Hair Loss Prevention

[Syringe]

Anyone know how long and if I should wait after injecting npp at 225 mgs eod to start taking propecia??

Thanks in advance.

Chart shows a huge drop in nandrolone plasma levels after 5 days following a 100 mg npp injection. Maybe start it then??

 

[BrazilianDoc]

do any of the shampoos block the dht in your hair without messing with the rest of your body's dht??

for the hair loss experts out there, whats the "best" shampoo or supplement to use while on cycle(in addition to toco 8)?

I am MPB prone , i treat with finasteride 1mg for 7 y than it messed forever my HTPA . Then i decide to try to go only on KETOCONAZOLE 2% SHAMPOO ,and i use this exclusively in the last 10 years, no hair loss, no shedding, and i am on HRT and do 2 - 3 cycles per year .
Strongly recommended, and btw, no systemic absorption or sides.

 

[Red9]

I believe Primordial is still getting rid of products. Only their topicals and hormonal based products were seized, from what I know. I was on the site yesterday, and it appears they still are selling/shipping Toco-8

 

[ironwiz]

So nizoral was completely drying out my scalp, so i have ordered some regenpure both the NT and DR. I will let you guys know how it goes once i receive it

 

[ironwiz]

What do you guys think of this as an alterntaive to toco-8? Its only $8.63

google: Vitacost Vitamin E & Tocotrienol Complex

 

[toddgranit]

What do you guys think of this as an alterntaive to toco-8? Its only $8.63

google: Vitacost Vitamin E & Tocotrienol Complex

Yes, any formula that uses Carotech Tocomin formula, which is the one used in all the studies, Swansons, and Jarrow, also use Tocomin tocotrienol complex.

Peace

 

[ironwiz]

Yes, any formula that uses Carotech Tocomin formula, which is the one used in all the studies, Swansons, and Jarrow, also use Tocomin tocotrienol complex.

Peace

Cheers mate. Do you know the dosages used in the study?

Sent from my iPhone using Am.com

 

[toddgranit]

Cheers mate. Do you know the dosages used in the study?

Sent from my iPhone using Am.com

Unfortunately I don't, if you go to Carotech's web site they have all the info,
I know that three of the swansons' tocotrienol complex gel caps are roughly equal to two scoops of toco 8.

Peace

 

[greaser]

I believe Primordial is still getting rid of products. Only their topicals and hormonal based products were seized, from what I know. I was on the site yesterday, and it appears they still are selling/shipping Toco-8

Yeah, they still have Toco-8 and a few other things, though I highly doubt it does anything for hair loss. That being said, it's still a great source of full spectrum vitamin E which you will not get from typical supplements, which is why I just bought a bunch. Just remember to keep it refrigerated to preserve its potency over time.

 

[lboston]

So nizoral was completely drying out my scalp, so i have ordered some regenpure both the NT and DR. I will let you guys know how it goes once i receive it

Is one a shampoo and the other conditioner?

 

[ironwiz]

basically, the other doesn't contain the active ingredient which is found in nizoral. Google regenpure, go to their website and check them out.

I still haven't received my order so i cant give you guys a review yet.

 

[ironwiz]

basically, the other doesn't contain the active ingredient which is found in nizoral. Google regenpure, go to their website and check them out.

I still haven't received my order so i cant give you guys a review yet.

 

[alben]

Great and so informative article.I have learned so amazing and useful information about hair loss prevention from here because i am also facing the same problem of hair loss.
Thanks for sharing great work.

 

[vpower]

I have over 200 bottles of Toco 8. Last batch made, expires 11/13, store in fridge and they will last much longer. PM for best offer, I will honor buy in bulk deals.

 

[Red9]

I have over 200 bottles of Toco 8. Last batch made, expires 11/13, store in fridge and they will last much longer. PM for best offer, I will honor buy in bulk deals.

How much did you pay for them if you don't mind me asking?

 

[vpower]

I have a deal worked out with Eric, since Primordial Performance is shut down he didnt want these products to go to waste, since they are unable to send or receive money anymore. I have 200 bottles left, last batch to have been made.

 

[mattias]

Iam starting Dutasteride at 0,5mg/ed in a couple of days.
Do I need to load with a higher dose for the first two weeks or something?
To prevent estro sides,is it enought to run 6Bromo at 50-100mg/ed or ATD?

Thanx.

 

[xerbia]

real

 

[Jessep76]

Iam starting Dutasteride at 0,5mg/ed in a couple of days.
Do I need to load with a higher dose for the first two weeks or something?
To prevent estro sides,is it enought to run 6Bromo at 50-100mg/ed or ATD?

Thanx.

May I ask why you are taking Dutasteride over Propecia? I've read the side effects of propecia don't compare to Dutast. I'm wondering if an AI such as atd or 6bro would be working against the whole purpose of taking Duta. Formestane on the other hand, Ive read also lowers DHT (not sure if thats totally true), but if it did it could work hand in hand. Also consider spacing out your doses. Finasteride is still effective at 3 to 4 doses a week instead of everyday which could potentially lower the risk of side effects. Duta might work the same way

 

[ironwiz]

So guys just a update:

I have been using the regenpure DR and NT. DR has been drying out my hair and NT isnt really nourishing at all. So i have reverted back to my original conditioner to use after i use DR.

Also i will be starting to use Jarrow Formulas Toco-Sorb soon which is the vitamin e complex that was originally used in the study for hair loss, not toco-8.

 

[Handytom]

saw palmetto

I heard saw palmetto blocks DHT

 

[ironwiz]

I heard saw palmetto blocks DHT

Meh, i dont believe that there is enough evidence supporting this theory at all... Save your money.

 

[robinjohn12]

Lots of stuff available here, but I think steroids can not be harmful if it use by advice of expert.

 

[ironwiz]

I'm currently adding Hyaluronic acid into my hair-loss prevention regime. Has any one had any results? I am finding that my scalp/hair doesn't seem as dry hence resulting in healthier hair


Hyaluronic Acid in Scalp Tissue and Hair Follicles

Structurally the scalp is identical to the skin tissue located throughout the body except it also contains about 100,000 hair follicles that give rise to hair. Actually the hair and the hair follicle are a derivative of skin tissue. There are two distinctive skin layers, one, the epidermis (outer layer) which gives rise to the protective shield of the body and the other, the dermal layer (deep layer) which makes up the bulk of the skin and is where the hair follicle is located. This dermal layer is composed of connective tissue and the connective tissue, with its gelatinous fluid like characteristics provides support, nourishes and hydrates the deep layers of the scalp. The result is healthy lustrous hair and a moisturized scalp. Again, all of this is made possible because of the presence of HA in the scalp.

http://www.hyalogic.com/main/about_hyaluronic_acid

 

[robinjohn12]

Nice and useful info you post.

 

[Handytom]

H A

good info

 

[1976pianoman]

Finasteride on Epistane Cycle

Holy crap. This thread is 100+ pages long. I've read through much of it but not all of it. I'm 2 days into my first cycle - 30/30/30/30 epistane. This is the first and only time I am going to do PH. If I ever do another cycle it will be the real stuff. I'm concerned about hair loss. I've been on generic proscar (finasteride) 5mg that I cut into 1/4's for about 3 years. I also do Kirkland brand Minoxidil (Rogaine) foam from Costco. It seems it's stopped my hairloss, or at least slowed it down tremendously. My question is, should I up my finasteride dosage while on my epistane cycle? Maybe take a half pill (2.5 mg) or a whole pill (5mg) daily, instead of a 1/4 pill (1.25 mg) daily?I suppose keeping my hair takes precedent over gains,but at the same time I don't want all this work I'm doing this month to be wasted. What I discovered in my research is that epistane is practically identical to DHT. Therefore if finasteride blocks DHT, it's going to also block epistane. What I don't know is if this method of blocking occurs somehow and somewhere outside the scope of what matters for muscle gains. Maybe it only blocks somehow in the mechanisms involving hair loss? I don't think we would be that lucky. Logic would say that's is ridiculous to take a DHT blocker like finasteride while on epistane. Yet it seems everybody is doing it, right? Problems with increasing to 5mg not only effecting gains but hugely effecting libido. My doctor said that the only people that should ever take a full 5mg finasteride dose are prostate cancer patients. Truth is that I am not ****ing right now, so I don't care about not being able to get it up for a month. I'm mainly concerned about blocking my gains. So what to do? Thanks.

 

[greaser]

I've been on Proscar/Propecia for like 12 years, and minoxidil as well. Together they stopped or at least dramatically slowed down my hair loss. Don't worry about 4 weeks of Epi. That won't do anything to your hairline. I've run several Epi cycles and it made no difference to my head. Epi is NOT DHT, but it is similar. Finasteride aka Proscar, is a type 2 5a reductase inhibitor. It does not "block DHT," it only prevents testosterone from being 5 alpha reduced to DHT, so it lowers your DHT levels. The prohormones and steroids you'd need to worry about would be ones (like testosterone) that interact with the 5AR enzyme and get reduced to DHT. So if you were using T, then a bit more finasteride might be called for, but not for Epi.

Holy crap. This thread is 100+ pages long. I've read through much of it but not all of it. I'm 2 days into my first cycle - 30/30/30/30 epistane. This is the first and only time I am going to do PH. If I ever do another cycle it will be the real stuff. I'm concerned about hair loss. I've been on generic proscar (finasteride) 5mg that I cut into 1/4's for about 3 years. I also do Kirkland brand Minoxidil (Rogaine) foam from Costco. It seems it's stopped my hairloss, or at least slowed it down tremendously. My question is, should I up my finasteride dosage while on my epistane cycle? Maybe take a half pill (2.5 mg) or a whole pill (5mg) daily, instead of a 1/4 pill (1.25 mg) daily?I suppose keeping my hair takes precedent over gains,but at the same time I don't want all this work I'm doing this month to be wasted. What I discovered in my research is that epistane is practically identical to DHT. Therefore if finasteride blocks DHT, it's going to also block epistane. What I don't know is if this method of blocking occurs somehow and somewhere outside the scope of what matters for muscle gains. Maybe it only blocks somehow in the mechanisms involving hair loss? I don't think we would be that lucky. Logic would say that's is ridiculous to take a DHT blocker like finasteride while on epistane. Yet it seems everybody is doing it, right? Problems with increasing to 5mg not only effecting gains but hugely effecting libido. My doctor said that the only people that should ever take a full 5mg finasteride dose are prostate cancer patients. Truth is that I am not ****ing right now, so I don't care about not being able to get it up for a month. I'm mainly concerned about blocking my gains. So what to do? Thanks.

 

[1976pianoman]

Wow. Thank you man. Very informative. That's a relief. I will keep it at 1.25 daily.

So if and when I move over to real gear, what would be a good choice that would not contribute to my hair loss? Obviously stay away from test. What about primobolan or letrozle?

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

Keep in mind that when on epi your test levels will be reduced so you could get off the fina til after cycle. Your DHT levels will be very low during cycle already.

 

[1976pianoman]

That's right! I knew that about my test levels post cycle, but never considered how that might effect needing to take my daily finasteride. Thanks you! Because I'm freaked out over losing hair, I will probably continue to take the 1/4 pill daily always - even post cycle, unless some serious libido problems occur.

 

[greaser]

Keep in mind that when on epi your test levels will be reduced so you could get off the fina til after cycle. Your DHT levels will be very low during cycle already.

This.^^ In fact, being on Finasteride puts you at a very high risk for gyno, because your DHT levels are very low and DHT is your body's natural estrogen antagonist. I just got done with a (PH)tren/epi cycle and I stopped taking proscar the whole time. I'm in my last week of PCT and I STILL won't take it for another week or so until my hormone levels have stabilized. I've gotten "rebound" gyno before, from non-aromatizing compounds like Hdrol, several months AFTER a successful SERM PCT. Just keep using your minoxidil the whole time and you should be OK.

 

[1976pianoman]

This.^^ In fact, being on Finasteride puts you at a very high risk for gyno, because your DHT levels are very low and DHT is your body's natural estrogen antagonist. I just got done with a (PH)tren/epi cycle and I stopped taking proscar the whole time. I'm in my last week of PCT and I STILL won't take it for another week or so until my hormone levels have stabilized. I've gotten "rebound" gyno before, from non-aromatizing compounds like Hdrol, several months AFTER a successful SERM PCT. Just keep using your minoxidil the whole time and you should be OK.

****. and I was actually thinking at one point to UP my dosage... You know, I misread what whiteboy was saying kinda. Now I get it. Okay, I'll stop the finfin until I'm off the epi. THANK YOU.I have much to learn about epi. I thought it increased test. I thought all gear increased test in one way or another. I'm very new to this, and need to research more I suppose.

 

[greaser]

That is a question that I am constantly researching. It really does suck, because guys like us have very limited options. Testosterone really should be the base around which all cycles are built, but it's off limits for us. The prohormone version of "tren," (dienolone) is not very androgenic and is highly anabolic. Some people will tell you otherwise, but they are confusing it with actual trenbolone and they are WRONG. http://www.mindandmuscle.net/articles/prohormones-dienolone/ That makes it fairly safe for your hair, but it's a very suppressive compound, and most people would advise running either test, or something that converts to DHT to combat sides, but both of those are a no-go for us. Oral Turinabol is a hair-safe compound, but it's an oral methylated compound, so you might as well just use Hdrol.

Wow. Thank you man. Very informative. That's a relief. I will keep it at 1.25 daily.

So if and when I move over to real gear, what would be a good choice that would not contribute to my hair loss? Obviously stay away from test. What about primobolan or letrozle?

 

[greaser]

****. and I was actually thinking at one point to UP my dosage... You know, I misread what whiteboy was saying kinda. Now I get it. Okay, I'll stop the finfin until I'm off the epi. THANK YOU.I have much to learn about epi. I thought it increased test. I thought all gear increased test in one way or another. I'm very new to this, and need to research more I suppose.

You should honestly probably research things a bit more before you start your cycle. Everyone should ideally have at least a working understanding of the HTPA and how exogenous steroids suppress it via the negative feedback loop. The only thing you can take that will make your testosterone levels go up is testosterone -- or something that converts to it. However, it's not YOUR testosterone that will increase -- it will actually be shut down -- it's just that you are injecting several times more than what your body would normally produce. So if you were taking a compound like testosterone that gets 5AR reduced to DHT, then you WOULD want to use finasteride to reduce the amount that got converted. However, taking epi or Trenazone, or Hdrol, etc., will shut down your natural T production, and since none of those compounds convert to DHT, you will have very little DHT floating around in your system to attack your hair.

I'm a little concerned too that you might not have a good PCT lined up. Could you say what you're planning for that?

 

[1976pianoman]

You should honestly probably research things a bit more before you start your cycle. Everyone should ideally have at least a working understanding of the HTPA and how exogenous steroids suppress it via the negative feedback loop. The only thing you can take that will make your testosterone levels go up is testosterone -- or something that converts to it. However, it's not YOUR testosterone that will increase -- it will actually be shut down -- it's just that you are injecting several times more than what your body would normally produce. So if you were taking a compound like testosterone that gets 5AR reduced to DHT, then you WOULD want to use finasteride to reduce the amount that got converted. However, taking epi or Trenazone, or Hdrol, etc., will shut down your natural T production, and since none of those compounds convert to DHT, you will have very little DHT floating around in your system to attack your hair. I'm a little concerned too that you might not have a good PCT lined up. Could you say what you're planning for that?

Okay, now I get it. Thanks.I am taking CEL cycle support btw.

For PCT I am doing Nolva 40/20/20/20.

 

[ironwiz]

Okay, now I get it. Thanks.I am taking CEL cycle support btw.

For PCT I am doing Nolva 40/20/20/20.

I don't believe you should ever increase your dosage of fin unless you absolutely have to. Its a prescription medicine that is plagued by plenty of sides that i would want to avoid.

As for your PCT it looks great for EPI cycle. A better one would be: Nolva at your current protocol and introduce DAA at 3/3/3/3/3/3grams and erase at 0/0/3/3/2/1.

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

Dont use fina with deca. It reduces it to a less potent hormone. Waste of deca.

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

I dont think there are any problems with taking fina with boldenone.

 

[averyclay]

Hi there,

There are many reason for hair loss in men such as hormonal imbalance or hormonal changes, stress, scalp itching and one of the primarily cause is genetic which is known as androgenetic alopecia.

A person facing this problem can easily fall prey in a desperate measure to get rid of his problem. Identifying the type of hair loss you are suffering from is the first step to seeking treatment. It is important that hair loss should be treated as early as possible or it might lead to total baldness.

I believe that instead of opting for not so successful treatments, one should try a hair transplant, for referral you can look up Dr. Cole hair transplant clinic- Forhair.com that involves the use of specially designed tools for skillfully placing hair grafts in your balding areas.

 

[ironwiz]

Update:

I have switched from regenpure to revita and am really like it. It doesnt dry out my hair and i am using it with the complementing conditioner which leaves my hair looking great.

I highly recommend it. Plus it is filled with plenty of other clinical proven ingredients.

I am also using toco-sorb (better than toco8) which has made my hair thicker and healthier.

 

[1976pianoman]

Shampoos

This information came to me via a very well respected dermatologist that I paid big money to go see while I was uninsured a few years back. He was actually enraged over the split in the hair-loss community between the real science and the quackery. He explained to me that DHT is an internal thing. It's in the blood. It cannot be "washed" away with any sort of shampoo and any claims to this notion are outright lies (according to him) perpetuated by the manufactures of some of these shampoos. The studies are not legit (he claims) and he says that the only people who don't know this are the consumers - they are the victims. The only scientifically, peer-reviewed methods of preventing hairloss are with the drug finasteride and the topical application of minoxidil.The FDA will not approve any of these shampoos regardless of their claims because the limited studies are not conclusive and what little percentage increases were shown are not substantial enough for these products to be considered a legit MPB treatment. So my advice, keep using your shampoo if you like, but don't forget to also take your fina and your foam. Do with this info what you please. I'm not up for a debate. Cheers.

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

Just because he's a dr does not mean he knows what he's talking about. Testosterone comes in a cream and gets absorbed into your blood stream. I'm sure you've heard of transdermals.

 

[1976pianoman]

Just because he's a dr does not mean he knows what he's talking about.

True dat. Yet we are not talking about these shampoos absorbing into the blood stream (as transdermals do), that's not the claim being made by the manufactures. Nobody thinks or is saying that the active ingredients in these shampoos are getting into your blood via your scalp. What is being suggested by some, is that these shampoos wash away DHT on the scalp surface. That was the only claim I was talking about. Doc says that there is no "washing it away" that will do any good. The DHT levels have to be reduced in the blood. Once they are at the scalp, it's too late - it's already done it's damage.

 

[1976pianoman]

FYI - me and the Doc were talking about the shampoo Nioxin. We didn't discuss the others that might have something to do with fungus like Nizoral. Maybe there is some merit to the fungus connection to hairloss. There is one study that while inconclusive, suggests that. I buy into that notion far easier than the washing away of DHT.

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

Actually I'd never heard of any shampoos washing DHT away. I'd always heard it was their transdermal affect that blocks DHT at the scalp. There are studies that support some of the ingredients in some of these shampoos.

 

[ironwiz]

Sorry to say this but your doc sounds like a dick! This is the reason i find it so hard to find a good doc who isnt one sided and does his/her own research.

I know you didnt want to start a debate, but i will just state some facts.

Nixon isnt a hairloss prevention shampoo it is more of a volumizing/thickener shampoo.

Now in relation to DHT in the blood yes your doctor is correct to say that you cant alter those levels through any shampoo. But what shampoos that have ketoconzole in it do is inhibit DHT locally on the scalp. Now because it does this locally you have to use the shampoo ED or EOD or E3D whatever works best for you.

Now i was very lucky that i caught my hair loss very early so i was quickly able to prevent it from continuing and actually thicken my hair in the process.

All i use is atm is toco-sorb, revita (ketoconazole) and hyaluronic acid. My hair is looking and feeling great.

Minoxidil would be the next step for me if my hair loss got really bad and out of control

Fin would be my absolute last resort.

 

[ironwiz]

Also if you have time look at the reviews for regenpure and revita on amazon you will see that plenty of men are having great results with these ketoconozole based shampoos.

 

[Bigchourico]

Is it me or is it virtually impossible to find nizoral shampoo anywhere?

 

[1976pianoman]

All i use is atm is toco-sorb, revita (ketoconazole) and hyaluronic acid. My hair is looking and feeling great.

I would really like to try these products. I know about the ketoconazole shampoos but the other products you mentioned are foreign to me. Can you tell me more about what hyaluronic acid product you use and how you use it? Same with toco-sorb whatever the F that is. I'm in no way on this doc's side. I was just relaying what he said. It seemed to make sense to me, but I have a very open mind to try these other products you mentioned and make my own mind up about it.