KLEEN LIVING - A log about Life, Training, and Nutrition.

[Hyde]

Switching to zero-drop shoes was one of the best things I’ve ever done for my knees. Our society has been conditioned to wear heels
essentially for everything, because people are terribly insecure about their height in relation to others. It’s idiotic when you realize it’s entirely fashion-based, despite ergonomic harm.

 

[MrKleen73]

Switching to zero-drop shoes was one of the best things I’ve ever done for my knees. Our society has been conditioned to wear heels
essentially for everything, because people are terribly insecure about their height in relation to others. It’s idiotic when you realize it’s entirely fashion-based, despite ergonomic harm.

All of my favorite shoes are zero drop, or very close. As a lifelong member of the Too Short club... I am proud to say I have never chosen a shoe based on it making me appear taller.

 

[Dustin07]

I am proud to say I have never chosen a shoe based on it making me appear taller.

same goes for manscaping. leave half to be found later with a little work.

 

[akboom87]

@MrKleen73 yesterday was talking to one of my buddies that 10 years ago or so fell out of a tree stand broke his back, been a string of issues since. Anyway he was talking about he has been on Klow peptide for like 2 months I think he said. But anyway says he has never felt better and not completely fixed but said 90% improvement.

For the record I haven’t looked into this peptide at all. But figured I’d pass what I heard along.

 

[MrKleen73]

Oh wow, I had not heard of it but looking at it I can see why he would feel better. Something specifically for the inflammation on top of BPC and TB 500, I am not familiar with GHKu or KPV but if they do what it says then he definitely should feel good. I think I am going to look into it a little more.

KLOW is a branded 4-in-1 peptide blend designed to support tissue regeneration, reduce inflammation, and promote cellular renewal. It combines four specific, well-researched peptides: BPC-157, GHK-Cu, TB-500, and KPV. [1, 2, 3]

What's Inside the Blend
Each peptide in the KLOW stack targets a different, complementary aspect of healing and wellness: [1]

• • BPC-157: Often called the "repair engine," it supports the healing of muscles, tendons, ligaments, and the gut lining.
  • GHK-Cu: A natural copper peptide that stimulates collagen production, improves skin elasticity, and supports hair and cellular health.
  • TB-500: Known as the "coordinator," it encourages cellular migration and new blood vessel formation to speed up tissue repair.
  • KPV: An anti-inflammatory tripeptide that calms systemic inflammation, supports gut mucosal health, and balances the immune system. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Common Uses & Benefits
KLOW is widely used in anti-aging, wellness, and post-surgery recovery. Common applications include: [1, 2, 3]

• Accelerating recovery times from physical stress, injuries, or surgeries.
• Reducing chronic or localized inflammation.
• Promoting anti-aging skin benefits (e.g., firmness, texture, and reduced fine lines).
• Assisting with gastrointestinal issues, such as leaky gut or IBD. [1, 2, 3, 4]

 

[akboom87]

Oh wow, I had not heard of it but looking at it I can see why he would feel better. Something specifically for the inflammation on top of BPC and TB 500, I am not familiar with GHKu or KPV but if they do what it says then he definitely should feel good. I think I am going to look into it a little more.

KLOW is a branded 4-in-1 peptide blend designed to support tissue regeneration, reduce inflammation, and promote cellular renewal. It combines four specific, well-researched peptides: BPC-157, GHK-Cu, TB-500, and KPV. [1, 2, 3]

What's Inside the Blend
Each peptide in the KLOW stack targets a different, complementary aspect of healing and wellness: [1]

• • BPC-157: Often called the "repair engine," it supports the healing of muscles, tendons, ligaments, and the gut lining.
  • GHK-Cu: A natural copper peptide that stimulates collagen production, improves skin elasticity, and supports hair and cellular health.
  • TB-500: Known as the "coordinator," it encourages cellular migration and new blood vessel formation to speed up tissue repair.
  • KPV: An anti-inflammatory tripeptide that calms systemic inflammation, supports gut mucosal health, and balances the immune system. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Common Uses & Benefits
KLOW is widely used in anti-aging, wellness, and post-surgery recovery. Common applications include: [1, 2, 3]

• Accelerating recovery times from physical stress, injuries, or surgeries.
• Reducing chronic or localized inflammation.
• Promoting anti-aging skin benefits (e.g., firmness, texture, and reduced fine lines).
• Assisting with gastrointestinal issues, such as leaky gut or IBD. [1, 2, 3, 4]

Yeah he said it’s been a game changer and as long as he’s been messed up I tend to believe that it must be helping him for sure.

 

[Dustin07]

Just seeing 157 in there makes me think its likely helping. but I still can't help thinking of the Simpsons every time I read Klow.

 

[Hyde]

All of my favorite shoes are zero drop, or very close. As a lifelong member of the Too Short club... I am proud to say I have never chosen a shoe based on it making me appear taller.

Almost every pair of athletic/tennis shoes out there has a built up heel of some degree, plus all the dress/office shoes and even the work boots. It’s crazy!

same goes for manscaping. leave half to be found later with a little work.

Lol man any hair you leave is just a trap for sweat or chance to throw her a stray pube!

Oh wow, I had not heard of it but looking at it I can see why he would feel better. Something specifically for the inflammation on top of BPC and TB 500, I am not familiar with GHKu or KPV but if they do what it says then he definitely should feel good. I think I am going to look into it a little more.

KLOW is a branded 4-in-1 peptide blend designed to support tissue regeneration, reduce inflammation, and promote cellular renewal. It combines four specific, well-researched peptides: BPC-157, GHK-Cu, TB-500, and KPV. [1, 2, 3]

What's Inside the Blend
Each peptide in the KLOW stack targets a different, complementary aspect of healing and wellness: [1]

• • BPC-157: Often called the "repair engine," it supports the healing of muscles, tendons, ligaments, and the gut lining.
  • GHK-Cu: A natural copper peptide that stimulates collagen production, improves skin elasticity, and supports hair and cellular health.
  • TB-500: Known as the "coordinator," it encourages cellular migration and new blood vessel formation to speed up tissue repair.
  • KPV: An anti-inflammatory tripeptide that calms systemic inflammation, supports gut mucosal health, and balances the immune system. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Common Uses & Benefits
KLOW is widely used in anti-aging, wellness, and post-surgery recovery. Common applications include: [1, 2, 3]

• Accelerating recovery times from physical stress, injuries, or surgeries.
• Reducing chronic or localized inflammation.
• Promoting anti-aging skin benefits (e.g., firmness, texture, and reduced fine lines).
• Assisting with gastrointestinal issues, such as leaky gut or IBD. [1, 2, 3, 4]

GLOW is great, definitely will speed recovery and collagen synthesis, plus reduce joint pain (including the spine) with the decrease in inflammation. Went through a couple vials now, using one over the last 3 weeks before last 2 meets I’ve done to help keep things together.

Basically you go with KLOW if you also have gut troubles, which you do. It helps a lot of people and worth the money for sure.

Chris Duffin said he got a Masters client who could barely eat and train kicking ass again basically with just KLOW and a PEA supplement. I love PEA, and with my experience with GLOW I’m inclined to believe it.

 

[Dustin07]

Lol man any hair you leave is just a trap for sweat or chance to throw her a stray pube!

generally speaking, most people need to floss more

 

[MrKleen73]

Awesome, I will definitely look into it, it sounds like it should be helpful.

Yesterday was a long day for me. I rearranged my garage gym trying to make room to do a few things Sunday. I worked for about 7 hours on it and was moving a lot of heavy things around. That got me wired and when I tried to go to sleep it was almost impossible. I think I ended up with about 3 hours of sleep, and was just dragging all day yesterday. I was also pretty sore from moving everything.

I definitely tested my lower back, and it passed, but with a B, maybe a B+. I was able to move everything I attempted to, including my rack, DB stand, and ended up doing some relatively heavy farmer's carries in the process. I had to move my 85-120lb db pairs out of the garage straighten things back up and them move them in and stack them against the wall. Everything over 100 was carried in pairs to avoid being pulled off balance and possibly hurting myself. So this was the most weight I have had in my hands in a long time, and the fact I was able to walk with it without completely thrashing my lower back is pretty damn good in my book even though I can still feel it a tiny bit.

By the end I was a sweat and dust covered mess, but had made a lot of progress toward reorganizing the space to have more room and less clutter. When I woke up my lower back was touchy, and so was my right hip. Nothing too bad, but more sore than my left side. So I doubled up on my curcumin yesterday, and tried to walk enough to walk it out over the course of the day.

Recumbent bike - 35 minutes - alternating 60 seconds level 12, 60 seconds level 16, and repeat - Although I find it hard to maintain a higher HR on this, it seems to be the most forgiving in my current situation. I may try the elliptical again soon to see how my knee and lower back do with it now.

After work I drove to my Chiro / PT and went to do the check in from my car and noticed I did not have my check in notification in my text or email. So I call and didn't have an appointment set up for this week. They had only gone out so far and forget to ask me to make a new one last time. I could have waited for a while but I was super tired from not sleeping much and decided it was time to just go home and relax. I ended up passing out sitting there and Jo waking me up when she got home around 6:00PM. I was still so out of it and groggy, I pretty much had dinner and laid back down watching The Mentalist reruns until I passed out relatively early.

 

[Dustin07]

So this was the most weight I have had in my hands in a long time

I can't help but think that kind of stimulus should be really good for you, cautiously holding very heavy things. Maybe slow progression of farmers carries could help drive that heavy weight recovery stimulus?

I pretty much had dinner and laid back down watching The Mentalist reruns until I passed out relatively early.

Man I did the same thing. I got home early cause we had a guy clearing a bunch of land so I was running around in the woods guiding his giant ass skid steer around, finding more and more stuff for him to mulch up while we had him there, then passed out on the couch for a full hour before dinner, on a Monday, lol. When that actuall happens I don't even feel bad about it, I just assume it was needed!

 

[MrKleen73]

Yes, I definitely think that incorporating carries into my recovery is going to be important. As you may have seen some light carries are already being done and this garage reorg was a HUGE test for my lower back, as well as neck.

I definitely plan to start adding some more aggressive carries as I am pretty sure 40lb DB's have been the max so far. So this weekend I had an additional 160lbs of resistance than the heaviest carry I had attempted since being injured. That is a huge step. Now for certain, it was for shorter distances, but nothing says I can't do shorter carries while building things back up.

 

[Dustin07]

So this weekend I had an additional 160lbs of resistance than the heaviest carry I had attempted since being injured. That is a huge step. Now for certain, it was for shorter distances, but nothing says I can't do shorter carries while building things back up.

I don't know the science behind it but always gave credit to really heavy holds when I was rehabbing (in addition to the very light RDL's of course). super high position barbell holds/shrugs, any thing at all that let me hold heavy weight until my mobility improved.

 

[MrKleen73]

I don't know the science behind it but always gave credit to really heavy holds when I was rehabbing (in addition to the very light RDL's of course). super high position barbell holds/shrugs, any thing at all that let me hold heavy weight until my mobility improved.

I think there is some collagen action that increases with heavy holds, but I don't remember for certain.

 

[Dustin07]

I think there is some collagen action that increases with heavy holds, but I don't remember for certain.

not totally related but I was telling my wife last week I don't remember the last time I saw a scientific study that impressed me or seemed counter intuitive to real life. Bro science is funny cause its like "well everything hurt. hold heavy thing make pain go away. why hold heavy thing. i dont know. its science. hold it."

like every time a great study comes out it I feel like it just explains common sense with nerd talk more than it actually impresses me with breakthrough information.

 

[MrKleen73]

not totally related but I was telling my wife last week I don't remember the last time I saw a scientific study that impressed me or seemed counter intuitive to real life. Bro science is funny cause its like "well everything hurt. hold heavy thing make pain go away. why hold heavy thing. i dont know. its science. hold it."

like every time a great study comes out it I feel like it just explains common sense with nerd talk more than it actually impresses me with breakthrough information.

View attachment 261521

Yeah, a lot of studies for fitness and performance based stuff seem to be behind the "bro-science" curve. I feel like a lot of what we are learning is really just proving pre-existing bro-science to be accurate. One of the bigger things recently that was a real shake up was that long range partials were as good for hypertrophy as full ROM for the most part if not more so. I think that was the last one I looked into that was surprising, but I was already deep into the working things from the stretched position due to my work with RP methods. I knew it made things harder, so I was not super surprised to hear that and it was much easier for me to swallow than it was for many.

 

[Segansational]

Switching to zero-drop shoes was one of the best things I’ve ever done for my knees. Our society has been conditioned to wear heels
essentially for everything, because people are terribly insecure about their height in relation to others. It’s idiotic when you realize it’s entirely fashion-based, despite ergonomic harm.

I was actually going to mention this too - particularly since Kleen wears zero drop shoes a lot I recall, barefoots, etc. That shift alone from totally flat to an exaggerated elevation would definitely be a shock to the system and put strain on the knee.

@MrKleen73 yesterday was talking to one of my buddies that 10 years ago or so fell out of a tree stand broke his back, been a string of issues since. Anyway he was talking about he has been on Klow peptide for like 2 months I think he said. But anyway says he has never felt better and not completely fixed but said 90% improvement.

For the record I haven’t looked into this peptide at all. But figured I’d pass what I heard along.

KLOW I was just seeing a short video clip on. Just a heads up, while BPC, TB, and GHK are relatively stable - KPV does not seem to be as much. So just something to think about if you don't plan to use right away.

Chris Duffin said he got a Masters client who could barely eat and train kicking ass again basically with just KLOW and a PEA supplement. I love PEA, and with my experience with GLOW I’m inclined to believe it.

Assume the PEA here is the palmitoyleth... whatever that SNS makes, not the PEA phenethyl something like a short acting stim analog?

not totally related but I was telling my wife last week I don't remember the last time I saw a scientific study that impressed me or seemed counter intuitive to real life. Bro science is funny cause its like "well everything hurt. hold heavy thing make pain go away. why hold heavy thing. i dont know. its science. hold it."

like every time a great study comes out it I feel like it just explains common sense with nerd talk more than it actually impresses me with breakthrough information.

[

Well, as a former scientist, I want to point out that with the scientific method you always start out with a hypothesis. So often in the case of fitness studies it is taking a technique that has been used by lifters (eg, bro science) and trying to determine for example, what is the underlying mechanism contributing to the positive outcomes anecdotally (if hypothesis is proven true), and/or verifying what individual component of that process is the actual one "doing the work" mechanistically (eg, break down the overall process into single components for isolation testing without other influencing variables), or if the data leads you there - identifying the contrary if it turns out not to be true.

 

[MrKleen73]

I was actually going to mention this too - particularly since Kleen wears zero drop shoes a lot I recall, barefoots, etc. That shift alone from totally flat to an exaggerated elevation would definitely be a shock to the system and put strain on the knee.



KLOW I was just seeing a short video clip on. Just a heads up, while BPC, TB, and GHK are relatively stable - KPV does not seem to be as much. So just something to think about if you don't plan to use right away.



Assume the PEA here is the palmitoyleth... whatever that SNS makes, not the PEA phenethyl something like a short acting stim analog?



Well, as a former scientist, I want to point out that with the scientific method you always start out with a hypothesis. So often in the case of fitness studies it is taking a technique that has been used by lifters (eg, bro science) and trying to determine for example, what is the underlying mechanism contributing to the positive outcomes anecdotally (if hypothesis is proven true), and/or verifying what individual component of that process is the actual one "doing the work" mechanistically (eg, break down the overall process into single components for isolation testing without other influencing variables), or if the data leads you there - identifying the contrary if it turns out not to be true.

1. That also makes a lot of sense.
2. Great point, I will keep that in mind. Once I get some I will likely be using it relatively quickly. It isn't cheap, so I won't be purchasing it until I am ready to put it to use.

On Studies: That, and also quite simply there wasn't enough interest or money involved in fitness / hypertrophy for people to see these studies as worthwhile investments. The explosion of fitness that has come as a result of social media has made the sector much more lucrative, so now people are more willing to put money into finding out. So they are really just now looking deeply into these things since there is now money in it. So it makes sense they are a little behind the curve.

I only ended up taking my hour walk yesterday, I had some stuff to take care of around the house after my PT session. Today I will do both, walk or cardio at lunch, and some resistance training after work. Feeling pretty good and motivated, my back is pretty much fully recovered from all the hard work Sunday. Not sure what I will do, but I know I will do my best.

 

[gphagan1]

 

[Hyde]

KLOW I was just seeing a short video clip on. Just a heads up, while BPC, TB, and GHK are relatively stable - KPV does not seem to be as much. So just something to think about if you don't plan to use right away.


Assume the PEA here is the palmitoyleth... whatever that SNS makes, not the PEA phenethyl something like a short acting stim analog?

KLOW will be stable before reconstitution; it’s once you have it in solution you should mind things. Duffin has a vid on his YouTube where he paid to have testing on a bunch of the common peptides he peddles at Day 1 and after a month reconstituted, and everything was like 9x% after 30 days still. Most of it unchanged by more than a couple percent. Considering the vial is basically dosed to be a one month supply if you recon with 3ml and take 0.1ml daily (10 units), you would only worry if you planned to stretch it a LONG. time.

Yessir; the substance naturally found in your body (as found in SNS PEA Relief). NOT the stimulant

 

[gphagan1]

I love SNS Pea Relief

 

[MrKleen73]

View attachment 261536

LMAO!!! Dude is hilarious but I wish he would shut up with his preaching woke nonsense and just entertain. It's like Dude, no one takes you seriously, why are you preaching like people should.

KLOW will be stable before reconstitution; it’s once you have it in solution you should mind things. Duffin has a vid on his YouTube where he paid to have testing on a bunch of the common peptides he peddles at Day 1 and after a month reconstituted, and everything was like 9x% after 30 days still. Most of it unchanged by more than a couple percent. Considering the vial is basically dosed to be a one month supply if you recon with 3ml and take 0.1ml daily (10 units), you would only worry if you planned to stretch it a LONG. time.

Yessir; the substance naturally found in your body (as found in SNS PEA Relief). NOT the stimulant

Good to know.

I love SNS Pea Relief

I have only used the old PEA, way back when, that and phenibut during my bulk powder days. I need to have a look into it again and see what all it does. I used to know ever ingredient that was popular in depth, and make my own mixtures with bulk powders, but it has been so long now. I have forgot about 80% of what I knew back in the day. I am sure i just need a refresher but after spending so much cash on natty supps back in the day and then moving to oils, I just kind of stopped looking into the natty stuff. Now that I am getting older, and taking health and longevity more into account, I think I need to start being in the know again.

 

[Dustin07]

I was actually going to mention this too - particularly since Kleen wears zero drop shoes a lot I recall, barefoots, etc. That shift alone from totally flat to an exaggerated elevation would definitely be a shock to the system and put strain on the knee.

reminds me, I recently found my vibrams and relearned how to get the toes all in them (haha) I want to start integrating those into my life again here and there, although cautiously, as they take time to get the calf/achilles used to it.

Well, as a former scientist, I want to point out that with the scientific method you always start out with a hypothesis. So often in the case of fitness studies it is taking a technique that has been used by lifters (eg, bro science) and trying to determine for example, what is the underlying mechanism contributing to the positive outcomes anecdotally (if hypothesis is proven true)

really good point and I wish more people understood this.
I'd wager that a disconnect between bro science and nerd science is that bro science is miscommunicated. Not so much the approach, execution, or results, but how its interpreted. Kinda like partial roms discussed here, etc. human biology hasn't changed much in the past 70 years and its rare that I see someone come up with a novel idea that discredits anything that Arnold did in the 60s, yet people will teach you 180 degree opposites to his approach on nutrition, training, form, and ROM all the time.

View attachment 261536

this got me

 

[MrKleen73]

reminds me, I recently found my vibrams and relearned how to get the toes all in them (haha) I want to start integrating those into my life again here and there, although cautiously, as they take time to get the calf/achilles used to it.



really good point and I wish more people understood this.
I'd wager that a disconnect between bro science and nerd science is that bro science is miscommunicated. Not so much the approach, execution, or results, but how its interpreted. Kinda like partial roms discussed here, etc. human biology hasn't changed much in the past 70 years and its rare that I see someone come up with a novel idea that discredits anything that Arnold did in the 60s, yet people will teach you 180 degree opposites to his approach on nutrition, training, form, and ROM all the time.


this got me

As Arnold said there is no right way for everyone. You have to find the right way for you. Some people do better with lower volume higher intensity, and vice versa. I think that is always a part of the issue. A lot of things work, and work well even if they seem to conflict with one another. Then there are other things that seem to be similar across populations like the long range partials which was gleaned from a mega-study review with people using all different type of approaches.

 

[Segansational]

really good point and I wish more people understood this.
I'd wager that a disconnect between bro science and nerd science is that bro science is miscommunicated. Not so much the approach, execution, or results, but how its interpreted. Kinda like partial roms discussed here, etc. human biology hasn't changed much in the past 70 years and its rare that I see someone come up with a novel idea that discredits anything that Arnold did in the 60s, yet people will teach you 180 degree opposites to his approach on nutrition, training, form, and ROM all the time.

Yep, the real issue here though I think - and in today's society in general, particularly on social media - is that context matters.

You can't just read the abstract of a study. You can't usually make one definitive statement about x, that's why there's a limitations and discussion section. But nuance is something that in today's world of "soundbites" and click bait for views doesn't seem to be a thing any longer.

Also the algorithms need the quick headline to generate views, so people talk in absolutes.

But also, I'd say that for some people (particularly gym bros who just love lifting) they also might not care why something works, as long as it works. Stick with the formula. But, for others where time, injury, etc. as examples might be a limiting factor or for other reasons, just cutting down to the "necessary" training component or knowing the "why" a certain technique is effective could be the difference maker.

 

[Dustin07]

Also the algorithms need the quick headline to generate views, so people talk in absolutes.

man when I see that stuff now days I just keep scrolling, I don't even listen to what they say. "you're not progressing because..." or "the real reason you can't lose that 10lbs is"... and i'm like pass.

But also, I'd say that for some people (particularly gym bros who just love lifting) they also might not care why something works, as long as it works. Stick with the formula. But, for others where time, injury, etc. as examples might be a limiting factor or for other reasons, just cutting down to the "necessary" training component or knowing the "why" a certain technique is effective could be the difference maker.

man so true.

 

[MrKleen73]

This has me thinking now about what have we learned in the last decade or so that wasn't known or surprised people in the fitness / muscle building world.

1. Fasting absolutely has a place in the pursuit of an aesthetic physique, and even performance world.
2. Long Range Partials being as effective as full rom for hypertrophy as mentioned
3. Heavy weight not being required for hypertrophy as long as you went close to failure

Can anyone else think of anything?

 

[Dustin07]

3. Heavy weight not being required for hypertrophy as long as you went close to failure

back in the day when we used to think you needed 20+ rep sets for things like shrugs I remember a study coming out on this topic basically coming to the conclusion that the actual beneficial experience here was TUT. 5 grinded out slow reps that were done as fast or slow as 10-20 (or whatever) had the same stimulus as one another.

You can look at a guy like Hyde who has built a solid level of mass as a long time power lifter and see that he's developed nearly bodybuilding levels of lean mass without spending a decade doing bodybuilder style hypertrophy work. I think doing volume has its place, especially if you enjoy it, but in many ways Rippetoe was still right, if you squat, pull, press, and throw in powercleans you're 90% of the way there (even if the last 10% is very hard).

Not totally related but in terms of studies you gotta also ask who stands to benefit. I'm so sick of creatine after 20+ years of use I don't even think about it anymore and I get it largely via osmosis from other supplements. I don't even care if I have it or not. if I'm salted and carbed I get more value anyways. but all the sudden the whole world went on a creatine kick in the last year.

oh and now that alcohol sales are down like 40%, everyone is telling us about the mental dangers of cannabis use, lol.

I dont' trust anyone haha

 

[Dustin07]

5 grinded out slow reps that were done as fast or slow as 10-20 (or whatever) had the same stimulus as one another.

You can look at a guy like Hyde who has built a solid level of mass as a long time power lifter and see that he's developed nearly bodybuilding levels of lean mass without spending a decade doing bodybuilder style hypertrophy work. I think doing volume has its place,

when I was doing a thousand squats every single day in xfit I had huge legs. when I stopped and switched to deads they atrophied horribly. When I brought back squats my legs grew plenty again. slacks are tight, knee sleeves are tight, the mass is back. but I've only been training them in mostly low rep schemes (with the occasional 5x10 bbb) and I think my legs are as big as they ever were.

The only measurement I haven't taken which I would say could be laggard would be chest/lats. I always had a huge chest on a narrow frame when 10% or lower bf. I would guess its equal to my best size, if not a hair smaller, but no bigger. I'm far stronger now in all chest and back movements, but I'm not doing 350 pull-ups and pushups any more so that might be a contradicting anecdote there...

 

[Hyde]

You can look at a guy like Hyde who has built a solid level of mass as a long time power lifter and see that he's developed nearly bodybuilding levels of lean mass without spending a decade doing bodybuilder style hypertrophy work. I think doing volume has its place, especially if you enjoy it, but in many ways Rippetoe was still right, if you squat, pull, press, and throw in powercleans you're 90% of the way there (even if the last 10% is very hard).

I don’t do quite the volume that many dedicated bodybuilders do, but I would say I definitely have accomplished a lot of bodybuilding accessory to build what I have. I mean my squat, bench, and deadlift are primarily propped up by the secondary volume I acquire through variations like frontsquats, closegrips & RDLs, as well as things like Hacksquats, GHR, and machine pressing at times.

I don’t think Rippetoe was ever as muscular looking as I am (and he was natty, so that would make sense), nor will his system produce that in general for most without extra volume added. I think he’s saying SS will get you 90% of your strength potential, just doing big lifts, but that tends to run out of road at higher levels (mainly due to wear & tear with bigger weights). There’s only one guy I know who took SS to a 2,000lb total. But even to get that he found adding things like incline bench, curls and pec deck for a while pushed him to a PR benchpress that helped make that total, after a lot of stagnation on bench for a long time.

Buck Tow Truck doing 730 in sleeves, 470 bench, 800 conventional hookgrip:

 

[Dustin07]

I don’t do quite the volume that many dedicated bodybuilders do, but I would say I definitely have accomplished a lot of bodybuilding accessory to build what I have. I mean my squat, bench, and deadlift are primarily propped up by the secondary volume I acquire through variations like frontsquats, closegrips & RDLs, as well as things like Hacksquats, GHR, and machine pressing at times.

oh I know that you do, do those things, I'm just saying its not like a Jay Cutler split where today is shoulders and traps and tomorrow is arms type approach to BB hypertrophy vs PL accessories. I'm not by any means belittling the things that you do, my only point was that you've built a shitload of lean mass with a PL focus (even though the hypertrophy work exists) and people so often get into one camp or the other.