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Hi-Tech Pharma: Pro IGF-1 Blood Tests @ 20mcg/day

hamdysayed said:
I read pretty much every damn post in this thread , crazy how the excitement was in the beginning.
and towards the end it's like wtf dies this even work..... smh
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LOL, that's how the industry survives - pomp and circumstance, massive pre and early sales, then.... fizzle. Imagine what it was like before (the still too small of an amount of) educated consumers and point and click blood-work purchasing. That's why you don't see web pages on company sites with blood-work from so-called "R&D Team" members - it backs the company into a corner... "if we don't *know* it doesn't work..." :D That's why you see a ton of "In my opinion", "Should" "We think", "In Rats", "This user log" etc... when discussing real world efficacy (which is different from "it works": works could mean a 1 point increase - it technically "works", but you'll see nothing). Of course, the excuse is usually "no one will believe us, so why bother" - but that's BS - the people that wouldn't believe won't purchase anyway - thousands would believe it and purchase - just look at all the buyers even without it.
 
rtmilburn said:
What??? I'm totally confused about this entire post...

An mg a day is a VERY VERY HIGH DOSE to take daily for anyone.
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What makes you think that?

Conditioning from the BB community, where none of the Injectible IGF-1 on the market is actually IGF-1?

Why do you expect doses that are a mere fraction of what medical studies indicate causes actual effects to work?
 
De__eB said:
What makes you think that?

Conditioning from the BB community, where none of the Injectible IGF-1 on the market is actually IGF-1?

Why do you expect doses that are a mere fraction of what medical studies indicate causes actual effects to work?
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Please show me any study that uses a mg+ in humans
 
rtmilburn said:
What??? I'm totally confused about this entire post...

An mg a day is a VERY VERY HIGH DOSE to take daily for anyone.
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Perhaps not too high for someone treating bone disease..but perhaps a bit overkill for healthy BB's trying to put on some muscle..personally I feel cycling a mg a week for a month or so is good enough. Having said that, 20mcg a day is a very mild dose, but perhaps an accumulative effect can be seen if youre cycling off and on for a year or more.
 
JohnnieFreeze said:
Perhaps not too high for someone treating bone disease..but perhaps a bit overkill for healthy BB's trying to put on some muscle..personally I feel cycling a mg a week for a month or so is good enough. Having said that, 20mcg a day is a very mild dose, but perhaps an accumulative effect can be seen if youre cycling off and on for a year or more.
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Injections of multiple mg didn't exactly result in orders of magnitude increases in IGF-1.

What impact do you think 20mcg or 100mcg is going to do?
 
rtmilburn said:
Well saying it uses u not mgs I'm not sure. As I didn't think there is a standard conversion for u(units) to mgs with igf. Could be wrong.
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All of those are using micrograms per kilogram per day.

i.e.

30-60-90-120ug/kg/day, I weigh 170 lbs/77 kg, my doses in that study would be 2.3/4.6/6.9/9.2mg/day.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8077337 said:
who received various dosages (30, 60, 120, or 180 micrograms/kg.day) by sc injections for 6 days.
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The_Old_Guy said:
LOL, that's how the industry survives - pomp and circumstance, massive pre and early sales, then.... fizzle. Imagine what it was like before (the still too small of an amount of) educated consumers and point and click blood-work purchasing. That's why you don't see web pages on company sites with blood-work from so-called "R&D Team" members - it backs the company into a corner... "if we don't *know* it doesn't work..." :D That's why you see a ton of "In my opinion", "Should" "We think", "In Rats", "This user log" etc... when discussing real world efficacy (which is different from "it works": works could mean a 1 point increase - it technically "works", but you'll see nothing). Of course, the excuse is usually "no one will believe us, so why bother" - but that's BS - the people that wouldn't believe won't purchase anyway - thousands would believe it and purchase - just look at all the buyers even without it.
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we will see what happens with Danes
 
De__eB said:
Injections of multiple mg didn't exactly result in orders of magnitude increases in IGF-1.

What impact do you think 20mcg or 100mcg is going to do?
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Speaking for my lab rat, 1mg per week did bring noticeable results..*real world results that were seen and measured*. Now whether 20 mcg a day cycling off and on for long periods of time may *eventually* bring results perhaps not, so I understand your point..but lets take a dose of 150mcg per day which is 1,050mg per week, well that may be a different story. Of course this cycle of pro IGF would be pricey...
 
Absolutely! I think that's what most people forget, how expensive real IGF-1 actually is.

I personally only knew one guy who used it (back at the gym in the late '90's) and the guy was out of this world strong ... and out of this world rich. So there's something to that, lol.






-Spaz
 
De__eB said:
All of those are using micrograms per kilogram per day.

i.e.

30-60-90-120ug/kg/day, I weigh 170 lbs/77 kg, my doses in that study would be 2.3/4.6/6.9/9.2mg/day.
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Great info! Pretty safe to say that PRO IGF-1 is grossly underdosed. Then we have the questionable delivery system on top of that...
 
The_Old_Guy said:
He's now using 100mcg's a day. What's this stuff - ~$100 for 50 days at 20mcg? Y'all must have some serious cake to spend... someone's smiling, that's for sure :D
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Someone is smiling until uncle Danes find out someone has touched his ass :D

This is just an experiment and my thread will be wake up call for many people. So if this stuff work (something I really doubt) It will be a game changer. If not working, this will not sell so much either
 
Danes said:
If it works 300$ for one month (at 100mcg)is pretty brutal
If it does not work, 300$for 1 month whey tabs = you are crazy and need professional therapy :D
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lolzz....well, Im always talking about hyperplasia type muscle growth from rh-IGF..so IF it does work..you'll definitely know it..in about 6 months. :bigeyes2:
 
JohnnieFreeze said:
lolzz....well, Im always talking about hyperplasia type muscle growth from rh-IGF..so IF it does work..you'll definitely know it..in about 6 months. :bigeyes2:
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Believe me, you dont need to wait 6 months to feel amazing effects from IGF1 :)
I know a professional bodybuilder from Norway who used real IGF1. He got from a doctor from Denmark . Strength was unbelievable after just 4 weeks. Extreme muscle fullness ++
Real IGF1 and I mean REAL IGF1 which is almost impossible to get works better than people can even imagine.
 
Danes said:
Believe me, you dont need to wait 6 months to feel amazing effects from IGF1 :)
I know a professional bodybuilder from Norway who used real IGF1. He got from a doctor from Denmark . Strength was unbelievable after just 4 weeks. Extreme muscle fullness ++
Real IGF1 and I mean REAL IGF1 which is almost impossible to get works better than people can even imagine.
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sweet..well I hope you will get similar results in that short of time..with the money youve spent, you deserve it.
 
Danes said:
Believe me, you dont need to wait 6 months to feel amazing effects from IGF1 :)
I know a professional bodybuilder from Norway who used real IGF1. He got from a doctor from Denmark . Strength was unbelievable after just 4 weeks. Extreme muscle fullness ++
Real IGF1 and I mean REAL IGF1 which is almost impossible to get works better than people can even imagine.
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Not really. Know people that have used it. Never have I heard anyone talk about the strength gains.
 
Danes said:
Its maybe rude to ask you, but are you 100% sure it was real IGF1 ?
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Considering I live in the mecca of anti aging clinics, yes. It actually sounds like the stuff you are describing isn't the real thing. I've never heard of anyone getting large strength gains from igf in 4 weeks. In fact, much like GH, it takes longer and has more of an asthetic appeal much more than any performance one.
 
Danes said:
I am increasing the dose to 100mcg.
1st week 40mcg each dsy
2nd week 40mcg each day
3rd week (soon finishing) upped dose to 60, then 80 and today 100mcg.
Keeping at 100mcg until bloodwork.
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I would think if your planning on testing a product for efficacy you would want to use the suggested dosage on the bottle. Not 5 times higher.
Because we want to see if the product works as advertised. They claimed 20mcg worked.
The point is if you have to take 500% of the dose advertised its now 500$ not 100$.
And it means it wont likely work at the 20mcg they are advertising at. You shouldnt have to take 5 times the recommended dose. ESPECIALLY if your running labs. Not good science.
 
Admin said:
Considering I live in the mecca of anti aging clinics, yes. It actually sounds like the stuff you are describing isn't the real thing. I've never heard of anyone getting large strength gains from igf in 4 weeks. In fact, much like GH, it takes longer and has more of an asthetic appeal much more than any performance one.
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Yeah those were my original thoughts on compounds like these..they take time..and patience is the name of the game
 
Admin said:
Considering I live in the mecca of anti aging clinics, yes. It actually sounds like the stuff you are describing isn't the real thing. I've never heard of anyone getting large strength gains from igf in 4 weeks. In fact, much like GH, it takes longer and has more of an asthetic appeal much more than any performance one.
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I know for sure it was real stuff. But as you know BB guys stack different steroids ++. So maybe he does not know what exactly worked etc.i only know he said adding IGF1 was one of the best things he did
 
brundel said:
I would think if your planning on testing a product for efficacy you would want to use the suggested dosage on the bottle. Not 5 times higher.
Because we want to see if the product works as advertised. They claimed 20mcg worked.
The point is if you have to take 500% of the dose advertised its now 500$ not 100$.
And it means it wont likely work at the 20mcg they are advertising at. You shouldnt have to take 5 times the recommended dose. ESPECIALLY if your running labs. Not good science.
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I totaly agree. My approach is more like:
If 100mcg daily does not work, how can 20mcg do anything ?
 
Danes said:
I know for sure it was real stuff. But as you know BB guys stack different steroids ++. So maybe he does not know what exactly worked etc.
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Who knows. Real IGF gives crazy pumps and that 3D like full muscle belly growth....not much in terms of growth. In fact the pumps hurt so much you stop lifting. Lol
 
Admin said:
Who knows. Real IGF gives crazy pumps and that 3D like full muscle belly growth....not much in terms of growth. In fact the pumps hurt so much you stop lifting. Lol
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Mmm i want those pumps !!
Yes he mentioned sick sick sick pumps. Swolen as f..after a workout
 
Admin said:
Who knows. Real IGF gives crazy pumps and that 3D like full muscle belly growth....not much in terms of growth. In fact the pumps hurt so much you stop lifting. Lol
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I can attest to this. I basically got compartment syndrome in my forearms on a back and bicep workout from igf 20 min pre workout. It was not a pleasant experience...very painful. Luckily goes away a few hours after the pump fades.
 
Danes said:
I totaly agree. My approach is more like:
If 100mcg daily does not work, how can 20mcg do anything ?
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The downside is If it does work it still doesn't tell us if it works at normal doses
 
Danes said:
I know for sure it was real stuff. But as you know BB guys stack different steroids ++. So maybe he does not know what exactly worked etc.i only know he said adding IGF1 was one of the best things he did
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This is exactly what I was thinking, BB often use multiple compound and with IGF what a hear is that 1+1 = 3 so...
 
bigdavid said:
I can attest to this. I basically got compartment syndrome in my forearms on a back and bicep workout from igf 20 min pre workout. It was not a pleasant experience...very painful. Luckily goes away a few hours after the pump fades.
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I have had noticeably increased muscle pumps since using this since monday post workout @ 20mcg, today was day 6, i trained back today and forearms blew up and made training uncomfortable i had to stop to take more rest time between sets due to over pumped feeling it was not comfortable and felt like there was too much blood in biceps and forearms.

Sleep and recovery have also improved this week.
 
paul56778 said:
I have had noticeably increased muscle pumps since using this since monday post workout @ 20mcg, today was day 6, i trained back today and forearms blew up and made training uncomfortable i had to stop to take more rest time between sets due to over pumped feeling it was not comfortable and felt like there was too much blood in biceps and forearms.

Sleep and recovery have also improved this week.
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Good for you :)
At 100mcg I feel nothing
 
And just to clarify I was injecting the igf locally in the muscle being trained. Just so it’s not confused with this oral product lol
 
Ok so this is completely irresponsible and dangerous. But I’m willing to bet someone somewhere has solubilized this supplement and injected it. Ouch?
 
paul56778 said:
I have had noticeably increased muscle pumps since using this since monday post workout @ 20mcg, today was day 6, i trained back today and forearms blew up and made training uncomfortable i had to stop to take more rest time between sets due to over pumped feeling it was not comfortable and felt like there was too much blood in biceps and forearms.

Sleep and recovery have also improved this week.
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Glad to hear that!
 
paul56778 said:
I have had noticeably increased muscle pumps since using this since monday post workout @ 20mcg, today was day 6, i trained back today and forearms blew up and made training uncomfortable i had to stop to take more rest time between sets due to over pumped feeling it was not comfortable and felt like there was too much blood in biceps and forearms.

Sleep and recovery have also improved this week.
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u mean injectable right?
 
Danes said:
I totaly agree. My approach is more like:
If 100mcg daily does not work, how can 20mcg do anything ?
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I’m fine with your approach. If your IGF levels skyrocket its safe to assume that one should get something from a lower dose . Although I’d never do less than 10 tabs a day either way.
 
I found this post in the thead on IGF1 , the opinion of Mr. Patrick Arnold on IGF, I think that in general IGF-1 are not that effective:

Quote Originally Posted by tryingtologin View Post

Question for you guys. After reading this thread, and particular PA's more recent posts, would taking IGF 1 lr3 as a stand alone "cycle" have any muscle building effects? Hyperplasia nor hyper trophy? Any strength gains? It is widely being pumped up everywhere else on the net to do excactly that.

Cheers for any replies.

Pat Anorld answer:
none at all IMO
 
alvin1 said:
I found this post in the thead on IGF1 , the opinion of Mr. Patrick Arnold on IGF, I think that in general IGF-1 are not that effective:

Quote Originally Posted by tryingtologin View Post

Question for you guys. After reading this thread, and particular PA's more recent posts, would taking IGF 1 lr3 as a stand alone "cycle" have any muscle building effects? Hyperplasia nor hyper trophy? Any strength gains? It is widely being pumped up everywhere else on the net to do excactly that.

Cheers for any replies.

Pat Anorld answer:
none at all IMO
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Hes right..IGF 1 lr3 does nothing for true muscle growth..but rh-IGF-1 does..which is what this supplement supposedly is.
 
alvin1 said:
I tough IGF 1lr3 was the long slow release form of IGF 1
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Its not the same as rh-IGF-1..it does not have the same muscle building capabilities. lr3 is an expensive glucose disposal agent/nutrient partitioner which may lean you out a little and give good pumps during a cycle (which is why some people swear by it as it gives some results quickly) but there are cheaper options out there for those effects. For hyperlasia you want the rh version.
 
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