How to "pulse" orals

Dr.D its great to see you are still looking at this thread and if there is any advice you can give me too that would be magic! I think you can see what I'm getting at here - basically as long a cycle as possible without needing PCT with switching products if need be. I'd rather spend a bit extra on keeping it as safe as possible and don't mind losing a % of gains if it means gaining a bigger % of safety. Thanks again.
 
For the most part its just that at that point you will have been on hyperdrol x2 for 12 weeks already, and that seems a bit long for it. you might be best off doing all 8 weeks of the pulse together, using hdx2 for off days, then a month of hdx2/massfx together at the end.
 
I see your angle now Easy. Thanks for that. I will probably go for the 12 week option. I understand 12 weeks of Hyperdrol is the limit so thats what I will stick to (even though during weeks 1-4 and 9-12 it will be HD for 4 days a week instead of 7 and maybe even at a lower dose) - either that or I can drop the 6-bromo on OFF days and stick to 2 solid 4 week phases of it.

One question still sticks in my mind though. Will my body be in a balanced state after this or will I need to recover in some shape or form with nolvadex or suchlike? I used Nolva before after a 5 week cycle of Havoc but I do realise the pulsing method (especially the 4 week one) requires no PCT so just checking what would be the case for this 12 or 16 week version. This may be a silly question but could this cycle keep continuing or would you need to left your system adjust. I'm guessing time off is needed but the question is how long between cycles? I suppose theres many options available here. I think 12 weeks is long enough with maybe 4-8 weeks to recover then to go again. I'm just guessing though so any advice is much appreciated. Seriously guys I really appreciate your time and if I can help by getting a log or before and after pictures then let me know. Theres going to be 3 of us doing this plan over the 3 months so hopefully some good gains to be had and reported upon.
 
Ah cheers matey this is what I was worried about. I was really trying to get at how badly a cycle like this affects you and what to do to recover form it. 12 weeks is a longish time to recover but if that's what it takes then of course I will stick to it. I'm also mindful that if it will take that long for the balls to get back to normal, then perhaps a PCT would help after all.

Basically the thing that really intrigued me about pulsing was that no PCT was needed. Let's look at a basic 4 week pulse of Havoc - no pct required - so how long realistically would you leave it until you went on the havoc again? I also realise that using the same product again and again will lower its effectiveness.

This is all helping me gain an understanding so much appreciated and sorry if I'm asking too many questions; the more I learn, the more questions occur to me :)

Can I just finish by saying I was chatting to a guy in my gym the other day and he is on the juice (didn't get chance to find out what exactly) and he says he is on for 6 weeks then off for 4 then back on again. After the reading I had done on here I was horrified to hear this. He is the kind of guy that doesn't like advice but surely to God he is doing himself no favours whatsoever. Is there any way that he is not harming himself by doing this? I feel like saying something to him but then again he probably wouldn't appreciate it.
 
Anyone else got any views on this besides Easy? Loving your contribution Easy but always good to hear from several people.

Was doing a lot more thinking about it today and was wondering is it better with the bidge or without? I mean How 4 week pulse of Havoc following by 8 weeks HDX2 + Mass FX then 6 weeks break then repeat? Or is the bridge a more effective method? Still considering your suggestion earlier too, Easy. They all look effective but one must be the most effective. I would like to repeat the cycle shortly after finishing the first one but only if its safe to do so - so I'm taking that into account too.

The thing I'm unsure about is will I lose muscle mass from unbalanced hormone levels after any of these cycles? I know that low natural test and quick gains = quick losses if not managed correctly so would like to keep my natural test levels reasonably high/normal in the weeks following a cycle and ideally higher in the long term if at all possible.
 
Just been reading up on the asteroid stack (prime, anabolic pump and powerfull) it says it doesn't cause shutdown and that the gains are big. In comparison are the gains anywhere near what I would get on the above stack? They make it out to be just as effective if not more so and say there are no sides. Sounds too good to be true! With things that sound too good to be true, they usually are. Right?

Don't want to change the point of the thread though I just can't see why people would mess with something like havoc if the gains were less or equal to something much safer like this stack... allegedly.

My best bet is probably to make a new thread finding the most effective safest stack but in the mean time if anyone can answer the questions from before I will be much obliged.
 
captaincrunch said:
Dr.D its great to see you are still looking at this thread and if there is any advice you can give me too that would be magic! I think you can see what I'm getting at here - basically as long a cycle as possible without needing PCT with switching products if need be. I'd rather spend a bit extra on keeping it as safe as possible and don't mind losing a % of gains if it means gaining a bigger % of safety. Thanks again.
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Yes, I'm still here! Just get busy at times so thank you in advance to forgive my absence. It can be profitable to switch about every month, seems to renew benefits no doubt. When pulsing, it can still be helpful but generally isn't as necessary (it doesn't hurt though.) I think you have the right idea and EZ has given you good advice.
 
Thanks Dr.D I'm looking forward to trying your methods out. I guess the extra queries were to try and squeeze out a bit more from my cycles. I will keep doing my reading and report back with how I get on.


Has anyone had good success combining different cycles that work well together? Seems that pulsing Havoc leaves the way open for this kind of thing when you think there is no need for a PCT.
 
I've toyed with all sorts of variations :D but what I tended to do was 2 week pulse, 3-4 weeks off (or just using natural supplements) and then 2 week pulse again. so kept them very short, but used some original superdrol so still had noticeable results.
 
Sounds good. Shorter pulses are more efficient then? I was toying with the idea of extending the 4 week pulse to 6 and then immediately using an 8 week stack of MassFX/HDX2 then stopping for at least a month. Thinking of trying the Asteroid stack after that and by the time thats over it will be time again for more Havoc or maybe something slightly different as I don't want to become accustomed to it. I hear people talking of Superdrol as being very effective I could look into that next.
 
I dunno about more efficient as the gains are lower, but it allows for some gains with minimal side effects and lets you begin to get the feel of a new compound
 
Sorry what I meant by efficient is that those 2 weeks would be maybe more effective than the latter weeks in a longer cycle. The benefit of course is that you can go again pretty soon after also.

I have almost fully made my mind up on what I'm going to do. Think I will start in 2 days time on Havoc pulse of 20mg for first day (10mg before and 10 after workout) then ramping it up to 30 and 40 in week 2. I can't wait to see just how effective it is going to be! I will have 4 weeks to decide if I'm going to do a 5th and 6th week and also what stack to use and for how long but it is looking like Mass FX and HDX2 for 4 weeks minimum. Thanks for all the advice guys I will drop in and let you know how its going. In the mean time if there is any more advice you can give me then I will be back checking regularly for more info. Thanks again!
 
captaincrunch said:
I have almost fully made my mind up on what I'm going to do. Think I will start in 2 days time on Havoc pulse of 20mg for first day (10mg before and 10 after workout) then ramping it up to 30 and 40 in week 2.
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Duuuuuude! Don't take any Havoc after your workout. Start by taking 20mg all at once about an hour and a half before your workout. Only dose once a day, and make sure that your dose is at least 6 hours before bedtime. Consider dosing 3 times a week, with 4 days off per week (I dosed on Mon, Wed, Fri / I took Tue, Thur, Sat, Sun off from Havoc / I still went to the gym 6 times per week). You can increase your dose to 30mg with that setup.

Also, use your Mass FX and other "PCT" supplements DURING the pulse... Not after. This recomendation will be effective if you choose to try the 3 on 4 off routine listed above.
 
This is a new way of doing things from what I read before. I thought you were supposed to take before and after with a 3 hour gap. Yes I will be dosing 3 times per week. I'm thinking Sat (chest and bis), Monday (back and tris) and Wed (shoulders and legs). I didn't think Mass FX was a PCT supplement but I can see the benefits of Hyperdrol on cycle. I was going by what was said earlier in the thread but if this method is better (dosing once a day and using Mass FX at the same time) then I will go with whats best. What do others think?
 
The idea of a pulse is to minimize suppression to the testes and endocrine system. Taking your Havoc all at once will allow you to take a larger dose, while giving your body more 'off time' to try and reach homeostasis. When you take multiple doses, the body gets used to the outside source and your testosterone production will get more suppressed than if you dose only once a day. Since the goal here is to minimize suppression and side effects, it would be wise to dose only once and use a larger more effective dose. The Mass FX will help in the prevention of suppression, use it during your pulse. Havoc doesn't have any estrogenic properties, so the use of Hyperdrol during the pulse may be overkill. Save the Hyperdrol for after the pulse.
 
OK that makes sense but its the first time I have heard it. Lets say I want to take 40mg per day once I have ramped up. Won't 40mg all at once be too much to take at once or are you suggesting to keep the doses low? I was going to do 20mg 90 mins b4 training and 20mg with my workout shake and protein bar (by the way will this be harsh on my stomach without a full meal?) which still keeps suppresion low but I can fully see the beenfit of only dosing once before training. I'd like to know has anyone else tried this or agrees with the benefits?

As for the 4-8 weeks after, are you suggesting hyperdrol on its own? Or continue with Mass FX? Looks like I'm going to have to have a rethink and I'm due to start tomorrow.
 
So Easy, would you say a single dose is the way to go? How about the Mass FX during the initial 4 weeks? Would like to get started tomorrow but won't do it unless I'm pretty sure I know enough about what I'm doing and that its the best way. Cheers.
 
with epi, its a 50/50 thing. You may feel better splitting it. Epi gives a bit of a strength boost, so it is nice to take it all at once.
 
I am currently pulsing CEL H Drol. I started Monday. My pulse schedule is like this:

Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday I take 50mg. I don't use any on Wednesday, Saturday or Sunday. I take 25mg at 8:30 am and the other at about 4:30 pm and getto the gym about 5:20 or so. Should I take it all pre workout and not split it like I do?

I am also thinking of upping to 75mg on my on days next week. Only wondering when is the best time to take my dosages.
 
Well guys today was my first day of Havoc and I must say I feel like an animal. I only took 10mg before training and 10mg after but it has certainly changed me and I am getting pumps in my arms that I wouldn't normally get. I could really feel the aggression and determination in the gym and my mood is almost euphoric. This stuff makes me feel amazing. Can't wait for Monday for my next session. As for lifts - no improvement but I wasn't expecting any on the first week.

I know there is no need for a PCT on this pulse but I couldn't help thinking that a short one would have its benefits. Will probably not use the Nolva though tbh.
 
Hey all, first-time poster here, so hopefully I can dodge some flaming...

I've been training consistently for the past 8 years, never got into the PH/DS arena, stuck with the basics like protein supplements, EAA's, BCAA's, CEE, etc. however I do feel that I'm at the point that I'm willing to use a PH in an EDUCATED fashion, hence why I am on these forums before I do something stupid. I have been looking around, reading on ways to dose, stack, etc. and this "pulse" method seems very interesting. The consensus I've seen suggests a milder PH such as H-Drol for first-timers, with a typical dose of 50/50/50/50/75/75 followed by some sort of OTC PCT (i.e. Reversitol and PCS).

I apologize if this question has already been addressed, but what would be a decent way to "pulse" this PH? I was thinking of doing a 4x/week pulse, seeing as how I train 4x/week, though I am not sure if those 2 concepts are even related (pulsing split vs. training split?). So what could the hypothetical "pulse" dosage be? Although according to Dr. D, PCT is typically not required for pulsing (hence why it is such an attractive means of dosing), would I need any support supplements during this cycle (i.e. AI on "off" days, MFX post cycle)? Or is H-Drol a "mild" enough PH that no extra precautions need to be taken? I realize that everyone responds to PH's differently and there is no "set in stone" method for doing this, I'd just like to get an idea of things that I may have not considered or oversimplified in my readings. Thanks and hopefully I didn't make too much of a fool of myself in the process LOL :laugh:
 
bassgod272 said:
H-Drol isn't a good compound to pulse IMO. You would need to pulse it for about 8 weeks to see the desired results. For your first cycle, that's probably going to be too long. I think you should just run the H-Drol everyday at the doses you mentioned above. Do an OTC PCT because it is mild enough. Primordial Performance's Dermacrine Sustain is a top notch product for an OTC PCT.
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Thanks Bass, do you advise, in general, to avoid performing a "pulse" dosing of a PH for a first-timer?? Or is there a better option for a first-timer interesting in pulsing??
 
MiketheAnimal said:
Thanks Bass, do you advise, in general, to avoid performing a "pulse" dosing of a PH for a first-timer?? Or is there a better option for a first-timer interesting in pulsing??
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One of the weakest compounds with few side effects is havoc or epistane. It works well in a pulse. This doesn't mean it's safe. There are still risks. Do lots of research and read peoples experiences with the compunds you decide to try out. Never trust a sales rep (unless they are on anabolicminds.com), RESEARCH! Remember that everyone is different, and that what may work well for others may not work well for you. Everyone responds differently to each supplement... Listen to your body.

Story time: I called a 1800 number for a supplement company and asked for the best thing to build muscle. The guy told me this product was completely safe and would help me gain around 15-20 pounds. It didn't cost too much so I ordered it. While the package was in transit, I did my research. The product contained superdrol, phera plex, and one other harsh compound. That product is not safe, especially without proper pct... I rejected the package for a full refund.

Aaaaand, that's how I got started on anabolicminds.com :burnout:
 
MiketheAnimal said:
Thanks Bass, do you advise, in general, to avoid performing a "pulse" dosing of a PH for a first-timer?? Or is there a better option for a first-timer interesting in pulsing??
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pulsing is ok for a first timer. Really epsitane/havoc and superdrol are your 2 best suited for a pulse compounds. m1,4add also works well. outside of that, most of what is available today legally isn't too hot. The ONE might be ok for a pulse, nobody has tried yet :)
 
Mike you are searching for information like me and you are doing the right thing asking asking and asking again because there is so much to learn to be safe. I cannot stress that enough. I know I'm probably repeating what was said but Hyperdrol is safe enough to use as directed on the bottle without a PCT (by this I mean a serious PCT involving the likes of nolva). Havoc on the other hand is not and I believe that is what you are best pulsing to begin with. I'm doing it right now and it is going great. Theres a few things I'm not 100% about but I know so much more than before I discovered this website that I am real grateful to all those who contribute so I will do the same with what knowledge I have managed to collect. From what I have read there is no need for a PCT with a 3 day/week pulse of Havoc but I'm just erring on the side of caution as the name of the game is getting big whilst staying healthy and I don't want one without the other! Of course if you want to go with H-drol try it for 4 weeks and see how you like it. You can always use it again and from what I have read, short courses with adequate recovery work well. As Bass says, there are "pct" products designed for the use of H-drol also. Good luck and let me know what you decide on doing.
 
captaincrunch said:
Mike you are searching for information like me and you are doing the right thing asking asking and asking again because there is so much to learn to be safe. I cannot stress that enough. I know I'm probably repeating what was said but Hyperdrol is safe enough to use as directed on the bottle without a PCT (by this I mean a serious PCT involving the likes of nolva). Havoc on the other hand is not and I believe that is what you are best pulsing to begin with. I'm doing it right now and it is going great. Theres a few things I'm not 100% about but I know so much more than before I discovered this website that I am real grateful to all those who contribute so I will do the same with what knowledge I have managed to collect. From what I have read there is no need for a PCT with a 3 day/week pulse of Havoc but I'm just erring on the side of caution as the name of the game is getting big whilst staying healthy and I don't want one without the other! Of course if you want to go with H-drol try it for 4 weeks and see how you like it. You can always use it again and from what I have read, short courses with adequate recovery work well. As Bass says, there are "pct" products designed for the use of H-drol also. Good luck and let me know what you decide on doing.
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H-drol has a long half life... Meaning it will stay in your system a long time, as well as meaning that you will have to take it regularly to let it build up if you want it to be effective. Pulsing is best done with compounds that have a short half life. This way your body can get rid of the substance and begin its journey towards homeostasis sooner rather than later. Also, a shorter half life means that you can ramp up the dosage for your pulse. I believe the half life of havoc/epistane is 6-8 hours. Take your dose at least 6-8 hours before bedtime... you don't want any outside sources of androgens to effect your natural testosterone production while you sleep and recover.

By the way... Taking any outside source of hormones may require pct. The idea of a pulse is to prevent the need for pct, or at least to yield fewer side effects. In any event, you should realize that the success of a pulse is determined by 1) your unique body and genetic make up, 2) the compounds you are using and your understanding of them, 3) frequency and size of doses, and 4) less is more... abusing the compounds will defeat the purpose of a pulse.

If anything goes wrong with your body chemistry, or you make a mistake somewhere... Then you WILL need pct. There is no guarantee with pulsing.
 
Thanks I will be prepared for the event of needing a PCT. How do you know if you need one when you are pulsing though? Of course if your natural test production drops then you will lose more of your gains after the cycle but how can you identify this so that you don't lose your hard work? It occurred to me when reading a few posts that when people say they didn't feel the need for a PCT after their cycle that it can't be that easy to tell. I mean your hormone levels could be out of balance without it being obvious. I'm not talking about the obvious indications you will get on a normal cycle. I'm hoping the Mass FX and Hyperdrol that I'm starting in the 2nd month will sort this kind of problem out. Would it be a good idea to add a cortisol blocker in at this stage? Also should I be using one of these OTC PCTs after this 2nd month is up?
 
captaincrunch said:
Thanks I will be prepared for the event of needing a PCT. How do you know if you need one when you are pulsing though? Of course if your natural test production drops then you will lose more of your gains after the cycle but how can you identify this so that you don't lose your hard work? It occurred to me when reading a few posts that when people say they didn't feel the need for a PCT after their cycle that it can't be that easy to tell. I mean your hormone levels could be out of balance without it being obvious. I'm not talking about the obvious indications you will get on a normal cycle. I'm hoping the Mass FX and Hyperdrol that I'm starting in the 2nd month will sort this kind of problem out. Would it be a good idea to add a cortisol blocker in at this stage? Also should I be using one of these OTC PCTs after this 2nd month is up?
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The Mass FX and Hyperdrol X2 will treat you well during pct. If you want to add anything else, get LIFE SUPPORT by Anabolic Innovations. This will help you with non hormonal issues such as blood lipid profile, liver toxicity, prostate health, and more. The only other thing I can think of is a SERM... How do you know when you need a SERM? When you start growing breasts. :scared: If you are lucky you won't need a SERM, but everyone responds differently to each supplement. Messing with your hormones is always a gamble.
 
DR.D said:
Exactly. Age, weight, experience, doctors advise or other medical conditions, experience, intrinsic character of the compound itself, etc. are all considerations.
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How do you bring this up to your doctor. I am interested in pulsing. How can I find a doctor who will I will be able to work with on this that I can talk to and get blood work without feeling like a bad person
 
tommytom said:
How do you bring this up to your doctor. I am interested in pulsing. How can I find a doctor who will I will be able to work with on this that I can talk to and get blood work without feeling like a bad person
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Everything you say to a doctor is completely confidential, if you're genuinely worried he should understand mate. You might get a rant off him but I think he'll agree that it's better to be safe then sorry and run the required blood tests.
 
Liver Issues with Pulsing?

Just finished skim-reading through a load of the posts (it is a massive thread!) but I still have a question:

I ran a full Test-E cycle last summer (10 weeks) with 4 weeks of M-drol at the end. I completed an 8 week PCT but recently my liver tests have been 'elevated' (particularly AST and bilirubin).

I had a scan and my liver seems fine (no cirrhosis) but I'll have it all re-confirmed by the second blood test.

I think my liver issues were due to not enough support supps on cycle (only had AX perfect cycle and fish oil), should have had SAMe & milk thistle as well.

My question is, I want to run an Epi-pulse as part of my cut but considering my liver issues, is it THAT much safer on the liver than doing a standard cycle?

Obviously I'll wait for the 'all-clear' by the doc before touching anything again.

Cheers lads.
 
tommytom said:
How do you bring this up to your doctor. I am interested in pulsing. How can I find a doctor who will I will be able to work with on this that I can talk to and get blood work without feeling like a bad person
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Tommy, if you feel morally convicted then don't do it, whatever it is your considering. You don't need a doctor to define if you feel bad about it. It sounds like you already formed that conclusion yourself. Doctors are only concerned with fixing it if something goes wrong.

For example, if you go to the doctor and tell him you smoke cigarettes, he may run tests to see if you've damaged yourself. Even if you're fine, he's probably still going to advise you to quit smoking! It's in a doctor's interests to help you and not hurt you, that is the Hippocratic oath and the basis for his prescription. He may advise you to start doing something or stop doing something, but it is beyond the scope of his oath to judge your motives as a good or bad person. Each man must search his own heart and decide that for himself.

Nobody is perfect and we all fail sometimes, but if you do your best and have good intentions, you can live with your failures and still keep honor. My dad told me that, he was a football coach and a good man too. He would always stress to me that it was not all about winning, and a dishonest victory was worse than an honest defeat. As a kid, I thought he was out of touch with reality, but now that I'm an old man I realize he was right on! My trainer in middle school would tell me the same thing but he would paraphrase it "do your best and don't sweat the rest" :)
 
Once again, excellent advice from Dr. D.
 
EasyEJL said:
How long after the end of PCT was that blood test? and what were the actual #s?
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Hi mate,

The bloods were taken 25th February, 3 months after the end of PCT (stupid uni doctors wouldn't do it, had to go to my family GP).

All my values were fine except:

AST: 63 (range is 8-40 IU/L)

Bilirubin: 32 (range is 3-17 micromoles per litre)

Like i say, the scan showed nothing in terms of damage. I'll have all the liver values confirmed again on 15th April, hopefully they'll have dropped to normal range. If they have, I'll start a new cycle.

The Bilirubin is weird, but I definitely don't have Gilbert's Syndrome (unusually high levels of bilirubin) as they were 12 micromoles per litre before I started AAS.

Any help would be awesome.
 
thats a long time for bilirubin to be so elevated still. i dont think another month will quite make it to normal, unless you are on high SAMe doses
 
EasyEJL said:
thats a long time for bilirubin to be so elevated still. i dont think another month will quite make it to normal, unless you are on high SAMe doses
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Yeah tell me about it! Seems crazy with no damage to speak of. I'm not on SAMe unfortunately but it will definitely be a staple in my liver protectant arsenal for my next cycle, I've only read good things about it's effects on the liver.
 
UKStrength said:
Yeah tell me about it! Seems crazy with no damage to speak of. I'm not on SAMe unfortunately but it will definitely be a staple in my liver protectant arsenal for my next cycle, I've only read good things about it's effects on the liver.
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Run the SAMe for 4 weeks like this...
600/400/200/200

Then have AST/Bilirubin checked again.
Don't run ANY methyl until those liver values come down.
 
My first week is over now and I have no shutdown at all. Girlfriend was over tonight and if anything it was the opposite of shutdown. I am guessing this is the bounce back that I have been reading about. Tomorrow is chest day again and thinking of bumping up to 20 before and 20 after. Don't think I'm ready for 30mg before training just yet. Having problems controlling my temper at times. I guess tomorrow will show if I have gained strength from my first day last week. I'm not expecting anything magic but would be nice to move up 5kg on the chest. I must report my shoulder is feeling a little sore but then again I often feel this injury so I will warm it up well tomorrow and do what I usually do. Is it common to get tendon related injuries on Havoc? I was lifting my PB on shoulders on Wednesday but I didn't feel anything at the time.

I have discovered I have a bottle of retain in my cupboard. Should I start using this on off days with my ALRI Restore? Seems like a good idea. New plan looks something like this...

Week 1 - Havoc pulse (lower doses)

Weeks 2-5 - Havoc pulse with Retain and ALRI Restore on off days

Week 6 - MASS FX 2 tabs/day HD 2 tabs/day

Weeks 7-10 - Mass FX 4 tabs/day HD 4 tabs/day

Weeks 11-14 - Retain or similar product.

Will be taking fish oils, liver support, vitamins etc throughout.

Anyone spy any problems with what I'm doing? Thanks.
 
GotTest said:
Run the SAMe for 4 weeks like this...
600/400/200/200

Then have AST/Bilirubin checked again.
Don't run ANY methyl until those liver values come down.
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Cheers for the help mate, i'll grab some SAMe today.

If and when the levels normalise, should I continue to run the SAMe throughout my next cycle or save for PCT?

captaincrunch said:
My first week is over now and I have no shutdown at all. Girlfriend was over tonight and if anything it was the opposite of shutdown. I am guessing this is the bounce back that I have been reading about. Tomorrow is chest day again and thinking of bumping up to 20 before and 20 after. Don't think I'm ready for 30mg before training just yet. Having problems controlling my temper at times. I guess tomorrow will show if I have gained strength from my first day last week. I'm not expecting anything magic but would be nice to move up 5kg on the chest. I must report my shoulder is feeling a little sore but then again I often feel this injury so I will warm it up well tomorrow and do what I usually do. Is it common to get tendon related injuries on Havoc? I was lifting my PB on shoulders on Wednesday but I didn't feel anything at the time.

I have discovered I have a bottle of retain in my cupboard. Should I start using this on off days with my ALRI Restore? Seems like a good idea. New plan looks something like this...

Week 1 - Havoc pulse (lower doses)

Weeks 2-5 - Havoc pulse with Retain and ALRI Restore on off days

Week 6 - MASS FX 2 tabs/day HD 2 tabs/day

Weeks 7-10 - Mass FX 4 tabs/day HD 4 tabs/day

Weeks 11-14 - Retain or similar product.

Will be taking fish oils, liver support, vitamins etc throughout.

Anyone spy any problems with what I'm doing? Thanks.
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Looks good to me mate, the only thing I think my be an issue is the liver support on the same day as the Havoc? Although I'm sure if you dose it all out it won't be a problem.

Sounds like you're having a great cycle so far! I think you'll be ok at 30mg Havoc pre-workout, I tolerated M-drol up to 40mg/day without any issues, but then again we're all different.
 
UKStrength said:
Cheers for the help mate, i'll grab some SAMe today.

If and when the levels normalise, should I continue to run the SAMe throughout my next cycle or save for PCT?
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It really depends on the cycle run. If I was in your shoes I'd run at least 200mg/day ON cycle, but dose at least 4 hours away from steroid dose.

SAMe is a staple for every one of my PCT!
 
GotTest said:
It really depends on the cycle run. If I was in your shoes I'd run at least 200mg/day ON cycle, but dose at least 4 hours away from steroid dose.

SAMe is a staple for every one of my PCT!
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My next cycle will likely be an E-stane pulse for 6-8 weeks, from what I've heard epistane is really mild on the liver (compared to superdrol at least) but definitely run double-dosed AX perfect cycle, megadosed fishoils and SAMe throughout to make sure.

I used a SERM (Nolvadex) for my last cycle PCT (8 weeks), think that's what could have caused the damage? (Tamoxifen is pretty toxic) Should I go SERM-free for the E-stane pulse?

I dosed the tamoxifen for my last cycle (values are per week): 20/20/20/20/40*/20/10/5

* I got sore nipples here so I increased the dosage and added high dose Vitamin B6.

Cheers mate.
 
If you do the E-stane for 6 weeks I think thats about the longest you shuld do without a SERM. I used Nolvadex before but only for 4 weeks. 8 does seem long for something as liver toxic. Did you feel you needed the full 8 weeks?

I have a couple more questions of my own. What time of day should I take my retain and 6-bromo on my off days and why are people saying not to take things for liver support on the same day as PHs? I would take some liver longer with my meal that I take my pre-workout Havoc. Is this wrong? Also what is meant in the very first post about milk thistle being counter-productive to gains? Thanks.
 
Thinking of running an Mdrol pulse for recomp.

6 weeks
W1:20/20/off/20/20/off/off
W2:same
W3:20/20/off/20-30/20-30/off/off
W4:20-30/20-30/off/30/30/off/off
W5:30/30/off/30/30/off/off
W6:same

During week 3, depending on how gains are going I may bump to 30mg, I may keep it at 20. If gains are still coming I'll wait till week 4 and assess gains then.

Off days are going to be AI's Stoked (same as their PCS with more ingredients from what I can tell).
Cortisol blocker like Retain/Lean Xtreme/X Lean may be used on off days as well.

For PCT, I think I should go with a SERM since I'm gyno prone. I realize OTC PCT is popular right now, and pulse would probably be the kind of cycle most likely to use one...but for me...I need my piece of mind I think lol.

Nolva for SERM, but not sure what else to add in. Activate Xtreme maybe? Formadrol? PCT Assist?

If there is cortisol blocker left over from the cycle (most likely will be) I'll continue to use that as well.

I'm wanting to know basically three things.

A) Is this good for a recomp as opposed to a straight cycle of Hdrol for 6 weeks going from 50mg-100mg progressively?
B) If there is anything that looks like it needs changing, what is it?
C) Aside from the nolva, what else would I need for my PCT?

BTW...6' 225lbs, <15% bf, >7 years lifting experience, have experimented with PH/PS for 3 years now.

Help me out guys. The past 7 days have been quite confusing. I feel like a kid in a candy store trying to pick something out...and I don't know what the **** to pick lol.
 
captaincrunch said:
If you do the E-stane for 6 weeks I think thats about the longest you should do without a SERM. I used Nolvadex before but only for 4 weeks. 8 does seem long for something as liver toxic. Did you feel you needed the full 8 weeks?
Click to expand...

6 weeks sounds sensible mate. To be honest I'm still not sure whether to do a pulse or straight cycle, I think it'll all depend on the blood results...

In terms of the Nolvadex, it was my first ever step into the world of AAS and for some reason I felt that for a 10 week cycle of Test E followed by 4 weeks of M-drol, 4 weeks of Nolva wasn't going to cut it. I decided to go lower dose and for longer and see how it went.

I realise now that Nolvadex is probably used best in a 'short and sharp' manner, 4 weeks of that stuff is easily enough to sort out most cycles, especially if you used HCG and an AI whilst on. It might not even be needed for something like Epistane, who knows until you try it.
 
deadikated said:
Thinking of running an Mdrol pulse for recomp.

6 weeks
W1:20/20/off/20/20/off/off
W2:same
W3:20/20/off/20-30/20-30/off/off
W4:20-30/20-30/off/30/30/off/off
W5:30/30/off/30/30/off/off
W6:same

During week 3, depending on how gains are going I may bump to 30mg, I may keep it at 20. If gains are still coming I'll wait till week 4 and assess gains then.

Off days are going to be AI's Stoked (same as their PCS with more ingredients from what I can tell).
Cortisol blocker like Retain/Lean Xtreme/X Lean may be used on off days as well.

For PCT, I think I should go with a SERM since I'm gyno prone. I realize OTC PCT is popular right now, and pulse would probably be the kind of cycle most likely to use one...but for me...I need my piece of mind I think lol.

Nolva for SERM, but not sure what else to add in. Activate Xtreme maybe? Formadrol? PCT Assist?

If there is cortisol blocker left over from the cycle (most likely will be) I'll continue to use that as well.

I'm wanting to know basically three things.

A) Is this good for a recomp as opposed to a straight cycle of Hdrol for 6 weeks going from 50mg-100mg progressively?
B) If there is anything that looks like it needs changing, what is it?
C) Aside from the nolva, what else would I need for my PCT?

BTW...6' 225lbs, <15% bf, >7 years lifting experience, have experimented with PH/PS for 3 years now.

Help me out guys. The past 7 days have been quite confusing. I feel like a kid in a candy store trying to pick something out...and I don't know what the **** to pick lol.
Click to expand...

A) I think M-drol should make a good recomp, especially if pulsed, your dosages look good. I got up to 40mg/day on my last cycle and believe me I felt like death warmed up!

B) The combo of Cortisol blocker and Stoked! looks great, I think other choices like AX Hyperdrol X2 might be too much for a compound like M-drol that doesn't aromatise anyway.

C) Definitely use the Nolva if you're gyno-prone. I just used a SERM and cortisol blocker for my last cycle which seemed to work well, I wouldn't like to guess what you should use with these newer compounds as I'm still learning myself!
 
2 YEAR OLD DISRUPTING THE FORUMS

getreal said:
doctor d is giving out dangerous advice, I wonder what the d is for ? hehe!
Click to expand...

Ok if you dont get it I will spell it out for you , some of us are trying to learn from a person with obvious experience and that person does not have the name of GetReal. You obviously are acting like a small child running around the room yelling " Look at Me Look at me " while the adults are trying to watch a movie. Either sit back and quit your disruption or I will get the paddle out with holes drilled in it I.E. turn you in to the forum moderators.
 
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