Milk and its effectiveness on supplements

[rdj6107]

i love to make my protein shakes with milk. i will sometimes add the following:

glutamine
beta-alanine
creatine
cycle support
whey protein or caesin protein

am i weakening or even destroying the potency of the above by using milk.

 

[ChrisSurf]

That arguments been going back and forth for so long, personally I don't see the issue with milk, I drink it in my shakes.. everyone else I know does as well. For one thing, it gives shakes a hell of a lot better taste than water, and gives a creamy texture and you get the extra cals etc from it. High quality chocolate protein, pb, and milk with a half frozen banana is the sh!t

The little casein in milk that some people think stops absorption is no big deal imo, hell I remember reading reports showing how even chocolate milk was excellent for you pwo, which I'll do as well with protein/pb/half frozen banana.

 

[rdj6107]

to my knowledge, i know milk (calcium) cancels out ZMA other than that i had not heard of anything. but that's what forums are for. i just want to make sure i am not wasting $$$ because of milk consumption.

 

[kingjameskjf]

yeah like you said, the calcium interferes with the absorption of some things such as ZMA and GABA. It won't have any effect on protein since milk in itself is a protein source. Not sure about the others but I don't think it would have a negative impact on aminos.

 

[HondaV65]

I can't drink shakes made with water. I seriously rather eat what comes out of my little bulldog's doo-doo dime than drink a shake with water. Well, almost anyway.

I use almond milk now.

 

[kingjameskjf]

I can't drink shakes made with water. I seriously rather eat what comes out of my little bulldog's doo-doo dime than drink a shake with water. Well, almost anyway.

I use almond milk now.

Almond milk helps alot, I like using the unsweetend version from Silk. If you put a pitcher of water in the fridge so it gets really cold, it helps with the protein shake. Granted it's still not near as good as with milk or even almond milk, but it does the job.

 

[T-Bone]

Milk bloats me up like a balloon. As for calcium interfering with ZMA, I think thats more bro-science than actual fact.

 

[kingjameskjf]

Milk bloats me up like a balloon. As for calcium interfering with ZMA, I think thats more bro-science than actual fact.

Nope, not broscience.

Here's an excerpt from the knowledgable Big Cat regarding the issue:

the deal with calcium is that is has the same transport mechanism as zinc and copper. This mechanism is limited and when more than one of these substances is absorbed one is prioritized over the other. With calcium being the third most important mineral in the body its given high priority over zinc and copper, and likewise zinc is prioritized over copper.

Even if you take high doses of zinc over your calcium, you'd need to get 30 mg more zinc than calcium to get the 30 mg absorption. Now the question is, how effective is the transport mechanism. If you take 50 mg of Ca and 80 mg of Zn (I don't recommend anyone take more than 50 mg at any time however) and the transport can only handle 50 mg, then it will take mostly calcium and there is no way you'll get anywhere near 30 mg in.

The proper way to do it, is to take it on an empty stomach with no calcium present. An empty stomach because that assures no digestive interference and a maximum transport capability since none of these minerals recently passed through. Also its advised to take it before bed because that is when Zn is most effective at improving sleep and boosting LH output. Now a lot of people want to prevent catabolism by having a slow digesting protein shake before bed, because cortisol increases overnight and peaks in the morning. Of course shakes have calcium. The best way to resolve that is to take the ZMA on an empty stomach (60 miutes or longer after last meal depending on what you ate) , but 30 minutes BEFORE you take your shake right before bed. That gives the zinc plenty of time to be absorbed before the calcium hits the stomach without having to lose too much time.

The other way around ruins the effect. Taking the slow-digesting shake first you need to wait up to 2 hours before taking ZMA which knocks nearly 160 minutes off the efficacy of your shake.

 

[nattydisaster]

Milk bloats me up like a balloon. As for calcium interfering with ZMA, I think thats more bro-science than actual fact.

Same here...milk makes me look like

 

[T-Bone]

Oh, The Knowledgeable Big Cat?. Well then I guess that makes it true.

 

[T-Bone]

Same here...milk makes me look like

I feel more like this,

 

[kingjameskjf]

Oh, The Knowledgeable Big Cat?. Well then I guess that makes it true.

Why do you have to be a d!ck? Instead, how about you prove it wrong and try using some science? I don't have time to search through all the pubmed articles but let me know when you've "disproved" it.

 

[T-Bone]

I guess I'm just not as worried about as you. I don't take ZMA. Not being a d*ck. Didn't mean to if thats how it looked.

 

[kingjameskjf]

I guess I'm just not as worried about as you. I don't take ZMA. Not being a d*ck. Didn't mean to if thats how it looked.

That's how it came off to me so I apologize if I overreacted. I was merely trying to make a point. Big Cat is Peter Van Mol who is well known under his screen name for his articles. He has a background in molecular biology, who has also studied medical lab technology and physical therapy. Certain people are more credible then others. One example I will use is Layne Norton. I have used many of his suggestions and routines with phenomenal success. His education is far beyond most with a doctorate in his field and natural pro bodybuilder to show the hard work of his convictions. I give great respect to his ideologies and lend credence to his methods. That doesn't mean he's never wrong or that his way is always the best, but its much more sound and scientifically based then many opinions and ideas that out out there.

 

[jgassen15]

Calcium indeed reduces zinc absorption, not just broscience. Also obviously some large neutral amino acids compete for the same transport mechanism to cross the blood-brain barrier. I personally make sure to avoid anything high in calcium with any of my supplements, even my multivitamin. I also stopped drinking milk long ago because it makes me look like Uncle Buck and feel like Lindsay Lohan on a Sunday morning. I think that difficulty digesting lactose could also be detrimental to the absorption of some supplements taken with milk. Obviously if you're just putting it in your protein shake it wouldn't really matter.

 

[kingjameskjf]

The potential zinc biosorptive capacity of the biomass was markedly influenced by the presence of ionic calcium. Zinc sorption decreased with increasing calcium concentrations, as expressed by zinc uptake rates. Calcium was effectively recovered only during the initial stages of the process, as expressed by the decrease in its uptake rates. Calcium uptake rates were also much higher than zinc uptake rates, indicating that calcium was preferentially recovered when compared to zinc.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12056492


So just to set myself at ease I decided to check into it further and found this. This is in direct response to the OP's question...or at least part of it.

 

[rdj6107]

thanks for the input. i will stick with using 1/2 part almond milk and 1/2 water in my protein shakes with the added supplements. and avoid ZMA and calcium to close to each other.

speaking of supplement intake, i once upon a time saw a sheet that listed numerous supplements and the best time to take them as well as with food or empty stomach. anybody got such a chart????