Money is no issue. Best cutting stack

mr.cooper69 said:
tldr your stack, but if money weren't an issue:

AOR Orthocore - full dose
Orange Oximega Fish Oil - 5 caps daily
Protein powder of choice
MAN Clout dosed twice every day
MAN Body Octane dosed twice every day
ECY (with Y coming from alphaburn) Stack dosed 3x a day
Cytosport Monsterpump preworkout at 2 scoops + 2 scoops Pump-Bol + 1 scoop Ultima
Geronova Na-R-ALA + SNS Agmatine with all carb meal
Omega Sports Strive
Allmax Aminocore for between meals
Nimbus Poseidon Night Time
X-Factor + GMS + LCLT
Genomyx DCP + SNS TTA-500 + SNS RK-500 + SNS PLCAR
Core Test
C-Bolic 95% Forskolin
AnaBeta
Ubiquinol
Selenium
AOR B Complex
CEL PCT Assist + Cycle Assist
Abliderate Advanced
Green Tea Extract
BCS Elastiflex
Sublingual Methylb12
Chelated Magnesium
Reduce XT

Yeah...since money isn't an issue, I guess you'll have to buy all of that.
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Isn't ultima enough for B12 ?
Clout + BodyOctane + Monster pump = 8,4g of BA ? holy sh
Clout + Ultima + Monster pump = 10g creatine

Abliderate + DCP + HEAT + LX/reduce xt +/- EC should be more than enough for a cut.
Protocol + Xtend for increased recovery .
 
3utcher said:
Isn't ultima enough for B12 ?
Clout + BodyOctane + Monster pump = 8,4g of BA ? holy sh
Clout + Ultima + Monster pump = 10g creatine

Abliderate + DCP + HEAT + LX/reduce xt +/- EC should be more than enough for a cut.
Protocol + Xtend for increased recovery .
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and I thought they say not to dose fish oil with ARA? I have some x-fACTOR on hand so curious about this.
 
monstermash said:
Yeah, should've been clearer... I thought you are not suppossed to use additional fish oil.
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it really depends what you're looking for.

If you want to have all the "gains" from Ara, don't take fish oils.
If you want to limit the sides and the gains, take your fish oils.
If you want to have gains without sides, go for another thing.
 
3utcher said:
it really depends what you're looking for.

If you want to have all the "gains" from Ara, don't take fish oils.
If you want to limit the sides and the gains, take your fish oils.
If you want to have gains without sides, go for another thing.
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I see thanks. What's your background if you don't mind me asking?
 
emekajokammor said:
Hey G! That is one heck of a stack. I just want to congratulate you in advance bro! If you don't add anything else to your stack you should def add LeanFX, IMO. Stim free and no crap ingredients.
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Thanks I appreciate it. I'm thinking about it. Its decently priced. Still a few days before I order anything I don't already have. Tough decisions.
 
Anybody have any thoughts on how much running AL and AH v2 would have as far as muscle sparing ability on this cut? Even though the shutdown would be low, I don't want any shutdown at all if I really gain nothing from it.
 
xGenericx said:
Anybody have any thoughts on how much running AL and AH v2 would have as far as muscle sparing ability on this cut? Even though the shutdown would be low, I don't want any shutdown at all if I really gain nothing from it.
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The v2 versions are less potent, but should easily stave off catabolism. How much of each product do you have? I would 2 bottles of each for 8 weeks?

To avoid shutdown split the dose 4 hours a[art. Take 3 of each in morning --- then 3 of each 3-4 hours later.....remember, version 2 is a bit faster acting so double dosing is necessary.

-Matt
 
As for arachidonic acid and fish oil....dose the AA right around training and the fish oil 6 hours +++ later, preferably before bed and just a regular dose.

-Matt
 
Also regarding the Arachidonic acid & fish oil situation I believe I touched based on my personal situation here --Invalid Link Removed

-Matt
 
MattPorter said:
As for arachidonic acid and fish oil....dose the AA right around training and the fish oil 6 hours +++ later, preferably before bed and just a regular dose.

-Matt
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Thanks! I have 1 bottle of Each. I would be interested in ordering another bottle AH v3 and of course AL V2 is hard to come buy, and I wouldn't run another bottle of V2 anyway. So I would probably be running 1 Bottle of AL v2, 1 Bottle Of AH v2, and 1 or 2 Bottles of AH v3 depending on how cheap I can get it.
 
3utcher said:
why did you friend said you looked leaner before the diet, but then recommand it for endomorphs ?
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My body/metabolism does WELL on carbs, or higher SATURATED fats -- like red meats, egg yolks, PB etc....

My thought process to why I looked worse was because my body depletes, flattens out and loses fullness very easily. So when I introduced the high anti-inflammatory environment --- my muscles went BYE BYE. All my usual pronounced vascularity went into hiding.

Of course the entire muscle building process was hindered as PGF2A was greatly inhibited by the anti inflammatory effects. But I was experimenting right?

I DO recommend for endomorphs as they hold muscle more easily and also usually ONLY struggle with fat loss..... So for them hindering some muscle building effects in favor of better fat metabolism and insulin sensitivity is probably a better approach for them

-Matt
 
MattPorter said:
My body/metabolism does WELL on carbs, or higher SATURATED fats -- like red meats, egg yolks, PB etc....

My thought process to why I looked worse was because my body depletes, flattens out and loses fullness very easily. So when I introduced the high anti-inflammatory environment --- my muscles went BYE BYE. All my usual pronounced vascularity went into hiding.

Of course the entire muscle building process was hindered as PGF2A was greatly inhibited by the anti inflammatory effects. But I was experimenting right?

I DO recommend for endomorphs as they hold muscle more easily and also usually ONLY struggle with fat loss..... So for them hindering some muscle building effects in favor of better fat metabolism and insulin sensitivity is probably a better approach for them

-Matt
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I think I didn't explained it well

> "What happened to you? You look like crap?" "You looked bigger and leaner before you started your diet, what the hell is going on?"
he said you were leaner before the omega3 megadose thing, so the diet had make you fat ; so it might no be good for anyone.
hu ?
 
3utcher said:
I think I didn't explained it well

> "What happened to you? You look like crap?" "You looked bigger and leaner before you started your diet, what the hell is going on?"
he said you were leaner before the omega3 megadose thing, so the diet had make you fat ; so it might no be good for anyone.
hu ?
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Nooo.....I of course did not gain fat. It's a cosmetic effect. Flatter muscles, + lower blood pressure/blood volume makes the skin push LESS tight against the muscles ----causing the illusion of less fullness and leanness.

Because within a week of switching out fat sources I filled up and was "popping" again.....

Before the official diet --- I was eating Burger King quad stackers w/o the buns daily and lots things similar so -- trust me I got leaner onthe high fish oil --- just deflated me per se.....

Hope that helps

-Matt
 
MattPorter said:
Nooo.....I of course did not gain fat. It's a cosmetic effect. Flatter muscles, + lower blood pressure/blood volume makes the skin push LESS tight against the muscles ----causing the illusion of less fullness and leanness.

Because within a week of switching out fat sources I filled up and was "popping" again.....

Before the official diet --- I was eating Burger King quad stackers w/o the buns daily and lots things similar so -- trust me I got leaner onthe high fish oil --- just deflated me per se.....

Hope that helps

-Matt
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So would the higher fish Oil be good for dropping weight, then switch the fat source when wanting to bring out some more definition?
 
I can really only answer that in regard to the way I personally respond. Keep in mind I WAYYYY overdid the fishoil + olive oil simply to see what "all the fuss was about" in regard to Charles Poliquin's high dose fish oil protocol and it SUCKED for me.....

My body type naturally is that skinny prick w/ abs and veins, even though I am very thin......

So burgers, and high inflammatory foods served my body type right.

-Matt
 
MattPorter said:
I can really only answer that in regard to the way I personally respond. Keep in mind I WAYYYY overdid the fishoil + olive oil simply to see what "all the fuss was about" in regard to Charles Poliquin's high dose fish oil protocol and it SUCKED for me.....

My body type naturally is that skinny prick w/ abs and veins, even though I am very thin......

So burgers, and high inflammatory foods served my body type right.

-Matt
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I just started dosing 9 grams today...bumping to 12 soon! Link to CP page?
 
i'm on 10g on fish oil per day
never see any change on my physique, i'm actually looking best now than i ever was.

(but i know i spend too much attention on bf than on volume actually)
 
if moneys not a issue u should sponsor me on a cutting stack :sgrin:
 
Androlean V2
AndroHard V2
Hopefully adding a bottle of AndroHard-V3
1 AndroMass-V2
2 AndroMass-v3
Halo-Var(H-drol)
Sustain Alpha
2 Bottle of T-911
1/2 Forma-D
2 1/2 Bottles of Anabeta
1 Bottle SNS PLCAR 50
1 Bottle 90 caps SNS Agmatine
1 Bottle SNS-RK500 Xtreme
1 SNS DAA 180 CAPS
2 SNS TTA-500
SNS Piracetam
1 AnabolicPump
3/4 glycobol
1 TT-33 90 caps
1 Now Hawthorn Extract
1 DS Lean Xtreme(wanted Reduce XT was sold out every where i looked)
Nutra planet CLA caps
Nutra Planet GABA
NOW fishoil
Now Omega-3.
Shred matrix.
Creatine
protein of course
xtend bcaa
Twinlabs yohimbe fuel



These are all of the supplements I currently have. I was still deciding on whether to add the ECA stack or not. I've decided no for now. It seems to affect my BP a good amount. I've been going a week with just taking the basics and Anabolic Pump. So far I've lost 12lbs and went from 18%BF to 16%BF.I went 226lbs to 214. I know it a bit fast. I highlighter the supps I want to use also including use for PCT. I'm having a hard time making the stack and deciding when to take what supp. I'm trying to do a leangains diet. I may have to forgo that based on my work schedule.

So heres what I have so far.
Weeks 1-4
8:00 AM Preworkout
1 Cap PLCAR
1 Cap Yohimbe (Bark Extract 400mg)
2 Scoops Xtend
5G Creatine

8:30 AM Workout
4 scoops Xtend Intraworkout

9:30 AM
1 cap of Anabolicpump

9:45 Biggestmeal of the day
2G fish oil
2G CLA
1 Cap Multi
1 cap Hawthorn Extract 300MG

2:00 PM

1 Cap TTA-500
1 Cap AnabolicPump

2:30 Meal
2G Fish Oil
2G CLA

All of this is determined by my schedule, the rest of the meal would have TT-500 and Anabolic Pump taken before them and CLA and fish oil taken with them.

Weeks 4-8
8:00 AM Preworkout
3 Caps AL V2
3 Caps AH v2
1 Cap PLCAR
1 Cap Yohimbe (Bark Extract 400mg)
2 Scoops Xtend
5G Creatine.

8:30 AM Workout
4 scoops Xtend Intraworkout


9:30 AM
1 cap of Anabolicpump
1 Cap RK-500
1 Cap TTA 500.

I think you see the trend. I'm having trouble deciding when to add the Lean Xtreme Or TT-33 and shred matrix in. This would be even harder if I do decide on adding ECA in. AL already has 7-DHEA in it and I don't want to go overboard. Also wondering if it should be added to PCT. MY PCT for the AH and AL is going to be sustain alpha every night before bed in the last two weeks of the cycle(Or Whole Cycle) and the Every Night and Morning after. DAA everyday after for 4-6 weeks. I probably throw some anabeta and agmatine in there as well.

I'm also thing about adding a Bottle of Andro Hard v3 so I can extend the PH part of the cycle to 8 weeks.

Any thoughts on when to use certain supps? I want to maximize the the cycle, while possibly avoiding wasting supps. However, if a supp causes 5% benefit; I still want to use it. You guys have been a great help.




 
3utcher said:
i won't take yohimbe with xtend.
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Why is that? Is there some kind of negative reaction? I know yohimbe is supposed to be taken un on empty stomach, I didn't think that xtend would effect it. Sometimes I just space it out. Sometimes I take yohimbe then half an hr later, I take the xtend. I def feel at least the BCAAs are essential. I am working out faster other then xtend.
 
xGenericx said:
Why is that? Is there some kind of negative reaction? I know yohimbe is supposed to be taken un on empty stomach, I didn't think that xtend would effect it. Sometimes I just space it out. Sometimes I take yohimbe then half an hr later, I take the xtend. I def feel at least the BCAAs are essential. I am working out faster other then xtend.
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I often dose my yohimbine with recoverpro or other bcaa in the morning before my fasted cardio and it always seems to work great for me.
 
It is due to the insulinogenic effects of BCAAs when taken in high amounts. This effect is negated by performing exercise (i.e. cardio) shortly after ingestion (as kingjames pointed out).
 
mr.cooper69 said:
It is due to the insulinogenic effects of BCAAs when taken in high amounts. This effect is negated by performing exercise (i.e. cardio) shortly after ingestion (as kingjames pointed out).
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Yeah, thats my plan ! Yohimbe preworkout/cardio while I'm fasted. Would 10G BCAA cause a release of insulin large enough to negate the effects of yohimbe?
 
xGenericx said:
Yeah, thats my plan ! Yohimbe preworkout/cardio while I'm fasted. Would 10G BCAA cause a release of insulin large enough to negate the effects of yohimbe?
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Not if you are conducting exercise afterwards. Exercise makes the unfavorable effects of insulin on yohimbine take a "backseat" if you will.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
It is due to the insulinogenic effects of BCAAs when taken in high amounts. This effect is negated by performing exercise (i.e. cardio) shortly after ingestion (as kingjames pointed out).
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Exactly ; but 21g is a good dose, thus affecting insulin levels much.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Not if you are conducting exercise afterwards. Exercise makes the unfavorable effects of insulin on yohimbine take a "backseat" if you will.
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Cooper what is your take on alpha yohimbine vs. regular yohimbine and how do the doses differentiate...say I took 4 2.5 mg tablets of regular yohimbine...what would be the approach to reach the same effect of alpha yohimbine (how many grams etc.) I know that is a very general question. Maybe you can clear the air for me. I think you get where I am coming from. If not. Then well...I'll just go...kick rocks haha.
 
So TTA, RK-500, and Anabolic Pump Before meals. PCLAR and Yohimbe Pre workout and RK-500 and GABA prebed. Lean Xtreme a bit later in the cycle as well as TT-33 .
 
It sounds like dosing bcaas + yohimbine --- initiating a insulin spike would be the PERFECT TIME ti dose 3-6 grams of liquid (oral) or injectable L-carnitine as insulin is needed to drive the carnitine through the mitochondria... Something to consider and possibly take advantage of.

-Matt
 
MattPorter said:
It sounds like dosing bcaas + yohimbine --- initiating a insulin spike would be the PERFECT TIME ti dose 3-6 grams of liquid (oral) or injectable L-carnitine as insulin is needed to drive the carnitine through the mitochondria... Something to consider and possibly take advantage of.

-Matt
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better take the carnitine with meals.
 
3utcher said:
better take the carnitine with meals.
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Do all need to be taken with meals; including PLCAR? I'm asking because I was planning to take the PLCAR preworkout. There will be some insulin as I will be dosing Yohimbe and BCAAs pre as well, kinda like Matt was suggesting.
 
xGenericx said:
Do all need to be taken with meals; including PLCAR? I'm asking because I was planning to take the PLCAR preworkout. There will be some insulin as I will be dosing Yohimbe and BCAAs pre as well, kinda like Matt was suggesting.
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dunno
but if you take it for fat burning, the effects will take over time, so you don't need to dose it preW.
 
xGenericx said:
Do all need to be taken with meals; including PLCAR? I'm asking because I was planning to take the PLCAR preworkout. There will be some insulin as I will be dosing Yohimbe and BCAAs pre as well, kinda like Matt was suggesting.
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From my research it seems ALCAR is the most positive in terms of human research and also cognitive enhancement and being a neuro-protector. Most use it and "feel it" cross the blood-brain-barrier pretty quickly.


4. Derek M. Rhode. Acetyl-l-carnitine and its effects on memory and cognition. Hamline University department of Psychology. Invalid Link Removed

5. P. M. Abdul Muneer & Saleena Alikunju &
Adam M. Szlachetka & James Haorah. Inhibitory effects of alcohol on glucose transport across the blood–brain barrier leads to neurodegeneration: preventive role of acetyl-L-carnitine .The Journal of Psychopharmacology (2011) 214:707–718 DOI 10.1007/s00213-010-2076-4

13. Bidzinska B, Petraglia F, Angioni S, Genazzani AD, Criscuolo M, Ficarra G, Gallinelli A, Trentini GP, Genazzani AR. Effect of different chronic intermittent stressors and acetyl-l-carnitine on hypothalamic beta-endorphin and GnRH and on plasma testosterone levels in male rats. The Journal of Neuroendocrinology (June 1993):57 No. 6 pages 985-90.

-Matt
 
MattPorter said:
It sounds like dosing bcaas + yohimbine --- initiating a insulin spike would be the PERFECT TIME ti dose 3-6 grams of liquid (oral) or injectable L-carnitine as insulin is needed to drive the carnitine through the mitochondria... Something to consider and possibly take advantage of.

-Matt
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I have been playing around with different combinations of carb/bcaa intake with Carnitine dosing. Unfortunately, the timeframe to recognize effectiveness is quite long. I read dat's write up on it, and it seems like Oral Carnitine dosage will take a good amount of dedication to come even close to the effectiveness of insulin/carnitine injections.
 
I'll preface this by saying that I have not read anything other than the title of the post so take it for what you will. Best stack for cutting is DNP+stapples /thread. I don't recommend it but there's nothing better out there.
 
HereToStudy said:
LOL, not a recommendation you see on in the supplements section everyday...
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John I used injectable L carnitine years ago -- I would do shots a day --- 1 before cardio in morning and 1 before training at night -- I was crash dieting for a contest in 2005.

I dropped tons BF in 5 weeks lol -- but I had too many variables to conclude that carnitine was a definitive factor in my abrupt fat loss

-matt
 
MattPorter said:
John I used injectable L carnitine years ago -- I would do shots a day --- 1 before cardio in morning and 1 before training at night -- I was crash dieting for a contest in 2005.

I dropped tons BF in 5 weeks lol -- but I had too many variables to conclude that carnitine was a definitive factor in my abrupt fat loss

-matt
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I wouldn't discount it if Insulin was utilized at the time. I have read amounts as small as 1iu would be enought to have an effect. Assuming this is the case, it would also minimize the frequency of application for the carnitine, down to as little as once every 3 days. I really do think this is the best way Carnitine can be utilized, but it should be reserved for those knowledgeable enough around the slin.
 
HereToStudy said:
I wouldn't discount it if Insulin was utilized at the time. I have read amounts as small as 1iu would be enought to have an effect. Assuming this is the case, it would also minimize the frequency of application for the carnitine, down to as little as once every 3 days. I really do think this is the best way Carnitine can be utilized, but it should be reserved for those knowledgeable enough around the slin.
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I was not familiar with slin in 2005 -- so I just used it in combination with Yohimbine, clen etc....

-Matt
 
what I am doing

l carntine tartrate 5 grams, 5 grams bcaa's, 2 alpha-yohimbines 20 mgs(alphaburns) and ec stack first thing upon awaking. Im still ramping up my alpha yohimbine dose and 30 mgs is the max

then cardio or weights (as I sometimes weight train twice a day, ot cardio then train or train then cardio)
 
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