Methyl 4AD log

Saturday morning... Up another pound today. This is a small milestone for me. The last time I weighed 160,I was around 15% BF. Woke up with wood the last two mornings. other than that, no changes. Did the nipple test;Nothing. No bloat either. Going up to 160mg today.

Hmmm... Just a thought. Half joking half serious. Mabey this stuff should be dosed at 1mg/lb of bodyweight?? I think I'm getting close to an effective dose.
 
Maybe...depends on how one defines practical and worthwhile. It is a compound I have been waiting to see for quite some time - not necessarily as a way to gain incredible amounts of mass, but as ongoing hormonal support - perhaps between cycles of other more effective mass builders. So I had hoped to get some indication of what would happen if it were used at moderate (reasonable?) doses over longer periods of time. Of course, I realize that most folks on these boards couldn't give a damn about that type of use for these compounds. Hence, I guess that is a test I will have to do for myself.

BTW, I applaud your willingness to post a log in any case. It seems to me that most people who do so to try to help others (of course, some do so because it is cool) catch so much crap that it is hardly worth the effort. Last time I posted results - on M1T (as an older lifter) and with which I had only modest results at best and felt that the sides, most notably the lethargy, out weighed the positives - so many people implied I was lying that I realized why I had never done so before and would not do so again.

Stomped the crap out of my prosocial behavior.
 
Jack of Shadows said:
Maybe...depends on how one defines practical and worthwhile. It is a compound I have been waiting to see for quite some time - not necessarily as a way to gain incredible amounts of mass, but as ongoing hormonal support - perhaps between cycles of other more effective mass builders. So I had hoped to get some indication of what would happen if it were used at moderate (reasonable?) doses over longer periods of time. Of course, I realize that most folks on these boards couldn't give a damn about that type of use for these compounds. Hence, I guess that is a test I will have to do for myself.

BTW, I applaud your willingness to post a log in any case. It seems to me that most people who do so to try to help others (of course, some do so because it is cool) catch so much crap that it is hardly worth the effort. Last time I posted results - on M1T (as an older lifter) and with which I had only modest results at best and felt that the sides, most notably the lethargy, out weighed the positives - so many people implied I was lying that I realized why I had never done so before and would not do so again.

Stomped the crap out of my prosocial behavior.
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Thanks for the supportive comments. One thing that I've been thinking about in regards to the gains I have made is that They seem to have come slow and steady,and despite my expectations,they are relatively lean and dry. Relative being the key word here. I was thinking that if the gains come on slower and are leaner, that it wouldn't overwhelm the body and that might mean they could be more easily retained after the cycle. Just a thought. As far as hormonal support between cycles a transdermal would siut that purpose better. Remember It is a methyl. You would also have to consider the issue of supression.
 
Sunday... Start of day 2 at 160mg. No changes to report. Just finished legs. I reinjured by back on my last set of squats w/200 on my back. I have a herniated disc as a reminder of my years as a manual laborer. It wasn't too bad; It could have been worse. I racked it after 2 reps. Still, This is not good. I was able to finish up with leg extentions and calf work. I think my days of squating may be over. We'll see. This shouldn't affect my other workouts, I just have to be careful and take care of this. It sucks none the less. :(
 
Monday... Up another pound. BP unchanged. No sides. Day 2 at 160mg. I think the idea of dosing at 1mg/lb of bodyweight might have some merrit. I'd be curious to know your thoughts on this so far Sldge,if you are following this. I'm taking today off except for cardio. Want to give the back some rest.I should be OK in a couple days.

I would also like some opinions on how to incorperate the M5AA into this. Tomorow will be 2 weeks and I was thinking of not going longer than 4 weeks. I was wondering if it would make any diference if I Ran the two together for the last 2 weeks, or If I just ran the M5AA alone for the last 2 weeks.Any opinions?
 
size said:
How many lbs are you up in total?
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4lbs. I know it doesn't sound like much,but I think that is partly due to the fact that my starting dose was so low. I think I started to get to an effective dose around 120mg. Ive been doing 160mg for a couple days and I think it's making a diference. Sill no sides. I'll stay here for 1 more day, Then it's up to 200. That's where I'm drawing the line. If I like what 200mg is doing then I might stay there for a week before I add the M5AA.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
Are you noticing any sides at that high a dose?
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To my suprise(and probably a few others), ZERO sides. No bloat, Nips feel totaly normal, and my Blood pressure is unchanged since the start of the cycle.(avg. 135/70)
 
Thanks for being so patient with the dosing, I wasnt goingto be like VPX and have everyone start using 250mg twice a day. That is just too much.
 
Designer Supps said:
Thanks for being so patient with the dosing, I wasnt goingto be like VPX and have everyone start using 250mg twice a day. That is just too much.
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I hear you.Do you have any suggestions on how to incorporate the M5AA? My plan is to see what 200mg/day will do and then add the M5AA along with it at 30mg/day. By then I should have less that 2 weeks left of M4AD at 200mg. I will use the M5AA at 30mg/day till the bottle's empty. If you have other ideas let me know. ;)
 
Lean One said:
No. 4AD does not convert to dht. This hasn't been a problem for me either.
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But methyl test does (17 methyl DHT to be exact). If you take enough it can easily be a problem to those already prone to MPB.
 
Lean One said:
I hear you.Do you have any suggestions on how to incorporate the M5AA? My plan is to see what 200mg/day will do and then add the M5AA along with it at 30mg/day. By then I should have less that 2 weeks left of M4AD at 200mg. I will use the M5AA at 30mg/day till the bottle's empty. If you have other ideas let me know. ;)
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Please tell me your not going to use M5AA and M4AD together.
 
Bobo said:
But methyl test does (17 methyl DHT to be exact). If you take enough it can easily be a problem to those already prone to MPB.
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That's true. All I'm saying is that This hasn't been a problem so far,and I do have a slowly receeding hairline. Just trying to convey my experience here. Everybody is diferent.
 
Bobo said:
Please tell me your not going to use M5AA and M4AD together.
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Like I said, I am open to suggestions on this one. I'm well aware of the taboo of stacking methyls. I don't mean to minimize the risk. What I would like to know, is what would a veteran AAS user do If he were running a cycle like this of the equivilent steroids. I want to know if I drop the 4AD and start M5AA by itself, will it affect my gains at all at the end of the cycle? If there is no diference, I'll just finish the M4AD at 200/day (mabey higher) and then start the M5AA olone for 2 weeks.

I'm asking for advice here Bobo. I just want to use these in the best manner possible.
 
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The best manner possible is not doing what your doing. Your beta testing for someone else so bascially this cycle is not "for you". Stacking methyls is dumb (sorry, no other way to put it). You seem so desperate to get some sort of gains your willing to increase doses beyond what most people would use and also stack another methyl. If that doesn't tell you something, nothing will. You are being to impatient. You are beta testing for someone else. Stacking other products when you havne';t even finished the first one will alter your results and not give an accurate log. Just chill out and finish the M4AD first.

If your bent on using both, use the M4AD until you finish your beta testing then start on the M5AA. I suggest getting some trandersmal 4AD for that M5AA (unless your beta testing that one also ). In that case then you should do PCT, recovery then beta test the M5AA to get accurate results. Running it right after you just finished something else won't give an accurate log IMO.

A vet wouldn't run a cyucle like this at all because a vet would never use methyl test to being with (you said eqivalent). He would never stack orals and would probably run one oral for 4 weeks to kickstart the cycle.
 
Thanks Bobo. I'll run the M4AD alone til it's gone. Going up to 200mg tomorrow. I don't know if I will go any higher. At that rate, 1 bottle will last only 5 days. :eek: I have 2 and 1/2 left. I think for me, 200 will do the trick. I'm up 4lbs now. If I keep gaining slow and steady like this, I could be up 8 to 10 lbs by the end. Thats not too bad all things considered. I'm not testing the M5AA so I'll use it for a couple weeks as soon as the M4AD is finished. I'm hoping it will help me hold onto my gains while I increase the cardio to carve up the abs. Thanks for the advice.
 
OK, Today is the official 2 week mark. I'm up 4.5 lbs. Actually I think it's more like a solid 5lb gain,because I have been doubling up on cardio doing close to 2 hrs a day witch is making my abs and obliques come in nice now. It is also worth mentioning that 3 of theese pounds have come over the last 5 days witch is when I stared dosing at 160mg and up. I think most of the first week was wasted on an inadequate dose. Going up to 200 today. So far, still ZERO negative sides. The acne isn't even that bad. At 200mg/day I have a little under 2 weeks left. I'll probably stay at 200 until it's gone. I think I could end up with some decent gains here by the time this is over. I'd be curious to see what would happen if someone else used this and started at the 1mg/lb dose. That could prove to be intresting. Just be prepared to lay out some ca$h. :eek: Mabey Sldge would be willing to provide an ample supply to a willing guinnea pig. :D
 
I am working on changing the dose of mg per ml. This way you will get more out of the bottle. I really think that the conversion to methyltest isnt that good and that most of these results are coming from intrinsic value of M4AD. Lets pretend that there is a 15% conversion to methyltest, leaving 85% unconverted, and still active. If 75% of the remaining 85% were active that might explain why you are getting normal results not typically seen with MT. At 200mg per daythe acne should be out of control and there should definetly be estrogen related sides, more then what normal 4 ad would be producing. If you want to extend the cycle length I ll send you 2 more bottles which should give you enough for 2 extra weeks. Let me know.
 
Designer Supps said:
I am working on changing the dose of mg per ml. This way you will get more out of the bottle. I really think that the conversion to methyltest isnt that good and that most of these results are coming from intrinsic value of M4AD. Lets pretend that there is a 15% conversion to methyltest, leaving 85% unconverted, and still active. If 75% of the remaining 85% were active that might explain why you are getting normal results not typically seen with MT. At 200mg per daythe acne should be out of control and there should definetly be estrogen related sides, more then what normal 4 ad would be producing. If you want to extend the cycle length I ll send you 2 more bottles which should give you enough for 2 extra weeks. Let me know.
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I totally agree with everything you just said. I've been thinking the same thing. I just may take you up on that offer. I'll know before I start the last bottle. If I do that, I'll put the M5AA on the back burner. I still wouldn't want to take the cycle out longer than 6 weeks though. I'll let you know. :cool:
 
Even if you have never seen the negative estrogen related side effects -- would it be wise to take an anti-e while on M4AD? Or will it be safe without?
 
Deoudes59 said:
Even if you have never seen the negative estrogen related side effects -- would it be wise to take an anti-e while on M4AD? Or will it be safe without?
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That's part of what we are trying to figure out. My guess is no, but that is just my experience. I could ba a lucky one that is less sensitive to the sides.Somebody else might be more sensitive or have pre-existing issues that would warrant the use of an ante E . So far all I can say is that this compound hasn't acted the way I or others have expected it to. My gains so far have been lean and bloat free. Good quality gains. :)
 
Thursday morning... I had to double check the scale this morning. 162 Baby! :cool: That's 5 solid lbs. Honestly, I was expecting to be down a bit because I've been doing close to 2 hrs of cardio a day for the last 3 days. I'm getting leaner. The fat falls off when I do that. In spite of that, I have gained a half lb a day over the last 3 days. I'm starting to get exited now. I decided to take Sldge up on his offer to send more stuff so I can extend the cycle at this higher dose. If I get enough,(hint,hint) :D I would like to dose at 250 or so (mabey higher) as long as I still have no sides.I cant wait to see how the gains are in the 3rd and 4th week. This is starting to get good. :cool:
 
Friday... Weight is down a bit. I was expecting that though. It's definitely fat. My upper oblique area is leaning out. This is like the home stretch interms of fat loss for me. I start to get cut at the level of my upper chest and abs, then It continues down til all that's left is a little lower ab, and back fat.My arms are looking more vascular too. That's another sign as well. I'm gonna rest today with the exception of cardio. I'll probably increase calories a little so I can at least hold my weight while I get leaner. I'm determined to keep it above 160. So far so good. :cool:
 
Saturday... I'm definitly liking this more and more at 200mg/day. My back/bi workout was insane today. My arms are so vascular and I have no sub Q fat on then so the pump made them look unreal. They never looked better. Tomorrow I will start dosing at 250mg/day to see if it makes any diference. I think it will. If anyone is thinking about using this I would suggest starting around 150 to 200/day. I'm convinced now that the first week was wasted on an inadequate dose. Ever since I started dosing 160 to 200, I have really liked it. It would be intresting to see someone start from there and get their impressions.
 
No hair problems right? Are you prone to MPB?
Forgive me if I already asked this....
Looks like 200mg+ is blowing you up
 
Deoudes59 said:
No hair problems right? Are you prone to MPB?
Forgive me if I already asked this....
Looks like 200mg+ is blowing you up
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No hair problems. And all the men in my family including me have receeding hairlines. :p I don't care though. neither does my wife. When it reaches a certain point I will break out the mach 3 :D

Lastly, YES 200 is doing me very nicely. can't wait to see what 250 does.

One more thing. Like I said, so far ZERO sides and the gains are nice and lean. My muscles are feeling full and hard. I wasn't expecting that.

Edit... I decidedto take a BP reading before I go up to 250mg tomorow.
132/69. How ya like them apples? :cool:
 
good stuff man, watch your strength for me when you go over 200mg
 
Ok so I just read the last 3 pages of this thread for the first time. So 200mg+? Since this is a beta test, and not many people at all have used this compound and have had blood work done, how do you know if M4AD is any more or less toxic than other methyls? I mean if somebody were to run 50mg of M1T and keep a log here, everybody on the board would ****. And this is 200mg+. I know that methyl-X could be more toxic than methyl-Y (methyl-tren compared to DBOL), but how do we have any idea just how toxic M4AD is?
 
I find it interesting that everyone initially was up in arms about sixthsense's 250mg/day, and now we see Lean One breaking the 200 mg/day barrier. Not to say this is a good idea, but sometimes it's funny how things play out.
 
supersoldier said:
Ok so I just read the last 3 pages of this thread for the first time. So 200mg+? Since this is a beta test, and not many people at all have used this compound and have had blood work done, how do you know if M4AD is any more or less toxic than other methyls? I mean if somebody were to run 50mg of M1T and keep a log here, everybody on the board would ****. And this is 200mg+. I know that methyl-X could be more toxic than methyl-Y (methyl-tren compared to DBOL), but how do we have any idea just how toxic M4AD is?
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I have no clue. :confused: Did I say definitively less toxic? Nope. Some of us have speculated that, but that's all it is... Speculation. I was hoping that you might be willing to help us find out. I already said I'm not exited about having to to take so much, but this is a test and I'm aleady in knee deep.
 
GhostfaceKillah said:
I find it interesting that everyone initially was up in arms about sixthsense's 250mg/day, and now we see Lean One breaking the 200 mg/day barrier. Not to say this is a good idea, but sometimes it's funny how things play out.
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Yes, I agree. I said earlier that there was probably a reason they were recomending that much. Because they tested it long before me.

Let me just restate a few things so people don't jump down my throat.

1. In light of the fact that it takes this much to be effective, I'm still not sure this would be a good idea. That's obvious. The whole toxicity issue is a big unknown.

2. I'm not sure if It can be made cost effective. $30 a bottle for a 5 day supply at 200mg isn't that great of a deal. :rolleyes: I imagine some big guys might need around 300mg. :eek:

3. Lastly, This is a test and so far a lot has been learned. I'm going to follow through with it to the end. At least I've come to a point where I'm making some nice gains,but I probably won't go this route again.Due to the above 2 reasons.
 
Bro you gave it a shot, although most knew the outcome. I doubt this product will be on the market by DS. The results are subpar and you can get far better and safer gains with different compounds. With the amount needed, toxicity issues that accompany them, and price for a cycle it's laughable. Lean One although it does come with the territory of testing products I'll give you a bump taking a lot of **** and keeping the thread updated. have a good one, J
 
Lean One said:
I have no clue. :confused: Did I say definitively less toxic? Nope. Some of us have speculated that, but that's all it is... Speculation. I was hoping that you might be willing to help us find out. I already said I'm not exited about having to to take so much, but this is a test and I'm aleady in knee deep.
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I'd like to help out but it doesn't seem like testing this is worth my while. I really commend you for testing it and I'm not knocking the product, I just have better things to do with my time and resources, like test the Methyl-dien :D :D :D
 
your cost effective thing is a non-issue. by the gram it is very cheap, and is sold by this weight in powder form. i am not opining on the quality of m-4-ad as a substance as compared to the others, but price is not an issue if you buy it in powder form. it's $5 a gram in powder form. at 200 mg a day, that would be 25 days for $5 (plus the cost of the carrier, which would probably be no more than $1-$2. is it really that hard to make your OWN oral solution/suspension? that's a rhetorical question. you pay a lot more for convenience, if you buy it already in liquid form. DS offers it in powder form, and that is the way to buy it for cost effectiveness.

i also agree with DS that (in general) esterified prohormones (1-test cyp, 4-ad prop, etc.) placed into solution or even unesterified prohormones placed into suspension for injection are going to be better/safer/more effective options, in general, than methyls. pinning is NOT illegal, contrary to popular belief. substances are, or are not illegal. converting a legal substance into an injectable form is not illegal, unless the parent substance itself is illegal. for those who have valid reasons for not pinning, that's fine. but for those who want to use solely methyls to avoid the pain or stigma of pinning, that would be silly. pinning ph's is legal, incredibly effective, and very cheap. 4-ad base, which makes a decent suspension is under $1 a gram. it doesn't get much cheaper than that.
 
jjjd said:
your cost effective thing is a non-issue. by the gram it is very cheap, and is sold by this weight in powder form. i am not opining on the quality of m-4-ad as a substance as compared to the others, but price is not an issue if you buy it in powder form. it's $5 a gram in powder form. at 200 mg a day, that would be 25 days for $5 (plus the cost of the carrier, which would probably be no more than $1-$2. is it really that hard to make your OWN oral solution/suspension? that's a rhetorical question. you pay a lot more for convenience, if you buy it already in liquid form. DS offers it in powder form, and that is the way to buy it for cost effectiveness.

i also agree with DS that (in general) esterified prohormones (1-test cyp, 4-ad prop, etc.) placed into solution or even unesterified prohormones placed into suspension for injection are going to be better/safer/more effective options, in general, than methyls. pinning is NOT illegal, contrary to popular belief. substances are, or are not illegal. converting a legal substance into an injectable form is not illegal, unless the parent substance itself is illegal. for those who have valid reasons for not pinning, that's fine. but for those who want to use solely methyls to avoid the pain or stigma of pinning, that would be silly. pinning ph's is legal, incredibly effective, and very cheap. 4-ad base, which makes a decent suspension is under $1 a gram. it doesn't get much cheaper than that.
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Many valid points. Duely noted. ;)
 
jjjd said:
your cost effective thing is a non-issue. by the gram it is very cheap, and is sold by this weight in powder form. i am not opining on the quality of m-4-ad as a substance as compared to the others, but price is not an issue if you buy it in powder form. it's $5 a gram in powder form. at 200 mg a day, that would be 25 days for $5 (plus the cost of the carrier, which would probably be no more than $1-$2. is it really that hard to make your OWN oral solution/suspension? that's a rhetorical question. you pay a lot more for convenience, if you buy it already in liquid form. DS offers it in powder form, and that is the way to buy it for cost effectiveness.
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Now, let's see - there's a problem in your math somewhere -

1 gram equals 1000mg....at 200 mg per day that is 5 days per gram (1000/200), or about 1$ per day. Not terribly expensive but not as cheap as you thought...
 
If you homebrew, the cost definitely isn't bad. But do you or anyone else really want to down 2 or 3 hundred mg of a methyl to get results?? Like I said, the only reason I'm doing this much is because I'm testing this and I'm already in knee deep. Oh, and I kinda like the results i'm getting now. ;)
 
Exactly this compound is not good. Why would you buy it and have to take 200mg of a methylated substance. I don't get it, what are people thinking here?
 
jack of shadows, you are right. $1 a day for the hormone. bad arithmetic. numberz r harde. lol. lol. :)

and as i said, i am not saying this is a good compound, merely commenting on the price. imo, injectables, since they are completely legal and much safer, are almost always a better choice. probably so, when one considers taking 200mg a day of a methylated compound - m-4-ad. otoh, i think methyldi does sound incredibly intriguing. and m-1-t is definitely very effective
 
Tuesday... Nothing maijor to report exept that I decided to increase my calories a little, and my weight is going back up slowly. I have never been this lean while eating this many calories in my life. This is definitely above maintenance cals for me and I'm leaning out. I'll try to keep this trend going.
 
Gonna catch **** for this one

Liver Toxicity.........Has anyone read the Article on the "Article" forum about toxicity. It seems to blow everyone's theory on the toxicity of Methylated compounds. Yeah, they ARE bad. If one were to do a 4-6wk cycle of Jack Daniels everyday, you would be drunk everyday, not DEAD. Toxicity and its negative side affects are seen from Years of constant abuse not 4-6 week cycles with solid PCT afterwards. A 4-6 week cycle of McDonalds 4 times a day is more harmful than combining M1T and M4AD in my opinion. Bobo, you have got to be one of the most knowledgeable (and sarcastic) persons on any board, and although your concerns are genuine, I believe they are at the extreme end of the parameter. Your liver's function is to filter out harmful substances and it is built to last a LIFETIME not just to make it through a cycle of methylated compounds.

I'm at 30mg of M1T daily, started 3rd week yesterday, up 8 pounds and lethargy is what is killing me! Great ****, but need injectable caffeine to stack with it
 
Thanks to lean ones test, I have changed the dose on the oral solution to 30mgs/ml and the tabs when they are done will be 50mg tabs. This will allow for the correct dosing at a much better price and longer supply.
 
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