Unanswered Matthersby log: Old man on a mission

SkRaw85

SkRaw85

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Yeah that is the worst feeling ever. But on the upside, abs get poppin hard after sickness. Rest up and get well!
 

danielvp

Member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Welcome to the club. Been out of the gym for 4 weeks straight due to pneumonia. Lost roughly 1 rep on major exercises, i believe mk677 helped greatly.
I just spent 2 weeks in bed with a nasty infection myself, 2 IU GH am and 10 mg mk-677 PM, and I lost next to no muscle mass. Matthersby, if it's an option I would start your GH now or try some mk-677.
 

CroLifter

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
I just spent 2 weeks in bed with a nasty infection myself, 2 IU GH am and 10 mg mk-677 PM, and I lost next to no muscle mass. Matthersby, if it's an option I would start your GH now or try some mk-677.
You guys running gh making me jealous.

i just cant justify the cost for marginal gains of low dose gh over mk677.
 

CroLifter

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
Peopple seem to have their igf1 in the 400s on 3 iu of pharmaceutical gh.

I was browsing through some studies the other day and found this:
PicsArt_12-07-08.40.20.png


It is from this study: https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/88/12/5951/2661508

I mean look at those natural igf 1 levels in young men. To me this looks like equivalent of taking 4 iu of gh per day. Considering that exogenous gh is of course suppressive to natural production, wouldnt it be counterproductive for these young men to take anything less than say 5 iu per day? Their natural igf levels reflect that of someone taking 4iu of gh per day.

perhaps mk677 would be a better idea in someone who is young with good levels as, say it increases igf 1 further 40%, which is pretty usual from what i can see, these guys would have their igf1 at 746 ng/ml !! (533 x 1.4).

I think i heard that there were reports of some crazy igf1 numbers from mk677, and imho it could be true, if a young man who already has high igf 1 levels increases his by further 40%.

Crazy
 
Matthersby

Matthersby

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
You should see what Lantus can do with IGF. And at a fraction of the cost. But then you need gh anyways so you don’t get fat.
 

CroLifter

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
You should see what Lantus can do with IGF. And at a fraction of the cost. But then you need gh anyways so you don’t get fat.
Or you could use straight igf 1. I dont know how reliable those research powders are though.

also mgf looks interesting.

btw i was looking into cjc 1295 and it seems disappointing. Small igf 1 increases. I think i am going to ditch the idea.
 

trumac

Active member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Peopple seem to have their igf1 in the 400s on 3 iu of pharmaceutical gh.

I was browsing through some studies the other day and found this:
View attachment 189091

It is from this study: https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/88/12/5951/2661508

I mean look at those natural igf 1 levels in young men. To me this looks like equivalent of taking 4 iu of gh per day. Considering that exogenous gh is of course suppressive to natural production, wouldnt it be counterproductive for these young men to take anything less than say 5 iu per day? Their natural igf levels reflect that of someone taking 4iu of gh per day.

perhaps mk677 would be a better idea in someone who is young with good levels as, say it increases igf 1 further 40%, which is pretty usual from what i can see, these guys would have their igf1 at 746 ng/ml !! (533 x 1.4).

I think i heard that there were reports of some crazy igf1 numbers from mk677, and imho it could be true, if a young man who already has high igf 1 levels increases his by further 40%.

Crazy
there is a thread over in the igf/gh sub about mk and its effects on igf. I’ve read about it over on ASF as well. If I remember correctly you’ll have higher igf numbers from mk for a time before they drop off and higher serum gh from exogenous gh. I have limited experience with mk and none with gh so I have no real world results to go by
 

CroLifter

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
there is a thread over in the igf/gh sub about mk and its effects on igf. I’ve read about it over on ASF as well. If I remember correctly you’ll have higher igf numbers from mk for a time before they drop off and higher serum gh from exogenous gh. I have limited experience with mk and none with gh so I have no real world results to go by
For a time? I didnt think there was significant desensitization even with months of usage. I never saw any evidence of desensitization.
 

trumac

Active member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
For a time? I didnt think there was significant desensitization even with months of usage. I never saw any evidence of desensitization.
Yes it drops off I believe around month 5. MA is recommending an 8 day on 4 day off schedule with it now bc the huge increase you initially see drops off that quickly
 
Rocket3015

Rocket3015

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I would love to try GH !!
 
Matthersby

Matthersby

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
For a time? I didnt think there was significant desensitization even with months of usage. I never saw any evidence of desensitization.
It’s way down the road. The OP had probably 6 months of elevated GH(can’t recall how long) but at one point they started dropping, I believe somewhere in the 100 pages of that thread he talked about needing to cycle it for prolonged periods. Cycle off for a time and go back on.
 

CroLifter

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
Yes it drops off I believe around month 5. MA is recommending an 8 day on 4 day off schedule with it now bc the huge increase you initially see drops off that quickly
This interests me greatly and i would like to see a proof (dont want to sound rude, i am sincerely interested) of the supposed large increas ein igf 1 during first week.

i mean hunger and lethargy are intense at the very beginning and drop off with time, so i am not sure whether the igf 1 levels follow the same path or is it just the body getting accustomed to it in another way.
 

danielvp

Member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
This interests me greatly and i would like to see a proof (dont want to sound rude, i am sincerely interested) of the supposed large increas ein igf 1 during first week.

i mean hunger and lethargy are intense at the very beginning and drop off with time, so i am not sure whether the igf 1 levels follow the same path of is it just the body getting accustomed to it in another way.
I believe it because I can feel it, next time you run mk (after atleast a month of in my experience) just jump right into 25 mg, and experience the sides of a high GH dose.
 

trumac

Active member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
This interests me greatly and i would like to see a proof (dont want to sound rude, i am sincerely interested) of the supposed large increas ein igf 1 during first week.

i mean hunger and lethargy are intense at the very beginning and drop off with time, so i am not sure whether the igf 1 levels follow the same path or is it just the body getting accustomed to it in another way.
@Mike Arnold could explain it better than I ever could try to
 

danielvp

Member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
@Mike Arnold what do you think of running GH on the 4 off days, with the 8 on 4 off method? Really interested in this protocol and will be trying it out soon.
 
Matthersby

Matthersby

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
I’m getting back on track this weekend, because I sincerely want everyone to see what GH/Slin combo can do if I’m putting everything into it. I’m betting better, leaner gains than on NPP/Test.
 
Matthersby

Matthersby

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
I’m sincerely stressed out with this week long lay off. Need to get after it, I feel like I took a huge step back
 
Alchemist11

Alchemist11

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
I’m sincerely stressed out with this week long lay off. Need to get after it, I feel like I took a huge step back
Don't think that man, your progress so far says if all! It can be frustrating, but you've done really nice job, one week of being off is not going to take away weeks and weeks of hard work! Keep your head up, and thoughts positive!
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
I’m sincerely stressed out with this week long lay off. Need to get after it, I feel like I took a huge step back
You probably lost any and all progress, and should just quit now without even trying any further. You definitely don’t have what this takes...













See, now doesn’t that sound stupid when you read it out loud?? Stop getting in your own head. Everything is fine and you’re still getting jacked.
 
MrKleen73

MrKleen73

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
You had a minor catabolic situation that will result in a rebound anabolic situation which is likely going to be bigger considering your gear. Plus GH and SLIN upcoming... Stop stressing and get your cortisol down. If it is time to rest then rest damn it there isn't going to be much in your future!
 

trumac

Active member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
You probably lost any and all progress, and should just quit now without even trying any further. You definitely don’t have what this takes...













See, now doesn’t that sound stupid when you read it out loud?? Stop getting in your own head. Everything is fine and you’re still getting jacked.
I agree. Give up. Go vegan. Buy cats. Transition to female. Stop wasting our time.
 
Matthersby

Matthersby

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
I’m thrilled that after 8 days I made it to the gym last night. Strength was not too terrible and my deflated chest puffed right back up. Trying to get an idea from coach if we need to prolong the off season or just diet slowly. I genuinely don’t know and my body dysmorphia prevents any realistic ideas.
 
Cmseabee24

Cmseabee24

Member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
I’m thrilled that after 8 days I made it to the gym last night. Strength was not too terrible and my deflated chest puffed right back up. Trying to get an idea from coach if we need to prolong the off season or just diet slowly. I genuinely don’t know and my body dysmorphia prevents any realistic ideas.
I think we all got that dysmorphia. We see ourselves in ther mirror everyday so it’s hard to tell we are growing until the end of your cycle and then your like holy ****. But that’s exactly why you got a coach just follow his advice and stick to it. I know we all have our doubts about could I have pushed it further just trust the process and you’ll get there.
 

CroLifter

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
You had a minor catabolic situation that will result in a rebound anabolic situation which is likely going to be bigger considering your gear. Plus GH and SLIN upcoming... Stop stressing and get your cortisol down. If it is time to rest then rest damn it there isn't going to be much in your future!
Stress is a huge factor. I decided to cut my clomid run short because i am a hazard to my environment. Smashed cellphones, smashed rearview screen in my car, all kinds of destroyed objects. And so mean all the time, pissed off at everything.

I am convinced that "roid rage" comes from elevated estrogen.

Clomid is the only compound that tuns me into a mindless raging idiot. Steroids may give you aggression but it is a different, grounded type of aggression that you control and unleash at will. This is just pure lunacy. PMS type rage, only without crying and emotional states.

Lol exactly the same type of raging fits that i used to laugh at my mother for going through i am experiencing now.

But the worst is how when i have multiple fits of rage i am SIGNIFICANTLY weaker in the gym that evening, also feel sick.

Mental stress drains you and you cant perform.
I am megadosing ashwagandha and valeriana as we speak.
 
Last edited:
THOR 70

THOR 70

Active member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Stress is a huge factor. I decided to cut my clomid run short because i am a hazard to my environment. Smashed cellphones, smashed rearview screen in my car, all kinds of destroyed objects. And so mean all the time, pissed off at everything.

I am convinced that "roid rage" comes from elevated estrogen.

Clomid is the only compound that tuns me into a mindless raging idiot. Steroids may give you aggression but it is a different, grounded type of aggression that you control and unleash at will. This is just pure lunacy. PMS type rage, only without crying and emotional states.

Lol exactly the same type of raging fits that i used to laugh at my mother for going through i am experiencing now.

But the worst is how when i have multiple fits of rage i am SIGNIFICANTLY weaker in the gym that evening, also feel sick.

Mental stress drains you and you cant perform.
I am megadosing ashwagandha and valeriana as we speak.
Such a good description of the “rage” types.
 
MrKleen73

MrKleen73

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
Stress is a huge factor. I decided to cut my clomid run short because i am a hazard to my environment. Smashed cellphones, smashed rearview screen in my car, all kinds of destroyed objects. And so mean all the time, pissed off at everything.

I am convinced that "roid rage" comes from elevated estrogen.

Clomid is the only compound that tuns me into a mindless raging idiot. Steroids may give you aggression but it is a different, grounded type of aggression that you control and unleash at will. This is just pure lunacy. PMS type rage, only without crying and emotional states.

Lol exactly the same type of raging fits that i used to laugh at my mother for going through i am experiencing now.

But the worst is how when i have multiple fits of rage i am SIGNIFICANTLY weaker in the gym that evening, also feel sick.

Mental stress drains you and you cant perform.
I am megadosing ashwagandha and valeriana as we speak.
This was me when I listened to those who told me to run it @ 100/100/50/50/2525 or even 50 all the way through, it does the trick @25 and not as bad but even then I was like an irate bitch on occasion!
 
THOR 70

THOR 70

Active member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I’ve been playing with clomid as a low level trt and just said eff it and went to test prop 50mg eod and feel waaaay more stable, confident, and positive. Anger potential is there, but only comes out when justified.
 

CroLifter

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
Testosterone never gave me rage. You do feel aggressive, but in a grounded way as i already described, and you can unleash that aggression consciously in the gym, while sparring etc

Clomid is for me pure lack of patience and irritability.
 

trumac

Active member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Testosterone never gave me rage. You do feel aggressive, but in a grounded way as i already described, and you can unleash that aggression consciously in the gym, while sparring etc

Clomid is for me pure lack of patience and irritability.
Clomid makes everyone feel the way I feel every single day? I’m not normal?
 
MrKleen73

MrKleen73

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
Clomid makes everyone feel the way I feel every single day? I’m not normal?
I think he forgot to put Uncontrollable impatience and irritability... and NO you are not normal! LMOA! None of us are!
 
MrKleen73

MrKleen73

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
Simply put, clomid makes you feel 15 again, unstable as fuk.
You must have been a bi-polar girl then... because that is what clomid reminded me of... Just a lot bigger and stronger after a good cycle. I never was that bad as a teen and I was a hot mess and always in trouble. LOL
 

CroLifter

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
You must have been a bi-polar girl then... because that is what clomid reminded me of... Just a lot bigger and stronger after a good cycle. I never was that bad as a teen and I was a hot mess and always in trouble. LOL
I had rage issues when i was a teen, up to about 17-18 years old, then it stabilized. But i didnt suffer from depression or sadness, at least i cant remember. Just lack of control.

Btw clomid doesnt make me emotional at all during this run, while it did the last time i ran it (during my failed pct attempt in august where i felt terrible and suffered from paranoia and anxiety). Last time i had no rage issues but was depressed. Now i feel great but have raging fits from time to time.

I believe that the reason for why it is not affecting me in the way it did last time is that now i actually have some testosterone in my system.

I think it is a lot more about androgen: estrogen ratios rather than absolute numbers when it comes to the way we feel.
 

trumac

Active member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
I had rage issues when i was a teen, up to about 17-18 years old, then it stabilized. But i didnt suffer from depression or sadness, at least i cant remember. Just lack of control.

Btw clomid doesnt make me emotional at all during this run, while it did the last time i ran it (during my failed pct attempt in august where i felt terrible and suffered from paranoia and anxiety). Last time i had no rage issues but was depressed. Now i feel great but have raging fits from time to time.

I believe that the reason for why it is not affecting me in the way it did last time is that now i actually have some testosterone in my system.

I think it is a lot more about androgen: estrogen ratios rather than absolute numbers when it comes to the way we feel.
Bro honestly you’re like a different person than you were during that fiasco. It was wild
 

CroLifter

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
Bro honestly you’re like a different person than you were during that fiasco. It was wild
I am thinking it was chronically low t. Ever since i came off my cycle in early june i never went above 125mg of test per week which i believed was 250 mg/ml, but it turns out there is at most 100mg/ml. So i was getting 50mg of actual test e per week at most.

Coupled with my excessive phlebotomies which gave me hardcore heart palpitations i began stressing about my health.
 
Matthersby

Matthersby

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
Balance is a motherfcker. Been a good week for great workouts and consistent diet, but bad for much else. I’m in the last 7 classes of my business degree, and working a lot of hours, plus parenting. Today I’ve got to get about 15 things done, and a big assignment and arms/shoulders tonight. I’m going to figure out how to manage my time to get everything done with no areas suffering.
 

DieselJD

Member
Awards
0
I always found when I am busier I am always more productive. In college, it always felt like I had way too many things to do and not enough time. I always got everything done though. You adapt because you have to. You got this man!
 
Matthersby

Matthersby

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
I always found when I am busier I am always more productive. In college, it always felt like I had way too many things to do and not enough time. I always got everything done though. You adapt because you have to. You got this man!
There’s literally too much about that I agree with. I am far more productive when I’m slammed and forced to do things on lunch breaks, on drives, before and after work, and during other activities. Days off are actually the worst for me because I’m not busy enough to be productive.
 

DieselJD

Member
Awards
0
There’s literally too much about that I agree with. I am far more productive when I’m slammed and forced to do things on lunch breaks, on drives, before and after work, and during other activities. Days off are actually the worst for me because I’m not busy enough to be productive.
100% agree. I have a day off and it feels like I dont have anything to do so guess what nothing gets done lol Then I have work, bunch of tasks on my plate, the stress piles up, and I just get it done. Boosts confidence and makes you feel like you are doing then right things.
 
MrKleen73

MrKleen73

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
100% agree. I have a day off and it feels like I dont have anything to do so guess what nothing gets done lol Then I have work, bunch of tasks on my plate, the stress piles up, and I just get it done. Boosts confidence and makes you feel like you are doing then right things.
Yes but those days of nothing are great for mental recovery just don't feel guilty for enjoying them. The idea is to not be busy and relax. All of our other days are go, go go and stressful and like you said we get more done in go mode. However sometimes when i just have on thing to do on a down day it won't get done and I have just learned to not let that get to me anymore. I can push myself to get it done on another day. :)
 
Rocket3015

Rocket3015

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
If you need something done you always ask the busiest guy !!
 

Similar threads


Top