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Mesomorph finally getting dethroned? Extreme dust!

Spurfy said:
Awesome! An irresponsibly-high dose of caffeine, a mislabeled dose of DMAE, carcinogenic artificial sweeteners, and neurotoxic artificial colors! Count me in!

Seriously, if you need this crap to lift, then maybe you should choose a different hobby.
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mislabeled dose of DMAE? what are you talking about?

brb, carbohydrates are carcinogenic. if you need carbs to live, then maybe you should choose a different hobby
 
VaughnTrue said:
mislabeled dose of DMAE? what are you talking about?
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There's over a pound of DMAE per serving?

brb, carbohydrates are carcinogenic. if you need carbs to live, then maybe you should choose a different hobby
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Really? I'm an established biomedical researcher and this is certainly new to me. Why don't you do us all a favor then, and describe for us the precise mechanisms of carbohydrate carcinogenicity. And don't cut and paste, and don't paste a link. I want *your* description based on *your* understanding, since your unqualified statement clearly shows that you fancy yourself an expert in biochemistry.
 
Spurfy said:
There's over a pound of DMAE per serving?



Really? I'm an established biomedical researcher and this is certainly new to me. Why don't you do us all a favor then, and describe for us the precise mechanisms of carbohydrate carcinogenicity. And don't cut and paste, and don't paste a link. I want *your* description based on *your* understanding, since your unqualified statement clearly shows a very strong belief in this.
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lol oh man, ok lets have some fun today shall we?

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"White bread, bagels and rice 'increase the risk of lung cancer by 49%','' the Mail Online reports after a US study found a link between lung cancer and eating a diet with a high glycaemic index (GI), a measure of carbohydrate content.
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Over the last years, evidence has accumulated suggesting that by systematically reducing the amount of dietary carbohydrates (CHOs) one could suppress, or at least delay, the emergence of cancer, and that proliferation of already existing tumor cells could be slowed down. This hypothesis is supported by the association between modern chronic diseases like the metabolic syndrome and the risk of developing or dying from cancer. CHOs or glucose, to which more complex carbohydrates are ultimately digested, can have direct and indirect effects on tumor cell proliferation: first, contrary to normal cells, most malignant cells depend on steady glucose availability in the blood for their energy and biomass generating demands and are not able to metabolize significant amounts of fatty acids or ketone bodies due to mitochondrial dysfunction. Second, high insulin and insulin-like growth factor (IGF)-1 levels resulting from chronic ingestion of CHO-rich Western diet meals, can directly promote tumor cell proliferation via the insulin/IGF1 signaling pathway. Third, ketone bodies that are elevated when insulin and blood glucose levels are low, have been found to negatively affect proliferation of different malignant cells in vitro or not to be usable by tumor cells for metabolic demands, and a multitude of mouse models have shown antitumorigenic properties of very low CHO ketogenic diets. In addition, many cancer patients exhibit an altered glucose metabolism characterized by insulin resistance and may profit from an increased protein and fat intake. In this review, we address the possible beneficial effects of low CHO diets on cancer prevention and treatment. Emphasis will be placed on the role of insulin and IGF1 signaling in tumorigenesis as well as altered dietary needs of cancer patients.
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There are infinite amount of correlations between everything and cancer, thus why I mentioned something like Carbohydrates as to never eat carbs due to fear of cancer is asinine, just as never having artificial sweeteners for the same fear is asinine.
 
Were you going to accept my challenge, or are you choosing to back down?

I challenged *you* to explain the mechanisms, not cut and paste something you clearly don't understand.

You made a statement of fact, now back it up.
 
Spurfy said:
Were you going to accept my challenge, or are you choosing to back down?

I challenged *you* to explain the mechanisms, not cut and paste something you clearly don't understand.
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my innate knowledge of the processes themselves has nothing to do with the ultimate truth behind the claim. I don't claim to be a scientist, nor do I claim to know everything about everything out there.

if you'd like to refute the links/info I posted, by all means please do so, or you could start by proving that artificial sweeteners conclusively cause cancer at suggested daily doses, or you could post some of your published work and proof that you are the author...any of those 3 sounds like some fun times for the day!
 
VaughnTrue said:
my innate knowledge of the processes themselves has nothing to do with the ultimate truth behind the claim. I don't claim to be a scientist, nor do I claim to know everything about everything out there.

if you'd like to refute the links/info I posted, by all means please do so, or you could start by proving that artificial sweeteners conclusively cause cancer at suggested daily doses, or you could post some of your published work and proof that you are the author...any of those 3 sounds like some fun times for the day!
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I'm not having a biochemisty discussion with someone who doesn't understand biochemisty. Put up, or shut up.
 
VaughnTrue said:
lol oh man, ok lets have some fun today shall we?

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There are infinite amount of correlations between everything and cancer, thus why I mentioned something like Carbohydrates as to never eat carbs due to fear of cancer is asinine, just as never having artificial sweeteners for the same fear is asinine.
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My thoughts exactly when I read his post... everything now adays can have a link to cancer for god sakes, just have some balance. Also why are you bashing a product for no reason? That dose of caffeine has been studied to help insulin sensitivity and actually has a host of heart benefits. But yes, let's tout our intelligence around as if we're god and think that allows us to freely bash anything. I feel bad you always have to deal with the Vaughn.
 
Spurfy said:
I'm not having a biochemisty discussion with someone who doesn't understand biochemisty. Put up, or shut up.
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So show your superiority, and link me to your published papers proving how much more intelligent you are than anyone else on this forum...and make sure to include proof that you're the author!



you made a claim, it's on you to prove it. Not the other way around. If you want to claim artificial sweeteners cause cancer, "put up or shut up"



and on a serious note, why are you so angry? I know it's Monday, but life is good man! Sun is out, birds are singing, smile a little bit!
 
YoungBodyBuil said:
My thoughts exactly when I read his post... everything now adays can have a link to cancer for god sakes, just have some balance. Also why are you bashing a product for no reason? That dose of caffeine has been studied to help insulin sensitivity and actually has a host of heart benefits. But yes, let's tout our intelligence around as if we're god and think that allows us to freely bash anything. I feel bad you always have to deal with the Vaughn.
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Yes, God forbid anyone challenge anything. We should just accept everything as fact, all of the time. And poor, poor Vaughn, being asked to back up his absolutely ludicrous statement that carbohydrates are carcinogenic. Carbohydrates do not bind to DNA adducts, they are not carcinogenic. This is a fact.
 
Spurfy said:
I'm not having a biochemisty discussion with someone who doesn't understand biochemisty. Put up, or shut up.
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Get in touch with GorillaChemist who designed/formulated Dust Extreme, he is a biochemist and works in the field maybe you can flex the epeen with him ;)

Scare mongering with cancer claims 0 proof typical..
 
VaughnTrue said:
So show your superiority, and link me to your published papers proving how much more intelligent you are than anyone else on this forum...and make sure to include proof that you're the author!
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This forum has yet to earn this gift.

you made a claim, it's on you to prove it. Not the other way around. If you want to claim artificial sweeteners cause cancer, "put up or shut up"
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Sucralose damages DNA (1), which is the mechanism of carcinogenicity (2). Moreoever, heating it releases chloropropanols (3), which are genotoxic and carcinogenic (4).

and on a serious note, why are you so angry? I know it's Monday, but life is good man! Sun is out, birds are singing, smile a little bit!
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Typical non-scientist -- confuses proper scientific discourse with anger.

Are we having fun, now?


1. Mutat Res. 2002 Aug 26;519(1-2):103-19.
2. Discov Med. 2012 Oct;14(77):283-8.
3. Hutchinson S. A. The effect of pH, temperature and reactants on the thermal and non-thermal degradation of the high-intensity sweeteners: Alitame and sucralose. 1996. PhD dissertation. New Brunswick, NJ: Rutgers University.
4. Food and chemical toxicology: an international journal published for the British Industrial Biological Research Association 58 · May 2013
 
Spurfy said:
Awesome! An irresponsibly-high dose of caffeine, a mislabeled dose of DMAE, carcinogenic artificial sweeteners, and neurotoxic artificial colors! Count me in!

Seriously, if you need this crap to lift, then maybe you should choose a different hobby.
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The DMAE dose was likely just a mistake by the designer; it looks like they put g instead of mg. Things like that happen.
 
no, I didn't confuse discourse with anger, I correlated you talking like a smug know-it-all for anger/idiocy.


Brb, the same mechanisms you just claimed can be said exactly the same for high glycemic carbohydrates, yet nope, carbs aren't carcinogenic...but the artificial sweeteners which have never been able to be directly correlated to cancer unless given at INSANE doses in rats, absolutely are.


and I thought we couldn't post links? where are YOUR published papers showing how smart you apparently are?
 
Spurfy said:
Typical non-scientist -- confuses proper scientific discourse with anger.

Are we having fun, now?
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I'm all for scientific discourse, I love it in fact, but you did, intentionally or otherwise, come off as somewhat conformational in your initial comments and bashing of the product.
 
Spurfy said:
Typical non-scientist -- confuses proper scientific discourse with anger.

Are we having fun, now?
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I'm all for scientific discourse, I love it in fact, but you did, intentionally or otherwise, come off as somewhat conformational in your initial comments and bashing of the product.
 
VaughnTrue said:
no, I didn't confuse discourse with anger, I correlated you talking like a smug know-it-all for anger/idiocy.


Brb, the same mechanisms you just claimed can be said exactly the same for high glycemic carbohydrates, yet nope, carbs aren't carcinogenic...but the artificial sweeteners which have never been able to be directly correlated to cancer unless given at INSANE doses in rats, absolutely are.


and I thought we couldn't post links? where are YOUR published papers showing how smart you apparently are?
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You're right. I have completely and utterly lost this argument. I will now bow out gracefully and yield to your vastly superior knowledge.
 
Post up links to published research. Otherwise, not impressed. You can claim anything you want, that doesn't mean people actually believe what you say.
 
Spurfy said:
I cited sources demonstrating that sucralose is carcinogenic. You failed to formulate a proper rebuttal. This discussion is over.
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I cited sources demonstrating that high glycemic carbohydrates are carcigogenic and express a 49% increase in lung cancer in humans.

You failed to formulate a proper rebuttal.

This discussion is over.




So...where are your published articles?
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I'm all for scientific discourse, I love it in fact, but you did, intentionally or otherwise, come off as somewhat conformational in your initial comments and bashing of the product.
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That was not my intention -- I was just hoping for a lively debate. I apologize if my tone was perceived as offensive. I respectfully withdraw from this discussion.
 
janson_kaniaz said:
planning to give this a try. any store selling this with international shipping?
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Now that the dust has settled (pun intended) we ship internationally.

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well that made for a interesting lunch time read lol

Anyone try the Pineapple mango Dust Extreme yet? Have heard from a few that the Sour Gummy bear was so-so, just wondering which is better between the 2
 
Sour gummy bear tastes like a flintstone vitamin, but effectivness is what i look for not sum sweet candy flavor. And dust sure delivers!! Best PWO in my opinion
 
carguy123 said:
Anyone try the Pineapple mango Dust Extreme yet? Have heard from a few that the Sour Gummy bear was so-so, just wondering which is better between the 2
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Scroll back to post #236....I posted my brief review there. In short, I think the Pineapple Mango is pretty tasty.
 
VaughnTrue said:
lol i enjoy yohimbine too, but it makes me nervous in blends personally. too much of that, and its worse than too much clen at one time. no bueno
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This. Took 9 caps yesterday and developed parkinsons
 
horizons said:
Has anyone tried iforce dexaprine (w/ Dmaa)
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Yep, and I like it much better than Mesomorph on a pure energy/mood/euphoria level. I am extremely stim tolerant, so one heaping scoop of Mesomorph gives me good, clean energy. A 1/2 tab of OG Dexaprine hits me way harder - to the point that I wouldn't want to work out on it. It would just be too much. But for productivity, OG Dexaprine is solid.

I am also giving Ignit3 another try. I bought a bottle when it first came out, but the energy off three caps felt dirty (jittery, nausea, etc.). However, I think it's because I had been taking other supplements/stims earlier in the day that may have interacted. Yesterday I tried 3 caps about an hour after drinking a cup of coffee and I felt great.
 
BRUstrong said:
Yep, and I like it much better than Mesomorph on a pure energy/mood/euphoria level. I am extremely stim tolerant, so one heaping scoop of Mesomorph gives me good, clean energy. A 1/2 tab of OG Dexaprine hits me way harder - to the point that I wouldn't want to work out on it. It would just be too much. But for productivity, OG Dexaprine is solid.

I am also giving Ignit3 another try. I bought a bottle when it first came out, but the energy off three caps felt dirty (jittery, nausea, etc.). However, I think it's because I had been taking other supplements/stims earlier in the day that may have interacted. Yesterday I tried 3 caps about an hour after drinking a cup of coffee and I felt great.
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Nice that's what I wanted to hear! I never got the chance to try the OG
 
Contaygious said:
Mesomorph is banned right? What happens to this?
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MesoMorph isn't banned..misinformation that the DMAA in it is banned..HiTech suing FDA over that issue
 
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