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Just What Are We Consuming?!

MidwestBeast

MidwestBeast

Legend
***Disclaimer: This thread is not meant for the discussion of contamination, etc.***




I've recently been doing some more digging and researching to figure out exactly how many calories I actually am taking in on a daily basis. I thought I'd been doing a pretty stellar job of it (meticulously logging it through fitday), but now I'm not so sure. For whatever reason, I just tucked it away to consider counting BCAAs toward my total calories for the day. I know a lot of you will say it makes minimal difference and it's not a big deal if it's a constant -- true. However, if I'm honestly wanting to log an exact amount of energy consumed, I'd like to know that.

So, my understanding is this: the FDA doesn't allow amino acids to be counted as calories on nutrition labels because they're not complete proteins. However, if you're wanting to actually monitor the specific amount of energy you're consuming (whether it's to hover around that caloric maintenance or deficit line, or because you're mega-dosing the stuff), you'd want to factor these into your daily totals.

What I've gathered is that we still want to count 1g BCAAs as 4kcal, just as we would with any other protein (though the exact amount is debatable due to TEF). What I'm more interested in, now, is how to tally other amino acids (e.g. EAAs, glutamine, arginine, beta alanine, DAA). Do they follow the same 4kcal/g rule? If so, this kind of starts to add up (for those who are hard-gainers, maybe not for you, but for the endomorphs it may).

And what about protein powders with added amino acids? I know you're going to end up with an extent of amino acids within the protein, but many have additional amino acids added to the product (but are not counted on the calorie portion of the nutrition label).

So what are everyone's thoughts on this?
 
Just count all aminos as 1g protein, this includes others outside of BCAA, I usually just count any amino that is an EAA tho.
 
yeah like i was saying in the BCAA thread the other day, what about 10 or 20 or 25 grams of glutamine? is that X4 calories? many of us mega-dose arginine and carnitine as well.....I've always counted BCAA as 1 gram BCAA = 1 gram protein but what about all these other aminos we take separately? anything you can count for protein will affect your total protein intake, as well if these things add up to 100 or 200 cals over the course of a day, that is a decent amount of calories potentially.
 
MidwestBeast said:
***Disclaimer: This thread is not meant for the discussion of contamination, etc.***




I've recently been doing some more digging and researching to figure out exactly how many calories I actually am taking in on a daily basis. I thought I'd been doing a pretty stellar job of it (meticulously logging it through fitday), but now I'm not so sure. For whatever reason, I just tucked it away to consider counting BCAAs toward my total calories for the day. I know a lot of you will say it makes minimal difference and it's not a big deal if it's a constant -- true. However, if I'm honestly wanting to log an exact amount of energy consumed, I'd like to know that.

So, my understanding is this: the FDA doesn't allow amino acids to be counted as calories on nutrition labels because they're not complete proteins. However, if you're wanting to actually monitor the specific amount of energy you're consuming (whether it's to hover around that caloric maintenance or deficit line, or because you're mega-dosing the stuff), you'd want to factor these into your daily totals.

What I've gathered is that we still want to count 1g BCAAs as 4kcal, just as we would with any other protein (though the exact amount is debatable due to TEF). What I'm more interested in, now, is how to tally other amino acids (e.g. EAAs, glutamine, arginine, beta alanine, DAA). Do they follow the same 4kcal/g rule? If so, this kind of starts to add up (for those who are hard-gainers, maybe not for you, but for the endomorphs it may).

And what about protein powders with added amino acids? I know you're going to end up with an extent of amino acids within the protein, but many have additional amino acids added to the product (but are not counted on the calorie portion of the nutrition label).

So what are everyone's thoughts on this?
Click to expand...

I've tried different things of BCAA's and I know some of them do have calories on them. MuscleTech Nitro FX is 70 cals per scoop, so i base other BCAA's on that as well for a baseline. I use myfitnesspal.com for all my calorie counting.
 
D2footballjrc said:
I've tried different things of BCAA's and I know some of them do have calories on them. MuscleTech Nitro FX is 70 cals per scoop, so i base other BCAA's on that as well for a baseline. I use myfitnesspal.com for all my calorie counting.
Click to expand...

They do count the BCAA/Aminos as cals in that product. but there is .5 fat and 4 grams carbs in there too, so the aminos account for 50-55 of those 70 cals. That is one of the first labels i've seen that actually acknowledge the aminos as cals.
 
nattydisaster said:
Some products count aminos as protein/calories. Ever seen those "protein shots"? They have like 45g protein. Look at the label...
Click to expand...

Yeah, the inconsistency in how it's recorded is what doesn't sit well with me (not something against the company, either). I would just like to see a uniformity in this.

But do the others I listed out, like beta alanine, glutamine, etc. all factor in as being measured the same way as BCAAs? And like I said, the protein products with added aminos are probably the most difficult to calculate because how do we know what's added and what's a byproduct of the protein itself?

I just want to know a more accurate representation of how many calories I'm truly consuming.
 
I remember I was at CVS and saw the protein shot thing at the counter. It was tiny. I was like there is no way 45g protein is in this little thing...oh wait...there isnt.
 
Ignore the labels. Here is reality:

4 cal per gram of AAs - BCAAs, EAAs, Arginine, etc
Also maltodextrin isn't counted a sugar on labels [and it isn't technically a sugar], but you should treat it as such [if you worry about such things].
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Ignore the labels. Here is reality:

4 cal per gram of AAs - BCAAs, EAAs, Arginine, etc
Also maltodextrin isn't counted a sugar on labels [and it isn't technically a sugar], but you should treat it as such [if you worry about such things].
Click to expand...

So the average supplement addict is taking in many more calories than he may be aware. By the time you add up intra-workouts, pre-workouts, and all the other aminos that are in things, it can really add up.
 
MidwestBeast said:
So the average supplement addict is taking in many more calories than he may be aware. By the time you add up intra-workouts, pre-workouts, and all the other aminos that are in things, it can really add up.
Click to expand...

it sure can, but the bottom line is consistency. if you didn't count them before, don't count them now.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
it sure can, but the bottom line is consistency. if you didn't count them before, don't count them now.
Click to expand...

That makes perfect sense. So in essence we are consuming a lot more "calories" than we thought. Pre workout now has a whole lot more cals because I never counted ba, bcaa, creatine etc as calories before. But I reality they do count. Hard for me to wrap my head around. But definitely makes sense.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
it sure can, but the bottom line is consistency. if you didn't count them before, don't count them now.
Click to expand...

Oh, I agree.

But what I think more of is the fact of when I want to double down on a pre-workout or take an extra helping to focus at work, or maybe I slam some extra BCAAs near the end of the day because I don't want to eat anything.

Those are instances that aren't on my regular daily list of things, but they're still adding cals. If you don't change anything in your diet, then you're fine, but for those who have some variance on occasion, it just really opens your eyes.

I always thought I was consuming so few calories, but in essence, I was taking in a good amount more than what I thought. So the guy who doesn't touch a dietary supplement but eats 3,200 calories may in fact be consuming the same as me when I'm taking in 2,700 with a large number of supplements.

Definitely adds a major perspective to things.
 
MidwestBeast said:
Oh, I agree.

But what I think more of is the fact of when I want to double down on a pre-workout or take an extra helping to focus at work, or maybe I slam some extra BCAAs near the end of the day because I don't want to eat anything.

Those are instances that aren't on my regular daily list of things, but they're still adding cals. If you don't change anything in your diet, then you're fine, but for those who have some variance on occasion, it just really opens your eyes.

I always thought I was consuming so few calories, but in essence, I was taking in a good amount more than what I thought. So the guy who doesn't touch a dietary supplement but eats 3,200 calories may in fact be consuming the same as me when I'm taking in 2,700 with a large number of supplements.

Definitely adds a major perspective to things.
Click to expand...

I always wondered about this. Like not only bcaas but glutamine, GABA, any nootropic aminos. All add to our energy intake.
 
MidwestBeast said:
So the average supplement addict is taking in many more calories than he may be aware. By the time you add up intra-workouts, pre-workouts, and all the other aminos that are in things, it can really add up.
Click to expand...

Interesting....hmmmm. I would assume so..
 
mr.cooper69 said:
I was actually following the article until he made the argument that smaller food particles contain more energy because they're easier to digest.
Click to expand...

well, depending on the item, surface area vs total mass could make some difference, particularly with hard to digest foods. Swallow peanuts whole, or swallow ground peanuts and which digests easier - ie gives more total caloric content?
 
I guess if you're snacking on whole vs ground foods that makes sense [to a degree almost not worth noting IMO]. But if you're consuming meals consisting of a large bulk and variety of food, whole vs ground makes no difference.

By that guy's logic, free form BCAAs, dextrose, etc should be loaded with calories since they undergo zero digestion.
 
yeah, the interesting part though was on cooked vs raw, I never really thought about that. For eggs sure it makes sense as the protein isn't totally available raw, but I hadn't thought it made that much of a difference as it did in his animal studies.
 
EasyEJL said:
yeah, the interesting part though was on cooked vs raw, I never really thought about that. For eggs sure it makes sense as the protein isn't totally available raw, but I hadn't thought it made that much of a difference as it did in his animal studies.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's very interesting. We always argue that eggs are more efficient protein sources when cooked, and yet this is the first time someone has ever brought up the extra calories.
 
You gotta watch out for those labels as well.....you got 8 ounces of raw meat that equals 6-7 ounces cooked....and the label/website may list raw weight or cooked weight. Another way you can add/lose calories/protein and add things up wrong. You have to make sure you are using the correct weight when adding calories. I know you pro's know this lol, but for some that might not be aware. I always like when its not listed as to if its a cooked or raw weight, which happens time to time. then what? I guess find another listing that gives you the info you require.
 
So, my current pre-workout contains:

  • Creatine Nitrate - 1762mg
  • BCAA Nitrates (4:1:1) - 567mg
  • L-Citrulline - 1175mg
  • Citrulline-Malate - 2350mg
  • Beta Alanine - 2350mg
  • B3 (Niacin) - 117mg
  • B6 - 70mg
  • B12 - 176mcg
  • Vitamin C - 587mg
  • Stevia Reb A 97 - 80mg
  • N&A Lemon Lime Flavoring - 1200mg

So, the creatine, B and C vitamins shouldn't contain any calories, correct? Or is that something I'm wrong on, as well? I don't know enough about the Stevia to know if that plays a role or not.

But The BCAAs and Beta Alanine add up to 2,917mg, so let's say 3g or 12 calories, correct? Does the nitrate bond play any role in how the energy/kcals are figured? I know that the nitrate bond basically results in more effectiveness and thus lower doses of the product, so it wouldn't be surprising to me if it was a factor. And I have no clue if the L-Citrulline or Citrulline Malate would be added as calories or not; if they are, that's 3,525mg or let's say 14kcal.
 
MidwestBeast said:
So, my current pre-workout contains:


[*]Creatine Nitrate - 1762mg
[*]BCAA Nitrates (4:1:1) - 567mg
[*]L-Citrulline - 1175mg
[*]Citrulline-Malate - 2350mg
[*]Beta Alanine - 2350mg
[*]B3 (Niacin) - 117mg
[*]B6 - 70mg
[*]B12 - 176mcg
[*]Vitamin C - 587mg
[*]Stevia Reb A 97 - 80mg
[*]N&A Lemon Lime Flavoring - 1200mg


So, the creatine, B and C vitamins shouldn't contain any calories, correct? Or is that something I'm wrong on, as well? I don't know enough about the Stevia to know if that plays a role or not.

But The BCAAs and Beta Alanine add up to 2,917mg, so let's say 3g or 12 calories, correct? Does the nitrate bond play any role in how the energy/kcals are figured? I know that the nitrate bond basically results in more effectiveness and thus lower doses of the product, so it wouldn't be surprising to me if it was a factor. And I have no clue if the L-Citrulline or Citrulline Malate would be added as calories or not; if they are, that's 3,525mg or let's say 14kcal.
Click to expand...

Hmm. If nitrates make that much of a difference than perhaps I should look into a bcaa nitrate blend next time. And perhaps some HICA instead of straight leucine.
 
mattrag said:
Hmm. If nitrates make that much of a difference than perhaps I should look into a bcaa nitrate blend next time. And perhaps some HICA instead of straight leucine.
Click to expand...

Did hica ever pan out? I've been thinking of trying hicamax out of curiosity
 
MidwestBeast said:
So, my current pre-workout contains:
  • Creatine Nitrate - 1762mg
  • BCAA Nitrates (4:1:1) - 567mg
  • L-Citrulline - 1175mg
  • Citrulline-Malate - 2350mg
  • Beta Alanine - 2350mg
  • B3 (Niacin) - 117mg
  • B6 - 70mg
  • B12 - 176mcg
  • Vitamin C - 587mg
  • Stevia Reb A 97 - 80mg
  • N&A Lemon Lime Flavoring - 1200mg
So, the creatine, B and C vitamins shouldn't contain any calories, correct? Or is that something I'm wrong on, as well? I don't know enough about the Stevia to know if that plays a role or not.

But The BCAAs and Beta Alanine add up to 2,917mg, so let's say 3g or 12 calories, correct? Does the nitrate bond play any role in how the energy/kcals are figured? I know that the nitrate bond basically results in more effectiveness and thus lower doses of the product, so it wouldn't be surprising to me if it was a factor. And I have no clue if the L-Citrulline or Citrulline Malate would be added as calories or not; if they are, that's 3,525mg or let's say 14kcal.
Click to expand...

I don't believe BA provides the human body with energy (someone correct me if I'm wrong). The BCAA Nitrates prob pan out to around half that value, so its too low to matter (1 calorie).
 
I know I have always counted the 25 grams of BCAA and the 20 grams of Glutamine, as well as say 5 grams of arginine and a few grams of carnitine as approx 200 cals and approx 50 grams of protein. I usually don't tell people about the glutamine and arginine portion, since I figure it will start an argument of some sort, or they will tell me I am wrong/stupid for doing it and then I'm liable to get pissed. But now everybody knows my dirty amino secret :lol:
 
mr.cooper69 said:
I don't believe BA provides the human body with energy (someone correct me if I'm wrong). The BCAA Nitrates prob pan out to around half that value, so its too low to matter (1 calorie).
Click to expand...

I was going off of the image/diagram, here:

Invalid Link Removed

Alanine is listed at the bottom along with the BCAAs, so I didn't know.

In all honesty, though, I haven't even been tallying BCAAs up toward my caloric total. This is all very new to me (and with my science background of essentially zero, at the moment, I don't have the understanding that many of you do, here).
 
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