How to "pulse" orals

[DR.D]

... What I've read about niacin is that in order to have the beneficial effect on HDL, a therapeutic dose of 2000 - 3000mg per day needs to be reached. I've also had some discussions with local pharmacists that claim that liver toxicity is rare in daily doses under 6000mg/day! Now, that assumes no pre-existing liver condition and the use of regular niacin as opposed to the time-released or flush-free versions which tend to increase the risk of hepatotoxicity. ...

All true! I can tell you've done your homework on this and it sounds like you know your body well with good confidence. You have considered all the important stuff and you know the facts alright. Let us know your results as you determine them!

 

[ImJ2x]

I take only 500mg nicotinic acid ED, at bedtime, on an empty stomach. I don't flush when I take it with food, but I take it on an empty stomach anyway because I have a "gut feeling" the flush is probably beneficial (not very scientific, I know).
But with you guys talking about doses in the 2-3gm range, I did a little research and found this:

EFFECT OF NIACIN ON HDL CHOLESTEROL
High doses of niacin have beneficial effects on serum lipids, but use of this agent has been limited by a high rate of side effects. Researchers at St Luke's Hospital and Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine in Cleveland, Ohio, have evaluated the efficacy of a lower dose of niacin. Fifty-five patients, all under medical care for long-term, stable cardiovascular disease, were started on 250 mg/day niacin, increasing to 1 g/day over four weeks. Seventeen similar patients who preferred not to receive niacin served as controls. Serum lipids were measured at baseline and after three and six months of therapy. Thirteen patients (24%) dropped out of the study in its early stages, mainly because of side effects such as severe upper body flushing, itching, and gastrointestinal symptoms. Overall, 40% of the niacin-treated patients dropped out before completing the study--again mainly because of side effects--although serious side effects of the types reported in higher-dose studies (peptic ulcer, jaundice with abnormal liver function) did not occur. Among patients completing the study, high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol rose significantly and the total/HDL cholesterol ratio decreased significantly after three months, with additional significant changes in the same directions after six months. The mean HDL increase was 31% and the mean total/HDL cholesterol ratio decrease was 27%. There were no significant changes in total cholesterol and triglyceride levels. The author notes that the findings must be considered preliminary because the study, limited in size and duration, was not double-blinded or randomized and may have contained a biased control group. Despite these limitations and the problems with side effects, he believes low-dose niacin is worthy of further consideration "as an inexpensive agent especially useful for elevating HDL cholesterol level and altering the total cholesterol/HDL cholesterol ratio."

Obviously, it's too early to draw conclusions, but it appears lower/safer doses of Niacin may be perfectly adequate for boosting HDL. I'm now debating whether to stick with my 500mg ED, or raise to 1000mg, split AM and PM. ???

 

[Ninjo]

I take only 500mg nicotinic acid ED, at bedtime, on an empty stomach. I don't flush when I take it with food, but I take it on an empty stomach anyway because I have a "gut feeling" the flush is probably beneficial (not very scientific, I know).

I've also read that taking it on an empty stomach will raise GH levels; another great reason to take it this way (if only I could tolerate the flushing!).

 

[ImJ2x]

I've also read that taking it on an empty stomach will raise GH levels; another great reason to take it this way (if only I could tolerate the flushing!).

You get used to the flush. I almost like the flushing and itching, lol. It makes me more confident that the stuff is working.

 

[London28]

Hello again

After having eye problems (uveitis) I just left the idea of pulsing but have been given the all clear so from last week I have used just 10mg of Dbol Pre work out. 3 x last week will do 3 x this week, ad then 2 x next week. I might up the dose next week for the 2 days.

I'm looking for a little help without any of the bad sides so will keep the dose as low as possible for as log as possible and right now im horny allot, feel ok so will cotinue at this dose, as I would like to avoid havign to Use PCT. ( I have Nolva on hand though.

I have a couple of questions.

1) . i am sure my lower gut is holding allot of water all of a sudden, could this be possible for the Dbol to be doing this at such a low, iregular dose?

2) how much would you say the 'average' person can pulse before you end up needign to run PCT like a normal cycle?

3) I workout late and thats another reason I wated to keep the dose low so that i have time to get it out of my system befroe I Wake up the next day, so my body does't decide to slow down with its own production. I take the Dbol about an hour before i train, to give me a little boost and help with nutrient uptake, but some one was suggesting to me yesterday that taking maybe 4 hours before would be better to help give a better nutrient absortbtio...any opinions?

4) any one tried Andriol? its always shunend on forums as "useless" but i was reading a article on RXmuscle and it sounds pretty ideal for pulsing

I know thats a long winded few questions lol I will work on summerising !! :biglaugh:

 

[EasyEJL]

2) how much would you say the 'average' person can pulse before you end up needign to run PCT like a normal cycle?

I'd guess 8-12 weeks, maybe more. Its really both personal, as well as compound/dosage specific. 10mg superdrol 3x a week could probably go 16 weeks, 40mg epistane 4x a week probably 6-8 weeks.

3) I workout late and thats another reason I wated to keep the dose low so that i have time to get it out of my system befroe I Wake up the next day, so my body does't decide to slow down with its own production. I take the Dbol about an hour before i train, to give me a little boost and help with nutrient uptake, but some one was suggesting to me yesterday that taking maybe 4 hours before would be better to help give a better nutrient absortbtio...any opinions?

how long after workout do you go to bed, and what do you eat between workout + bed?

4) any one tried Andriol? its always shunend on forums as "useless" but i was reading a article on RXmuscle and it sounds pretty ideal for pulsing

You'd be better off pulsing 4ad, at least you wouldn't be spending as much $15-20 per pulse day

 

[London28]

I'd guess 8-12 weeks, maybe more. Its really both personal, as well as compound/dosage specific. 10mg superdrol 3x a week could probably go 16 weeks, 40mg epistane 4x a week probably 6-8 weeks.




how long after workout do you go to bed, and what do you eat between workout + bed?



You'd be better off pulsing 4ad, at least you wouldn't be spending as much $15-20 per pulse day

Hey

I am using Dbol right now. Just wondered abotu andriol as it 'sounds' like a perfect pulsing AAS.

I train around 7pm some times a bit later, go to bed about 11pm and I have post work out shake plus a meal - normally meat ad veg.

 

[EasyEJL]

thats decent mealwise then I guess, could try moving the dbol a little earlier than 6, but its mostly gone by the time you are hitting the bed.

if you got andriol free, chemically it works out nice but the pricing is so horrible. $2 per tab for 40mg, and you'd likely want 6-8 caps for a pulse.

 

[Graglor]

thats decent mealwise then I guess, could try moving the dbol a little earlier than 6, but its mostly gone by the time you are hitting the bed.

if you got andriol free, chemically it works out nice but the pricing is so horrible. $2 per tab for 40mg, and you'd likely want 6-8 caps for a pulse.

Hey Easy, do you know what the half life of Epidrol/Havoc/ets is?

 

[EasyEJL]

supposed to be in the 6-8 range.

 

[Graglor]

supposed to be in the 6-8 range.

You the man Easy!!!!

 

[London28]

Hey

on week two, still at 10mg pre work out.

Just wondered. I have felt a little light headed, slight dizzyness? the last two or three days. I put it down to the new glasses i have had to get used to but today i have contacts in and still the same. I read a post on another site before where soem one tried pulsing and gave up after 2 or 3 weeks, claiming to feel Strange. Dave Palumbo has also stated befroe that messingn abotu with fluctuating hormone levers will just make you feel "Odd"

would you think this could be the case? I am putting it down to the glasses or maybe diet for now as its only 10mg pre work out!!!! maybe a bit of headology too.

Any one feltl anythig like this?

 

[ImJ2x]

OK, I'm designing a really weird pulse. (I don't do anything the "normal" way -- my brain don't work right.) It's more like a bunch of micro-cycles (complete with PCT) than a traditional pulse. The theory, of course, is to prevent or minimize shutdown. (At my age, I'm afraid if my boyz shutdown, they may never wake back up.)

Mo: 1000mg 1,4AD; Sustain
Tu: 1000mg 1,4AD; 20mg Superdrol; Dermacrine (workout day)
We: 1000mg 1,4AD; 20mg Superdrol; Dermacrine (workout day)
Th: 1000mg 1,4AD; 20mg Superdrol; Dermacrine (workout day)
Fr: 1000mg 1,4AD; Sustain
Sa: Toremefine; Sustain
Su: Toremefine; Sustain
REPEAT (for 4-6 months, hopefully)...

Notes:
I chose Torem over Nolva and Clomid because it supposedly acts very quickly. I'm hoping that a quick 2 days of Torem might reboot my natty test production every week.
The reasons for my Dermacrine/Sustain split are kinda complicated, but I'll try to explain, if anyone's interested.
I actually have tons of 1,4Andro and OG Super -- I'm just trying to figure out a cool way to use them.

critique away...

 

[RUNNER 67]

OK, I'm designing a really weird pulse. (I don't do anything the "normal" way -- my brain don't work right.) It's more like a bunch of micro-cycles (complete with PCT) than a traditional pulse. The theory, of course, is to prevent or minimize shutdown. (At my age, I'm afraid if my boyz shutdown, they may never wake back up.)

Mo: 1000mg 1,4AD; Sustain
Tu: 1000mg 1,4AD; 20mg Superdrol; Dermacrine (workout day)
We: 1000mg 1,4AD; 20mg Superdrol; Dermacrine (workout day)
Th: 1000mg 1,4AD; 20mg Superdrol; Dermacrine (workout day)
Fr: 1000mg 1,4AD; Sustain
Sa: Toremefine; Sustain
Su: Toremefine; Sustain
REPEAT (for 4-6 months, hopefully)...

Notes:
I chose Torem over Nolva and Clomid because it supposedly acts very quickly. I'm hoping that a quick 2 days of Torem might reboot my natty test production every week.
The reasons for my Dermacrine/Sustain split are kinda complicated, but I'll try to explain, if anyone's interested.
I actually have tons of 1,4Andro and OG Super -- I'm just trying to figure out a cool way to use them.

critique away...

4 to 6 months with the sd and torem may play hell with your insides. If you dose the 1,4 ad a little lower, around 400 mg, I beleive I read it acts with AI qualities, therefore perhaps helping with rebounding of test. Just a thought. If your body can handle this, it should be a wicked cycle, with tons of vascularity. Good Luck!

 

[ImJ2x]

4 to 6 months with the sd and torem may play hell with your insides. If you dose the 1,4 ad a little lower, around 400 mg, I beleive I read it acts with AI qualities, therefore perhaps helping with rebounding of test. Just a thought. If your body can handle this, it should be a wicked cycle, with tons of vascularity. Good Luck!

Thanks for the input, bro.
I'm hoping with only 60mg/week SD, and just 2 days/week Torem, it's actually a pretty gentle cycle. And 1,4AD is quite mild, even at high doses. I don't wanna die...

 

[brahmabull]

It looks like your taking 1,4 ad everyday. This ph as well as tren can be taken on a ED schedule. But stuff like epi, superdrol, and phera-plex are better pulsed. I don't think its a weird cycle but, I'd save the torem either till after your pulse cycle. You may not need it.

 

[ImJ2x]

I know 1,4AD is not ideal for pulsing. That's why I'm trying 5on/2off, with Torem on the 2 off days. It's kind of a compromise pulsing scheme, in an attempt to use my 1,4AD without allowing my boyz to go into total shutdown.

 

[DR.D]

I know 1,4AD is not ideal for pulsing. That's why I'm trying 5on/2off, with Torem on the 2 off days. It's kind of a compromise pulsing scheme, in an attempt to use my 1,4AD without allowing my boyz to go into total shutdown.

With 14ad being a mild AI, plus being non-methyl, and having a short t1/2, you might be able to get away with that for quite awhile! Keep us posted.

 

[ImJ2x]

With 14ad being a mild AI, plus being non-methyl, and having a short t1/2, you might be able to get away with that for quite awhile! Keep us posted.

Hey D -- It's always nice to have your input. Thanks.
I'd rather go with 4 days of 1,4AD (+ some SD, of course) followed by 3 days of Torem, but I have a feeling that will really short-change the 1,4AD. It's hard enough to get that stuff to work on a regular ED cycle. So 5on/2off is probably my best bet. And if it turns out that PrimPerf's 7,8Benzoflavone (in both Sustain and Dermacrine) does work like hCG (the jury's still out), along with the 2 days/week of Torem, maybe I'll be able to prevent the boyz from shutting down too hard. It's worth a shot.

 

[ImJ2x]

OK, I woke up this morning with a new, revised strategy; slightly more conservative/safer, for the long haul:

Day 1) 1000mg 1,4AD + 4AD* + Sustain Alpha + 20mg Superdrol (workout day)
Day 2) 1000mg 1,4AD + 4AD* + Sustain Alpha + 20mg Superdrol (workout day)
Day 3) 1000mg 1,4AD + 4AD* + Sustain Alpha + 20mg Superdrol (workout day)
Day 4) 1000mg 1,4AD + 4AD* + Sustain Alpha
Day 5) Toremefine + Diesel Test Hardcore
Day 6) Toremefine + Diesel Test Hardcore
Day 7) Toremefine + Diesel Test Hardcore
REPEAT every week. (I have enough 1,4AD to run this almost a year, but I'll probably split it into 2 or 3 cycles.)
*I think I can get my hands on some real 4AD. If not, I'll try AMS's 4AD (4DHEA), which seems to be the next closest thing.

My biggest concern is with using the 1,4AD only 4 days/week. Everyone says it needs to be used everyday for at least 6 weeks to "build up" in your system. (With such a short half-life, I don't really understand this.) But I plan on running this cycle for at least 20 weeks. Hopefully, it will have plenty of time to do that build up thingy, even at only 4 days/week. I dunno...

 

[spiderduncan]

Excellent Revision

Everyone says it needs to be used everyday for at least 6 weeks to "build up" in your system. (With such a short half-life, I don't really understand this.)

According to hearsay, I would agree with this statement. However, I like the idea of minimizing the "on" days. I think it would be a great experiment.

Secondly, the use of Tor to restore/minimize suppression will be a great experiment. I am contemplating a similar cycle with SD and the Ultimate Diet2.0. At the moment, I am thinking about Clomid the first day "off".

Questions:
1. Have you used Sustain Alpha before?
2. How did you come up with you dosing for SA?
3. Will you log your experience?

 

[ImJ2x]

According to hearsay, I would agree with this statement. However, I like the idea of minimizing the "on" days. I think it would be a great experiment.

Secondly, the use of Tor to restore/minimize suppression will be a great experiment. I am contemplating a similar cycle with SD and the Ultimate Diet2.0. At the moment, I am thinking about Clomid the first day "off".

Questions:
1. Have you used Sustain Alpha before?
2. How did you come up with you dosing for SA?
3. Will you log your experience?

1. No
2. I haven't specified dosing for the SA, but I believe they recommend 5-6 squirts/day.
3. No. I'm way too busy/unreliable to do a log, lol. But I will drop by occasionally with updates and observations.

Also, I would recommend Torem over Clomid or Nolva, just because it works so damn fast. I don't think 3 days of Clomid or Nolva would do much of anything.

 

[EasyEJL]

OK, I woke up this morning with a new, revised strategy; slightly more conservative/safer, for the long haul:

Day 1) 1000mg 1,4AD + 4AD* + Sustain Alpha + 20mg Superdrol (workout day)
Day 2) 1000mg 1,4AD + 4AD* + Sustain Alpha + 20mg Superdrol (workout day)
Day 3) 1000mg 1,4AD + 4AD* + Sustain Alpha + 20mg Superdrol (workout day)
Day 4) 1000mg 1,4AD + 4AD* + Sustain Alpha
Day 5) Toremefine + Diesel Test Hardcore
Day 6) Toremefine + Diesel Test Hardcore
Day 7) Toremefine + Diesel Test Hardcore
REPEAT every week. (I have enough 1,4AD to run this almost a year, but I'll probably split it into 2 or 3 cycles.)
*I think I can get my hands on some real 4AD. If not, I'll try AMS's 4AD (4DHEA), which seems to be the next closest thing.

My biggest concern is with using the 1,4AD only 4 days/week. Everyone says it needs to be used everyday for at least 6 weeks to "build up" in your system. (With such a short half-life, I don't really understand this.) But I plan on running this cycle for at least 20 weeks. Hopefully, it will have plenty of time to do that build up thingy, even at only 4 days/week. I dunno...

if you are getting real 4ad, going to use it transdermal? it sucks orally

and i wouldnt worry about that buildup nonsense either.

 

[ImJ2x]

if you are getting real 4ad, going to use it transdermal? it sucks orally

and i wouldnt worry about that buildup nonsense either.

The 4AD I'm looking at (which is supposedly legit 4-Androstenediol) comes in 200mg caps. There's probably a way to turn this into a transdermal; I'll consider it...

 

[EasyEJL]

The 4AD I'm looking at (which is supposedly legit 4-Androstenediol) comes in 200mg caps. There's probably a way to turn this into a transdermal; I'll consider it...

ah i think i know the one, black label gold writing, 120 caps to the bottle? seems legit from personal use

 

[ImJ2x]

ah i think i know the one, black label gold writing, 120 caps to the bottle? seems legit from personal use

I'm not sure what the bottle looks like. (On their website they just show a pic of the old AST 4-Diol 250, lol.) But it is 120 caps/bottle, 200mg/cap. So maybe...
(If this is what you used, it was good stuff?)

 

[EasyEJL]

yeah, the pic on their site is that one, but thats not what they ship. florida address too if i recall right.

Seemed to be "real" from what i could judge

 

[ImJ2x]

Yeah, I think they are in FL.
I talked to them on the phone a couple years ago, and the dude swears it's real 4-Androstenediol. I may need to obtain some...

 

[ImJ2x]

It's funny they've been running their "Huge 50% Off Clearance" for over 2 years now, lol.

 

[wood23]

hey Imjx. i remember you were doing a pulse 2 days on 5 off . Did you end up doing it. How did it go? I do like how you think outside the box. Good luck with this one.

 

[ImJ2x]

hey Imjx. i remember you were doing a pulse 2 days on 5 off . Did you end up doing it. How did it go? I do like how you think outside the box. Good luck with this one.

I'm actually still on it. (I think I could run this indefinitely.) And it works very well.
I live by the beach, so I do the typical fall/winter bulk & spring/summer cut, to look ripped for the beach bunnies. This winter, I put on 20lbs with the 2on/5off pulse. (Maybe 5lbs was midsection blubber; the other 15lbs was USDA Prime meat.) And there have been a few weeks where I actually tried 1on/6off, just as an experiment. (It was challenging to get an effective full-body workout in just 1 day/week of lifting, but I enjoyed it.) Even 1on/6off seems effective as a maintenance routine -- I didn't lose a thing.
I'm beginning to believe that steroids are mainly just needed during your workout (to lift bigger weights), and shortly after your workout (to build bigger muscles). And the doses you take on "off" days contribute mostly just to sides and shutdown.
So I'm probably gonna take a month or two off, acquire all the ingredients for my aforementioned "micro-cycle" pulse, and begin it in April or May. Unlike last year, I'll actually be "on" during the summer. But I'll still try to get ripped -- more of a lean bulk/cut than my current SD/PP cycle. And then in Aug or Sept, assuming I'm still on the cycle, I'll bump up the calories (and maybe the SD) and start bulking.
I'm excited...

 

[EasyEJL]

It's funny they've been running their "Huge 50% Off Clearance" for over 2 years now, lol.

yeah, $59.95 doesn't all that much feel half price tho

 

[Mu5tang69]

curious is " the one" good for pulsing? It has a 8-10 hour half life.

 

[EasyEJL]

I'm kinda stumped on that one myself. I'd tend to think it would be ok for it though. interestingly, i think i'd still just use 3 or 4 caps rather than bumping the dose up, but also still just take them first thing in the morning. Theres no way you could take em 1 hr preworkout if you work out evenings and still have any hope of normal sleep.

 

[brahmabull]

I train in the evenings and I do a pulse dose both pre and post workout. If I have trouble sleeping, I normally pop a couple of melatonin to knock me out. Sometimes my level of fatigue is high enough to where I don't need anything to help me sleep. Currently, I'm on an epi/tren pulse cycle for a 6 week run. Just yesterday though, I got a hold of some Powerfull by usp labs so I can take it before I go to bed. They say it helps with sleep plus you get a nice gh kick. If it works, I'll let you guys know.

And as for the "buildup" theory, that only applies to drugs like digoxin in which your trying to achieve a therapeutic level. AAS that are oral don't necessarily have a "buildup" activity. They all have a different amount of time to saturate receptor sites and activate satellite cells to execute the appropriate response due to their unique chemical structure(s) and enzymatic reactions to the body's cells. If any "buildup" is occurring, its probably happening in vital organs and causing nasty side effects.

 

[5abi]

hello new to this board,

got pointed in the direction for info on pulsing...sounds like it works good.

my question, i've read thorugh alot of this thread, and pulsing works great and requires not PCT if done right?

I would plan on doing:

Superdrol 3xweek

week1 10/10/10
week2 20/20/20
week3 20/20/20

over...wait like 2months and repeat?

would this work?

I did superdrol a year ago, days 1-4 10mgs, 4-11 20 and kept all 9lbs without pct.

did i get the jist?

week

 

[Doc Holliday]

Ok guys. Andriol gets a horrible rap in my opinion. Now, I havent taken AAS since 2003, so after reading this thread I started a pulse cycle, just 1 40mg capsule of andriol an hour pre workout with a meal.

My lifts have went up slightly and I'm dieting, also I am staying at a higher weight than normal when cutting, yet the fat is still steadily coming off.

Now the thing is people talk about taking 6-8 caps of andriol a day. I don't understand why you would need that much. One capsule has 40mg but since the undeconate ester is so big it takes up 15 mg of the dose. So after taking one capsule you have 25mg of active test in the bloodstream, then it slowly goes down over the next 5-6 hours. Since the average "high testosterone" man makes about 7-10mg a day naturally, how is andriol such a bad compound?

Also I pay 35 bucks for 30 tabs, so its expensive but not crazy outrageous if your doses are low. Can anyone explain why 25mg of test in your bloodstream one hour or so after administration is bad? I'm seriously curious because I read this all over the place. "6-8 a day to make gains." Thats 150-200mg of test a day! Anyway i realize that it has an oddball absorbtion rate that depends on taking it with a meal ect., but anyone have any answers? thanks guys!

 

[brahmabull]

Andriol has got to be one of the worst oral AAS on the planet. Hell, the legal oral ds/ph produce more anabolic gains than this crap does. Plus, you don't have to spend a ton of money on the legal DS in comparison to andriol. I found this to be a really weak compound that offers very little gains in size and strength. My doses were up to 4 tabs a day and ended paying a fortune for a 4 week cycle. For 240 dollars, I can buy a couple bottles of tren xtreme and make alot more gains in comparison to andriol.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Andriol has got to be one of the worst oral AAS on the planet. Hell, the legal oral ds/ph produce more anabolic gains than this crap does. Plus, you don't have to spend a ton of money on the legal DS in comparison to andriol. I found this to be a really weak compound that offers very little gains in size and strength. My doses were up to 4 tabs a day and ended paying a fortune for a 4 week cycle. For 240 dollars, I can buy a couple bottles of tren xtreme and make alot more gains in comparison to andriol.

I think it may be individualistic as far as that goes. Most people don't like it, but most people don't take things as a "tiny" boost, they take things that will build 20lbs of muscle. Since andriol is just a tiny boost everyone hates it. I must say I like the drug for my purposes, I'm almost natural so I guess thats why. I am going to add about 5-10mg of dbol to it for a much bigger pre workout boost, but overall I like the drug. Is it feasible for people who are regular users of AAS? No. It works though IMO, for those who just want a small bump w/very little shutdown of the HPTA.

 

[EasyEJL]

I'm almost natural so I guess thats why

my wife is almost a virgin too

 

[Doc Holliday]

my wife is almost a virgin too

haha, yeah i try to stay away from the word natural usually. All i have taken is a cycle of test prop in 2003, some proviron between then and now off and on, and now some andriol 3 times a week. Thats not natural, but less use than some!

 

[captaincrunch]

I have been reading the messages on this board for about 2 hours now so apologies if I missed something obvious but here goes...

Could I realistically get away with 4 week pulsing Havoc on Wed, Fri, Sun (lifting on those days and also Mondays) at say 10mg the first day then 20mg the next few days then 30mg all week 2 and 40 mg weeks 3 and 4? OK I already know I can but my real question is more of a wider one. I will also be using "Restore" 1 capsule on OFF days and planning on 4 weeks of Mass FX once the cycle is done. From reading the posts up to now it seems to suit me. I will make it easier to understand with a chart.

Week 1: WED 10mg, FRI 20mg, SUN 20mg (1 cap of Restore on all off days for 4 weeks)
Week 2: WED FRI SUN all 30mg
Week 3: 40mg
Week 4: 40mg
Weeks 5-8: Mass FX normal doses
Weeks 9-12: Same as Weeks 1-4 again

So would this actually work?

My other questions are:

1)What time of day do you actually take the Havoc when pulsing like this? Is it just on 2 occasions during the day (before and after workout) and how long should be left between these doses if theres just 2 of them? Seems a very basic question but I either missed it or wasn't on the pages I read.

2) What should I do in week 13?

3) I know Tribulus every day for the first 4 weeks is fine if I'm not using Mass FX BUT seeing as I have put Mass FX in week 5-8 should I still use tribulus in weeks 1-4 (and maybe weeks 9-12) or is this totally the wrong thing to do. It seems to me its either perfectly fine (they work in different ways) OR very bad idea cos its would be like taking tribulus for 12 weeks (if they are similar).

I have read up on all the stuff and used Havoc in the past with great results and I just want to be as safe as possible really. I love the idea of not doing a PCT and thats what really appeals to me here.

P.S. Much respect to those who have taken the time to help people like myself with answers to questions that may seem obvious. Hopefully I can contribute something myself. I can tell you that I used Havoc for 5 weeks at 30mg every day and got shut down for a week or 2 at the end but I used Nolva and got out of it smoothly and never had the gyno. Friend of mine was on the same cycle and got the gyno afterwards though. Havoc may well reduce gyno to begin with but watch it doesn't bite you in the ass.

 

[captaincrunch]

Been doing some more reading up and saw Dr.D says 3 hours between the doses and to dose twice on ON days. As for the other questions, I am still searching for my answers... and learning a lot!

Read about the hyperdrol and mass fx stack which seems pretty tasty. I wonder could I even do 4 weeks pulsing havoc, 8 weeks mass fx/hyperdrol and then 4 weeks pulsing havoc again? This would be another option but I gather it will only work if they do not interfere with each other. maybe someone can shed some light on this as to the safety of this mammoth 16 week program. Afterall health comes first. If breaks are needed could you tell me when. Am I right in saying if this 16 week program is viable that I shoud not bother with "Restore" on OFF days? Seems logical seeing os its a 6-bromo product like Hyperdrol. Cheers again M8s.

 

[captaincrunch]

bumping for response if poss

 

[EasyEJL]

if health comes first then you shouldnt use the Havoc. not that i feel its unsafe, but there is no telling. it has only been around a few years.

 

[captaincrunch]

I thought someone might say that. Assuming I'm going to take it anyway, I'm looking for a good method of dosing and staying as healthy as possible. Basically I'd like to know if the 2 ideas I came up with after reading what you guys were talking about would work efficiently or whether adding in the 8 week bridge would be a bridge too far (sorry for the terrible pun but I do try). I'd love to know how Mass FX comes into play and more importantly (assuming its relatively safe so far) how long before I can repeat the process or do I need to lay off for a good bit? Cheers guys the answers to these points will be greatly appreciated. Yes health is important but if health was all I cared about then as Easy says, I wouldn't want to be using Havoc.

 

[DR.D]

Has anyone ever tried pulsing Test Suspension?

Stack an AI if you're gyno sensitive.

 

[EasyEJL]

Been doing some more reading up and saw Dr.D says 3 hours between the doses and to dose twice on ON days. As for the other questions, I am still searching for my answers... and learning a lot!

Read about the hyperdrol and mass fx stack which seems pretty tasty. I wonder could I even do 4 weeks pulsing havoc, 8 weeks mass fx/hyperdrol and then 4 weeks pulsing havoc again? This would be another option but I gather it will only work if they do not interfere with each other. maybe someone can shed some light on this as to the safety of this mammoth 16 week program. Afterall health comes first. If breaks are needed could you tell me when. Am I right in saying if this 16 week program is viable that I shoud not bother with "Restore" on OFF days? Seems logical seeing os its a 6-bromo product like Hyperdrol. Cheers again M8s.

the problem with this is that likely you'd use hyperdrol x2 as your test booster for off days during the pulse, and overall thats a little long to use it. could maybe see 4 weeks pulsing havoc, 4 weeks massfx/hdx2, then 4 weeks pulsing havoc then 4 weeks massfx solo.

 

[mcbeets]

ok guys im new to the whole PH thing and i have some questions..
how would Bold 200 work?
what would i use for PCT?? reversitol?
and could i pulse this working out 4 days a week for about 3 weeks?
thanks guys.

 

[captaincrunch]

Thanks Easy thats a good idea. Nice to hear advice from you as I have read few things you have said already and you do make a lot of sense. ONe thing I dont understand is why Mass FX solo at the end without the Hyperdrol? What are the problems associated with using hyperdrol for more than 4 weeks and is there anything else I need to watch out for?

If the 16 week programme you just suggested is safe then I will go for it but of course I won't try anything unless I understand it first