Kleen - Project 50: Under Construction

[gphagan1]

Yeah just take it easy brother and let that baby heal. It’s never easy, but it’s great you have a better understanding of the process than most….something to be said for experience.
I love TB 500 and BPC 157, if you can get both, they will definitely help speed up the healing process.

 

[Hyde]

A couple weeks of no sweating or mobility is fine. Once that cut heals, you will be able to start progressing things a lot more. Taking off the cast/immobilizer/mold is so awesome when it’s time, like things are being brought back to life slowly.

 

[Rocket3015]

Sounds like your head is in the right place, go slow and take care!

 

[MrKleen73]

Thanks Gents! If any of you are aware of a reputable peptide place running a good Labor Day sale let me know about it.

 

[gphagan1]

Thanks Gents! If any of you are aware of a reputable peptide place running a good Labor Day sale let me know about it.

MA Research is having a Labor Day sale, and everything I’ve ever tried of Mike’s stuff is legit.
@Smont is a rep, but I’m not sure if you can use his code with the sale.

 

[Smont]

MA Research is having a Labor Day sale, and everything I’ve ever tried of Mike’s stuff is legit.
@Smont is a rep, but I’m not sure if you can use his code with the sale.

My code smont is good year round for 15% off but usually when it's a sale mike will put out a 20% off code.

He hasn't yet but he will this weekend for sure

 

[Smont]

Codes cannot be combined

 

[BennyMagoo79]

Good to hear things are going according to plan mate! Take it easy, enjoy the time off if you an!

 

[Rocket3015]

Yeah just take it easy brother and let that baby heal. It’s never easy, but it’s great you have a better understanding of the process than most….something to be said for experience.
I love TB 500 and BPC 157, if you can get both, they will definitely help speed up the healing process.

@gphagan1 @MrKleen73 I have had the same pain in my shoulders for years when pressing do you think either one on these compounds would help that ?

 

[gphagan1]

@gphagan1 @MrKleen73 I have had the same pain in my shoulders for years when pressing do you think either one on these compounds would help that ?

Absolutely… I would at least start with BPC 157.
It’s an amazing compound. They work great together, but it gets expensive starting out with both BPC 157 and TB 500.

 

[Hyde]

Absolutely… I would at least start with BPC 157.
It’s an amazing compound. They work great together, but it gets expensive starting out with both BPC 157 and TB 500.

Totally this. If you can spend several hundred then do TB500 therapy for sure; if not there’s no reason why you can’t pony up $60-80 for a couple 5mg bottles of some BPC157 and some bac water.

100ct 30g slinpins at Sam’s pharmacy for about $13 btw

 

[Rocket3015]

Totally this. If you can spend several hundred then do TB500 therapy for sure; if not there’s no reason why you can’t pony up $60-80 for a couple 5mg bottles of some BPC157 and some bac water.

100ct 30g slinpins at Sam’s pharmacy for about $13 btw

Thank you!

Got any links to some research I can read on theses two products ?

 

[Hyde]

Thank you!

Got any links to some research I can read on theses two products ?

Just google them. There is so much out there on them.

As far as use, it’s pretty simple. TB500, which is a bit more useful for a muscle injury, you want to pin about a 5mg vial once a week for a good 6 weeks to reach peak levels of it, then you can discontinue or to keep it loaded you need like 2mg a week or something. You can split the weekly dose into a couple shots or really just whack it all in one shot. It’s systemic, so just put 1ml bac water in a 5ml vial and inject it all IM anywhere convenient like a delt, etc.

BPC157 shines a bit more for tendons/ligament healing, and is much cheaper, but you want to inject at least 100mcg once or twice a day subq local to the area of injury. So if your elbow is beat up, you need to be slipping a pin under your skin right by the painful area morning and night ideally. One 5mg vial often is enough for weeks of therapy when reconstituted with 2-3ml. Each injection is going to only be like 0.1ml/10 units on an insulin syringe tops.

 

[Rocket3015]

Just google them. There is so much out there on them.

As far as use, it’s pretty simple. TB500, which is a bit more useful for a muscle injury, you want to pin about a 5mg vial once a week for a good 6 weeks to reach peak levels of it, then you can discontinue or to keep it loaded you need like 2mg a week or something. You can split the weekly dose into a couple shots or really just whack it all in one shot. It’s systemic, so just put 1ml bac water in a 5ml vial and inject it all IM anywhere convenient like a delt, etc.

BPC157 shines a bit more for tendons/ligament healing, and is much cheaper, but you want to inject at least 100mcg once or twice a day subq local to the area of injury. So if your elbow is beat up, you need to be slipping a pin under your skin right by the painful area morning and night ideally. One 5mg vial often is enough for weeks of therapy when reconstituted with 2-3ml. Each injection is going to only be like 0.1ml/10 units on an insulin syringe tops.

Thank you, I just never know what to believe in a random google search.

 

[Renew1]

Thank you, I just never know what to believe in a random google search.

TB-500

Animal studies with thymosin beta, a multifunctional tissue repair and regeneration peptide - PubMed

Studies in various animal models of disease and repair with thymosin beta(4) (Tbeta(4)), the major actin-sequestering molecule in mammalian cells, have provided the scientific foundation for the ongoing dermal, corneal, and cardiac wound repair multicenter clinical trials. Tbeta(4) has of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

BPC-157

The promoting effect of pentadecapeptide BPC 157 on tendon healing involves tendon outgrowth, cell survival, and cell migration - PubMed

Pentadecapeptide BPC 157, composed of 15 amino acids, is a partial sequence of body protection compound (BPC) that is discovered in and isolated from human gastric juice. Experimentally it has been demonstrated to accelerate the healing of many different wounds, including transected rat Achilles...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Rocket3015]

@Renew1 Thank you!

 

[Hyde]

Thank you, I just never know what to believe in a random google search.

You will see lots of dosing ideology, but what I follow is something that makes sense to me based on anecdote of other success stories, personal results, logistics of how they are sold & dosed, etc.

There is more than one way to do it, but the big thing to understand is TB500 is truly systemic in action and does not matter where you pin it, and it has a very long half life (think like test e), and BPC is also systemic but has very significant local effects, so it should be administered locally whenever possible. It is fast in action and could be thought of more like applying test suspension.

 

[Renew1]

@Renew1 Thank you!

Any time!

 

[Rocket3015]

I'm always learning !

 

[gphagan1]

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[Rocket3015]

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Good Deal !!

 

[MrKleen73]

Morning everyone, had a decent session the other day at the gym. Just did a 3 work sets on leg press, curls and extensions then hit up a 3 work sets of chest, and shoulder press as well as rows and pull downs with right side only. I tried doing some walking but started sweating and had to call it.

Also lucky me, had another pop up expense this weekend and wasn't able to hop on to take advantage of the peptide sales... Very frustrating but sometimes life throws things at you and you have to make crappy decisions. No big deal, I will heal regardless and may even try to order some on my next check just to speed things up.

Going to do some walking in the tunnels while up here at work to start getting the activity in so I can lose some weight. I would like to say I made progress while down, but I think I might have actually maintained which ain't great but ain't too bad considering I kind of turned to food for enjoyment. I was weighing in at 219 in clothes 3 days prior to surgery, not sure where I am now but my pants fit about the same.

I can't wait to get normal use of my arm back, as of late I have been stuck to what the wife or kids cooked. It isn't ever bad food just not often good for my goals. Having nothing prepped to fall back on leads to a lot more poor / convenience based food decisions. Once I can cook up a couple meals of my own, the diet will get better quickly.

Noteworthy Lesson - Wiping your azz with your nondominant hand is extremely challenging! I never realized how much dexterity that actually requires. LMAO!!! Almost makes me miss the pain pill constipation. ALMOST...

 

[Rocket3015]

Noteworthy Lesson - Wiping your azz with your nondominant hand is extremely challenging! I never realized how much dexterity that actually requires. LMAO!!! Almost makes me miss the pain pill constipation. ALMOST...

This is funny but so true, I remember from my carpal tunnel surgery.

 

[Hyde]

Dude it’s crazy the difference; I could never wipe with the opposite hand. At this size I can barely make it now even with a sumo stance. It gets a lot easier if you can put that foot up on the edge of a bathtub if you have one, btw.

 

[MrKleen73]

Has been an interesting week back at work. Have been extremely busy but managed to get out to walk an hour everyday in the tunnel system here downtown. That way I stay cool and don't get all sweaty. I have still been very tired and can tell my body is working hard to repair everything going on. Been going to bed earlier each night, and not sleeping well enough to get up in the AM for exercise.

Next week I should be good to go to kick into a higher gear with some real cardio. I am pretty sure the incisions should have closed completely by then. Diet has improved this week, not by being able to prep but just not eating the crap. It is hard to complain to your wife about food being cooked when they are taking care of everything while I am broken. One thing I will definitely miss is her showering me everyday. She has taken really good care of me and works just as hard as I do everyday.

@Hyde "It gets a lot easier if you can put that foot up on the edge of a bathtub if you have one, btw."
This created quite the visual in my mind. I found standing up in a half squat instead of just leaning to the side really helped too!

My first PT session is not until Sept. 21st. Unfortunately couldn't get in earlier. Going to call the PA today to get a little more guidance on how much I can move the arm in between since it is a whole month out from the surgery. I don't want things to tighten up and make it even harder to get back to business by not moving it enough either.

Also I put on a shirt today that is a little snug on the arms and my left arm was just swimming in it while the right sleeve was full. I assume I have lost about an inch so far. My anterior delt looks like it is missing in action too. Where it used to kind of bulge out it is flat as a pancake. I do think my left biceps is going to look jacked once recovered due to the reattachment surgery. Now that more of the swelling is going down it is looking like it will have a better peak but that could just be how it contrast against the flatness of my shrunken anterior delt.

 

[gphagan1]

It’s always good when you have a good support system from your spouse and family. That makes focusing on recovery so much easier.
Ha, glad you figured out a good um shall I say wipe technique. That’s definitely a helpless feeling.
As far as one arm bigger, I had a torsion fracture or spiral fracture in my left forearm, from an arm wrestling match about 25 years ago and was in a cast for 4 months. When the cast was finally removed, my right arm was still about 18 1/2”, but my left had shrunk over 4” to about 14”.
It’s pretty wild, muscle memory is beautiful thing, because after 7 months of dumbbell work my left arm was 17 3/4”. Working the dumbbells properly to build my left, while maintaining my right arm was key. Odd thing is almost all my major injuries have been left side….forearm, shoulder, pec, ribs, knee.

 

[Hyde]

I am a stander; I forgot most people are sitters when they wipe. Don’t try the foot on tub trick while sitting

 

[Rocket3015]

A bit more information in here than I need !!

 

[MrKleen73]

It’s always good when you have a good support system from your spouse and family. That makes focusing on recovery so much easier.
Ha, glad you figured out a good um shall I say wipe technique. That’s definitely a helpless feeling.
As far as one arm bigger, I had a torsion fracture or spiral fracture in my left forearm, from an arm wrestling match about 25 years ago and was in a cast for 4 months. When the cast was finally removed, my right arm was still about 18 1/2”, but my left had shrunk over 4” to about 14”.
It’s pretty wild, muscle memory is beautiful thing, because after 7 months of dumbbell work my left arm was 17 3/4”. Working the dumbbells properly to build my left, while maintaining my right arm was key. Odd thing is almost all my major injuries have been left side….forearm, shoulder, pec, ribs, knee.

That is interesting about that side, being injury prone. Up until this all of my injuries have been on my right side. Shoulder surgery twice, hip issue, and biceps all on right side. Are you right or left handed. I wonder if there is any correlation with the nondominant side injuries being more prevalent?

I am a stander; I forgot most people are sitters when they wipe. Don’t try the foot on tub trick while sitting

That would be impossible for me. No tub in the master bathroom, and the toilet is in it's own cubby with it's own exhaust fan so we don't funk each other out in there. We have a big walk in shower with a 24 inch monsoon shower head and wrap around bench though. We had it set up to double as a steam shower and we sit in there together some times. It has been amazing for us showering together while I have been injured too!

 

[gphagan1]

That is interesting about that side, being injury prone. Up until this all of my injuries have been on my right side. Shoulder surgery twice, hip issue, and biceps all on right side. Are you right or left handed. I wonder if there is any correlation with the nondominant side injuries being more prevalent?
That would be impossible for me. No tub in the master bathroom, and the toilet is in it's own cubby with it's own exhaust fan so we don't funk each other out in there. We have a big walk in shower with a 24 inch monsoon shower head and wrap around bench though. We had it set up to double as a steam shower and we sit in there together some times. It has been amazing for us showering together while I have been injured too!

I’m really right handed, but I can use both sides fairly equal. I arm wrestled right and left, throw right and left, but couldn’t switch hit in baseball, all right hand hitter.

 

[MrKleen73]

I’m really right handed, but I can use both sides fairly equal. I arm wrestled right and left, throw right and left, but couldn’t switch hit in baseball, all right hand hitter.

Same on the being pretty ambidextrous. I can even write decent with my right hand, not great and a little slow but when I broke my left collar bone I got decent at it. My throwing with right hand is not as good but not bad either. I can fight both right or southpaw and can switch it up easily. I used to switch hit in baseball. I kick football / soccer balls and front/roundhouse kick more with my right leg, but side kick, and spinning back kick much better with my left.

 

[BennyMagoo79]

A lot of my injuries have been dominant side (right handed). I am proficient with both hands after realising in my late 20s that a lot of work related injuries are RSI and be prevented by actively using both hands. There is a massive carryover from doing this: I can shoot a bow and handgun both ways, and I won a bet at the pub once throwing darts with my left hand. Writing is equally terrible with both hands, just leans the other way with left.
Sounds like a textbook recovery! I think the muscles will return quickly once you are able to apply full tension again!

 

[Rocket3015]

I can't do anything left handed! However my oldest sister is ambidextrous

 

[Hyde]

A bit more information in here than I need !!

What hand do you wipe with?

 

[MrKleen73]

A lot of my injuries have been dominant side (right handed). I am proficient with both hands after realising in my late 20s that a lot of work related injuries are RSI and be prevented by actively using both hands. There is a massive carryover from doing this: I can shoot a bow and handgun both ways, and I won a bet at the pub once throwing darts with my left hand. Writing is equally terrible with both hands, just leans the other way with left.
Sounds like a textbook recovery! I think the muscles will return quickly once you are able to apply full tension again!

Yeah, I remember gaining it back super fast once I could touch a weight after my first surgery. I think I have some pics of the changes somewhere.

I can't do anything left handed! However my oldest sister is ambidextrous

It is pretty nice to be ambidextrous when you are in an immobilizer.

What hand do you wipe with?

Hopefully HIS!!!

Judging from his comment I am take a wild guess it is his right.


Took another hour long walk today, going to get in a good full body session at the gym tomorrow when I have some time to get it in. Waist seems to be getting smaller. I also noticed yesterday I was actually doing a lot of bracing, pressing my stomach into the strap around my waist to feel more secure or something. So today I just tightened the strap a little more as a reminder to keep my abs under control instead of pushing them out.

 

[RegisterJr]

I am a stander; I forgot most people are sitters when they wipe. Don’t try the foot on tub trick while sitting

No way. Is this real? People sit and wipe?

 

[MrKleen73]

No way. Is this real? People sit and wipe?

I think most people do at least according to a Twitter poll they were talking about on our local morning radio show. Makes sense it's less work. Lean to the side, pop one cheek up and tada easy access. We ain't talking about going down the middle here. LOL

 

[Rocket3015]

People Wipe ??

 

[gphagan1]

 

[MrKleen73]

People Wipe ??

Well I used to drag my butt on the floor like a dog but my wife broke me of the habit!

View attachment 221895

This is so factual if you know anything about me. LOL I take a roll of good toilet paper with me to hotels and airbnbs so I am not stuck with some BS wipe. Never understood how you gonna charge someone hundreds of dollars to stay somewhere and provide them with Russian Cold War style toilet paper.

Had a nice little session Saturday, just pushed myself a bit more than last time.

All exercises 4 work sets @ RPE8-9

Bike - 10 minutes

Super Set 1 - right side only
HS Shoulder Press - 85
HS Supinated Grip High Pull/Row machine - 85

Super Set 2
Leg Extension 190
Leg Curls - 125

Started sweating a bit so I called it. I had JoAnn take my steri-strips off before heading up to the gym to see how hard I could work. Unfortunately I still have a couple "scabs" at a few of the incisions including the biceps so I am not quite there yet to just get sweaty as all get out. At least not without the guidance of the doc or PT since the doc told me they need to be closed and I am not sure a scab counts. Not worth jumping the gun there. I am going to take the new strips off tonight and am hoping to see they are closed and I can get some real cardio and harder work in the weight room in.

Last night my anterior deltoid seemed to start waking up, did a bit of spasming a couple times that woke me up. Was a little painful but I know it is just the nerves waking the muscle back up.

 

[MrKleen73]

Just broke a 19 hour fast after walking for an hour in the tunnels. Nice meal, 8oz 93/7 beef mixed with half a can of Jalapeno Charro beans for a nice lowfat, high fiber protein explosion. I wasn't actually planning to fast today but I have been very busy and the day simply got away from me. I was going to eat one half of this concoction for early lunch and then the other half for late lunch. Going to have to push hard to get my protein in today now.

I need to weigh myself again, it seems I am losing some weight going by the support strap around my waste getting looser this past week.

 

[gphagan1]

Well I used to drag my butt on the floor like a dog but my wife broke me of the habit!

This is so factual if you know anything about me. LOL I take a roll of good toilet paper with me to hotels and airbnbs so I am not stuck with some BS wipe. Never understood how you gonna charge someone hundreds of dollars to stay somewhere and provide them with Russian Cold War style toilet paper.

Had a nice little session Saturday, just pushed myself a bit more than last time.

All exercises 4 work sets @ RPE8-9

Bike - 10 minutes

Super Set 1 - right side only
HS Shoulder Press - 85
HS Supinated Grip High Pull/Row machine - 85

Super Set 2
Leg Extension 190
Leg Curls - 125

Started sweating a bit so I called it. I had JoAnn take my steri-strips off before heading up to the gym to see how hard I could work. Unfortunately I still have a couple "scabs" at a few of the incisions including the biceps so I am not quite there yet to just get sweaty as all get out. At least not without the guidance of the doc or PT since the doc told me they need to be closed and I am not sure a scab counts. Not worth jumping the gun there. I am going to take the new strips off tonight and am hoping to see they are closed and I can get some real cardio and harder work in the weight room in.

Last night my anterior deltoid seemed to start waking up, did a bit of spasming a couple times that woke me up. Was a little painful but I know it is just the nerves waking the muscle back up.

Hey bro, it’s good you were able to put in a little work. At least that’ll help get things loosened back up and get that blood flowing.

 

[Rocket3015]

You dedication is to be admired !!

 

[MrKleen73]

Hey bro, it’s good you were able to put in a little work. At least that’ll help get things loosened back up and get that blood flowing.

Amen to that, it was good for the soul as well.

You dedication is to be admired !!

Thank you Rocket!

Great news! I spoke with the PA regarding my incisions and after letting her know there was just a little scabbing she told me I could go ahead and get a nice sweat going. I also got some more guidance regarding PT type of stuff since I was not able to get in until the 21st. So I am now passively working my arm / shoulder through the prescribed ROM. Right now it is just flexion to 140 degrees to the front, and I can gradually start to use active ROM as the pain subsides. Not going to lie getting it to 140 degrees was not a fun thing to do. I can actively move it to about 90 degrees but the pain gets a bit gnarly so I am passively going the rest of the way to 140 degrees.

My shoulder was pretty sore from moving it when I got up this morning. Not alarmingly so, just what you would expect after starting to move muscles and joints around that have been cut through recently. Going to move it a few times throughout the day to work that ROM until it loosens up. I would like to be ahead of the game or at a minimum right where they expect by the time I roll into PT next week. I feel I am a week behind after not being able to get in to see them.

Nutrition yesterday was pretty good although low in calories, I had salmon and rice last night, but still ended the day in a heavy deficit. I was able to supplement my protein last night to get to my 150g minimum goals. Made good choices regarding food and feel I am making some progress there as well. I have my lunches up here for the week now which is nice to have a little bit prepared.

I am going to hit some resistance training today and will probably walk tonight, or do my first true cardio session since surgery tomorrow. Pretty excited to not have to pay so much attention to limiting intensity and sweat!!!

 

[Hyde]

Don’t be scared to move it. Just want to stay out of real pain and be gentle in the progressions. Discomfort is fine, pain is not, and you always want to creep into new ROM delicately. More blood you can get, faster things will get right, but movement is healing. Which is basically what they said, but remember they have to deal with a lot of sissies and people that don’t know how to listen to their bodies so they have to cover their asses. Someone who knows how to contract muscles precisely and the pain of a widowmaker squat is not the standard clientele.

 

[Hyde]

This is an exciting time for you btw! Glad to hear about these next steps.

 

[gphagan1]

Great news….like Hyde said just move slowly through your progressions. Sometimes that extreme stiffness can be discouraging, but that little extra stretch and movement each session adds up, and after a few weeks you look back at how far you’ve come and it’s fuel to keep at it.
You already got 90% of people beat with the right mindset, understanding the process, and a knowledge of your body and exercise that puts you ahead of the game.

 

[SkRaw85]

Slow and smooth kleen

 

[MrKleen73]

Don’t be scared to move it. Just want to stay out of real pain and be gentle in the progressions. Discomfort is fine, pain is not, and you always want to creep into new ROM delicately. More blood you can get, faster things will get right, but movement is healing. Which is basically what they said, but remember they have to deal with a lot of sissies and people that don’t know how to listen to their bodies so they have to cover their asses. Someone who knows how to contract muscles precisely and the pain of a widowmaker squat is not the standard clientele.

Facts! I have already increased my ROM and my delt seems to be firing a little better. Worked up to doing sets of 15 to 140 degrees a couple times a day. Start with passive but have already moved to Active ROM now. It is definitely a little sore from being moved more but not in a concerning way.

This is an exciting time for you btw! Glad to hear about these next steps.

Me too, I am definitely excited about being able to work a bit harder and the idea of being able to push things in a few months. I have spent the last 2+ years spinning my wheels and being frustrated with my physical limitations. To the point I had to really lower the priority of working out in my life for sanity sake. Happy to be going into a new era.

Great news….like Hyde said just move slowly through your progressions. Sometimes that extreme stiffness can be discouraging, but that little extra stretch and movement each session adds up, and after a few weeks you look back at how far you’ve come and it’s fuel to keep at it.
You already got 90% of people beat with the right mindset, understanding the process, and a knowledge of your body and exercise that puts you ahead of the game.

Agreed, it adds up quickly. I am already starting to feel a lot better about my progress here. Clarifying with the PA and having some marching orders gave me the confidence to go ahead and start doing what is needed so I don't feel I am falling behind. General movement has improved and last night I did not wear my immobilizer until bed time. Like you said it is mostly mindset. I don't mind working to an 8 or so on the pain scale as long as it does not feel it is causing damage.

My triceps on my left hand is full on grandma arms right now. I got a glimpse of it hanging down while exercising and burst out laughing. Just this thin jiggly sack of skin and muscle softer than veal hanging there. LOL I am definitely losing some muscle mass all over from not being able to push too hard on anything. Even with working legs 2-3 times a week the limited weight I can use on leg press is not enough to maintain mass, and neither are the leg curls and extensions but at least they are not shrinking as fast. Not too worried about it though. I will rebound quickly as soon as I can really kick things up which I don't think I am too far from.

Tuesday - Resistance training

Bike = 10 minutes

Superset 1 - right hand only
DB Flat Bench - 40 x 15-10 x 4 sets
Supported Seated Row - 70 x 15-10 x 4 sets

Leg Press - 270x20, 300x15 x 3

Superset 2
Leg Extension - 130, 170x2, 190x2 15-10
Leg Curls 100, 115, 130x3 15-10 reps

I actually got some pec DOMS from this one, it felt nice but weird only being on one side.


Wednesday - 45 minutes treadmill

I will be going to train in about an hour and will do vertical upper body and will figure out what to do for legs might just be a repeat of same exercises or may try some bodyweight stuff.

Current weight is 208 as of this morning in my skivvies. I am down from 220 but that was with jeans and shoes on.

 

[MrKleen73]

Slow and smooth kleen

Yes Sir! Push just enough but don't overdo it. If things get too uncomfortable when I am doing ROM work I go back to passive ROM which seems to stop the pain until I reach the precipice of my ROM. Just trying to keep things moving, increase blood flow and ROM safely at this point.