HRT+Olympus Labs+ Letrone+OTHERS!

[thu_hobbit]

Haha it always happens like that when you really wanna get somehing done. Good luck tomorrow man. Im sure they have un****** themselves now

 

[chedapalooza]

Ok blood is drawn. Now we wait!

 

[brundel]

Ok blood is drawn. Now we wait!

Im excited to see the results. This will be the 4th public letrone labs. Someone just posted some in the labs section. Im curious to see where your e2 is if test is over 1000. Now we patiently wait.

 

[chedapalooza]

Ok here's the results

I'm not happy that test hasn't moved much AND the negative feedback has set in RE LH/FSH

I wasn't expecting this. I'm not sure where to go from here in terms of the clomid. I am at 12.5mg eod. I guess I will taper at this point and be happy with the success in raising T.

That being said-- only 2 point drop in e2 with no further test increase over a full 31 day period.

 

[Cjg]

Man that's the second one where test didn't budge...

 

[gagandugan]

Very minor changes there.

 

[thu_hobbit]

is there a thread somewhere where i can learn how to read the bloods? i would like to learn

 

[chedapalooza]

Forcing myself to increase cals from carbs today. Planning to land 80-85g cho up from a consistent 30-50. Basically adding in a quest bar so mostly all fiber carbs.

 

[Joedoubledose]

Slow and steady!

 

[ELROCK]

Surprised your e2 only dropped 2 points. Mine dropped just over 10 points @ only 1 cap ED and I had lower baseline e2 numbers. I did run it for 60 days straight though. I still think your Testosterone levels look good, but of course >800 would be ideal. How do you feel? Do you feel good? When I was on TRT my TT would sit around 700 and my e2 around 20 and I felt great there.

 

[chedapalooza]

Surprised your e2 only dropped 2 points. Mine dropped just over 10 points @ only 1 cap ED and I had lower baseline e2 numbers. I did run it for 60 days straight though. I still think your Testosterone levels look good, but of course >800 would be ideal. How do you feel? Do you feel good? When I was on TRT my TT would sit around 700 and my e2 around 20 and I felt great there.

I feel like crap usually but this is probably from poor total calorie intake

 

[chedapalooza]

Slow and steady!

Yea I readjusted my daily plan today and i will top out at 70g cho. I think going from 30 to 80 all at once is asking for some issues maybe

 

[warpyfunch]

so the takeaway here is that letrone didn't have much of an effect for you?

 

[kboxer7]

so the takeaway here is that letrone didn't have much of an effect for you?

Would seem that way.

 

[GreekTheBrick]

I feel like crap usually but this is probably from poor total calorie intake

You shouldnt feel that way bro, I have much less than half of your test and I feel good. I trust that you will feel much better if upping calories

 

[chedapalooza]

Well the good news for the log is that Antaeus is sending me some of their stand alone BAIBA to throw in here.

I'll post an updated list of supps. I'm looking forward to this in conjunction with the increase in cals. I'll also start posting workouts and macros as often as possible if not daily initially to get some feedback from all of you. Thinking it may be time for some progress pics as well. I have dialed back the intensity and volume for the last month (planned) and been off from training this whole week to gear up for a solid recomp push through to New Years.

New plan will have me lifting 4-5 days a week with hiit and weighted carries/sled/rower mixing it up for cardio. Emphasis as always on constructing that v taper wide shoulders and lats plus small waist.

Currently 157-160 and not as much concerned with the scale number at all as much as the mirror. Looking forward to jacking up the volume and intensity and feeling and looking strong again.

 

[GreekTheBrick]

Well the good news for the log is that anateus is sending me some of their stand alone BAIBA to throw in here.

I'll post an updated list of supps. I'm looking forward to this in conjunction with the increase in cals. I'll also start posting workouts and macros as often as possible if not daily initially to get some feedback from all of you. Thinking it may be time for some progress pics as well. I have dialed back the intensity and volume for the last month (planned) and been off from training this whole week to gear up for a solid recomp push through to New Years.

New plan will have me lifting 4-5 days a week with hiit and weighted carries/sled/rower mixing it up for cardio. Emphasis as always on constructing that v taper wide shoulders and lats plus small waist.

Currently 157-160 and not as much concerned with the scale number at all as much as the mirror. Looking forward to jacking up the volume and intensity and feeling and looking strong again.

That's a strong attitude

 

[chedapalooza]

Supps as of October 2,2015
Staples not included

Clomid tapering
EC
Shift
BAIBA (in the mail)
ABE
Ep1c unleashed caps
LJ100
hydro3/conqu3r DGE
Powerfull at bed

**may throw in 25mg el1ninate as part of the clomid taper

 

[Cjg]

So u done with Letrone or going to continue?

 

[chedapalooza]

Slowly reducing the caps from 3 to none and coming off. So dropped to two today.

 

[ucheoma]

so the takeaway here is that letrone didn't have much of an effect for you?

One or two other supplements on the original list dont seem to be having much of an effect as well

 

[Cjg]

I know Letrone suppose to be stronger than Exotherm but.. But Exotherm worked way better for me!! Everybody's different I guess...

 

[chedapalooza]

One or two other supplements on the original list dont seem to be having much of an effect as well

Which would you be referring to? Maybe I can clear up something for you

 

[ucheoma]

Which would you be referring to? Maybe I can clear up something for you

Ol lj 100, ol eliminate, anabeta og, as forskolin. I refer to your post of 3 august

 

[chedapalooza]

What would make you say those aren't effective from the blood work I posted? We didn't test for free test, but when I did back in July to August, LJ dropped my Shbg by 7 or 8 points which means a pretty fair increase in free test..... So we know LJ works 100%

Eliminate is for cortisol, not estrogen as many believed in the past... And my coritsol on another test was 16 which is very good ESPECIALLY considering my circumstances

Forskolin and anabeta.... Not sure what you'd look for in bloods besides thyroid and LH, thyroid wasn't tested here and LH went down bc of negative feedback from the clomid.

 

[ucheoma]

So , the Olympus Labs ad on their own website is wrong? Their website clearly categorises Eliminate as an anti-estrogen. Extract from their ad says: ELIM1NATE – the most versatile anti-estrogen up to date!! As far as I can see you never directly tested for Free Test. You seem to be implying LJ100 must have increased your free test due to the drop in SHBG. Forskolin is cited as a test booster (among it's other properties) along with Anacyclus pyrethrum , although I accept Anabeta is not marketed as a test booster

What would make you say those aren't effective from the blood work I posted? We didn't test for free test, but when I did back in July to August, LJ dropped my Shbg by 7 or 8 points which means a pretty fair increase in free test..... So we know LJ works 100%

Eliminate is for cortisol, not estrogen as many believed in the past... And my coritsol on another test was 16 which is very good ESPECIALLY considering my circumstances

Forskolin and anabeta.... Not sure what you'd look for in bloods besides thyroid and LH, thyroid wasn't tested here and LH went down bc of negative feedback from the clomid.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

So , the Olympus Labs ad on their own website is wrong? Their website clearly categorises Eliminate as an anti-estrogen. Extract from their ad says: ELIM1NATE – the most versatile anti-estrogen up to date!! As far as I can see you never directly tested for Free Test. You seem to be implying LJ100 must have increased your free test due to the drop in SHBG. Forskolin is cited as a test booster (among it's other properties) along with Anacyclus pyrethrum , although I accept Anabeta is not marketed as a test booster

Dude you and the rest of the AM community know when multiple supps are simultaneously used that any blood work should be taken with a grain of salt. No need to drag company advertising into this. Nomsayn'?

 

[ucheoma]

My point precisely! I don't understand how one single supplement can be objectively isolated as not working out of a laundry list of multiple supps.

Dude you and the rest of the AM community know when multiple supps are simultaneously used that any blood work should be taken with a grain of salt. No need to drag company advertising into this. Nomsayn'?

 

[chedapalooza]

My point precisely! I don't understand how one single supplement can be objectively isolated as not working out of a laundry list of multiple supps.

Because my estrogen didn't drop. Pretty simple man. I don't understand why you're coming in here arguing with results on paper..... It's kind of pointless to do. If said product did what it was supposed to, estrogen would have lowered. Not sure what your agenda is but mine is simple and unbiased and backed by blood work. Can't get much more straight forward than that. I'm not going to turn this thread into a pissing contest or debate over semantics

 

[chedapalooza]

Breaking the 70g cho mark today

Ignore the goals I didn't update them before this

Carb sources are quest bar, wheat germ, Greek yogurt, vegetables(not counted), PB2, quest PB cups

Hit a high volume shoulder workout with low volume traps and tris. Did some weighted carries at the end as well as 15 minutes of intervals on the stairs and bike. Hitting back and bis tomorrow no cardio

 

[GreekTheBrick]

How s your mood?

 

[chedapalooza]

How s your mood?

Like a 7 on a scale of 1-10, ten being feeling like Buddha. Pretty good most the time. The only things that bug me is my insomnia and chronic aches and pains in my shoulder and glutes/hips. I think once I get my nutrition consistently improved, those two areas will be much better. I was able to feel pretty relaxed and fall asleep rather easily last night, but I woke up quite a few times feeling extremely restless and anxious.

 

[GreekTheBrick]

Like a 7 on a scale of 1-10, ten being feeling like Buddha. Pretty good most the time. The only things that bug me is my insomnia and chronic aches and pains in my shoulder and glutes/hips. I think once I get my nutrition consistently improved, those two areas will be much better. I was able to feel pretty relaxed and fall asleep rather easily last night, but I woke up quite a few times feeling extremely restless and anxious.

Thats great, nutrition will help a lot but in the meantime you should figure what is the external factor that is causing the anxiety and reduce it. You will feel brand new

 

[chedapalooza]

I think it's been purely related to my rigid dieting as its been affecting my social life and overall energy/mood. Work is good, found a good girl getting serious with... Just need to get this shtuff in order and I'll be A ok

 

[chedapalooza]

Yesterday's workout
DB shoulder press 15, 12,10,10,5,5

DB laterals
Superset 15,12,10,10
BB upright rows

One arm DB press neutral grip 12,12

BTB smith machine shrugs
Superset 3x15
DB shrugs

Paused close grip bench 3x5 (3-5 second pause at bottom+explosive eccentric)

Donkey calves
Superset 3x20
Body weight standing calves

Weighted carries 5 mins various+stairs and bike HIIT for 15 mins

 

[chedapalooza]

Today's work out will be
Pull-ups 2 sets of max bodyweight with each grip (over, under, neutral)
Bentover smith row 12,10, 8, 6, 6
Rack deads 6,6,6,6--this is new for me bc of injury I haven't done much deadlifting--want to start building my spinal erectors back
Standing v handle row 12,10, 10, 8
Half kneeling 1 arm lat pull neutral grip 12,10,8
Pullovers 12,10,8
Pulldowns to rear 3x15-20
seated good morning 3x8-10
Ez bb curl 10,8,8
Preacher hammer curl 10,10,8
Seated alt db curl 10,10,8
Hypers 4x12

Will probably sandwich it with some incline walking to warmup and then get a little fat burn after the workout. Not HIIT. Tomorrow is a planned off day.

very similar food selection and macros as yesterday

 

[chedapalooza]

Oh the doms! It feels so good, especially on a rest day. First two lifts back after a planned off week and I really feel it in a good way. I'm officially back on the carb bandwagon and this reverse diet will be proceeding--finally. Gonna hang out at 50g cho off days this week and 70-75g cho training days. I'll look to enter 100g cho on training days by the end of the month. Energy and mood has Been stable since further reducing the clomid and also back down to two letrone. Dropping to 1 letrone tomorrow and will close out the week. Body comp slightly improving as well most likely due to the increase in carbs and fiber helping things out.

 

[chedapalooza]

Also worth noting, my mid back feels soo solid after rack deads and seated good mornings. Finished up with reverse hypers on a bench and supermans on the floor and some leg curls. I really need to get my posterior chain strength back WITH PROPER FORM. I am a little over one year removed from partially tearing my psoas and straining ligaments in my left hip which caused severe nerve entrapment and a shifted / rotated pelvis. I've learned a lot about mobility and core strength, glutes activation, and proper form for squat and dead since the injury. Kept it slow and steady and hoping I can continue to rehab back to a respectable level of strength here

 

[brundel]

Its hard to imagine all the products on this list
PLus clomid and letrone and there was basically no change in test or estrogen. I agree. Either something is up or many of these products are failing to work. LJ, eliminate, letrone, clomid forskolin should all raise test levels. And Letrone should lower estro levels. Has in 100% of other tests run.
So Im not sure whats going on. My thought is your system needs a break. All of these products pulling and pushing for long periods. Your body will seek homeostasis and potentially stop responding. I think this is likely whats happening. Your numbers are ok currently. Id drop all hormonal products for a couple of months. Then retest. If your unhappy then possibly restart. For now it looks like your not responding to anything. estrogen didnt drop but....test didnt budge either and your on clomid and lj and forskolin. So basically nothing is working.

L LJ100
Anabeta original
AS cistamax,
Ursobolic 12 caps daily,
OL elim1nate 1 cap daily
OL Ep1c Unleashed
AS Forskolin 50mg
PES shift
Original usp c20
EC (2 x daily)
OL conqu3r DGE pre workout
I force KNO3
2 caps USP powerfull at bed
AP for fasted training

 

[Cjg]

I remember a guy that use to study supplements and the way they work. Saying stacking too many things at once can actually cancel one another out depending on how they work.

 

[chedapalooza]

I remember a guy that use to study supplements and the way they work. Saying stacking too many things at once can actually cancel one another out depending on how they work.

Its hard to imagine all the products on this list
PLus clomid and letrone and there was basically no change in test or estrogen. I agree. Either something is up or many of these products are failing to work. LJ, eliminate, letrone, clomid forskolin should all raise test levels. And Letrone should lower estro levels. Has in 100% of other tests run.
So Im not sure whats going on. My thought is your system needs a break. All of these products pulling and pushing for long periods. Your body will seek homeostasis and potentially stop responding. I think this is likely whats happening. Your numbers are ok currently. Id drop all hormonal products for a couple of months. Then retest. If your unhappy then possibly restart. For now it looks like your not responding to anything. estrogen didnt drop but....test didnt budge either and your on clomid and lj and forskolin. So basically nothing is working.

All valid points and have decided to do such and reassess in a modest time frame. Just gonna focus on basics and body comp while working this reverse diet. Adding in the BAIBA from Antaeus when it arrives but that's obviously non hormonal. Gonna roll with very few non hormonal and staples supps for a while

 

[chedapalooza]

Well I got home to a nice surprise! Which is great bc today was an off day so I get to jump right in with a full 1g with my final meal of the day. I will be dosing 500mg on training days (with last meal of day) and 1g on off days (either with last meal or split among two meals--most likely the latter)

Thank you to henryv for letting me throw this into my log as I move away from the hormonals for the time being!

Tiny tub; no scooper included so luckily I have a 1/4 tsp measure to get the full 1g!!

From the company website::

Antaeus Labs Modular Series βAIBA is a dietary supplement containing β-aminoisobutyric acid.

When you exercise, benefits of that exercise are seen in many different organs of the body, not just the muscles that were exercised. These metabolic benefits are the result of "messenger" molecules that are released into the blood stream and travel to other tissues where the benefits of exercise are realised. One such messenger molecule, or "myokine", is understood to be the amino acid beta-aminoisobutyric acid.
BAIBA is an amino acid that your body produces in response to exercise. After being released into the blood stream, it starts a thermogenic program in fat tissue, raising energy expenditure and reducing weight gain when tested in mice. When mouse or human white fat cells are exposed to BAIBA, some of them become fat-burning "beige" fat cells. Beige (or BRITE) fat cells contain the protein UCP-1 - also known as "thermogenin" because it burns triglycerides to produce heat.

- BAIBA is produced naturally by the human body – it’s formed from the catabolism of thymine [1][2] and is also product of exercise-induced PGC1a-mediated amino acid breakdown. [3]
- BAIBA increases the utilization of free fatty acids and decreases fat mass in mice. [4]
- BAIBA stimulates the differentiation of white fat cells into thermogenic beige/brite fat cells in both in vivo animal experiments and in vitro human stem cell studies. [5][6]
Antaeus Labs Modular Series βAIBA contains just the amino acid BAIBA, in powder form for easy dosing. It's tasteless and odorless, and mixes well with a soft drink or protein shake. It is suitable for both men and women.

Studies suggest BAIBA may:
- Increase lipolysis and the beta-oxidation of fatty acids (“fat burning”)
- Increase body temperature and energy expenditure
- Increase ketogenesis (the production of ketone bodies in the liver)
βAIBA is suited for use by:
- those trying to lose weight, in combination with a healthy diet and exercise regime
- those trying to reap the maximal metabolic benefits from their exercise regime
- those who may be temporarily unable to exercise through injury or illness

1. β-Aminoisobutyric Acid, a New Probe for the Metabolism of DNA and RNA in Normal and Tumorous Tissue. Cancer Res 34, 1381–1384.
2. The excretion of beta-aminoisobutyric acid following thymine and dihydrothymine administration to man. Aust J Exp Biol Med Sci 39, 423–427.
3. PGC-1α-Mediated Branched-Chain Amino Acid Metabolism in the Skeletal Muscle. PLoS ONE 9, e91006.
4. Effects of zidovudine, stavudine and beta-aminoisobutyric acid on lipid homeostasis in mice: possible role in human fat wasting. Antivir. Ther. (Lond.) 9, 801–810.
5. β-Aminoisobutyric Acid Induces Browning of White Fat and Hepatic β-Oxidation and Is Inversely Correlated with Cardiometabolic Risk Factors. Cell Metabolism 19, 96–108.
6. Come on BAIBA Light My Fire. Cell Metabolism 19, 1–2.

Thank you Antaeus labs for this opportunity

 

[chedapalooza]

Initial comments on BAIBA

Took 1g with aminos roughly ten minutes before I started eating my last meal.. After only a few bites of food I started feeling slightly tingly beneath the skin in face and arms-- not akin to beta alanine tingles but just very subtle tingles. Face has grown warmer and warmer every minute or so (not in a bad way just noticeable) it is not flushed tho.

 

[CJNator]

I've heard about this a while ago, extremely interested how this will go! Also would this need to be cycled? I'd like to say no but I'm not sure.

 

[chedapalooza]

I've heard about this a while ago, extremely interested how this will go! Also would this need to be cycled? I'd like to say no but I'm not sure.

I'm not sure but probably 8-12 weeks on/4 off? Goal dependent ... Not sure. Maybe someone from Antaeus can chime in or I'll dig into it myself soon

 

[henryv]

I'm not sure but probably 8-12 weeks on/4 off?

That sounds fine. It's the kind of thing that probably works better over the course of a few months rather than a few weeks - and may keep working after you finish taking it. The idea is that some fat cells are remodelled into thermogenic beige (/brite) cells that increase body temp/energy expenditure (see: wiki), a process that isn't instant but should be cumulative and fairly long-lasting.

 

[chedapalooza]

Looking forward to this workout tonight
https://www.t-nation.com/training/boy-you-gotta-carry-that-weight

Weighted carry circuit and I'm going to warmup with the bike then do some intervals on the bike following the circuit... Also throw in some mobility, glute activation, and core work.

Yesterday was off so carbs were at 40g today is a "burn day" so will be at 50g. I'm taking this slow since I am eliminating a lot of the supps I've been on, I don't wanna change everything at once and go crazy adding carbs at too fast a rate.

 

[chedapalooza]

Workout was great... Pre workout body weight came in at 162 fasted. Water from the carbs and some lean gains. Up 5 pounds in 10 days. ?

 

[chedapalooza]

I have one interesting observation im seeing with the BAIBA but I'm gonna give it another day or two before stating for sure

 

[kboxer7]

I have one interesting observation im seeing with the BAIBA but I'm gonna give it another day or two before stating for sure

Cool. I'm interested to see what it is. I'm thinking about some BAIBA for my bulk