Kickstarting vs Endloading??

monsterbox

monsterbox

Well-known member
Is kickstarting simply for instant gratification while waiting on the ester? Because if so, wouldn't it make more long term sense to wait until the end of the cycle to through in the orals, as the end of the cycle, the body is getting used to the levels and beings to plateu?

I'm about to run my first cycle of test. I'm going to stack havoc with it...everyone is telling me to frontload, but I'm thinking it would make more sense to backload. This way, I can see truly what gains I'm making from the test alone, and when gains slow, I can throw in the oral for a quick boost.
 
yeah well there's those two ways to think about it. My thinking favors running your mass-building orals up front. This way you make big gains in size and strength initially and can build off it during the whole cycle. This way, you spend more time with a higher bodyweight and with higher strength levels, and you have more time to get used to it. The more time you spend at a strength level elevated by strong orals, the more likely you'll be to keep the gains.

Let us say, theoretically, that either way you run the havoc, you gain 15 pounds from it, and you gain 10 pounds from the testosterone. Would you rather gain the 15 pounds at the very beginning, and slowly build off that and finish at +25? Or would you rather spend all that time on just test, gain 10 pounds, and then blow up with +15 at the very end?

This mentality works for a mass-building oral. If you are using an oral that functions as a hardener and doesn't impart any mass gains then the back end of the cycle is a good place for it... some people think their gains are more keepable if they're hardened up at the end although i'm not real sure about this but certainly muscle density counts for something.

Ultimately you could do both. A dbol kickstart and a winstrol finish over a test base, for instance, has been done a million times. To me, it makes a hell of a lot more sense than a winstrol kickstart and a dbol finish.

Anyway the bottom line is, you'll keep more gains if you have had those gains longer, and that is accomplished by running any mass building compounds up front.
 
UnrealMachine said:
yeah well there's those two ways to think about it. My thinking favors running your mass-building orals up front. This way you make big gains in size and strength initially and can build off it during the whole cycle. This way, you spend more time with a higher bodyweight and with higher strength levels, and you have more time to get used to it. The more time you spend at a strength level elevated by strong orals, the more likely you'll be to keep the gains.

Let us say, theoretically, that either way you run the havoc, you gain 15 pounds from it, and you gain 10 pounds from the testosterone. Would you rather gain the 15 pounds at the very beginning, and slowly build off that and finish at +25? Or would you rather spend all that time on just test, gain 10 pounds, and then blow up with +15 at the very end?

This mentality works for a mass-building oral. If you are using an oral that functions as a hardener and doesn't impart any mass gains then the back end of the cycle is a good place for it... some people think their gains are more keepable if they're hardened up at the end although i'm not real sure about this but certainly muscle density counts for something.

Ultimately you could do both. A dbol kickstart and a winstrol finish over a test base, for instance, has been done a million times. To me, it makes a hell of a lot more sense than a winstrol kickstart and a dbol finish.

Anyway the bottom line is, you'll keep more gains if you have had those gains longer, and that is accomplished by running any mass building compounds up front.
Click to expand...

My thinking on the best way to use orals and what orals.... dbol up front and anavar at the end
 
Up front I feel is much more beneficial, you allow yourself to jump weight and then get used to it over a longer period of time, I feel if you put on too much weight at the end your bound to lose some of it. Even if its just from not giving yourself enough time to get used to your newly required diet.
 
hey unreal what do u think about my SD/ ANADROL stack, Invalid Link Removed , as kick start? im thinking of ending it with 6 weeks of winnie btw its a 4 months test cycle
 
I agree with your theory of hitting a plateau at the end of cycle.. I typically do both since my cycles are usually upwards up 20+ weeks.
 
Week 1-8 Cut
Test E 500mg 1-8
Winstrol 50mg/day 1-6
T3/Clen 1-8

Week 10-19 bulk
Test E 750mg 10-19
EQ 500mg 10-19
Dbol 40mg/day 10-15

when gains slow down, change up injectibles and throw in an oral.
 
GLHF said:
Week 1-8 Cut
Test E 500mg 1-8
Winstrol 50mg/day 1-6
T3/Clen 1-8

Week 10-19 bulk
Test E 750mg 10-19
EQ 500mg 10-19
Dbol 40mg/day 10-15

when gains slow down, change up injectibles and throw in an oral.
Click to expand...
Looks good! Smart concept as well :)
 
kickstart/frontload OVER endloading IMO

i do believe in just doing 10mg/day dbol while off of test before PCT.
 
I agree with Unreal. I would also add that using Dianabol to finish off a long-estered Test based cycle is a good idea. You can use it to keep androgen levels high (while also boosting libido and mental well-being) while the Test slowly tapers off.
 
Front load with dbol.
End with winny, unless you have the pockets for var.
I just don't have the patience. When I get on, I want to be on.
Plus once the oils really start kicking in, you wont need orals unless you want to harden up.
 
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