Homosexual behaviour widespread in animals according to new study

NattyT said:
I was happy in it befor I had even heard from you son. You continue to be happy in your world and the things of it, the world and the things of it are passing away each and everyday. You dont need to warn me, Im headed down a one way street and there aint no turning back. I buried that old man a long time ago, he rotten and decayed, aint no gettin back up for him. But thanks anyway.

And I was not speaking from leviticus, but since you know so much you should try reading Ecclesiastes.
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B5150 said:
You keep missing my point. You are not being persecuted here for "sharing the words of Jesus". You are being persecuted for self righteous preaching and conviction.
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And illiteracy. I have not quoted nor even mentioned The Bible by name up until now, much less quoted from specific books.
 
dsade said:
Or perhaps I am strong enough and clearthinking enough to have seen the moral nd pragmatic conseqences of a society full of that behaviour, applied the principle of reciprocity, and realized beforehnd the disaster that awaited. I am not perfect by any means, but have worked my hardest to mke sure my failing hurt only me.

I have learned frm m mistakes, and still see a concept of god as sperfluous and unecessay, since the same behavioural guidelines can be reached with need of him.

And, for the second time...satin is a fabric.
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God fear and or knowledge does not produce morailty.

Morality does not produce god fear or knowledge.

Plenty of good people don't fear God. Plenty of God fearing people are not good.

Satin is also a latex paint finish.
 
B5150 said:
New New Testament.
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Testament released a new album?

EDIT: I should market a new product...a TEST(imony) BOOSTER!!
 
dsade said:
Or perhaps I am strong enough and clearthinking enough to have seen the moral and pragmatic consequences of a society full of that behaviour, applied the principle of reciprocity, and realized beforehand the disaster that awaited. I am not perfect by any means, but have worked my hardest to make sure my failing hurt only me.

I have learned from my mistakes, and still see a concept of god as superfluous and unnecessary, since the same behavioural guidelines can be reached without need of him.

And, for the second time...satin is a fabric.
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And once agin congradulations on your near perfect state, Im glad you stayed pure until you were married and have never takin anything without asking. Or have never told a single lie to some one or about something. Thats cool that all your mess ups in life have never effected any one else but you. Not a family member, co worker, Freind, or complete stranger. Wow you know I have some one you should meet, you seem to have a lot in common. All the same attributes.

Maybe I should give up what I belive and start up the church of Dsade and follw you. Seems like you have evolved to a much higherstate of exsitince.
 
CDB said:
And illiteracy. I have not quoted nor even mentioned The Bible by name up until now, much less quoted from specific books.
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You did mention leviticus, you said that I was speaking from there. It dosent realy matter.

I apologiz CDB because that was AE14 That had made the refrince to Leviticus.
 
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NattyT said:
And once agin congradulations on your near perfect state, Im glad you stayed pure until you were married and have never takin anything without asking. Or have never told a single lie to some one or about something. Thats cool that all your mess ups in life have never effected any one else but you. Not a family member, co worker, Freind, or complete stranger. Wow you know I have some one you should meet, you seem to have a lot in common. All the same attributes.

Maybe I should give up what I belive and start up the church of Dsade and follw you. Seems like you have evolved to a much higherstate of exsitince.
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Yet another contrdiction between what you pretend to be, and the true bile and hatred inside of you.
 
Mulletsoldier said:
To quote my own moral guideline, The Anchorman:

"You got poop..po..poop..stinky poop coming out of your mouth Ron...poop!"
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I dont understand, whats your maotivation. I was talking to B5150. You kids crack me up. The computer has given people so much confidence these days. Keep up the good work Mullet, what movie you gonna quote next. Ohh what about somthing from the passion of Christ.
 
dsade said:
Yet another contrdiction between what you pretend to be, and the true bile and hatred inside of you.
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What hatred, I gave you a pat on the back for being a good man, I didnt see you responding to B5150 in that manner in his response to you. There is no hatred in me, exspecially because of this. Im sitting here with a smile on my face, I would not alow you or any one on here for that matter to produce that inside of me. Once agin I have more important things going on in my life.

Didnt you say you have never Fornicated or stollen anything. You said that your mess ups in life have not effeted any one but yourself, correct. So where are you coming from.

You know what is funny, is that evry one is cool and civil with each other until I get on here. I start getting cyber stoned soon as I, oh who cares anyway.

For the umteenth time there is no prtending in me bro, I have not waverd or compromised my belif in any way or form. I am very aware that I am under the always watcfull eye of my lord or as you put it, my big brother. You cant tell me what it takes to be what I profess to be, stay in your lane.
 
NattyT said:
What hatred, I gave you a pat on the back for being a good man, I didnt see you responding to B5150 in that manner in his response to you. There is no hatred in me, exspecially because of this. Im sitting here with a smile on my face, I would not alow you or any one on here for that matter to produce that inside of me. Once agin I have more important things going on in my life.

Didnt you say you have never Fornicated or stollen anything. You said that your mess ups in life have not effeted any one but yourself, correct. So where are you coming from.

You know what is funny, is that evry one is a cool qand civil with each other until I get on here. I start getting cyber stoned soon as I, oh who cares anyway.

For the umteenth time there is no prtending in me bro, I have not waverd or compromised my belif in any way or form. I am very aware that I am under the always watcfull eye of my lord or as you put it, my big brother. You cant tell me what it takes to be what I profess to be, stay in your lane.
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Oh that's right...we're all stupid and totally unable to see sarcasm.

i also mentioned that I was not perfect - which apparently you ignored - however my transgressions NEVER entered the state of promiscuity or somehow justifying in my own head that the theft of someone else's property was anything close to acceptable. This was accomplished not based on some Bible-babble - but on examination of moral concepts and justice, smattered with reciprocity, as I mentioned.

You not only admitted taking gleeful part in the practice of theft, and admitted it took some sort of holy 12 step program for you to SToP doing such, but then admitted that you don't regret, because somehow you managed to learn? What have you learned? Apparently nothing.

You are full of hatred and sarcasm - quite the christian, indeed.
 
dsade said:
Oh that's right...we're all stupid and totally unable to see sarcasm.

i also mentioned that I was not perfect - which apparently you ignored - however my transgressions NEVER entered the state of promiscuity or somehow justifying in my own head that the theft of someone else's property was anything close to acceptable. This was accomplished not based on some Bible-babble - but on examination of moral concepts and justice, smattered with reciprocity, as I mentioned.

You not only admitted taking gleeful part in the practice of theft, and admitted it took some sort of holy 12 step program for you to SToP doing such, but then admitted that you don't regret, because somehow you managed to learn? What have you learned? Apparently nothing.

You are full of hatred and sarcasm - quite the christian, indeed.
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Oh well I guess I can be a litle sarcastic at times but I am not the only one, and I dont belive that is being sinfull, just because I poke back when being poked. All in all I havent direspected any one, on the other hand I have been and thats fine I truly dont care.

Your putting words in my mouth I never said I needed God to be considerd a good law abiding citizen. We all know right from wrong. I decided to stop what I was doing I could have continued if I chose. I put those things out there because I chose to, like I said Im not ashame and you can think of me as you wish. I dont know you and will never meet you my attention span on this stops when I push the power button on my monitor.

Continue to belive in what you belive in, the unknown god, Paul found that when he was doing ministry some where clos to Greece, any how. Forgive me for my sarcasim but I have seen plenty of your post were you are belittleing and talking down to people as if you superior or elite. Give me a break Dsade.

I am a Christan, I am a living sacrifice and I do ,my best everyday. Those that know me and are around me can testify to that. You on the other hand are some one that I waste a little time with while on this computer. You have know Idea what your talking about when it comes to me.

I could call you a occult devil worshiping in a state of ignorance satinist based on your views and the things you have said. But that would noy be apropriate would it, you are what you are who am I to say. Just like you have no power or authority to tell me what I am.
 
NattyT said:
Oh well I guess I can be a litle sarcastic at times but I am not the only one, and I dont belive that is being sinfull, just because I poke back when being poked. All in all I havent direspected any one, on the other hand I have been and thats fine I truly dont care.

Your putting words in my mouth I never said I needed God to be considerd a good law abiding citizen. We all know right from wrong. I decided to stop what I was doing I could have continued if I chose. I put those things out there because I chose to, like I said Im not ashame and you can think of me as you wish. I dont know you and will never meet you my attention span on this stops when I push the power button on my monitor.

Continue to belive in what you belive in, the unknown god, Paul found that when he was doing ministry some where clos to Greece, any how. Forgive me for my sarcasim but I have seen plenty of your post were you are belittleing and talking down to people as if you superior or elite. Give me a break Dsade.

I am a Christan, I am a living sacrifice and I do ,my best everyday. Those that know me and are around me can testify to that. You on the other hand are some one that I waste a little time with while on this computer. You have know Idea what your talking about when it comes to me.

I could call you a occult devil worshiping in a state of ignorance satinist based on your views and the things you have said. But that would noy be apropriate would it, you are what you are who am I to say. Just like you have no power or authority to tell me what I am.
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Do you know how dumb you look when you have been corrected, politely, twice already and continue to make the same error.

Again, satin is a fabric (or as brian pointed out, a latex finish). Show that you give a crap about learning anything, and people might take you seriously.
 
dsade said:
Do you know how dumb you look when you have been corrected, politely, twice already and continue to make the same error.

Again, satin is a fabric (or as brian pointed out, a latex finish). Show that you give a crap about learning anything, and people might take you seriously.
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Its not about being accepted nor do I care. Its fine if I look dumb. Dsade I wish you the best I have to take my children some where so I can not continue to make your day. So youll have to find some one else to play with. I love you and have a blessed day.:wave2:
 
NattyT said:
Its not about being accepted nor do I care. Its fine if I look dumb. Dsade I wish you the best I have to take my children some where so I can not continue to make your day. So youll have to find some one else to play with. I love you and have a blessed day.:wave2:
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Take it easy, here Mr. Egomaniac - your influence on my life, happiness, and mood are nil.

I'm attempting to follow a promised I made to myself when I was about 9 years old and first began observing deception masquerading as enllightenment, as well as blatant evasive hypocrisy.

I would take MUCH more pleasure in having clear thinking processes and rationality (not necessarily with the resulting clear rejection of reason, as some in this thread seem capable of both) find victory over ignorance.
 
dsade said:
Take it easy, here Mr. Egomaniac - your influence on my life, happiness, and mood are nil.

I'm attempting to follow a promised I made to myself when I was about 9 years old and first began observing deception masquerading as enllightenment, as well as blatant evasive hypocrisy.

I would take MUCH more pleasure in having clear thinking processes and rationality (not necessarily with the resulting clear rejection of reason, as some in this thread seem capable of both) find victory over ignorance.
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Clear thinking?!? whoa! Sounds like you got it all figured out hoss. :clap2::rolleyes:
 
madds87 said:
Clear thinking?!? whoa! Sounds like you got it all figured out hoss. :clap2::rolleyes:
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More demonstration of that ideal personality of hypocrite? That's a hell of an example/outreach/representation of being "above base behaviours".

It's amazing the people that try to foist fallacy upon fallacy, misinformation upon misinformation, with the only goal to"witness"....well, as mentioned about you are turning off more people than you are reaching - mostly because you are not demonstrating clear thinking ability.

Put it this way, you can actually somewhat have both - clear, rational thinking and faith. Without the clear thinking part, though, you come across very badly and will never have ANY hope of making any impression on anyone that lives at an intellectual level past a 13 year old.
 
dsade said:
Put it this way, you can actually somewhat have both - clear, rational thinking and faith. Without the clear thinking part, though, you come across very badly and will never have ANY hope of making any impression on anyone that lives at an intellectual level past a 13 year old.
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A point many people miss. It's just that faith, by nature and definition, can't intrude into areas where actual knowledge exists. It is by default relegated to the unknown. Is there a God or gods? Who knows, one could have faith either way or doubt. But if one does have faith, trying to rationalize from that to come to a conclusion that is contrary to known reality in another field is just foolish. Such as: the age of the Earth; the reality of evolution; etc.
 
Many of faith fail to recognize that faith, by the very nature of it's definition, does indeed defy logic. It resembles at times, things that are illogical, unreasonable and often possess none to little evidence.

This is a known - that is faith. If it possessed any other charcteristics it would be a contradiction in and of itself.

You cannot defend it against logic and reason and you should not be offended when it is trumped by logic or reason, nor should one offend with it on it's behalf.

EDIT: Likewise people should not offend with and or on the behalf of reason and logic

If you fear reason and logic how strong is your faith? For that matter it should strengthen your faith or at least convict an intelligent person to consider what he believes in.

I believe faith defies logic and reason. That does not make me illogical or unreasonable.

Irrational is another matter. :D

That's my story and I am sticking to it. :)
 
I agree as b5150 has stated, thats why scripture states that Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.

The whole concept is beliving in what isnt able to be explained or even somtimes understood. No man can boast or brag when it comes to faith. Why would God say ok everybody Im real now would you please do as I ask. When you begin to talk about the supernatural you get into somthing that a natural logical science based human being cant define. Nothing or no one can understand the supernatural in a natural state. Thus bringing in the gift of faith to be able to even begin to conceive the thought of a supernatural relm and God.

There is a lot of things that sound good, dont get me wrong but there is still no factual evidence to evolution, the big bang theory, and any other thing that I have read or heard. Now I have evidence that is inside of me and many other belivers that I know, my testimony is my proof.

Now there are still a lot of unknowns and a lot of things that I dont agree with from the past that has to do with religous wars and etc. The roman catholic church was started on a lot of non biblical things. They have adapted diffrent things into there teachings that I dont agree with, but thats there decision. I dont get into denomonation divison and things of that nature. It causes problems and then you start to get that same religous thinking.
 
A just god would say that because that is TRUE freedom of choice.

Here, I exist...now you can truly either embrace or reject me.
 
NattyT said:
I agree as b5150 has stated, thats why scripture states that Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.

The whole concept is beliving in what isnt able to be explained or even somtimes understood. No man can boast or brag when it comes to faith. Why would God say ok everybody Im real now would you please do as I ask. When you begin to talk about the supernatural you get into somthing that a natural logical science based human being cant define. Nothing or no one can understand the supernatural in a natural state. Thus bringing in the gift of faith to be able to even begin to conceive the thought of a supernatural relm and God.
There is a lot of things that sound good, dont get me wrong but there is still no factual evidence to evolution, the big bang theory, and any other thing that I have read or heard. Now I have evidence that is inside of me and many other belivers that I know, my testimony is my proof.

Now there are still a lot of unknowns and a lot of things that I dont agree with from the past that has to do with religous wars and etc. The roman catholic church was started on a lot of non biblical things. They have adapted diffrent things into there teachings that I dont agree with, but thats there decision. I dont get into denomonation divison and things of that nature. It causes problems and then you start to get that same religous thinking.
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So then you understand why when in an evidence based logical discussion faith based hypothesis are so absurd to others?

Now on the contrary, if this were a faith based discussion logic and reason would be just as absurd.
 
dsade said:
A just god would say that because that is TRUE freedom of choice.

Here, I exist...now you can truly either embrace or reject me.
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Well Dsade then there would not be any need for Faith, any one in there right mind or perhaps not would then try and live there life acording to the word of God. We have a hard enough time embracing our neighbor that we see everyday or a brother or sister.

Along with faith you also receive the holy spirit that will alow you to function in a manner that you would not without it. Its the state of huamnkind that wont allow us to live as God has commandid us to live, ther for we recive the holy spirit.

Even though I belive in God and his Son I still war inside myself, there is a battle inside of me that I can not explain, I have only found the answers in the words of God, this batlle is not just in myself but every living person. A lot of people dont admit the feelings and thoughts they feel every single day, things that we may even despise. I find my self saying what in the heck is that and were did that thought even come from.

The flesh thet we live in has a understanding that it will not live forever and that it only has so much time to induldge and participate in certain pleasures. The bible says the flesh is connected to our minds and this is were the battle is fought, the spirit and soul are seperate. The bible says the mind is a enemy to god, maybe because we try to reason or find proof in our minds, I realy dont know.

God wants us to love him without having to prove himself in a physical since, the love would not be natural. The love would come from the fact that we would be scaerd and did not want to go to hell, because surly if God proved himself then the Devil or satin ( HA HA ) would be real. I understand God not needing to do this, I couldnt imagine being a suprem creator and having to prove and some what beg my creation to do whats right for there own good. That takes away the suprem title and brings me down to a level where I have to reason with you. WAIT I made you, I dont have to do that!

I dont know if you have children but it is the same for myself, in my role as a father I understand God so much better. I expect my children to follow my rules and directions becase I told them to, I hate when my oldest daughter says "why", because I told you so thats why. I dont have to explain anything to her, she has to learn and trust that I have her best in mind.

Somethings we dont want to exspose or children to, I wish I could keep them shelded from the ugly world outside our doors. I cant and I see god feeling the same way but on a much bigger scale, we are headed for self destruction and we can not fix it. With all the advances we have made as a race of people we can not coexist, I mean it dosent help that there are forces that are at work that most people dont belive but I do. There is a evil that exist that can not be understood, a lack of compassion for any one or thing. This evil gets inside of people and makes them do horrendous things. Its wild out here, the media only covers so much.
 
B5150 said:
So then you understand why when in an evidence based logical discussion faith based hypothesis are so absurd to others?

Now on the contrary, if this were a faith based discussion logic and reason would be just as absurd.
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Yes B5150 im trying to be more plesent, I agree. I have gotten in touch with my fimminen side its a softer me.
 
NattyT said:
Well Dsade then there would not be any need for Faith, any one in there right mind or perhaps not would then try and live there life acording to the word of God. We have a hard enough time embracing our neighbor that we see everyday or a brother or sister.

Along with faith you also receive the holy spirit that will alow you to function in a manner that you would not without it. Its the state of huamnkind that wont allow us to live as God has commandid us to live, ther for we recive the holy spirit.

Even though I belive in God and his Son I still war inside myself, there is a battle inside of me that I can not explain, I have only found the answers in the words of God, this batlle is not just in myself but every living person. A lot of people dont admit the feelings and thoughts they feel every single day, things that we may even despise. I find my self saying what in the heck is that and were did that thought even come from.

The flesh thet we live in has a understanding that it will not live forever and that it only has so much time to induldge and participate in certain pleasures. The bible says the flesh is connected to our minds and this is were the battle is fought, the spirit and soul are seperate. The bible says the mind is a enemy to god, maybe because we try to reason or find proof in our minds, I realy dont know.

God wants us to love him without having to prove himself in a physical since, the love would not be natural. The love would come from the fact that we would be scaerd and did not want to go to hell, because surly if God proved himself then the Devil or satin ( HA HA ) would be real. I understand God not needing to do this, I couldnt imagine being a suprem creator and having to prove and some what beg my creation to do whats right for there own good. That takes away the suprem title and brings me down to a level where I have to reason with you. WAIT I made you, I dont have to do that!

I dont know if you have children but it is the same for myself, in my role as a father I understand God so much better. I expect my children to follow my rules and directions becase I told them to, I hate when my oldest daughter says "why", because I told you so thats why. I dont have to explain anything to her, she has to learn and trust that I have her best in mind.

Somethings we dont want to exspose or children to, I wish I could keep them shelded from the ugly world outside our doors. I cant and I see god feeling the same way but on a much bigger scale, we are headed for self destruction and we can not fix it. With all the advances we have made as a race of people we can not coexist, I mean it dosent help that there are forces that are at work that most people dont belive but I do. There is a evil that exist that can not be understood, a lack of compassion for any one or thing. This evil gets inside of people and makes them do horrendous things. Its wild out here, the media only covers so much.
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EXACTLY! And what IS the purpose of faith, other than to prove that one can cripple one's reason and believe something that they have NO direct evidence for (what survival benefit does this convey?).

Given a world of 10,000 religions, all claming the same divine message and exclusivity, (yeah, simplified) with just the same amount of "proof" (zero) and the obvious effect of countless war and misery, please tell us why an omniscient, omnipotent god would not say "hey, you know what? Many good people that are MADE BY ME to not accept something without evidence are being sent to hell - for acting in accordance with the way I MADE THEM...hm,m...if I simply reveal myself and my requirements then everyone on earth could choose to accept or reject based on full knowledge with no ambiguity."

I guess because then the priestly caste could not use ego appeal, and the desire to be "better than those sinners" to leverage jealousy and envy to control.

So please, what purpose DOES faith serve, if not exclusionary and to perpetuate injustice, if indeed anything at all.
 
There is a terrible misconception that if a man does no function on a faith based system of beliefs he MUST be void of character and integrity.

I understand why Christians as a whole get a bad rap.

If animals can be gay so can I.

I have learned an awful lot in this thread.
 
B5150 said:
There is a terrible misconception that if a man does no function on a faith based system of beliefs he MUST be void of character and integrity.

I understand why Christians as a whole get a bad rap.

If animals can be gay so can I.

I have learned an awful lot in this thread.
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Brian, a while back I looked at that disastrous thread over at M&M. I have to say that, all in all, you impress the hell out me.
 
Homosexuality is most likely a developmental defect which occurs in the womb while the brain is developing. Sex is determined upon conception. The developing brain of a fetus receives hormonal influxes as it develops. If a male fetus is developing, and estrogen is high in the womb, guess what? That male brain will start to develop as a womans brain and vice versa. This is seen in cases like Chastity Bono. Her brain most likely received too much testosterone while developing in Cher's polluted womb. Due to high testosterone, Chastity's brain developed as a man's would in utero. Its not that hard to grasp.

Also, some people are sluts and attention starved, AKA "bisexual".

To the person who referred homosexuality in animals being a "dominance" tactic, well, that guy is correct. The other gay animals obviously had some defect in brain development. A species which has gender obviously cannot carry on if all the animals are gay. The animal which is "gay" developed wrong. Ever hear of Darwin? Evolution? Well, yeah, how the heck can a species carry on if they are mostly gay? Laughable.

That is all, carry on.
 
This is seen in cases like Chastity Bono. Her brain most likely received too much testosterone while developing in Cher's polluted womb. Due to high testosterone, Chastity's brain developed as a man's would in utero. Its not that hard to grasp
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Well if that's the case then that should be proof that marijuana doesn't lower testosterone and increase estrogen :)
 
Dude, im talking WHILE THE BRAIN IS DEVELOPING IN THE UTERUS.


Its friggin common sense.


Talk amongst yourselves, im out. And not the closet pervs :wave2:
 
dsade said:
Brian, a while back I looked at that disastrous thread over at M&M. I have to say that, all in all, you impress the hell out me.
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I sincerely appreciate that. You've come a long way yourself. I find it quite rewarding to recognize that in each other.

Who'da thunk it :)

I was being sarcastic about being gay. Though Jay does make me reconsider burying my bone ;)
 
dsade said:
Put it this way, you can actually somewhat have both - clear, rational thinking and faith. Without the clear thinking part, though, you come across very badly and will never have ANY hope of making any impression on anyone that lives at an intellectual level past a 13 year old.
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Don't really feel like getting into this thread, but I very much agree with you.
 
B5150 said:
There is a terrible misconception that if a man does no function on a faith based system of beliefs he MUST be void of character and integrity.
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Yes, so agree with you and I think this is my biggest problem with many religious people. As much as I believe in God I will never belong myself to any religion for just that reason.
 
B5150 said:
Irrational is another matter. :D

That's my story and I am sticking to it. :)
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Don't worry. A few more years of Democrats and Republicans trying to Do Something! about this or that and we'll all be in rubber rooms.
 
dsade said:
EXACTLY! And what IS the purpose of faith, other than to prove that one can cripple one's reason and believe something that they have NO direct evidence for (what survival benefit does this convey?).

Given a world of 10,000 religions, all claming the same divine message and exclusivity, (yeah, simplified) with just the same amount of "proof" (zero) and the obvious effect of countless war and misery, please tell us why an omniscient, omnipotent god would not say "hey, you know what? Many good people that are MADE BY ME to not accept something without evidence are being sent to hell - for acting in accordance with the way I MADE THEM...hm,m...if I simply reveal myself and my requirements then everyone on earth could choose to accept or reject based on full knowledge with no ambiguity."

I guess because then the priestly caste could not use ego appeal, and the desire to be "better than those sinners" to leverage jealousy and envy to control.

So please, what purpose DOES faith serve, if not exclusionary and to perpetuate injustice, if indeed anything at all.
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A lot of good has come out of faith too, dsade. The US wasa built on Judeo Christian values which, while yeah they don't quite jibe with science, do by some interpretations include self determination, personal responsibility, equality of all people before God and the law, protecting the helpless, helping the needy, etc. My guess is a lot of the good in the world would not have happened absent a faith based decision on the part of many to make it happen. Because God knows, no pun intended, good intentions and actions aren't always rewarded in one's Earthly existence. On a certain level even humanist philosophies come down to axioms that are, on balance, statements of faith.
 
CDB said:
A lot of good has come out of faith too, dsade. The US wasa built on Judeo Christian values which, while yeah they don't quite jibe with science, do by some interpretations include self determination, personal responsibility, equality of all people before God and the law, protecting the helpless, helping the needy, etc. My guess is a lot of the good in the world would not have happened absent a faith based decision on the part of many to make it happen. Because God knows, no pun intended, good intentions and actions aren't always rewarded in one's Earthly existence. On a certain level even humanist philosophies come down to axioms that are, on balance, statements of faith.
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I was more addressing the narrower definition used in his statement. Faith is used, supposedly by a perfect being that would KNOW the complete chaos that would follow where plenty of good people would be hurt, INSTEAD of knowledge, which would have saved everyone who chose to.

If you think about it, if you accept some interpretations of the Bible, where some prophets , including Jesus, did NOT have to rely on faith but instead through speaking bushes, etc - or even direct conversations, then had KNOWLEDGE - which is not faith.

I wonder if such a creature, had it existed would take a gamble (and reading the story of Job, you know how it loves to gamble with the lives and misery of others) of taking human form, perhaps in middle of INdonesia or deep india and COMPLETELY wiping out ANY knowledge of who he "really" is - start just like us in ignorance with no advantage.

I wonder then where such a being would wind up at the end of a standard man's life.

Bonus points for making himself homosexual. :)
 
RADIOACTIVE said:
Homosexuality is most likely a developmental defect which occurs in the womb while the brain is developing. Sex is determined upon conception. The developing brain of a fetus receives hormonal influxes as it develops. If a male fetus is developing, and estrogen is high in the womb, guess what? That male brain will start to develop as a womans brain and vice versa. This is seen in cases like Chastity Bono. Her brain most likely received too much testosterone while developing in Cher's polluted womb. Due to high testosterone, Chastity's brain developed as a man's would in utero. Its not that hard to grasp.

Also, some people are sluts and attention starved, AKA "bisexual".

To the person who referred homosexuality in animals being a "dominance" tactic, well, that guy is correct. The other gay animals obviously had some defect in brain development. A species which has gender obviously cannot carry on if all the animals are gay. The animal which is "gay" developed wrong. Ever hear of Darwin? Evolution? Well, yeah, how the heck can a species carry on if they are mostly gay? Laughable.

That is all, carry on.
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Wow, just wow. My head hurts reading this drivel
 
dsade said:
If you think about it, if you accept some interpretations of the Bible, where some prophets , including Jesus, did NOT have to rely on faith but instead through speaking bushes, etc - or even direct conversations, then had KNOWLEDGE - which is not faith.
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I see your point. However, if a burning bush talked to me it would take an act of faith not to check into a detox center. Not that Jesus had the option, I'm just saying.

I wonder if such a creature, had it existed would take a gamble (and reading the story of Job, you know how it loves to gamble with the lives and misery of others) of taking human form, perhaps in middle of INdonesia or deep india and COMPLETELY wiping out ANY knowledge of who he "really" is - start just like us in ignorance with no advantage.
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And that's where I think faith takes a wrong turn; literal interpretation of this or that book. I think you could find moral and ethical guidance in all the existing major holy books. However when people take faith to the extent that they think Jonah actually did live in a whale, or that the Earth was created in seven days, etc., then they are taking faith and putting it up against knowledge and saying faith trumps knowledge. That I don't agree with. I do think people who believe in The Bible or whatever other holy book as literal truth have some sort of mental problem.
 
CDB said:
I see your point. However, if a burning bush talked to me it would take an act of faith not to check into a detox center. Not that Jesus had the option, I'm just saying.



And that's where I think faith takes a wrong turn; literal interpretation of this or that book. I think you could find moral and ethical guidance in all the existing major holy books. However when people take faith to the extent that they think Jonah actually did live in a whale, or that the Earth was created in seven days, etc., then they are taking faith and putting it up against knowledge and saying faith trumps knowledge. That I don't agree with. I do think people who believe in The Bible or whatever other holy book as literal truth have some sort of mental problem.
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And this is where most of the problem arises. The actual core morality (well, most of it) in the bible is NOT out of sorts with the secular humanist approach - but none of the SH philosophy is derived FROM the bible, nor are the earlier and eerily similar moral codes (hammurabi, etc). Someone wants to live by that moral code - knock yourself out, it makes for a smooth society - but to then take the whacky **** and claim that the rest of us not only have to acknowledge the truth of it, but tailor our lives around it?

Homie don't play that.
 
Bravo CDB for pointing out the good values of christianity. Alot of people dont realize that the USA would not even be around if it wasnt for christianity.
 
madds87 said:
Bravo CDB for pointing out the good values of christianity. Alot of people dont realize that the USA would not even be around if it wasnt for christianity.
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I disagree.
 
Many of faith fail to recognize that faith, by the very nature of it's definition, does indeed defy logic. It resembles at times, things that are illogical, unreasonable and often possess none to little evidence.

This is a known - that is faith. If it possessed any other charcteristics it would be a contradiction in and of itself.

You cannot defend it against logic and reason and you should not be offended when it is trumped by logic or reason, nor should one offend with it on it's behalf.
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I have to disagree I do believe that Faith must include reason and logic or it would be blind, isn't this the case with science?

As for homosexuality in animals of I believe it is natural, after all it is a ESS (Evolutionary Stable Strategy)
 
Do you have any tangiable evidence of heaven or an afterlife?
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First I would like to clarify that personally I do not believe in heaven (can not dispprove it either), then again I also don't think that all correct reasoning MUST be based on tangible evidence.

Can you prove that the universe is infinite? Do you believe it? I have never heard of anyone speeding a particle at the speed of light squared, but still it is taken that E=MC2, isn't it? Why because even without physical evidence, reason can lead you to believe it. (under mathematical terms). Under "religous terms" MAYBE heaven does make sense.

For example in science an axiom (which to me is pretty similar to a dogma) can not be proved. And from what I understand most modern mathematical theories start from a given set of axioms (BTW some of them are non-logical).

BTW I do not consider myself religious, the "religion" I am most compatible with is Buddhism.
 
E J said:
Can you prove that the universe is infinite? Do you believe it? I have never heard of anyone speeding a particle at the speed of light squared, but still it is taken that E=MC2, isn't it? Why because even without physical evidence, reason can lead you to believe it. (under mathematical terms). Under "religous terms" MAYBE heaven does make sense.

or example in science an axiom (which to me is pretty similar to a dogma) can not be proved. And from what I understand most modern mathematical theories start from a given set of axioms (BTW some of them are non-logical).
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Religion and science are very different modes of thinking with very different assumptions and very different payoffs. There's nothing wrong with religious thinking, but religion involves mostly faith-based and intrapersonal evidence while true science insists on objective and verifiable evidence. Religion's payoffs are mostly spiritual/psychological/social, science's payoffs are mostly understanding/controlling/improving.

Sure there are some elements of both science and religion that blur the line - you touched on those - and occassionally there are times they conflict (eg the Mormons' belief that American Indians are actually Jewish descendants, which is directly controverted by DNA evidence), but 99% of the time they're non-overlapping, ie talking about different things using different ways of understanding.
 
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