Men Vs. Women - A Theory

[Beau]

I have the following theory, and welcome your observations.

Generally:

1. Men do not understand women, or the way women think. However, men realize that they do not understand women, or the way women think. Men understand that they did not grow up being a woman, know that there are huge differences between men and women, and know they cannot possibly know or understand women, or the way women think.

2. Women do not understand men, or the way men think. However, unlike men, women do not realize that they do not understand men, or the way men think. In fact, women believe they understand men and why they do what they do - enough to tell the man why he is wrong. While Women understand that they did not grow up a man, they believe there are some differences between men and women that can be overcome by explaining their emotions, and they do not fully understand that they cannot possibly know or understand men, or the way men think.

This may sound funny or as if I am joking - but this is serious conjecture on my part.

Do you agree with 1. and 2. above?

 

[ChocolateClen]

It’s the same thing. Both are true.

 

[hairygrandpa]

As a man, if you want understand woman, just take 300mg clomid x day.

A good woman is entitled to think she understands men. She also is strong enough to keep her opinions to herself.

 

[chem.jr.]

I have the following theory, and welcome your observations.

Generally:

1. Men do not understand women, or the way women think. However, men realize that they do not understand women, or the way women think. Men understand that they did not grow up being a woman, know that there are huge differences between men and women, and know they cannot possibly know or understand women, or the way women think.

2. Women do not understand men, or the way men think. However, unlike men, women do not realize that they do not understand men, or the way men think. In fact, women believe they understand men and why they do what they do - enough to tell the man why he is wrong. While Women understand that they did not grow up a man, they believe there are some differences between men and women that can be overcome by explaining their emotions, and they do not fully understand that they cannot possibly know or understand men, or the way men think.

This may sound funny or as if I am joking - but this is serious conjecture on my part.

Do you agree with 1. and 2. above?

Absolutely 110% brother! I tried to make this exact point almost verbatim to my ex and she basically completely denied that there was any truth to what I was saying which only proves number two even more so. I think it has something to do with estrogen being the dominant hormone because I have met women that you can tell their estrogen is on the lower end of things and they probably naturally have high testosterone levels as well and I can think of two women like that who actually have agreed with your theory and said fair enough but the ones where you can tell estrogen is most definitely dominant those women fit number 2 to a T. Now I'm going to go back and read everybody else's responses because mine is more important obviously

 

[chem.jr.]

As a man, if you want understand woman, just take 300mg clomid x day.

A good woman is entitled to think she understands men. She also is strong enough to keep her opinions to herself.

And Grandpa Nails it again! I really wish you were in the states and if you ever are I don't really care where you are I will come meet you and buy you a beer a burger and a woman because I have learned / reaffirmed so many thoughts and theories in my life reading your posts it makes me so much more comfortable with who I am. And it also makes me realize that I probably won't find a woman I like until I start hanging out at Salsa bars and meet a Hispanic woman has been raised in a household where the man is the man and the mom is the mom because I feel like that's the best combo and it worked for a really really long time up until the past 10 years or so and because my generation sucks and men are supposed to be beta bitch soyboys and bow down to the almighty estrogen and I'm sorry but I just cannot do that. Not saying that men are superior because I believe it takes both sides. I just really hate soy.

 

[chem.jr.]

As a man, if you want understand woman, just take 300mg clomid x day.

A good woman is entitled to think she understands men. She also is strong enough to keep her opinions to herself.

And Grandpa Nails it again! I really wish you were in the states and if you ever are I don't really care where you are I will come meet you and buy you a beer a burger and a woman because I have learned / reaffirmed so many thoughts and theories in my life reading your posts it makes me so much more comfortable with who I am. And it also makes me realize that I probably won't find a woman I like until I start hanging out at Salsa bars and meet a Hispanic woman has been raised in a household where the man is the man and the mom is the mom because I feel like that's the best combo and it worked for a really really long time up until the past 10 years or so and because my generation sucks and men are supposed to be beta bitch soyboys and bow down to the almighty estrogen and I'm sorry but I just cannot do that. Not saying that men are superior because I believe it takes both sides. I just really hate soy.

 

[BennyMagoo79]

All you are doing is confirming your own internal bias.

 

[hairygrandpa]

And Grandpa Nails it again! I really wish you were in the states and if you ever are I don't really care where you are I will come meet you and buy you a beer a burger and a woman because I have learned / reaffirmed so many thoughts and theories in my life reading your posts it makes me so much more comfortable with who I am. And it also makes me realize that I probably won't find a woman I like until I start hanging out at Salsa bars and meet a Hispanic woman has been raised in a household where the man is the man and the mom is the mom because I feel like that's the best combo and it worked for a really really long time up until the past 10 years or so and because my generation sucks and men are supposed to be beta bitch soyboys and bow down to the almighty estrogen and I'm sorry but I just cannot do that. Not saying that men are superior because I believe it takes both sides. I just really hate soy.

Beware, Latin woman can be fierce. If they get jealous, there will be blood.
For me a woman should be full time mother and the head of the household, the day kids arrive. Man goes hunting, women feeds the fire, watches over the kids and guards the cave.
In my relationship, we both are equal. My wife saved me from risky decisions multiple times, by reasoning with me.
On the other hand, if we both disagree strongly about an issue, I keep the upper hand. Worked for us for 28 years.

One big problem with women is:
First they are drawn to the "bad boy". Once they are in a relationship with him, they change him to be more tame, disciplined and responsible -ultimately "puzzy-fying" him, until he reaches beta status. After that, she gets utterly unhappy, because she managed to turn the roles around, now dominating the relationship.
My tip: Stay manly.

 

[hairygrandpa]

All you are doing is confirming your own internal bias.

I think its less bias but a preference thing. A friend of mine is just the opposite, he likes to be dominated by his wife.
To each his own.

@chem.jr. ,I would openly express your views on tinder. Believe me, there are woman who fit your profile perfectly.
They will call you "papi" and treat you well.

 

[Demi_God]

I have the following theory, and welcome your observations.

Generally:

1. Men do not understand women, or the way women think. However, men realize that they do not understand women, or the way women think. Men understand that they did not grow up being a woman, know that there are huge differences between men and women, and know they cannot possibly know or understand women, or the way women think.

2. Women do not understand men, or the way men think. However, unlike men, women do not realize that they do not understand men, or the way men think. In fact, women believe they understand men and why they do what they do - enough to tell the man why he is wrong. While Women understand that they did not grow up a man, they believe there are some differences between men and women that can be overcome by explaining their emotions, and they do not fully understand that they cannot possibly know or understand men, or the way men think.

This may sound funny or as if I am joking - but this is serious conjecture on my part.

Do you agree with 1. and 2. above?

Regarding point 1... I believe that as men, we find it difficult to rationalize why a woman may think a certain way because woman are mostly emotionally driven in their reasonings and not always logical.

In my experience with women, it seems like most I have been with have had a difficult time explaining why they feel a certain way beyond the immediate scope of the emotion - i.e. "I feel jealous because you make me jealous" or "I feel sad because of the way you talk to me".
Getting deeper than the surface of emotions and identifying triggers by gathering more relevant evidence/details to support why a woman feels the way they do and thereby help the man understand their reasonings, seems to be a difficult task to meet.

Again in my experience, it seems women are often better understood if the man has enough interest/investment towards actually trying to understand the "why" by asking deeper questions as to how the woman arrived to that line of thought/feeling. However, some women hate being questioned.

an example of this would be the following (very basic)

i.e.
W: I'm tired and mad because you didn't help at all with the dishes or laundry today and now I'm exhausted.
M: I didn't know that there was laundry to do today and I put my dishes away this morning.
W: There was laundry in the dryer all day and the dishes in the dishwasher were clean!
M: I didn't know there was laundry in the dryer or that the dishes were clean. They were dirty this morning and it wasn't full.
W: Whatever, you never help with stuff around the house.
M: Well, if you need help I need you to communicate that to me BEFORE you take on the responsibility of doing it all yourself. I don't mind helping.
W: I tell you every week I need help with this stuff. This isn't the first time we've talked about this.
M: Yes and I've been trying to be more aware... Did you tell me you needed help today?
W: No, but I've told you before I need your help.
M: Okay, but did you tell me what you needed help with today?
W: No.
M: Well, how was I to know you needed help with those things today then?
W: Because we've talked about it before.
M: Next time you need help, tell me specifically what you need done and when you would like it done by. I don't mind helping around the house. I didn't know that the stuff you are upset about actually needed to be done today. Next time you tell me, I will be more attentive towards making sure you have some extra help with those things... but you need to tell me specifically when and what you need help with.

Does this make sense guys? I think we have two misunderstood individuals finding a logical solution with the guidance of thought provoking questions. (who's asking the questions here? - Who asks them in your relationship?)


As for point 2... This coincides with the reasoning from point 1... Most women don't think logically by asking themselves deep thinking questions. I feel like women have a difficult time reasoning with logic when emotion is involved. They reason with emotion and some logic obviously, but not to the same extent as a man. I want to note that this is not true 100% of the time but IME it has been the majority.

The problem with point 2 is "women believe they understand men and why they do what they do - enough to tell the man why he is wrong". This may be true to an extent but their reasoning on "why he is wrong" may not sync up with the man's ACTUAL reason why. Look at the example above and see if you can identify why the man didn't help. Did he know should be helping? Yes. Did he know where the woman needed help? In a broad sense, yes, around the house. However, he did not know specifically what the woman wanted help with. He put his dishes away in the morning to help and he may have even cooked dinner on the grill in an effort to help around the house.

Women will reason emotionally to arrive at their explanation as to "why he is wrong". Men will reason using logic as to "why he is wrong" (or right ).

 

[Beau]

Demi - Thank you for your well reasoned reply.

I agree that men have an obligation to seek to understand. Part of that, in my opinion, must be fueled by the realization that most of the time we simply don't understand and have to ask to seek that understanding (either that, or blow them off). Generally, we don't assume we know what they mean or feel, partly because we do not have enough relationship arrogance to attempt to view the world through their eyes - or determine why they said or acted in a certain way using our own (male-based) criteria - much less assign motives to why they did (or said) to what they did (or said).

I will be the first to admit: I did not grow up female. Despite my attempts to understand - I still have to ask and, as to motives, I have to ask about those as well.

I don't assume that I know, because I know that I don't know.

But, generally, I don't see the same acknowledgement by a female towards a male. I have heard, both about me and about other men, that I/he did this because of [insert reason] and that by him doing (or thinking) this he is wrong because [insert explanation why his behavior/thoughts/feelings differs from her female perspective]. Take, for example, the situation described by Demi above, but lets add that the husband chooses not to offer his help to his wife, despite knowing she is looking for his help (and knowing she complains bitterly when she does not get his help).

This was the subject of a recent discussion (not about me, but regarding a son-in-law). The mother and daughter's conclusion was that the son-in-law "didn't offer help because his father didn't play that role in his house while the husband was growing up, and because that wasn't modeled by his parents". Not only were they able to describe his behavior, but they also believed they had sufficient enough insight to explain the reason/motives underlying his behavior. The explanation -- because his father didn't help his mother during his childhood - the 40 year-old husband (of 10 years) didn't understand that he should help.

It was hysterical.

The reality is that the son in law is absolutely furious with his wife for her continual nagging of him about almost everything he does (or doesn't) do, and this is his passive/aggressive way of getting even (I am NOT advocating this). The reality is, he is exactly the same person he was when they were dating - but she expected that "he would change" and become more of what she wanted, not who she married and who he is - and therefore she nags him as a means of molding him into someone he does not want to be. The reality is, he helps when he wants to - and he wants to only when she stops nagging him.

I know this not (only) because I am a man (although the tell-tale signs of his resentment are pretty stinking obvious), but because he let it slip during a conversation we had. His wife and her mother, however, were 100% accurate in coming to exactly the wrong conclusion - because they thought knew why. But - they never asked. Instead, they came up with some sort of psycho-babble that was off the mark by a mile, and that ignored a very broken dynamic in the relationship.

Yes, we have to ask to understand.

While this obligation applies equally to both sexes, I believe (i) women think they understand men, when they really don't, and (ii) men realize they don't understand women.

 

[dillface02241]

Took me over 40 years to realize a fundamental difference between men and women (or at least most men and women). One day I had a disagreement with the wife and then it hit me, the difference. Men think logically and women think emotionally.

When I had this epiphany, I told my wife. How do you think she took that one?

 

[Demi_God]

One big problem with women is:
First they are drawn to the "bad boy". Once they are in a relationship with him, they change him to be more tame, disciplined and responsible -ultimately "puzzy-fying" him, until he reaches beta status. After that, she gets utterly unhappy, because she managed to turn the roles around, now dominating the relationship.
My tip: Stay manly.

Definitely agree with this. There are lines that should not be crossed in a relationship but a man should also keep his man card. Each woman has a different level of tolerance so you have to find the right one but when you do you will know. I can openly talk about how attractive other women are with my wife but it would be an idiotic betrayal of trust to act on those impulses. If seriously contemplating it, a man should win over his woman to accepting the idea before pursuing it.

Demi - Thank you for your well reasoned reply.

I agree that men have an obligation to seek to understand. Part of that, in my opinion, must be fueled by the realization that most of the time we simply don't understand and have to ask to seek that understanding (either that, or blow them off). Generally, we don't assume we know what they mean or feel, partly because we do not have enough relationship arrogance to attempt to view the world through their eyes - or determine why they said or acted in a certain way using our own (male-based) criteria - much less assign motives to why they did (or said) to what they did (or said).

I will be the first to admit: I did not grow up female. Despite my attempts to understand - I still have to ask and, as to motives, I have to ask about those as well.

I don't assume that I know, because I know that I don't know.

But, generally, I don't see the same acknowledgement by a female towards a male. I have heard, both about me and about other men, that I/he did this because of [insert reason] and that by him doing (or thinking) this he is wrong because [insert explanation why his behavior/thoughts/feelings differs from her female perspective]. Take, for example, the situation described by Demi above, but lets add that the husband chooses not to offer his help to his wife, despite knowing she is looking for his help (and knowing she complains bitterly when she does not get his help).

This was the subject of a recent discussion (not about me, but regarding a son-in-law). The mother and daughter's conclusion was that the son-in-law "didn't offer help because his father didn't play that role in his house while the husband was growing up, and because that wasn't modeled by his parents". Not only were they able to describe his behavior, but they also believed they had sufficient enough insight to explain the reason/motives underlying his behavior. The explanation -- because his father didn't help his mother during his childhood - the 40 year-old husband (of 10 years) didn't understand that he should help.

It was hysterical.

The reality is that the son in law is absolutely furious with his wife for her continual nagging of him about almost everything he does (or doesn't) do, and this is his passive/aggressive way of getting even (I am NOT advocating this). The reality is, he is exactly the same person he was when they were dating - but she expected that "he would change" and become more of what she wanted, not who she married and who he is - and therefore she nags him as a means of molding him into someone he does not want to be. The reality is, he helps when he wants to - and he wants to only when she stops nagging him.

I know this not (only) because I am a man (although the tell-tale signs of his resentment are pretty stinking obvious), but because he let it slip during a conversation we had. His wife and her mother, however, were 100% accurate in coming to exactly the wrong conclusion - because they thought knew why. But - they never asked. Instead, they came up with some sort of psycho-babble that was off the mark by a mile, and that ignored a very broken dynamic in the relationship.

Yes, we have to ask to understand.

While this obligation applies equally to both sexes, I believe (I) women think they understand men, when they really don't, and (ii) men realize they don't understand women.

Great explanation here. Hits the nail on the head for sure with regards to my line of thinking. Obviously we don't live in a world defined by black and white rules. Each gender carries a stereotype that may fit the majority but not all cases. Each party (regardless of gender) has a responsibility to try to extract or direct attention to their own conclusions, BUT communicating how/why they've arrived at that point is imperative! Communication is the maker or breaker in relationships.

We need more psychological education for our children who are still in school so as to properly prepare them for relationships in the real world.

These types of discussions are extremely thought provoking and they are up their on my favorite topics to chat about. Interesting post OP!

 

[Demi_God]

Took me over 40 years to realize a fundamental difference between men and women (or at least most men and women). One day I had a disagreement with the wife and then it hit me, the difference. Men think logically and women think emotionally.

When I had this epiphany, I told my wife. How do you think she took that one?

I'd imagine she either agreed with you (not likely) or got offended/emotional for calling her illogical (probably more likely - )

 

[hairygrandpa]

Regarding point 1... I believe that as men, we find it difficult to rationalize why a woman may think a certain way because woman are mostly emotionally driven in their reasonings and not always logical.

In my experience with women, it seems like most I have been with have had a difficult time explaining why they feel a certain way beyond the immediate scope of the emotion - i.e. "I feel jealous because you make me jealous" or "I feel sad because of the way you talk to me".
Getting deeper than the surface of emotions and identifying triggers by gathering more relevant evidence/details to support why a woman feels the way they do and thereby help the man understand their reasonings, seems to be a difficult task to meet.

Again in my experience, it seems women are often better understood if the man has enough interest/investment towards actually trying to understand the "why" by asking deeper questions as to how the woman arrived to that line of thought/feeling. However, some women hate being questioned.

an example of this would be the following (very basic)

i.e.
W: I'm tired and mad because you didn't help at all with the dishes or laundry today and now I'm exhausted.
M: I didn't know that there was laundry to do today and I put my dishes away this morning.
W: There was laundry in the dryer all day and the dishes in the dishwasher were clean!
M: I didn't know there was laundry in the dryer or that the dishes were clean. They were dirty this morning and it wasn't full.
W: Whatever, you never help with stuff around the house.
M: Well, if you need help I need you to communicate that to me BEFORE you take on the responsibility of doing it all yourself. I don't mind helping.
W: I tell you every week I need help with this stuff. This isn't the first time we've talked about this.
M: Yes and I've been trying to be more aware... Did you tell me you needed help today?
W: No, but I've told you before I need your help.
M: Okay, but did you tell me what you needed help with today?
W: No.
M: Well, how was I to know you needed help with those things today then?
W: Because we've talked about it before.
M: Next time you need help, tell me specifically what you need done and when you would like it done by. I don't mind helping around the house. I didn't know that the stuff you are upset about actually needed to be done today. Next time you tell me, I will be more attentive towards making sure you have some extra help with those things... but you need to tell me specifically when and what you need help with.

Does this make sense guys? I think we have two misunderstood individuals finding a logical solution with the guidance of thought provoking questions. (who's asking the questions here? - Who asks them in your relationship?)


As for point 2... This coincides with the reasoning from point 1... Most women don't think logically by asking themselves deep thinking questions. I feel like women have a difficult time reasoning with logic when emotion is involved. They reason with emotion and some logic obviously, but not to the same extent as a man. I want to note that this is not true 100% of the time but IME it has been the majority.

The problem with point 2 is "women believe they understand men and why they do what they do - enough to tell the man why he is wrong". This may be true to an extent but their reasoning on "why he is wrong" may not sync up with the man's ACTUAL reason why. Look at the example above and see if you can identify why the man didn't help. Did he know should be helping? Yes. Did he know where the woman needed help? In a broad sense, yes, around the house. However, he did not know specifically what the woman wanted help with. He put his dishes away in the morning to help and he may have even cooked dinner on the grill in an effort to help around the house.

Women will reason emotionally to arrive at their explanation as to "why he is wrong". Men will reason using logic as to "why he is wrong" (or right ).

LMAO, you nailed it perfectly. She is always assuming you to know why she is bitter.
I have an additional, related problem that you may recognize:
She assuming what you are thinking.
She: We have an invitation for tomorrow, neighbors birthday.
Me: -
She: I know you don't want to go out.
Me: -
She: Why don't you want to go with me?
Me: I didn't say anything.
She: But I saw it in your face.
I swear my face was expressionless, I was thinking what else I had planed for tomorrow.

 

[Demi_God]

LMAO, you nailed it perfectly. She is always assuming you to know why she is bitter.
I have an additional, related problem that you may recognize:
She assuming what you are thinking.
She: We have an invitation for tomorrow, neighbors birthday.
Me: -
She: I know you don't want to go out.
Me: -
She: Why don't you want to go with me?
Me: I didn't say anything.
She: But I saw it in your face.
I swear my face was expressionless, I was thinking what else I had planed for tomorrow.

Hahaha.. Well, I guess RBF (resting bitch face) can affect both genders. One probably could've guessed! But I'm guilty of making assumptions too... I think everyone is. Still, it's usually not without its reasons as well. That's a tough one to argue but can definitely go for both genders I think lol

 

[Beau]

Heck, half the time I am not fully certain of why I am thinking what I am thinking. If that is the case, how can I possibly make any assumptions about what someone else may be thinking or assume I know why they are doing (or not doing) something?

Expecting others to read your mind, or expecting that you can read the mind of another, is a recipe for disaster.

I have few hot buttons - but when someone smugly tells me what my motives are - well, that one elicits a response.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Hahaha.. Well, I guess RBF (resting bitch face) can affect both genders. One probably could've guessed! But I'm guilty of making assumptions too... I think everyone is. Still, it's usually not without its reasons as well. That's a tough one to argue but can definitely go for both genders I think lol

RBF !
Almost peed a little! ROFL

 

[dillface02241]

I'd imagine she either agreed with you (not likely) or got offended/emotional for calling her illogical (probably more likely - )

ding ding ding...we got a winner. She was pissed....

 

[Beau]

In my experience, if you really want to put yourself in harms' way (i) make a comment about a woman's disposition and include an ill-fated PMS comment, or (ii) "minimize" the value (which are assumed to be absolute) of a woman's feelings/emotions.

Just don't.

 

[GreekTheBrick]

All I know is that the woman isnt the female of the same species with the man..

 

[thebigt]

great thread...I was going to reply but the pc leftists are stalkers and I don't need their drama.

 

[Mathb33]

Took me over 40 years to realize a fundamental difference between men and women (or at least most men and women). One day I had a disagreement with the wife and then it hit me, the difference. Men think logically and women think emotionally.

When I had this epiphany, I told my wife. How do you think she took that one?

Ohhh ****, that brother was a very ballsy claim! I suppose she was not happy about that one.

 

[kisaj]

The comment on logic vs emotion is very accurate in most cases. In addition, coming into a conversation with logic when it is being run by emotion will only serve to exasperate the issue. That is in large part why men are accused of not "listening" because we don't understand the emotional part and we are going into troubleshooting mode thinking there is something to fix, rather than listen and sympathize (and agree).

I have a wife, 2 daughters, and a female dog, not to mention my wife's family has 5 sisters and full of women that are always around. I consider myself an expert in this area. Not to say I've learned how to control myself and logical arguing, though. Lol.

 

[Demi_God]

I just enjoy seeing where everyone stands and where my conclusion falls in comparison to the majority. Confirms whether or not I'm thinking unreasonably in comparison to my peers. At least on here anyways lol

 

[Beau]

great thread...I was going to reply but the pc leftists are stalkers and I don't need their drama.

I just want to stress that this isn't a "bashing" thread - far from it. I think it is healthy to "accept that a giraffe has a long neck" rather than resent the fact (or at least your belief) that the giraffe has a long neck.

I know that is not what you are suggesting - but unless someone wants to intentionally torture my words and misrepresent what they say - there is nothing defaming about them.

 

[dillface02241]

"In my experience, if you really want to put yourself in harms' way (i) make a comment about a woman's disposition and include an ill-fated PMS comment, or (ii) "minimize" the value (which are assumed to be absolute) of a woman's feelings/emotions."

Or simply tell a women she is doing something the wrong way.

 

[MrKleen73]

It's funny when I read the first post I thought immediately you could replace Male and Female in this post with Liberal and Conservative and the same holds true when they try to communicate with each other.

The comment on logic vs emotion is very accurate in most cases. In addition, coming into a conversation with logic when it is being run by emotion will only serve to exasperate the issue. That is in large part why men are accused of not "listening" because we don't understand the emotional part and we are going into troubleshooting mode thinking there is something to fix, rather than listen and sympathize (and agree).

I have a wife, 2 daughters, and a female dog, not to mention my wife's family has 5 sisters and full of women that are always around. I consider myself an expert in this area. Not to say I've learned how to control myself and logical arguing, though. Lol.

All facts, and also who is to say that you need to control yourself and not argue logically. As long as you listen as well the two can and should co-exist. Hell it is the basis of the male and female relationship, and it needs both sides to be healthy and strongly represented to have any balance. When things tip too far one way or another is when things really get of kilter.

I just enjoy seeing where everyone stands and where my conclusion falls in comparison to the majority. Confirms whether or not I'm thinking unreasonably in comparison to my peers. At least on here anyways lol

So far it seems you are pretty spot on with my opinions.

I feel both sexes have a responsibility try to meet in the middle far too often I see how people put the onus on the male for what needs changed. Both need to step out of their comfort zones and try to improve, men could be a bit more sensitive to emotion, and women could learn to be a bit more logical but in the end we are wired how we are wired so we can only expect so much.

I just want to stress that this isn't a "bashing" thread - far from it. I think it is healthy to "accept that a giraffe has a long neck" rather than resent the fact (or at least your belief) that the giraffe has a long neck.

I know that is not what you are suggesting - but unless someone wants to intentionally torture my words and misrepresent what they say - there is nothing defaming about them.

I think you are misunderstanding him. He has some colorful statements he is holding back to avoid backlash from the bleeding heart brigade.

Is that correct @thebigt ?