How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[fightbackhxc]

I understand I am probably not going to sway any decisions here on a forum but I think its good when people can inform each other on things. Even if your not a christian, you could still benefit from being educated on its contents.

 

[Dadof2]

Yes they would. Sure. Indeed, I find it interesting how once someone makes sense when talking about religion the followers of one change the subject or go to the you have no faith. And thats a run on sentence for you...

What makes you think that anything you said in your post makes sense in the first place?


Lets look at this gem:


"I think one should follow a philosophy of life and death, so that one may choose what is right and wrong for one's self."


How would this work in reality? Do you think that religionless societies haven't existed before? I assure you that they have, and I also assure you that you wouldn't want to live in one. Most people, atheist included, enjoy the Western Christian tradition that they live in. For instance: Equality does not exist in nature, the idea that we are all equal comes directly from Christian tradition. Which brings me to this:

"Hopefully we all choose to live rightously"

Since everyone in your scenario lives according to their own personal definition of righteousness then who decides what is righteous behavior vs what is wicked behavior?

 

[AlbinoRhino44]

In that, I didn's say that one can't follow a religion. I said they should employ a philosophy, a religion can go along with that as well. I believe that to be the best approach. Like diet and cardio. together. Being force-fed some BS from some guy that he read in some book and taking every word of it means you are brain dead and will follow anything. I'm just saying followers should be open minded and find what orks for them, not what someone tells them to do.

I can care less how people live thier lives, I'm not trying to convert anyone. I was raised christian and know the teachings, i just dont agree with all the hypocrisy that is abundant in the followers of religion. We can continue to argure if we must, but i'm pretty much done with this mess.

 

[DR.D]

I like how Dr.D has that "the lord is a sheild to those who beileve" as his sig. That kinda sums up all religion. All who are afraid of death follow a faith, and adopt all the bullshot that comes with their respective "great book". Its a total package, some jackass says that you have to believe everything and anything you disagree with, well, you don't anymore if you want to be a part of this following buddy! Thats ****. I think one should follow a philosophy of life and death, so that one may choose what is right and wrong for one's self. Bc peter and paul can't tell me ****, who are they? humans. we are all created in gods likeness, and we are all equal and have free will? then guess what, my brain works as a standalone, and we should all choose to live live on our own terms. Hopefully we all choose to live rightously, but we all have options and can do as we please.

To Zero V, stop lying and hiding behind your religions tenants: with your point of view you are not a great christrian. you arent even trying. Just admit that and you can take lying off your list or mortal sins, and be that much better for it, with that much less work to do.

And to those that want to "spread the word" to all, is that like the crusades too? like jihad? people so regularly like to point a finger at one faith while ignoring the exact same tenat within their own faith. be objective, be human, don't be the everbelieving in bull**** robot that many have become.

Perhaps you're making the same mistake as most other atheists? Religion and God are not synonymous. Religion is just somebody's version of who they think god is or should be, and it must be analyzed to pick out any gems from the political BS. The chip on your shoulder seems futile and misdirected though. Lose the chip and open your mind, friend. It's not about church, it's not about religion, it's not about stupid arguments we used to have with our parents or our residual anger at them, it's about Truth, which is universal and not subject to error or opinion. Your anger is legitimate IMO, but nonetheless misappropriated. I agree with your philosophy though, if I'm reading your words right: test everything, compose your own theories, take responsibility for YOUR decisions, but your misappropriations have you trapped in a prison of your own erroneous precepts and your anger is blind.

I can tell you are a smart man, though you have become embittered at institutionalize hypocrisy. Subsequently, you have lost sight of this truth due to a generalization between God and religion. Things are not always as they seem in this existence. It's sad, but you may not find the whole answer at church. That's NOT to say you can't derive some useful information from church, if you can lose that chip on your shoulder.

 

[DR.D]

Care to back your assertion that "all of the Bible's prophecies have been literal (and came true)"? Cause, like, I'm pretty sure a literal interpretation of much of the Old Testament went out the window with the discovery of dinosaur bones.

I'm not sure whether the rest of the Bible is factually accurate or not, and frankly its factual accuracy is irrelevant compared to the central spiritual messages of the New Testament. That the irrelevant details are emphasized over the message is the primary reason I have little respect for Mormons, Evangelicals, and other Christians who push their beliefs (which often miss the entire point of their faith to begin with) on others.

Yeah, ok, but so what? If you acknowledge that you can't quantitate the accuracy either, then what are you really arguing for anyway? You have jumped to a lot of conclusions. I have a big collection of fossils and dino bones, I was planning to be a paleontologist as a kid! Who told you that the prior existence of other civilizations and species wasn't compatible with the Bible? And why did you believe them when they told you that, lol?! The Bible doesn't exclude reality, you just think it does because you've generalized it with somebody's foolish interpretation of it.

 

[DR.D]

Right ON D, Where you been hiding Brother, as god as my wittness you have been on my mind everytime I get on here. I hope all is going well for you, its good to see you.:jester:

I'm good my brotha, and appreciate you keeping me in your thoughts and prayers! Just living and learning. Oh, and working too of course. I hope you and yours have been thriving as well, God bless.

 

[suncloud]

That being said, we will all die, and that's the only absolute given in this world

you forgot taxes

 

[AE14]

Yeah, ok, but so what? If you acknowledge that you can't quantitate the accuracy either, then what are you really arguing for anyway? You have jumped to a lot of conclusions. I have a big collection of fossils and dino bones, I was planning to be a paleontologist as a kid! Who told you that the prior existence of other civilizations and species wasn't compatible with the Bible? And why did you believe them when they told you that, lol?! The Bible doesn't exclude reality, you just think it does because you've generalized it with somebody's foolish interpretation of it.

Hey D, you know I couldnt leave this thread alone Hope you are well my friend.

To address what you were responding to, I believe he was referring to the age of hte earth as is referenced in the OT, which of course we all know is a fallacy. The earth is not 6000 years old, and in fact is much older.

Either way, I think when looking at retranslated (numerously) ancient texts like the OT and NT, they need to be viewed as stories and thoughts and not literal events. Otherwise, many of the things leave holes big enough for trucks to drive through.

 

[DR.D]

No offense but most christians do not live as if they believe in Christianity.

Suicide bomber muslims believe if they suicide bomb they will go to heaven and get 1000 virgins. So they do the ultimate sacrifice for their God.

If christians really believed they would not go to heaven they wouldn't have pre-marital relations, cuss, drink, etc. etc.

I believe I will die if I jump off a 20 story building so I don't jump off 20 story buildings. Being cast in to a lake of fire is 1000000000000 times worse than death. If you TRULY believed that would happen to you for sinning you would follow the bible to a T.

Good post! You know Jesus himself hated religion too? He said the tax collectors and prostitutes had a better qualification for heaven than the religious men, lol. If that doesn't show you how cool God is, then you just don't wanna get it bro. He literally, physically busted up the commodity rackets going on in the temple, where greedy business men were exploiting the poor and over charging them to worship.

God still says that "all things" are lawful though. That's a matter of common experience to everyone. It's called free will, but you ignore the consequences at your own expense obviously (like your 20 story building example.) This universe is ordered, and operates by cause and effect. You can have pre-marital relations, cuss, and drink, but not all things are profitable! If you get AIDS from pre-marital relations, if you get busted in the mouth for popping off and cussing the wrong guy, if you destroy your liver with booze, who's fault is that since you knew the risk and did it anyway? A good parent will try to warn you first, right? God is only trying to instruct you how the system works best, how to seek wisdom and avoid foolishness, he's not just imposing injunctions to be a jerk. You can go get drunk tonight (it's lawful), but if you wake up dehydrated with a headache tomorrow and miss work (not profitable), then don't blame God, ya know? It doesn't say you have to be perfect in the Bible (it states that nobody is actually), it doesn't commend perfection. It commends those who seek truth, and recommends you pursue wisdom over foolish things.

 

[suncloud]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5vgpmbd9bA"]YouTube - Family guy[/ame]

we can hope that's truly their fate

 

[DR.D]

Hey D, you know I couldnt leave this thread alone Hope you are well my friend.

To address what you were responding to, I believe he was referring to the age of hte earth as is referenced in the OT, which of course we all know is a fallacy. The earth is not 6000 years old, and in fact is much older.

Either way, I think when looking at retranslated (numerously) ancient texts like the OT and NT, they need to be viewed as stories and thoughts and not literal events. Otherwise, many of the things leave holes big enough for trucks to drive through.

Hey there! I'm good, how about you my man?

Yes sir, I agree with your assertion. Anytime that allegory, parables, analogies, etc are not strictly apparent, then the Bible should be taken literally to avoid misinterpretations. At least until you can understand it otherwise. In this case, I am aware of the decay chains of radionuclides and see the fossil evidence so it appears the Earth is quite old indeed, with many civilizations preceding ours. The Bible actually supports this if you read it carefully. For example, Genesis 1:28 reads... "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it." The word replenish means to refill, and clearly admits that something was already there before us, otherwise it would say 'fill' instead of 'refill'. Man was replacing something. Dinosaurs and possibly other races we have not yet defined existed here before us, I see no reason to conclude otherwise. Preachers who tell people the Earth is only 6,000 years old are doing Christianity a serious disservice, and confusing many. I know they have good intentions in many cases, so I will not judge the error, but it is an error nonetheless and turns-off a lot of intellectuals to further consider the possibilities of Christ. That's my whole point in this thread, religion frustrates me too! The fact is that this kind of thing only negates the reliability of the church though, not the Bible or God necessarily.

 

[DR.D]

Invalid Link Removed

we can hope that's truly their fate

LMAO!! Shoulda read the fine print, huh?

 

[somewhatgifted]

Good post! You know Jesus himself hated religion too? He said the tax collectors and prostitutes had a better qualification for heaven than the religious men, lol. If that doesn't show you how cool God is, then you just don't wanna get it bro. He literally, physically busted up the commodity rackets going on in the temple, where greedy business men were exploiting the poor and over charging them to worship.

God still says that "all things" are lawful though. That's a matter of common experience to everyone. It's called free will, but you ignore the consequences at your own expense obviously (like your 20 story building example.) This universe is ordered, and operates by cause and effect. You can have pre-marital relations, cuss, and drink, but not all things are profitable! If you get AIDS from pre-marital relations, if you get busted in the mouth for popping off and cussing the wrong guy, if you destroy your liver with booze, who's fault is that since you knew the risk and did it anyway? A good parent will try to warn you first, right? God is only trying to instruct you how the system works best, how to seek wisdom and avoid foolishness, he's not just imposing injunctions to be a jerk. You can go get drunk tonight (it's lawful), but if you wake up dehydrated with a headache tomorrow and miss work (not profitable), then don't blame God, ya know? It doesn't say you have to be perfect in the Bible (it states that nobody is actually), it doesn't commend perfection. It commends those who seek truth, and recommends you pursue wisdom over foolish things.

The eloquence and truth of this post is much appreciated.

 

[AE14]

Hey there! I'm good, how about you my man?

Yes sir, I agree with your assertion. Anytime that allegory, parables, analogies, etc are not strictly apparent, then the Bible should be taken literally to avoid misinterpretations. At least until you can understand it otherwise. In this case, I am aware of the decay chains of radionuclides and see the fossil evidence so it appears the Earth is quite old indeed, with many civilizations preceding ours. The Bible actually supports this if you read it carefully. For example, Genesis 1:28 reads... "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it." The word replenish means to refill, and clearly admits that something was already there before us, otherwise it would say 'fill' instead of 'refill'. Man was replacing something. Dinosaurs and possibly other races we have not yet defined existed here before us, I see no reason to conclude otherwise. Preachers who tell people the Earth is only 6,000 years old are doing Christianity a serious disservice, and confusing many. I know they have good intentions in many cases, so I will not judge the error, but it is an error nonetheless and turns-off a lot of intellectuals to further consider the possibilities of Christ. That's my whole point in this thread, religion frustrates me too! The fact is that this kind of thing only negates the reliability of the church though, not the Bible or God necessarily.

I am with you 100%, I am a firm believer that there were many other civilizations on this planet before ours became what it is. Hell, look at the records of the Ancient Mesopotamians and Egyptians, and where they claim to come from.

Also, I agree to that (in this case) many christians are there own worst enemies. As an example, Natty T here at AM, and how ridiculous and closed minded he sounds. Very sad

 

[AlbinoRhino44]

To Dr. D

I am not mad about religion. I say to each their own, i'm really not here to argue about it. I don't have the mentioned chip on my shoulder, as i follow my beliefs and let anyone else follow their's, God willing. I am not an athiest btw either. Just for a few corrections.

I am done arguing the religion point though. And your reputation precedes you on this board as a respected and educated member. I just wanted to clear those few things up, and look forward to learning more from you in the future, as i have browsing the board.

 

[DEADn]

No offense but most christians do not live as if they believe in Christianity.

Suicide bomber muslims believe if they suicide bomb they will go to heaven and get 1000 virgins. So they do the ultimate sacrifice for their God.

If christians really believed they would not go to heaven they wouldn't have pre-marital relations, cuss, drink, etc. etc.

I believe I will die if I jump off a 20 story building so I don't jump off 20 story buildings. Being cast in to a lake of fire is 1000000000000 times worse than death. If you TRULY believed that would happen to you for sinning you would follow the bible to a T.

70% of christians, in America really don't know what the gospel is. They think it is what most people seem to think it is. If they are good they are going to heaven. Really? Where does that message come from? I never found that in the bible.

It isn't totally fair to say all christians are hypocrites but it sure is hard to find good ones. I think it is because the bad ones give off more stench and make more noise that they are awful then the good ones do and our soulish senses are desensitized to it. Really a shame.

 

[DR.D]

To Dr. D

I am not mad about religion. I say to each their own, i'm really not here to argue about it. I don't have the mentioned chip on my shoulder, as i follow my beliefs and let anyone else follow their's, God willing. I am not an athiest btw either. Just for a few corrections.

I am done arguing the religion point though. And your reputation precedes you on this board as a respected and educated member. I just wanted to clear those few things up, and look forward to learning more from you in the future, as i have browsing the board.

Then God bless you, Rhino! And please forgive if I was presumptuous. I get passionate about things too, and fail to express myself properly, I'm sure. You are a wise and gracious man.

 

[fightbackhxc]

70% of christians, in America really don't know what the gospel is. They think it is what most people seem to think it is. If they are good they are going to heaven. Really? Where does that message come from? I never found that in the bible.

It isn't totally fair to say all christians are hypocrites but it sure is hard to find good ones. I think it is because the bad ones give off more stench and make more noise that they are awful then the good ones do and our soulish senses are desensitized to it. Really a shame.

Well any more the term "christians" just gets tossed around to anyone who might attend church once a month or take communion once a month. To be a christian is to follow Christ. Once again not trying to judge anyone but you will now a christian by their love and acts no matter how they fail at chasing christ.

 

[JDK5386]

You seem to be trying to prove Faith through things of this world. Earthly knowledge is very different than spirtual knowledge. We are more spirit than Flesh.

No, I'm not. I'm saying that there's no need for faith if you have no doubt. Hence how I don't see how "confidently knowing" and faith are reconciliable.

 

[DR.D]

No, I'm not. I'm saying that there's no need for faith if you have no doubt. Hence how I don't see how "confidently knowing" and faith are reconciliable.

Do you believe in intuition? There is a way of "knowing" something confidently, without knowing how you know it. By very definition, intuition is a valid insight, though it transcends logical deduction.

Faith is defined in the dictionary as 'a firm belief in something for which there is no proof'. The Bible has a similar definition, that faith is the evidence of things unseen. Even though you have no idea how you gained the insight, there is evidence that it did in fact occur and that can't be refuted, even in the absence of understanding.

You can change the words around if you like, they still mean the same though. Faith substantiates itself, it's not a blind belief as many suppose. God doesn't say "just trust me" and not help you out along the way. If you ask for proof, He gives it to you. Prayer facilitates that communication.

 

[AlbinoRhino44]

70% of christians, in America really don't know what the gospel is. They think it is what most people seem to think it is. If they are good they are going to heaven. Really? Where does that message come from? I never found that in the bible.

It isn't totally fair to say all christians are hypocrites but it sure is hard to find good ones. I think it is because the bad ones give off more stench and make more noise that they are awful then the good ones do and our soulish senses are desensitized to it. Really a shame.

I agree with the second part of this statment. It seems that those who say they follow a religion, then go on to create a stir get more attention than those that actually do a better job following a faith.

And Dr. D no worries my friend, faith/religion is a complicated matter and to judge it at first glance, happens all too often.

 

[BoyFromAus]

I have total faith in god as well as spirituality and thank god for this life i've been given. don't ask me why or how....

But let's assume there is a right path. Let's assume this path will lead me to god and enlightenment and to heaven etc.etc..... why should i follow this path?

This path to me just seems to be greed driven except rather than wanting material wealth, we're wanting spiritual wealth or some other form of wealth. None the less, it's GREED DRIVEN.

 

[fightbackhxc]

I have total faith in god as well as spirituality and thank god for this life i've been given. don't ask me why or how....

But let's assume there is a right path. Let's assume this path will lead me to god and enlightenment and to heaven etc.etc..... why should i follow this path?

This path to me just seems to be greed driven except rather than wanting material wealth, we're wanting spiritual wealth or some other form of wealth. None the less, it's GREED DRIVEN.

Its not greedy to want eternal life, God has called us to him and has promised us eternal life to those who follow him. Its a gift.

 

[Caferacer]

I agree with the second part of this statment. It seems that those who say they follow a religion, then go on to create a stir get more attention than those that actually do a better job following a faith.

And Dr. D no worries my friend, faith/religion is a complicated matter and to judge it at first glance, happens all too often.

Because people who follow religion for the right reasons aren't vocal about it.

Religion is supposed to be a relationship between you and a higher power; whatever god or entity that is, is entirely up to the person. If you really value that kind of thing, then you aren't vocal because of a few reasons:

1) Being vocal about it doesn't change your relationship with your religion.

2) You realize that it's a personal thing, and most people really don't care what you think.

Therefore the bible thumpers that are hooting and hollaring are the only ones you see.

This is why tolerance used to be such an awesome thing. Long as you are trying to find salvation/peace/contentment some way you should be good to go with whatever religion so long as you don't get in a pissing match.

Kind of like riding a motorcycle. I ride a street fighter, but hogs, harleys, rice rockets, squids, they all wave to me. They acknowledge that although they might not want my bike, we are all riding for the same reason. Religion should be the same way.

 

[fightbackhxc]

Actually religion and relationship are complete opposites.

 

[Caferacer]

Actually religion and relationship are complete opposites.

Then why so much talk from thumpers about people's 'relationship' with god and jesus?

"Jesus loves you" sounds an awful lot like relationship talk to me.

 

[fightbackhxc]

Well religion is when people get too tied up with the legalistic views of Christianity. My best example of this would be the Pharisees in the bible. Religion in a sense is binding, and people try way to hard to live by those legalistic views rather than living by Jesus and grace.

 

[Caferacer]

Well religion is when people get too tied up with the legalistic views of Christianity. My best example of this would be the Pharisees in the bible. Religion in a sense is binding, and people try way to hard to live by those legalistic views rather than living by Jesus and grace.

I can agree on that... however you didn't say anything towards my remarks of needing tolerance.

 

[fightbackhxc]

Ok sorry, can you rephrase the question on tolerance again?

 

[DEADn]

This poll about praying a prayer for Jesus to come into your heart. Do you understand that this isn't making anyone a christian? It is more a novelty of the church for what they want to be salvation.

Salvation starts with realizing a person is a sinner. Do you know what a sinner is?

Then a person has to repent of his sins. Both of these are easier said then done. The Commandments are a good starting point for knowing this. Can anyone keep any of them? any hands???

Then a person must Ask God to clean his soul out and fill Him with God Spirit.

Finally, this person should show that God has come into his life by showing a changed heart.
This is called being Born again. Born into this physical world and then you are born spiritual because sin is death.

A poll gives a false sense of salvation.

 

[BUCKNUTS]

Hey there! I'm good, how about you my man?

Yes sir, I agree with your assertion. Anytime that allegory, parables, analogies, etc are not strictly apparent, then the Bible should be taken literally to avoid misinterpretations. At least until you can understand it otherwise. In this case, I am aware of the decay chains of radionuclides and see the fossil evidence so it appears the Earth is quite old indeed, with many civilizations preceding ours. The Bible actually supports this if you read it carefully. For example, Genesis 1:28 reads... "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it." The word replenish means to refill, and clearly admits that something was already there before us, otherwise it would say 'fill' instead of 'refill'. Man was replacing something. Dinosaurs and possibly other races we have not yet defined existed here before us, I see no reason to conclude otherwise. Preachers who tell people the Earth is only 6,000 years old are doing Christianity a serious disservice, and confusing many. I know they have good intentions in many cases, so I will not judge the error, but it is an error nonetheless and turns-off a lot of intellectuals to further consider the possibilities of Christ. That's my whole point in this thread, religion frustrates me too! The fact is that this kind of thing only negates the reliability of the church though, not the Bible or God necessarily.

Ah yes the "gap theory" or Ruin-Reconstruction interpretation as it is called which theorizes a huge "gap" of time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. The theory itself is quite old, older than Darwinian evolutionary thought. I have vacillated on this so many times personally. I have read some convincing articles that postulate that the last ice age corresponds exactly to the biblical time frame of Genesis chapter 1. However if this theory is true how do we reconcile it to the rest of scripture which clearly teaches that death is the result of the rebellion of Satan and Adam's first sin, and not something that God created during the time period that gap theorists believe exists between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. It is interesting but I'm not so sure it can be supported biblically. As to decay chains of radionuclides, how can we be sure that the decay has been constant for the alleged billions of years? How many billions is up to now? I can't keep track it changes so often. Even in the laboratory, beta decay rates have been sped up by many orders of magnitude when atoms are stripped of electrons. Also methodological naturalism assumes that processes God used to create the world are the same processes he uses to sustain it and we can't know that. These are fascinating subjects and I believe all Christians should study them and as scripture says 1 Peter 3:15 Always be ready to give an answer to everyone who asks you for a reason regarding the hope that is in you, yet answer with gentleness and reverence. May God bless you all.

 

[FATGUY]

Why does everyone get offended when someone cares enough to tell you about Salvation? You'll find out the truth sooner or later. I ask you find out sooner.

 

[D3vildog]

Why does everyone get offended when someone cares enough to tell you about Salvation? You'll find out the truth sooner or later. I ask you find out sooner.

Because your salvation may not be the same as theirs. They may be following their religion the way they should, and are very proud of that fact. Then someone else comes in and says they are wrong? How would you feel? The least you can do is show a little respect, now if they are throwing it in your face as well. By all means, but a lot of people don't and still get hassle about it.

Just accept that fact, be a good person. That is all the worlds needs right now.

 

[BUCKNUTS]

Why does everyone get offended when someone cares enough to tell you about Salvation? You'll find out the truth sooner or later. I ask you find out sooner.

It is rather curious how immediate and aggressive these attacks come when you post up anything Christian related here at AM. It seems to me that if you don't want to know how to get to heaven then why open up and read the post? You have the freedom to move on to the next thread just as the OP had every right to start this thread without having to deal with all this hate and negativity.

 

[Dadof2]

Because people who follow religion for the right reasons aren't vocal about it.

Religion is supposed to be a relationship between you and a higher power; whatever god or entity that is, is entirely up to the person. If you really value that kind of thing, then you aren't vocal because of a few reasons:

1) Being vocal about it doesn't change your relationship with your religion.

2) You realize that it's a personal thing, and most people really don't care what you think.

Therefore the bible thumpers that are hooting and hollaring are the only ones you see.

This is why tolerance used to be such an awesome thing. Long as you are trying to find salvation/peace/contentment some way you should be good to go with whatever religion so long as you don't get in a pissing match.

Kind of like riding a motorcycle. I ride a street fighter, but hogs, harleys, rice rockets, squids, they all wave to me. They acknowledge that although they might not want my bike, we are all riding for the same reason. Religion should be the same way.

I like this post. I don't think that it is effective, or even Christlike to try and coerce someone else to do anything. I am by definition a Christian. I believe that I was born into spiritual death, and that because of the death and resurrection of Jesus I obtained spiritual Life by putting my trust in Him and His sacrifice. I believe that because I trust in Jesus for this Life, that I have a personal and unbreakable relationship with God.

Now how would I coerce someone else to believe that? I cannot. Whether someone rejects or accepts Christ is a personal decision that every person who hears the Gospel has to make on their own.

Jesus was crucified in the company of two other men. One man felt as though he lived in such a way that he would surely not be worthy to see God and felt as though Jesus was his only hope. The other man laughed, scoffed, and thought that his crucifixion companions were both nuts. Jesus did not try and convince or coerce either one of them, but one believed and one did not. This same process has happened millions of times to millions of people in the past two thousand years, and to this day not one human has convinced another human into moving into either direction.

All I can do as an extremely flawed man is trust that God will use me as He sees fit.


Tolerance is important, and tolerance cuts both ways. Live and let live.

 

[DEADn]

Why does everyone get offended when someone cares enough to tell you about Salvation? You'll find out the truth sooner or later. I ask you find out sooner.

Not sure what post this actually refers to but I will tell you that there are 2 3 ways to tell someone about salvation. There is wrong way which is telling someone to say this prayer and Jesus comes in. Very shallow. There is the right way but in the wrong tone and then there is the right way in the right tone.

Some people do get offended when someone tells them about salvation. Human nature. People do not want to be told their are sinners. It is the nature of sin in us. Yet, you gotta figure, when you are spreading the salvation message, are you really giving the salvation message? Telling someone to just say that prayer is not the salvation message.

I don't get offended it at but it does annoy me that it really misses the point. It makes a false conversion. Sit back and think about it.

 

[DmitryWI]

Why does everyone get offended when someone cares enough to tell you about Salvation? You'll find out the truth sooner or later. I ask you find out sooner.

IMO, people get offended because you're pushing your truth on them. You're just missing the point about the "truth". Again this is your truth and nothing more.
I think this is the hardest thing for people to understand. Just because you believe in something doesn't make it the ultimate truth, it's just still your truth, what you believe.
IMO, if religion was true teaching of God, there would be one and only religion. But there are hundreds if not thousands of them. Which one is the right one?

 

[somewhatgifted]

IMO, people get offended because you're pushing your truth on them. You're just missing the point about the "truth". Again this is your truth and nothing more.
I think this is the hardest thing for people to understand. Just because you believe in something doesn't make it the ultimate truth, it's just still your truth, what you believe.
IMO, if religion was true teaching of God, there would be one and only religion. But there are hundreds if not thousands of them. Which one is the right one?

All of them and none of them at the same time.

Whatever speaks to you, motivates you to be better or explains things in a light that allows you to understand yourself will lead you to a better place.
If 20 people seen a movie they would have 20 different ways to explain that movie, none of them are more right considering the subjective nature.
Your truth and mine may differ all that matters is the fact that we are both looking.

What ever it is that makes you feel fulfilled, happy and loving is what is right for YOU.
Telling someone they are a sinner doesn't make them want to be better, telling someone they aren't following the right religion doesn't make them happier and treating someone like you know better doesn't make anyone smarter.

 

[DmitryWI]

All of them and none of them at the same time.

Whatever speaks to you, motivates you to be better or explains things in a light that allows you to understand yourself will lead you to a better place.
If 20 people seen a movie they would have 20 different ways to explain that movie, none of them are more right considering the subjective nature.
Your truth and mine may differ all that matters is the fact that we are both looking.

What ever it is that makes you feel fulfilled, happy and loving is what is right for YOU.
Telling someone they are a sinner doesn't make them want to be better, telling someone they aren't following the right religion doesn't make them happier and treating someone like you know better doesn't make anyone smarter.

Exactly! This is what I've been trying to explain many many times before. I do believe in God, but not in Bible or any kind of religion. Simply because it's not the God I know religion teaches about.

 

[somewhatgifted]

Exactly! This is what I've been trying to explain many many times before. I do believe in God, but not in Bible or any kind of religion. Simply because it's not the God I know religion teaches about.

This was one of the main points of my lengthy posts on the first or second page.

 

[fightbackhxc]

Exactly! This is what I've been trying to explain many many times before. I do believe in God, but not in Bible or any kind of religion. Simply because it's not the God I know religion teaches about.

I am assuming you meant you believe in a God not the christian God? Otherwise you cant believe in God and not believe in the bible.

 

[NattyT]

Ah yes the "gap theory" or Ruin-Reconstruction interpretation as it is called which theorizes a huge "gap" of time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. The theory itself is quite old, older than Darwinian evolutionary thought. I have vacillated on this so many times personally. I have read some convincing articles that postulate that the last ice age corresponds exactly to the biblical time frame of Genesis chapter 1. However if this theory is true how do we reconcile it to the rest of scripture which clearly teaches that death is the result of the rebellion of Satan and Adam's first sin, and not something that God created during the time period that gap theorists believe exists between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. It is interesting but I'm not so sure it can be supported biblically. As to decay chains of radionuclides, how can we be sure that the decay has been constant for the alleged billions of years? How many billions is up to now? I can't keep track it changes so often. Even in the laboratory, beta decay rates have been sped up by many orders of magnitude when atoms are stripped of electrons. Also methodological naturalism assumes that processes God used to create the world are the same processes he uses to sustain it and we can't know that. These are fascinating subjects and I believe all Christians should study them and as scripture says 1 Peter 3:15 Always be ready to give an answer to everyone who asks you for a reason regarding the hope that is in you, yet answer with gentleness and reverence. May God bless you all.

Bucknuts I have done a small amount of research as well on the gap and what I came up with is this. In Genesis 1:2 The two words WITHOUT FORM and VOID exspress one concept (CHAOS). The earth had been reduced to this state, it was not the way God had first created it. The word Darkness in the Bible is a potent Word for evil and wrong. The word DEEP is a term for the secret places of the waters. All these things in Gen 1:2 potray chaos, disaster and devestation. Then from ruin God brings forth an orderly creation.

Now from what I have heard the battle between Lucifer and God took place befor the Earth in its form now took place. I have read that there was a race of people befor and the angels were in contact with these people or beings. Lucifer being a special angel was to teach the beings about God and the Heavens, the people would worsjip God and lucifer became Jealous and wated the worship for him self. Lucifer was created to magnify God because of the way god made him. Lucifer then decides to try and take the throne of god with the help of the rest of the angels that were on the earth, instead of continuing to teach the people to do right they became evil and wicked and then the battle began. Then we know the rest of the story, lucifer was cast out of heave and down to the earth.

In the gospel Jesus describes the battle when he states that (Luke 10:18) I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. The source that I got this info from belives that this created the distruction of the earth. He also states that the Earth has been created many times.

After the Creation of Adam and Eve God instructs them to subdue the Earth and to have dominion over it. Of course To subdue is to bring into bondage, so there was someone or somthing that Adam and Eve were to conquor. We already know that satan was present on the earth because he was present in the Garden. Perhaps satan may have had a race of people that were already here as well, there were many people that God instructed his chosen people to not mate and cohabitate with. By God telling Adam and Eve To multiply and fill the Earth and then Subdue it makes you wonder. Obveously the angels could mate with humans because Genesis speaks about it later on. These things could have been going on befor Genesis 1:1. You then began to bring Fallen Angels and Demons into the Picture. They say this is where you get a lot of greek stories from that talk about the demigods and diffrent creatures they used to write stories about. This may even explain aliens and diffrent things that go on untill this day.

 

[fightbackhxc]

It will be some awesome to get to heaven and figure out the true stories wont it? Not saying that your hypothesis is not true its just wont it be cool to know everything?

 

[AE14]

I am assuming you meant you believe in a God not the christian God? Otherwise you cant believe in God and not believe in the bible.

I dont know if I agree here. I do not think you can state that someone cannot believe in god and thus cannot believe in the bible. They are not mutually exclusive

 

[fightbackhxc]

I dont know if I agree here. I do not think you can state that someone cannot believe in god and thus cannot believe in the bible. They are not mutually exclusive

I PERSONALLY don't believe you can call yourself a christian and not believe in the bible. The word WAS god and the word was WITH god. That is why I asked christian God.

Just my opinion brother.

 

[Dadof2]

I PERSONALLY don't believe you can call yourself a christian and not believe in the bible. The word WAS god and the word was WITH god. That is why I asked christian God.

Just my opinion brother.

The Word in that passage of John 1 refers to Jesus Christ, not the Bible:


1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.

John 1 is about the Deity of Christ. The Word of God, i.e. the Christian Bible, had not been in existence when this verse was written.

 

[panther77]

I PERSONALLY don't believe you can call yourself a christian and not believe in the bible. The word WAS god and the word was WITH god. That is why I asked christian God.

Just my opinion brother.

I think what he is saying is God is not exclusive to the christian god, there are a countless number of gods throughout history.

Also i think it is close minded of people to not take into consideration scientific evidence and instead feel that THEY are the "enlightened ones" and that everyone else is to an extent ignorant because they don't subscribe to the theories of an age old BOOK... because that is exactly what it is, nothing more, and i find the manner with which most christians approach people who do not think like them offensive, especially for me when in most cases i'm MUCH more intelligent than they will ever dream to be. IMO religion is a necessary thing for some people to give their life meaning... but when it starts getting pushed on me then the **** has gone too far... Im done ranting now though lol sorry if i have offended anyone

 

[fightbackhxc]

Panther I couldn't agree with you more about how Christians approach people. For that I am sorry man :/.

Jesus was the Word yes, but now that he has gone I believe the Word is now the bible, the only true authority given to Christians besides Jesus and God.

 

[Dadof2]

I think what he is saying is God is not exclusive to the christian god, there are a countless number of gods throughout history.

Also i think it is close minded of people to not take into consideration scientific evidence and instead feel that THEY are the "enlightened ones" and that everyone else is to an extent ignorant because they don't subscribe to the theories of an age old BOOK... because that is exactly what it is, nothing more, and i find the manner with which most christians approach people who do not think like them offensive, especially for me when in most cases i'm MUCH more intelligent than they will ever dream to be. IMO religion is a necessary thing for some people to give their life meaning... but when it starts getting pushed on me then the **** has gone too far... Im done ranting now though lol sorry if i have offended anyone

I am going to edit this post so that you can see the irony.


Also i think it is close minded of people to not take into consideration personal experience and instead feel that THEY are the "enlightened ones" and that everyone else is to an extent ignorant because they don't subscribe to the theories of String, Darwinism, Big Bang, etc.... because that is exactly what it is, nothing more, and i find the manner with which most atheist approach people who do not think like them offensive, especially for me when in most cases i'm MUCH more intelligent than they will ever dream to be. IMO the need to feel superior to people who do not think like I do is a necessary thing for some people to give their life meaning... but when it starts getting pushed on me then the **** has gone too far... Im done ranting now though lol sorry if i have offended anyone[/QUOTE]


Close mindedness is a problem for people of all belief systems and faiths.

 

[NattyT]

The Word in that passage of John 1 refers to Jesus Christ, not the Bible:


1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.

John 1 is about the Deity of Christ. The Word of God, i.e. the Christian Bible, had not been in existence when this verse was written.

But it does say dadof that He was the word in the flesh. and the entier old testament was about the promise of the messiah that just happend to be jesus.