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is there anything natty that

Of course.

-Creatine (the most studied workout supplement)
-Caffeine (improves stamina and endurance during workouts)
-Other PWO ingredients (Cit Mal, Betaine, Beta Alanine, focus ingredients)
-Arachidonic Acid (strength and mass gains)
-Phosphatidic Acid
-Epicatechin

I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting. Obviously they won't have the same effects as hormonal supplements, but they definitely offer benefits.
 
What kind of benifits you looking for?

Something like Alphamax XT provides plenty of benifits, it is not fair to compare it to something not natty though.

Benifits of Alphamax XT include a boost to free test, increase in lean mass, better sleep, estrogen and cortisol control, reduced stress.
 
lilbigman15 said:
actually gives any benefit?
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Pretty general question, but I'm assuming that your question is regarding benefits for strength and muscle gain, which is what most members are after. There are a lot of natural products and ingredients that are studied and proven to provide benefits in strength, performance, and recovery.

Mike gave some great natural ingredients that are incredibly beneficial. As far as strength and size gains, creatine will be your foundational ingredient. It's been proven in many studies to be beneficial for these goals. A product like Powermax XT would be a great natural product that addresses all of your daily staple needs, including creatine and betaine, to improve strength, performance, and recovery.

Is there any specific benefit you're looking for in a natural product that hasn't been covered by the other posts here?
 
Creatine
Betaine
Beta alanine
Carnitine
Phosphatidic Acid
Arachidonic Acid
Forskolin
Creatinol-O-Phosphate
Yohimbe
Agmatine
Berberine
Na-R-Ala
Cistanche Deserticola
Anacyclus Pyrethrum
Lodhra Bark
Ephedrine
Rhodiala Rosea
Ashwaganda

Some more debatable ones:
Laxogenin
Epicatechin
Ecdysterone
Turkesterone
 
Comprehensive lists so far... But we need to know what benefits you're looking for...fat loss? Muscle building? Endurance?
 
^^^This. There's tons of natty products out there that will benefit you but it depends on your goals to determine what natty product will help you.
 
The problem with natural products is not always the product, but the user. That is not to say their aren't bunk products out there. More often than not, people expect a drastic result. Not only is a drastic result expected, but it is usually without proper diet, nutrition and substantial rest. A supplement that we put in our body goes back to the definition of the word itself.

something that completes or enhances something else when added to it.
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Without addressing the other three aspects; rest, nutrition and training, a supplement will not complete or help enhance the puzzle when the puzzle is missing one of the pieces.

Also, I would suggest researching ingredients and looking into products that contain those ingredients and contain them at proper dosages.

Some have already complied a good list, I will add to it and post some good articles/studies.

Citrulline

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Creatine

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Betaine

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Ferulic Acid

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/284442-ferulic-acid-research.html

Ashwagandha

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Forskolin

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Tongkat Ali

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I know there is a lot there, but look through some of those and look at what products contain those ingredients and make sure they are adequately dosed.

Performax Labs carries various products with those ingredients. For example, our pre workout contains citrulline and other ingredients to boost performance. PowerMax XT is an ergogenic aid to increase performance, recovery and hydration. It has creatine and betaine in additional to other beneficial ingredients. Our natural anabolic contains F95, Ashwagandha, Feurlic Acid, and Tongkat Ali just to name some ingredients.

If you go in with reasonable expectations supplements will treat you well. It is those that want to use a fat burner but have sub par nutrition and training that will complain about supplements not working.
 
jathan_howe said:
Creatine
Betaine
Beta alanine
Carnitine
Phosphatidic Acid
Arachidonic Acid
Forskolin
Creatinol-O-Phosphate
Yohimbe
Agmatine
Berberine
Na-R-Ala
Cistanche Deserticola
Anacyclus Pyrethrum
Lodhra Bark
Ephedrine
Rhodiala Rosea
Ashwaganda

Some more debatable ones:
Laxogenin
Epicatechin
Ecdysterone
Turkesterone
Click to expand...

This is a good start. To enhance and aid something else is not really saying how much of the effect you want.
 
jathan_howe said:
Your post
Click to expand...

Nice list. I'd personally move some around:

Creatine
Betaine
Beta alanine
Carnitine
Phosphatidic Acid
Arachidonic Acid
Forskolin
Yohimbe
Agmatine
Berberine
Na-R-Ala
Ephedrine
Rhodiala Rosea
Ashwaganda

Some more debatable ones:
Lodhra Bark
Anacyclus Pyrethrum
Cistanche Deserticola
Creatinol-O-Phosphate
Laxogenin
Epicatechin
Ecdysterone
Turkesterone
 
Plenty of natty ones that work, they just don't work nearly like anything non-natty unfortunately lol
 
The_Old_Guy said:
Nice list. I'd personally move some around:

Creatine
Betaine
Beta alanine
Carnitine
Phosphatidic Acid
Arachidonic Acid
Forskolin
Yohimbe
Agmatine
Berberine
Na-R-Ala
Ephedrine
Rhodiala Rosea
Ashwaganda

Some more debatable ones:
Lodhra Bark
Anacyclus Pyrethrum
Cistanche Deserticola
Creatinol-O-Phosphate
Laxogenin
Epicatechin
Ecdysterone
Turkesterone
Click to expand...
Interested to see why you placed Creatinol-O-Phosphate in the debatable section?
 
josun said:
Interested to see why you placed Creatinol-O-Phosphate in the debatable section?
Click to expand...

Nothing written in English on oral performance benefits - just some Italian titles and a 5 year old PA blog post on a product that is always 'Out of Stock'.
 
Laxogenin at 100mg every day for 8 weeks yields good results for me, I respond to laxo much better than epicatechin but epicat works great for some people. I plan on trying again with follidrone 2.0 in the future, currently using androcrine by bps and I'm enjoying it
 
Cooter Flap said:
Laxogenin at 100mg every day for 8 weeks yields good results for me, I respond to laxo much better than epicatechin but epicat works great for some people. I plan on trying again with follidrone 2.0 in the future, currently using androcrine by bps and I'm enjoying it
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laxogenin, in 8 weeks what results have you had?
Did you used to own, or with Stacks?
 
Alphamax XT and ArA both will enhance your body and your workouts if you are minding your nutrition, rest, and training.

Don't expect much if any of these 3 are off. And if they are on, don't expect to Arnold overnight on them, either
 
ArA
PA
Epi(-)
Creatine
Betaine
Protein

What specifically are you looking for
 
Serious Nutrition Solutions is the gold standard for bulk natty supplements. Most of the aforementioned products previously mentioned can be had from SNS. SNS specializes in natty bulk ingredients at a very cost effective price.
 
The two best studied are xgels (Ara) and creatine mono.

Others that have worked for many of us around here:
Cop
Epi plex
Sparta Hercules or Epicurus
 
TONS of natural things give some benefit but this is such a broad statement. For example if I drink a cup of coffee= 100% natural and I feel a boost its a benefit. Might even help me train harder and longer and feel more motivated.

I think what your asking is are there any natural substances or products that are anabolic/androgenic and or fat burning and of course yes there are many but with regards to natural substances there are alot of limitations. Ive been researching this for years and I can tell you there are dozens at least of plants that have anabolic compounds or performance enhancing compounds in them. Unfortunately these compounds are often
-hard to isolate,
-EXTREMELY expensive,
-Are rapidly metabolized or annihilated in the GI tract,
-Have other effects that make them unfavorable such as Antiandrogenic/ catabolic/ estrogenic etc etc.
I have hundreds of pages of notes regarding Anabolic, performance enhancing and fat burning plants and unfortunately its extremely hard to find new ones. We do, however, have some that are very solid with both viable research and positive reviews/logs of products containing these ingredients.

Currently at the top of my list is Ecklonia Cava.
Ecklonia Cava: EC
Muscle mass
Fat loss
Promotes AMPK
Increased Follistatin
Reduced myostatin
Reduded Activin A
ACE inhibitor
Antioxidant
Vasodilator
Cardio protective
Increased brain function
Reduced cholesterol
GLUT4 Expression


This is one of the most well studied seaweeds on earth. Millions of dollars has been spent looking at this stuff for all kinds of purposes. Its exceptional with regards to health benefits and safety. Its also exceptional with regards to its benefits to us as muscle gain and fat loss enthusiasts. Like Epicatechin EC is a strong follistatin booster and as such myostatin inhibitor. In addition to its ability to reduce myostatin it is also a very solid ACE inhibitor. Ace inhibitors are interesting to say the very least. Ace inhibitors increase insulin sensitivity and glucose uptake into muscles. Lower ACE equates to lower overall bodyfat levels, increased fat metabolism in the liver and the ability to process sugars much faster. In addition increased cell surface GLUT4 increases nutrient shuttling into muscle tissue. It has been suggested that ACE inhibitor-induced positive effects may also be mediated by direct action on the skeletal muscle. In particular, two recently published observational studies documented that among hypertensive subjects free of CHF, treatment with ACE inhibitors was associated with better performance and muscular outcomes and genetic studies also support the hypothesis that the ACE system may be involved in physical performance and skeletal muscle function. Effects on the skeletal muscle are probably mediated by mechanical, metabolic, anti-inflammatory, nutritional, neurological and angiogenetic actions. Individuals with the II genotype of the ACE gene have greater endurance and greater skeletal muscle trainability in some studies. Hypertensive patients taking ACE inhibitors have greater cross-sectional muscle mass and a slower decline in walking speed than those taking other antihypertensives in epidemiological studies. ACE inhibitors are also known to improve endothelial function, muscle glucose uptake, increase potassium levels and modulate other hormonal systems including IGF-1, all of which could contribute to improved skeletal muscle function. Finally, ACE inhibitors could of course be mediating a direct effect on skeletal muscle structure and function; they are known to have trophic effects on myocardial tissue. Finally ACE inhibitors help us with fat loss independent of food intake. This appears to be due to a high energy expenditure related to increased metabolism of fatty acids in the liver, with the additional effect of increased glucose tolerance.

EC is a strong vasodilator and helps restore and increase endothelial function. EC can regenerate the vascular endothelium, the cells critical to the inner lining of the blood vessels. They generate the chemical nitric oxide (NO), which keeps the arterial walls relaxed and dilated. After a six-week study of EC, flow mediated dilation and NO mediated dilation increased by 60% and 50%. In another study, coronary artery disease patients were given EC for six weeks. Blood flow controlled by NO increased 50-60%. These results confirm that EC can rejuvenate damaged endothelial cells to produce NO. This effect was further confirmed in a study on erectile dysfunction (see below).

Scientists studied 31 men with erectile dysfunction (ED) for over six months. They compared eight weeks of EC use to Viagra. They looked at orgasmic function (OF), intercourse satisfaction (IS), overall satisfaction (OS), and erectile function (EF). Over those eight weeks, ECE scored 87%, 74%, 62%, and 66%. Viagra scored 27%, 44%, 39%, and 66%. No side effects were reported with EC:


DGAT Inhibition
Diacylglycerol acetyl transferase (DGAT) is the enzyme involved in the final step of triglyceride synthesis. Triglycerides are circulating fat bodies that ultimately wind up in the fat cells, and are almost always elevated in diabetes. They also have emerged as a major risk factor in vascular disease.
It was found that EC compounds inhibited DGAT more than 50%. In genetically caused obese laboratory rats, EC reduced body fat and increased physical activity. In another study, EC caused leanness and fat-resistance in animals given a high fat diet.

ECE Beverage: 2-Week Clinical Trial
In a human study, 141 young adults were given a beverage containing ECE at 200 mg daily. In two weeks their average weight dropped nearly 2.5 pounds, muscle mass increased by nearly 2.5 pounds, and body fat dropped by 4 pounds, or 7.48%. EC stimulates the body to burn fat by increasing muscle mass.

Frankly I dont know of too many things that have the potential of Ecklonia cava. Great for building muscle and losing fat, Vasodilation and a host of health benefits round this ingredient out and make it in my opinion the star of the show and I believe an even stronger ingredient than epicatechin.

The strongest Ecklonia cava extract I know of is found only in FOLLIDRONE 2.0 http://anabolicminds.com/forum/black-lion-research/279849-follidrone-2-0-a.html I believe there is a sale currently at TGBsupplements vujade
This combines ecklonia cava, epicatechin with absorption package, Flos carthami, quercetin niacin co crystals.
Follidrone 2.0 is for sure a solid natural anabolic and one of the best fat burners I have ever used. Currently its my honest assessment that this is the strongest natural anabolic product available.

There is some good news on the horizon. I have a 3x ingredient natural anabolic currently in testing phase. 2 of the ingredients I have never used before so I dont know how well they will work orally at the doses we expect them to be active at. I do expect some significant anabolic effects though so hopefully we will have another new natty anabolic shortly.

Aside from novel ingredients there are of course the good old standbys like creatine which does have benefit for many.
 
I've tried most mentioned here (not Follidrone 2 yet, although I already bought it) and the one I am most satisfied with is HMB. It is cheap in bulk, it is the best by far in recovery, is anti catabolic and the research is solid.
 
If I could only get one supp, it would Folidrone 2. I have tried everything listed many times and in many combinations. Don't waste your time. I am not rep btw..
 
bigsmall said:
If I could only get one supp, it would Folidrone 2. I have tried everything listed many times and in many combinations. Don't waste your time. I am not rep btw..
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i never noticed anything really from epi()
im reluctant to pay how much for folli 2? maybe if its on some kind of great sale i will reconsider
 
ericool007 said:
i never noticed anything really from epi()
im reluctant to pay how much for folli 2? maybe if its on some kind of great sale i will reconsider
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Follidrone 2.0 is not just epi. If you removed the epi from the mix it would still be stronger than Follidrone 1.
Aside from the epicatechin there are 3 other actives each of which was tested by itself and works well by itself. Combined it makes a wicked combo.
Fat loss (for most even in caloric surplus).
Muscle growth.
Pump
Endurance
strength
plus a host of health benefits.

All of this without the epi. But of course there is epi and a strong absorption package. This absorption package may help you respond better to the epicatechin as some people seem to absorb it better than others or at least that is the prevailing theory as to why some respond so well and some not so much.

Follidrone 2.0 is a whole new beast. Its not even a close comparison to any epicatechin product because...its not just an epicatechin product.
 
brundel said:
Follidrone 2.0 is not just epi. If you removed the epi from the mix it would still be stronger than Follidrone 1.
Aside from the epicatechin there are 3 other actives each of which was tested by itself and works well by itself. Combined it makes a wicked combo.
Fat loss (for most even in caloric surplus).
Muscle growth.
Pump
Endurance
strength
plus a host of health benefits.

All of this without the epi. But of course there is epi and a strong absorption package. This absorption package may help you respond better to the epicatechin as some people seem to absorb it better than others or at least that is the prevailing theory as to why some respond so well and some not so much.

Follidrone 2.0 is a whole new beast. Its not even a close comparison to any epicatechin product because...its not just an epicatechin product.
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It has become my favorite product!
already ordered again! I look forward to!
But I'll use only, with no stack, so it works great !!!
It does not need any other product!
You are in bulk?
so much food, creatine, vitamin d3, enzymes (in heavy meals), follidrone2.0 = Results!
You are in cut?
less food (moderate carbohydrate, cycling), creatine, incinderine2 (when it comes out ????) (or Shift + ignit3), green tea, caffeine, forskolin, follidrone2.0 = Results!

ciao ciao
brundel
 
Folidrone 2.0 is doing so well, let's see who is first to copy it. The supp industry seems all about who can copy the next BLR product first these days. Thank you brundel for your contribution to the athletic performance minded community and for all the people you feed (employ) at your's and the other supp companies who copy your products.
 
bigsmall said:
Folidrone 2.0 is doing so well, let's see who is first to copy it. The supp industry seems all about who can copy the next BLR product first these days. Thank you brundel for your contribution to the athletic performance minded community and for all the people you feed (employ) at your's and the other supp companies who copy your products.
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Thanks man. I appreciate this.
 
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