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Cooper what is your take on alpha yohimbine vs. regular yohimbine and how do the doses differentiate...say I took 4 2.5 mg tablets of regular yohimbine...what would be the approach to reach the same effect of alpha yohimbine (how many grams etc.) I know that is a very general question. Maybe you can clear the air for me. I think you get where I am coming from. If not. Then well...I'll just go...kick rocks haha.

Alpha is superior in my opinion. Aim for 30mg a day. It has far less anxiogenic side effects.

Do all need to be taken with meals; including PLCAR? I'm asking because I was planning to take the PLCAR preworkout. There will be some insulin as I will be dosing Yohimbe and BCAAs pre as well, kinda like Matt was suggesting.

The study of carnitine showed something like 80 grams of simple carbs necessary to increase muscle carnitine content over a period of MONTHS. Not worth it in a number of respects.

HOWEVER, PLCAR directly enters the cell independent of carbohydrate intake. Reference:Wiseman LR, et al. "Propionyl-l-carnitine." Drugs Aging. (1988);12:243-8

I have been playing around with different combinations of carb/bcaa intake with Carnitine dosing. Unfortunately, the timeframe to recognize effectiveness is quite long. I read dat's write up on it, and it seems like Oral Carnitine dosage will take a good amount of dedication to come even close to the effectiveness of insulin/carnitine injections.

Don't bother. Let's hypothesize that increasing muscle carnitine does indeed accelerate fat loss. To what extent will it do so? Probably minimally. Just use PLCAR if boosting muscle carnitine is your goal.
 
All good stuff! Always good to hear what you guys have to say. Looks like I'll have to take it for quite some time to notice any affects. So l I just have to hope it actually does increase fatloss. I could use the ALCAR as well, if you can actually feel it working. I need a mental boost badly.
 
Alpha is superior in my opinion. Aim for 30mg a day. It has far less anxiogenic side effects..

do you know if dosing the ec stack with alpha yohimbine is fine first thing in the morning, then exercising?

I know that for alpha y to be effective it needs to be on an empty stomach with no food for a while right?

Im probably over-analyzing and its probally fine to take alpha-y and ec together
 
do you know if dosing the ec stack with alpha yohimbine is fine first thing in the morning, then exercising?

I know that for alpha y to be effective it needs to be on an empty stomach with no food for a while right?

Im probably over-analyzing and its probally fine to take alpha-y and ec together

In a low insulin state, yes. You should be taking EC on an empty stomach anyway (we want a high pH) so simply dose the yohimbine with it.
 
some of these make my heart pound just reading them :)
 
The study of carnitine showed something like 80 grams of simple carbs necessary to increase muscle carnitine content over a period of MONTHS. Not worth it in a number of respects.

HOWEVER, PLCAR directly enters the cell independent of carbohydrate intake. Reference:Wiseman LR, et al. "Propionyl-l-carnitine." Drugs Aging. (1988);12:243-8

I am not certain I would say Not worth it, as a means to compeltely discount it. If one is to dose Carnitine forms, dosing around ingestion of carbs (assuming one is on a diet involving moderate/high carb intake) would be prudent, even if increase is only marginal. You are taking the carbs anyway, why not correlate dosage? Similar to my quote below, I am not ingesting BCAA/Carbs specifically for the Carnitine, but the combination seems worthwhile since both would be ingested either way.


As for the study, do you have access to the full text? The abstract doesn't provide much in terms of details (besides apparent increase in walking endurance). I ask not as a challenge to the information provided, but as a development of my curiosity towards the pharmacokinetics/dynamics they may have explored in detail.

Don't bother. Let's hypothesize that increasing muscle carnitine does indeed accelerate fat loss. To what extent will it do so? Probably minimally. Just use PLCAR if boosting muscle carnitine is your goal.

Again, it would really come down to the difference in the amount of total carnitine content compared between say, orally dosed PLCAR and injected L-car in combination with low dosed insulin. Larger picture would be at similar dosing, which would show higher levels of muscle free carnitine levels when exercise reaches higher intensity, which should allow for higher rates of fat oxidation. The extent to which one would be more effective as a means of the implied marginal difference, it would be my assumption that a user who is willing to use insulin would be interested in every possible increase in effectiveness available, irregardless of condition of benefit. Although, if I would easily hypothesize, the latter protocol would result in a significant increase as compared to the former. Remember, alot of the methods I blab about is not a recommendation to any member on the board, nor does it imply using the protocol myself. My interest comes from understanding the highest possible manipulation of the bodies processes to facilitate the change a user is pursuing.
 
I'll get back to you on the full text; no access off-campus.

Will elevating muscle carnitine elevate overall fat loss? Theoretically, sure. But when I can take simple agents like TTA (well, not anymore), forskolin, etc and not have to worry about fancy, inefficient, longterm dosing schemes, I have to stand by my comment that raising muscle carnitine is "not worth it" unless you are using PLCAR.

I'm not attacking your methods at all my friend; I'm merely stating the science that's out there. If you would like to know what I'm doing, I have actually been on 2 daily grams of PLCAR for 3 months. I honestly can say that weight loss has not been out of the ordinary, BUT I seem to have had a sort of "recomposition" effect while losing weight, which was interesting. However, the reason I don't stand by anecdote is because it's not controlled; there are far too many variables in my diet, training, cardio, and additional supplements. From a strictly science perspective, I feel that you should either use PLCAR for boosting muscle carnitine or you shouldn't even pursue it. Now, that's not to say don't use other carnitine forms, because they are all AWESOME :D
 
Will elevating muscle carnitine elevate overall fat loss? Theoretically, sure. But when I can take simple agents like TTA (well, not anymore), forskolin, etc and not have to worry about fancy, inefficient, longterm dosing schemes, I have to stand by my comment that raising muscle carnitine is "not worth it" unless you are using PLCAR.
From this point of view, it's true.


Have you ever tried to dose carnitine up to 10g/day ?
(find a reliable source or you'll smell fishy)
 
what I am doing

l carntine tartrate 5 grams, 5 grams bcaa's, 2 alpha-yohimbines 20 mgs(alphaburns) and ec stack first thing upon awaking. Im still ramping up my alpha yohimbine dose and 30 mgs is the max

then cardio or weights (as I sometimes weight train twice a day, ot cardio then train or train then cardio)

You will be getting peeled. Are you running any hormones too?

-matt
 
You will be getting peeled. Are you running any hormones too?

-matt

Hopefully Ill get peeled haha. This is my third contest preparation and getting "ripped" has been my biggest challenge, all I ask is of myself I keep improving year to year. I use lower dosed ec, no more than 50 e and 400 c. I could go up to 75 e and 600 c,not sure if I will, most likely will stick to 50e and 400 c a day. Too many stims and I dont mix well.


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My cycle is laid out -check out page one, and feel free to join and give your valued input on diet, and everything else
 
Hopefully Ill get peeled haha. This is my third contest preparation and getting "ripped" has been my biggest challenge, all I ask is of myself I keep improving year to year. I use lower dosed ec, no more than 50 e and 400 c. I could go up to 75 e and 600 c,not sure if I will, most likely will stick to 50e and 400 c a day. Too many stims and I dont mix well.


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My cycle is laid out -check out page one, and feel free to join and give your valued input on diet, and everything else

Wish you got in touch with me BEFORE you started I would have sponsored you with Andro products as this log would have been perfect!!!

-matt
 
Wish you got in touch with me BEFORE you started I would have sponsored you with Andro products as this log would have been perfect!!!

-matt

Maybe next time?

Im just getting started on doing shows and using hormonals and Ill only use otc so this would make sense. Ill do another show at least by next year provided my health says healthy to do them. Maybe one this year. Ill add you as a friend on here and facebook if I can find youand contact you when I do my next show. Matt, Thank you
 
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