you wake up, don't go back to sleep. take 3 deep breaths in, exhale 3 breaths out. and repeat 10+ times to get your body going.

start your day immediately. you'll feel wonderful and it'll get easier as the time goes on. Snoozing makes you feel pretty crappy for the rest of the day.

this of course doesn't apply if you wake up in the middle of the night. but the way I see it, as long as I hit 6-7 hours of sleep, and I wake up, I'm going to start my day no matter what.

it's been said TOO much sleep is detrimental. especially the half-ass sleep you get in between snoozes.
Click to expand...

Yeah, when I do this, I feel much better. I hate trying to fall back asleep after I wake. I also have the problem of randomly waking up early as hell, with no chance of more sleep as others have mentioned. I blame it on years of working the night shift, and use of stimulants.
 
I used to have lots of morning grogginess and general lethargy later in the afternoons. I got a routine CBC and, while none of my values were "low" except for my RBC, my HCT and Hgb were low for a male and my MCV was high-normal. Figured I had the beginning of megaloblastic anemia, commonly caused by folate/B12/B6 deficiency, and my doctor agreed, but my values were not sufficiently abnormal to warrant further testing and my symptoms weren't "out of the ordinary". They were different from all of my prior CBCs, however.

I then realized that my diet sucked. I ate very little in the way of carbohydrate (by choice...very carb sensitive), and most carbohydrates are fortified with folate/b12/b6. I ate plenty of red meat, so I knew it wasn't the b12 unless I had an absorption deficiency for it. I also lacked fruits/vegetables in my diet pretty bad. I figured it was the folate or the B6. I also don't take multi-vits because I have yet to find a brand that doesn't produce nausea. I chalk it up to medical school...eat what you can when you can and get back to the books is the philosophy.

Anyways, I started supplementing with a folate/b12 combo daily, 6000IU of vit D, 1000mg of vit C and more fish oil than normal. I laid off the coffee, which was my "band-aid" for the grogginess, and found that after a month of this, I can wake up no problem and have lots of energy. I'm ready to go without any problems in the morning, and my mind is not foggy or cloudy all day anymore. I have yet to get another CBC, but I'll be getting one soon to hopefully corroborate the folate supplementation with my slightly anemic values.

Look at your diet. Maybe you fall in line with my history.
 
with zma i often have morning grogginess from the magnesium. Honestly, I dont really mind it, but take some stim or drink a cup of coffee and get your day rolling.

I doubt its any sort of serious problem, but you can always start using Relora if your worried about cortisol levels.
 
A few things:
OP - you are sleeping too much, IMO. Quit hitting the snooze button.

If you are groggy when you get up - (A) get your internal body temperature up (hot shower or better is exercise) and (B) get some sunlight in your eyes.

I know I have more trouble with morning groggieness in the winter because I'm not outside as much. I've also fairly well established that I feel much better after a shower or if I do pre-breakfast cardio.
(Usually have to shower before I hit the gym to wake my azz up and then shower again before work. Lots of showering but whatever.)

I had a good e-book on this, I'll see if I can find it and host it somewhere for you guys.
 
Forgot to add that alot of the groggy feeling is due to circadian rhythm (and thus internal body temperature).

Also - sleeping in on the weekend is detrimental in establishing a consistent morning rhythm.

If you want to get more sleep - nap more in the afternoon. BUT limit the naps to 20 to 30 mins. Any longer and you get into REM sleep - and you will be REALLY groggy if you wake up from that.
 
Classic symptoms of adrenal fatigue. Go to your doc and get some tests done. If he/she says it isnt that when you ask then make them do it or go to another doc. ResetAD is supposed to be a very good supp for adrenal fatigue.
 
depends on the severity.

I would research "Isocort" online...it's available without a script. If you go this route, ramp up slowly on the dosing. I can post a link that could help. If that doesn't help, doctors will prescribe hydrocortisone (cortef) for extreme cases.

Also, are you feeling depressed at all? Do you feel groggy in the summer too?
 
SwolenONE said:
I doubt its any sort of serious problem, but you can always start using Relora if your worried about cortisol levels.
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Gotta be careful with products that may reduce or supress cortisol. I'm not sure how relora works, but supressing cortisol is very hard on the adrenals, and makes them work harder. A lot of people may start off with elevated cortisol when under much stress, but once the adrenals are fatigued from prolonged stress, cortisol levels will drop very very low, too low, to an insufficient level. Low cortisol is as much a problem as high cortisol.

The only way to actually rest the adrenals, is to stay away from stims, get good quality sleep (deep sleep, and scheduled consitent sleep) and also supplementing with exogenous cortisol. That is, if there is a real problem.
 
Kc2554 said:
Gutter...your experiences with early morning are very similar to mine.

I try so hard to not be tired that I try to be alseep by 10....and im only 25 (everyone at work calls me old man...lol)!!

Have you ever seen a Dr about your situation, and if so, did they ever do anything to help you?
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Yeah, I've seen a lot of dr's here in NYC, but none that have been very good. They've tested morning cortisol via blood, but this isn't good enough.

I'm purchasing my own salivary cortisol test and going to check on my own, and travel to see a better doctor so that I don't waste my time anymore.

I'm the same, people at work ask me why I look so tired, people who are 10 years older than me, telling me that I am so young and should be full of energy! LOL

I think getting a sleep study should be a priority for someone who sleeps long enough and complains of not feeling refreshed though. That's something I need to do as well. I used to be the type of person who wouldn't see a Dr unless I felt I was dying, and just drank more coffee/caffeine/monster/redbull/redline extreme to feel better. These drinks and most supps don't do anything anymore though except to cure some headaches from caffeine withdrawl.
 
JudoJosh said:
yea I kno how docs can be I work with them, so how should I word this? "Hey doc I am tired alot and have problems getting up, can we do a cortisol test"? Or is the test called something different?
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Tell them that testing morning cortisol doesn't take into account how your adrenals function throughout the day. Testing morning cortisol only rules out adrenal failure, which means you would be pretty much dying or close to death. Useless test.

You need to map your cortisol levels throughout the day. This is easily done via saliva testing, 4x per day.

Print out this test, and explain this to your doc. You want to test for adrenal functioning and see if your adrenals are producing insufficiently. Also, you may ask your doc to test for Aldosterone. People who have adrenal issues may also be low in this hormone, which is responsible for proper electrolyte balancing. This is really important...and can have a large effect on the way people feel, and effect many bodily functions.

Here is the test again:
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And Aldosterone can be easily tested for via blood.

But again, maybe it's just a case of seasonal affective disorder, the winter blues.
 
Gutterpump said:
But again, maybe it's just a case of seasonal affective disorder, the winter blues.
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Rather than f'ing around with stuff for adrenals, I'm going with both this and poor sleeping habits (hitting the snooze/sleeping to much) giving a poor circadian rhythm approach.
 
jmh80 said:
Rather than f'ing around with stuff for adrenals, I'm going with both this and poor sleeping habits (hitting the snooze/sleeping to much) giving a poor circadian rhythm approach.
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Yeah for sure, take care of obvious things before messing with any drugs. A sleep study would also help, sleep apnea is pretty common with these sort of things too. It's good to rule that out if insurance will cover it.

I wouldn't mess with adrenals unless testing showed it necessary. Supps like Reset AD can't hurt though, it's not nearly as potent as an oral corticosteroid. Isocort is also not nearly as potent, it's similar to Reset AD - but it's a standardized version of it, without the pregnenalone. Testing wouldn't hurt though either...that's all I'm suggesting. A lot of people go through life without getting much bloodwork done or testing done at all.
 
JudoJosh said:
I am always tired in the morning no matter how much sleep I get I hit the snooze button at least 3 times but when I truely dont get enough sleep it is like 6 or 7 times I hit snooze..

I have always been like this, I hate mornings, more specifically I hate waking up, I always want to go back to bed.

I am looking for a sup to help combat this, something that when I hear my alarm clock I am wide awake and just pop out of bed. I currently take ZMA and it is good but I feel I just get a deeper sleep with it, doesnt help with the getting up part..

any suggestions besides stop being lazy?
Click to expand...

Do you regularly consume caffeine or other stimulants? Are you taking anything to help induce sleep (like OTC sleep aids)?
 
thegodfather said:
Classic symptoms of adrenal fatigue. Go to your doc and get some tests done. If he/she says it isnt that when you ask then make them do it or go to another doc. ResetAD is supposed to be a very good supp for adrenal fatigue.
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Just wondering why I keep seeing Reset AD recommended for "adrenal fatigue"? I know that's what its marketed as, but I'm really not very impressed with the formula.

What about this product makes it so popular?

...and please don't say to check the logs.
 
Gutterpump said:
A sleep study will check for quality of sleep, and for sleep apnea, which is treatable.

A 24-hr cortisol test for your adrenals can be done through your regular dr, or you can order a salivary test, or urine test online for about $100-150.
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My father-in-law has sleep apnea. He couldn't sleep worth $(%^ until they put him on his machine. Now he's energized due to deeper and restful sleep. Are you eating anything before bed? Do you snore a lot. Thats a good sign of apnea.
 
Not disagreeing with the other pieces of advice, but taking Acetyl-L-Carnitine (1 to 1.5g) after the first alarm would really help with alertness. This is one of the most underrated supplements on the market, and you can tell within 10 min. of dosing that it is working.
 
chim_chim said:
Not disagreeing with the other pieces of advice, but taking Acetyl-L-Carnitine (1 to 1.5g) after the first alarm would really help with alertness. This is one of the most underrated supplements on the market, and you can tell within 10 min. of dosing that it is working.
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awesome I have some of that already, I got a caffiene pill next ti my alarm clock I am goona put a l-carnitine there too and hopefully it helps tomorow until I get to the doc for these test..
 
I am the exact same way. I think some of us are just like that. It is just difficult for our bodies to make, physically and mentally, the transition from sleep to wake.

If I take Powerfull, GABA, or Melatonin before bed then it is even worse.

I will admit, I stay up way too late a lot of times. I was tested for Cortisol on a blood panel recently and it was at the bottom of the range.

I just drink a cup of coffee first thing or take a YRD, RPM, or Stimulant X (old version). And splashing my face with ice cold water helps too. The problem is, I have to get out of bed and be awake to do this and half the time I don't have the time or I am so groggy I forget.
 
How long does it take for Reset AD to work? I have been on it since few days now and still don't see any positive effects. Since 2 days, I am taking 3 caps/day. I am also giving a try to Rhodiola and ALCAR but since few days I am getting some headaches.

Feel so tiried all the day :(
 
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