Methyl 4AD log

Lean One said:
At 3 mg per 20mg dose? .
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And where are you getting those conversion numbers anyway?
 
Lean One said:
At 3 mg per 20mg dose? I thought we've been through this. At high doses, E2 would only be a gram or two. At 20 to 40 mg we are talking Micrograms.Hardly enough to cause concern.
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Most woman take about 1-2mg/day of estradiol for HRT. There is one study showing that 17ß-estradiol was used at 100 µg/day. Now thats for woman who have a much HIGHER level of estrogen circulating in their body. You sure there isn't cause for concern?
 
Lean One.......good luck and I wish you success.

However, I hope you are not underestimating the possible negative effects that E2 may exhibit. I know Bobo may come across as being harsh but is trying to warn you and encourage cautious and responsible behavior.
 
Very true size. Its also because I've experienced the problems of E2 and at the time I was using Letrozole AND Proviron. Techincally I should have had very small amounts of circulating estradiol (in this case 17 methyl E2) and I still formed small pea sized lumps. This tells you just how potent it is. It can easily cause problmems in mcg's. Megadosing Nolva at 80mg/day reversed them 3 weeks later but they will still flare up form time to time when I'm using anything that aromatizes heavily.
 
Nobody knows and is the reason why these susbtances should be looked at as AAS. They are PH's creating AAS related metabolites. The only way you can judge is by looking at the target hormone and how much it aromatizes. In this case Dbol aromatizes half of what Methyl Test does but you also have to take into account dosages. The doses that Lean One is using is very tiny. The doses you and Jergo are taking seem moderate. The few peopleI know that used methyl test needed around 100mg/day to get any real positive effect as where D-bol can be anywhere from 20-40mg/day.
 
Oh, well I am not looking at it as a PH. That is for sure, I have plenty of goodies on hand if anything bad happens. And I am at 30mg a day.
 
Bobo said:
E2 at a GRAM??? Get a bra.
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That was a A TYPO. I meant to say Miligram. You agreed with my numbers in the 1,4 thread. Why give me **** about this in my thread. GOD! :rolleyes:As for my diet, I'm not even going there with you. Its not worth my time. Wanna know what my goals are? To finish my cycle in peace! If you want to know what else, reread my threads.

Size, I apreciate your concerns.Really. In spite of what Bobo would have you think, I do understand the pathways AND the risks involved. One of the main goals here is to Learn more about this compound in the real world. Thanks.
 
Deoudes59 said:
how is the cycle going
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So far after 1 week,these are my impressions...
It is becoming evident that higher doses than previously thought are needed for a decent effect. On the scale, Ive only gained 2 lbs,but my legs and abs seem more cut and my waist has gone down a half inch.My muscles are definitely fuller so in the mirror I look like I gined a little more. I'm getting stronger and the pumps are great. I will admit that I'm a little disapointed that I havn't gained more weight faster,but I think that's partly due to too low of a starting dose. This is a learning process for me. On a plus side, Even at 60mg/day, I still have no bloat or estrogenic sides. This is suprising to me. I plan to take it up to 80/day today and see what happens. The only drawback so far is having to take more. If someone were to start it at 60 to 80/day they might have a diferent experience than mine. I don't think this is as estrogenic as it appears to be on paper. The seccond week, I will be working up to 100/day. I'm curious to find out when the estrogenic sides will appear.All in all, It's not a total loss yet.
 
Lean One said:
That was a A TYPO. I meant to say Miligram. You agreed with my numbers in the 1,4 thread. Why give me **** about this in my thread. GOD! :rolleyes:As for my diet, I'm not even going there with you. Its not worth my time. Wanna know what my goals are? To finish my cycle in peace! If you want to know what else, reread my threads.

Size, I apreciate your concerns.Really. In spite of what Bobo would have you think, I do understand the pathways AND the risks involved. One of the main goals here is to Learn more about this compound in the real world. Thanks.
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They were theoretical numbers in that thread. Now your going to presume thats what actually going on?

Diet isn't worth your time? You know this is a BB'ing board right? I mean eating pizza then cutting carbs isn't exactly the best diet to be on when using androgens. If you really wanted to keep an accurate log you would think of diet.

You do not understand the pathways involved. You don't even come close.

This isn't "your" thread. This is for all of us. If you wnat to finish it in peace then don't post. You will be asked questions and you will be ciriticized here if people feel your not doing something right especially when someonme is giving you them for free. Get used to it.


Your statement of of telling people that the estrogenic sides are that much shows your complete lack of understanding of this substance. Your taking 60mg of a PRECURSOR! If it converts at even 50% which would be high your still only getting 30mg of methyl test which is NOTHING!

I love these people that quote the "real world". Next time people do an assay I'll inform them its in a fantasy world and the numbers should be throw out the window.
 
Lean One said:
In spite of what Bobo would have you think, I do understand the pathways AND the risks involved. .
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Yeah I would love too someone take 17 methyl E2 in mg's. Unbelievable. Sorry, you don't understand any of the pathways or risks involved. 17ß-estradiol was used at 100 µg/day and thats less potent. I can't imagine mg's.
 
Bobo said:
They were theoretical numbers in that thread. Now your going to presume thats what actually going on?

Diet isn't worth your time? You know this is a BB'ing board right? I mean eating pizza then cutting carbs isn't exactly the best diet to be on when using androgens. If you really wanted to keep an accurate log you would think of diet.
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Unortunately, Thats all we have to go on. If you have better information about the "mechanisms of action" of M4AD, I would love to see it.

As for as my diet, I have an Intrafitt performance nutrition certification. It is tough as hell to get. I do this for a living. The system works. It is solid.So I eat Pizza once a week. So what. You say you are not criticising me,just the compound.That's bull ****! Whatever brightens your day man. This will be my last response to you. I don't have the energy for this **** anymore. It's getting old.
 
I have told you about the mechanisms of action. Its methylated therefore its metabolites (17 methyl E2 and 17 methyl DHT being the ones to worry about) are things you should worry about. Oh its only mcg's so it won't be that bad! YEAH RIGHT! Its your stuborness thats in the way. I love how I tell you that your gains are probably just increased glycogen storage and you criticize me, then you post the exact same thing over at Avant saying your gains are only increased glyocgen storage. Then you say you want increase the dosage just to piss me off. Like I care what you do! Increase it 200mg/day and see how much I care! Its like I'm talkig to a teenager.

You say you want to give an accurate log of this substance yet you eat pizza the compensate by lowering carbs the next day? And this is in the first week! So yeah I'm criticizing you. I don't care what qualifications you have. If you don't use them, they mean nothing.

Yeah it is getting old because when its comes hormones, you don't know what your talking about.
 
How is your strength coming along?
A guy taking 250mg a day -- adding 55?lbs to his bench press.
solely on meth4ad
 
Deoudes59 said:
How is your strength coming along?
A guy taking 250mg a day -- adding 55?lbs to his bench press.
solely on meth4ad
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Huh? where did you hear that?

Strenght and endurance are slowly going up. I've added 10 to 20 lbs on most exercises.
 
Check BB.com board, again he was using 250mg -- which is alot
 
I cheked out that thread.250mg??OMG :eek: I thought I would be pushing it taking it to 100mg. Suposedly The VPX poeople have their chemists and nurses working for them, but that sounds insane. If that is how much it takes for a noticable effect then that would surely explain my lack of results with this run so far.Sldge, if you're following this, I would love to hear your thoughts on this.I'm inclined to take it up to 200 for the hell of it because at 80mg today, I've seen no maijor changes.God, at 200mg/day 1 vial would last 5 days. :confused: I have tried to keep a positive outlook so far,but this is getting frustrating.This guy said even at 250mg/day,he diddn't have any bloat or gyno. He did have all the same positive effects that I have noticed.O.K. Now I am perplexed. :confused: Should I say **** it and ramp it up to 200? At this point I just want to get whatever gains I can off this. I'm already in up to my neck. I may as well come out and say it now. At that high of a dose, it doesn't look like M4AD is Worth it.Alright my rant is over. Any input from Sldge or anyone else that can offer some guidance(even you Bobo ;) ) would be apreciated.
 
i'd say just read above for bobo's answer(s), but thats just me. i guess he could type it all out again for us, even type it out in the real world.

taking prohormones in the real world,
corey
 
Lean Out, I would be very skeptical of anything VPX says. If I'm not mistaken he's saying that M4AD is better than M1T which I find comnpletey outrageous. Maybe its because they are marketing M4AD hard since not many people have it out and they got their ass reamed for their M1T. They baiscally need something to sell you. I've heard people use much less and get estrogenic sides. You might be a lucky one that isn't sensitive to estrogenic sides. Its different for everyone.

Truthfully I tihnk sixthsense is complete bullshit artist and liar and has been proven several times. Supposedly he's is around 230lbs at 6-8% bf and he experienced a 50lb increase in strength? Sorry but that sounds a little fishy to me for someone that has trained for so long. I don't get that type of strenght on Tren or Drol over a 6-8 week peroid let alone 2 weeks!

Did you notice that the major people in that thread work for VPX?

I say try 100mg, have your Nolva on hand and chalk it up to experience. You still have your M5AA to look forward too.
 
Bobo said:
Lean Out, I would be very skeptical of anything VPX says. If I'm not mistaken he's saying that M4AD is better than M1T which I find comnpletey outrageous. Maybe its because they are marketing M4AD hard since not many people have it out and they got their ass reamed for their M1T. They baiscally need something to sell you. I've heard people use much less and get estrogenic sides. You might be a lucky one that isn't sensitive to estrogenic sides. Its different for everyone.

Truthfully I tihnk sixthsense is complete bullshit artist and liar and has been proven several times. Supposedly he's is around 230lbs at 6-8% bf and he experienced a 50lb increase in strength? Sorry but that sounds a little fishy to me for someone that has trained for so long. I don't get that type of strenght on Tren or Drol over a 6-8 week peroid let alone 2 weeks!

Did you notice that the major people in that thread work for VPX?

I say try 100mg, have your Nolva on hand and chalk it up to experience. You still have your M5AA to look forward too.
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Thats not constructive? I give up then.
 
That 50 lb gain is on a smith machine too, guys get gains like that on machines natural if they haven't been pushing it on that machine.

Lean, stick it out. You were just testing it, right? No sense risking the sides for a couple pounds, if this stuff isn't working for you then quitting it makes more sense than increasing dose.

Traps
 
Bobo said:
Thats not constructive? I give up then.
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Bobo, you must have posted that while i was typing mine. I never saw it. Having read it now, I thank you for your reply. After the last post, I downed another 40mg to total 120 today. :D Can you tell I'm getting a little cynical now? I do apreciate your input. Try to understand that this is getting frustrating for me and taking the heat from you has disrupted my vibe. It's not your fault,Thats my problem. Anyway thanks for the reply. Your input has been helpfull through all this.
 
Sounds good. This is the life of a beta tester. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Look foward to your M5AA. THats should help lighten the mood...
 
OK, New plan...

I've come to the conclusion that If I'm going to get anathing from this, I have to take it up a notch. I reread sixth sense's post, and he did 250/day for two weeks and gained 4lbs. This was with below maintenance calories and only 75gm of carbs per day. He also reported the same positive effects that I have noticed. The only negative was a mild increase in acne. No estrogenic sides :confused: . I started with 4 bottles, and the first one has about 1/3 left. If I dose it at 200 mg/day, Each bottle will last only 5 days. :eek: I have enough to last me about 17 to 19 days at that dose. So, what I'm going to do is 200/day for another 5 to 7 days and toss in the Methyl 5AA at 30mg/day untill the M4AD is gone. It's obvious now that just from a cost issue, this is not a practical supplement. Unless Sldge wants to sell it for $10 a bottle. :D Plus the issue of liver stress from this kind of dose makes it something I would not recomend to anyone. So at this point I just want to walk away from this with some decent gains, and not feel like I wasted my time. I downed 100mg this morning. I'm now squiting 5ml into a little medicine cup and tossing it back. At least I know I'm getting my omega 3"s. :D Today is back day. the workout should prove intresting. Say a prayer to the liver gods for me. :rolleyes: At least this will be a shorter cycle than what was planned.(less than 30 days.)
 
First to reiterate Bobo's post that VPX rep sixsense is a total fraud, he went by the nom-de-guerre's of theone,bodyfx etc and gave out mis-information like VPXm-1-t has less or no liver sides. I would just ignore his post about 250 m-4ad. He got flamed and banned on this site I think.

And you should have more discipline in your regiment. You started at 60mg and said that you didn't get fatter and all your exercises jumped 10-20lbs in one week. If that isn't good I don't know what will make you happy with the exception of methyl-tren.

You should stick to 100mg-120mg for this week and the next instead of wildly dosing 200mg and remember your not a big guy at 156(if I remember correctly).

Wildly dosing 200mg will not tell the rest of us what moderately high dosages will do. Since even dbol takes about a week to kick in, you're expecting too much of m-4ad.
 
I hear you man. I know all about sixth sense. I see your other points as well and I plan to be very careful watching for sides. If any estrogenic sides come up I'll use the nolva.At this point I just want to get this over with and chalk it up as a learning experience. Thanks for your concern.
 
MarcusG said:
So are you basically done with dosing at ~120mg? You're sure that it doesn't do much?
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No, I'm not sure,but I diddn't notice much diference between 40 and 80. I'm just getting tired of feeling like this is a waste. I know it sounds reckless, but at least the rest of the cycle will be under 20 days. Rest assured, I won't be doing this again. :rolleyes:
 
I think you should stick it out at the 120mg mark for another week and judge your results from that point. Jumping to 200mg and then adding 30mg of M5AA is a bit much for two basically untested products.
 
I've been thinking about it and you guys are probably right. I was thinking that since I'm dosing this much already, I may as well go all the way and keep the cycle short. A part of me doesn't like the Idea of dragging it out longer than I have to. Mabey I'll stay at 120 for a couple days and bump it up 20mg every couple days as long as the sides aren't bad. I really want to come away from this with some success.

Bobo or Sldge, I would love to hear your thoughts. I'm open to suggestions.
 
I'm with the rest holmes, you're playin' with matches right now. Be careful or you might get burnt. IMHO, if the $hit hasn't done much by now, either wait it out with the same dose, or just quit. Definately don't bump it to 200-250?? Thats just asking for trouble here, IMO. Remember, noone has ever had any tests run with this compound, so you don't really know what the thin line will be when it comes to hepatoxicity. I could see if there were actually older user reports of a certain range of dosing for preventative measures, but we don't even have that yet. I'm just lookin' out for you bro, it just seems to me that you want it to blow you up overnight, or whatever. Remember, this is a beta test, if nothing good comes out of it, thats alright, its a beta test. This is the reason we all agreed to do this in the first place.

Hope you really reevaluate your motives here, and good luck....
 
MarcusG said:
And you should have more discipline in your regiment. You started at 60mg and said that you didn't get fatter and all your exercises jumped 10-20lbs in one week. If that isn't good I don't know what will make you happy with the exception of methyl-tren.

You should stick to 100mg-120mg for this week and the next instead of wildly dosing 200mg and remember your not a big guy at 156(if I remember correctly).
.
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I think MarcusG has some good points here. If your making good strength gains than its definatley working. Think about it, halotestin won't add much weight either but that doesn't mean its not any good. Its one of the best for raw strength gains. So It sounds like you have the wrong compound for the type of results you want to see. I'm sure a powerlifter would be very happy increasing strenght that quick. Also if your only 156lbs your obviously not the easiest gainer in the world and I can't see anything putting much weight on you at one time.
 
Alright, I decided to stay at 120 for a couple days. After all, The main purpose here is to test it. I did commit to finding just what an effective dose is among other things,and It would be selfish of me to say **** it and go nuts.Sorry for the drama guys. try to bear with me. :rolleyes:
 
Well,
I have an m4ad and m5aa stack i am going to test for sledge.
But i will never use that much. Good god, this **** is methylated for christs sake.
I admit i am a newbie except for a couple of ph cycles. But i thought methyl substances were toxic to the liver.
I dont think it will be worth my time to do just a little bit of this m4ad. Plus gyno scares the hell out of me. If i get little lumps now, i could no longer experiment with any of the more effective aromitizables.

Does anyone have any suggestions on an m4ad m5aa stack?
After reading this thread i dont think it will be worth the risks involved.

I am not a hardcore beta tester so sue me.
 
Yimen E.Cricket said:
I dont think it will be worth my time to do just a little bit of this m4ad. Plus gyno scares the hell out of me. If i get little lumps now, i could no longer experiment with any of the more effective aromitizables
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You never know. It could work pretty good in a stack like that. I will say that this is the end of the seccond day at 120mg and I still don't feel any diferent. No bloat and I've been rubbing my nipples like a porn star and they feel completly normal. Go figure. My workout kicked ass today the pump was awesome and I never looked bigger. Still no change in weight though. I'll stay at 120 through tomorrow,and then I may take it up to 140mg.
 
It looks like M-4AD is a failure. Look, even if you do get some decent action at 120 mg per day, look at the expense compared to M 1-T. A days worth of M-4AD costs $0.60 while a more effective 20 mg shot of M 1-T is $0.24.

Plus the estrogen risk....I think Mrs Skark wants to have the biggest rack in the family :D

Lean, thanks for the effort dude :cool:
 
I think its better to leave Lean alone to run 120mg (or more) for at least 3 weeks. Jeez its not even 2 weeks yet and people are already saying m-4ad is an expensive titty booster.

Last I heard on this thread it puts 10-20lbs on main exercises with minimal bloat and moderate weight gain.

And theres no reason to get tits even if it doesn't work well. Just stop at the first uncomfortable signs and tell everyone, the sides aren't worth the small or moderate gains.

A potential problem is peeking into another log and getting envious you're not making the same gains. Also I shouldn't have mention the damn mental feeling of well being on one log because I could've skewed feedback.
 
Skark said:
It looks like M-4AD is a failure. Look, even if you do get some decent action at 120 mg per day, look at the expense compared to M 1-T. A days worth of M-4AD costs $0.60 while a more effective 20 mg shot of M 1-T is $0.24.

Plus the estrogen risk....I think Mrs Skark wants to have the biggest rack in the family :D

Lean, thanks for the effort dude :cool:
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It's nice that some people can see that I am not just doing this for myself,and that I am doing a service here. Thanks for the reply. I've already concluded that It's not worth it from a cost perspective, but some might disagree.Remember there are pluses about this so far. The increased strength and pumps are cool, and the mood elevation is nice.(probably not as pronounced as the 1,4 though.) Also sex drive is up. The wierd thing about that is that it seems to be improving my drive from a mental aspect. I did wake up with wood this morning too. :D So, It's not all bad.

You're right Marcus, I think I started to get discouraged when I saw the initial feedback coming from the 1,4 testers. I realised the M4AD wasn't working the way I expected it too. At the same time, I started to take a lot of heat from Bobo. Nothing personal Bobo, It's all good now, It just diddn't help my perspective. Anyway, I'm feeling better about it now, and I have a better outlook. I'm gonna see it through and try to be as thurough as possible. ;)
 
Lean One said:
It's nice that some people can see that I am not just doing this for myself,and that I am doing a service here.
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I for one appreciate what you are doing here and would like to see you finish you cycle with a moderate dose. Perhaps you will get better results towards the end. At least four weeks would be desirable.

Thanks for the effort, all in the name of science!

Greenguy
 
Greenguy said:
I for one appreciate what you are doing here and would like to see you finish you cycle with a moderate dose. Perhaps you will get better results towards the end. At least four weeks would be desirable.

Thanks for the effort, all in the name of science!

Greenguy
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Thanks Greenguy. If there are still no sides, after today at 120mg, I think I will go up 40 to 160 for 3 more days. I there is some signifigant change and it looks like a good dose, I'll stay there. If not, Then its up to 180 for 3 days. So far no maijor changes to report.

Took my BP this morning. 135/70. Totaly fine. ;)
 
Lean One said:
No, I'm not sure,but I diddn't notice much diference between 40 and 80. I'm just getting tired of feeling like this is a waste. I know it sounds reckless, but at least the rest of the cycle will be under 20 days. Rest assured, I won't be doing this again. :rolleyes:
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Like was said before - that is the life of a beta tester or lab rat. And, to be a tester who provides something worthwhile, you should not get frustrated over it, but follow the prescribed regimen to a T. It is a test - if it does not work, that is important to know. If you keep messing around with the dosing becasue of your emotional reactions to it and the posts here, how will anyone ever get anything useful out it? And a waste of what? You are a tester...that implies that there were no guarantees.

Don't let your emotions screw up the idea of learning something important.
 
Jack of Shadows said:
Like was said before - that is the life of a beta tester or lab rat. And, to be a tester who provides something worthwhile, you should not get frustrated over it, but follow the prescribed regimen to a T. It is a test - if it does not work, that is important to know. If you keep messing around with the dosing becasue of your emotional reactions to it and the posts here, how will anyone ever get anything useful out it? And a waste of what? You are a tester...that implies that there were no guarantees.

Don't let your emotions screw up the idea of learning something important.
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Yeah, I know. I'm past all that now. I'm sticking to the plan of increasing the dose every 3 days till there is some signifigant change. Good or bad. I figure 3 days should be enough time to asess the dose with a methyl. If I top out at 200 and still get no changes, then the test is over.
 
My opion...I think you should stick to a lower dose. What if 30mg a day is ideal, but it takes two weeks to see the full effect? If there is a delay in the effect of the product, you may end up with some nasty sides in your near future.

Running 200mg of an untested methyl product is a bit risky if you ask me, a few weeks of frustration is a much better result than a 'blown out' liver, 'man boobs', or a new shiny bald head.
 
Tahq said:
My opion...I think you should stick to a lower dose. What if 30mg a day is ideal, but it takes two weeks to see the full effect? If there is a delay in the effect of the product, you may end up with some nasty sides in your near future.

Running 200mg of an untested methyl product is a bit risky if you ask me, a few weeks of frustration is a much better result than a 'blown out' liver, 'man boobs', or a new shiny bald head.
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That was where I was coming from in my note, as well. Give it time.
 
Listen. I don't have to justify my actions to you or anyone. Feel free to test this out yourself using diferent parameters. I'm sticking to MY plan unless I hear otherwise from Sldge.
 
Are you sure there are no estrogenic sides? I can just imagine your hand on your hip when I read that response. No one was asking for justification - they were suggesting or asking that you approach this in a way that might ultimately be of some use.

Do whatever you like. Just realize that it will be of no real use to anyone with a brain.

Good luck!
 
It's a forgone conclusion that M4AD is not practical from a cost stanpoint and the high doses nesesary. Thats what I've learned so far. Mabey there's a reason VPX is recomending 250mg/day. Because they tested it before me. Very few people will use this. Not when you have M1,4ADD, M1-T,M-dien,and M5AA. Pesonally, I'm already stocking up on M1,4ADD. So far, those are my conclusions. I said if it wasn't worthwhile, I would admit it. JMO, it's not worthwhile. I think what I have learned so far is very useful to me. Probably others too.
 
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