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Getting rid of gyno n getting bigger than IC.....if thats even possible.

Shoulders/Traps.

I love training shoulders. It's the one muscle group I feel I can completly isolate.

Standing Overhead press
125x12
125x10
125x10
125x9

DB Side Laterals
15x15
20x12
25x10
30x8

Cable Up-Right Rows
100x15
110x12
120x12

DB Front Raise
7sets of 10
25lbs

Barebell Shrugs
3sets
225x15

DB Shrugs
3sets
100x12

Lying Rear Delt Raise
15x12
15x10
20x8

Reverse Pec Dec
7sets of 10
90lbs

To even out the playing feild I had some Lasagna tonight IC,lol. Couldn't help myself. However, I did take 50mcg of IGF-1lr3 and 1 AP before :run:
 
Took some measurements 1st thing this morning. All measurements are unflexed

Weight: 203
Waist: 33.25"
Chest: 44"
Shoudlers: <50"
Right Arm: 14.5"
-Forearm: >12"
Left Arm: 14.5"
-Forarm: 12"
Right Leg: 25"
-5" above knee: 21.75"
Leg Leg: 24.5"
-5" above kneee: 21.5"
Right Calve: >15"
Left Calve: >15"

I'm actually really surprised with my waist measurement. Which means when I stop creatine it shuld drop down to about 32", whcih in turn means ABS!

I bump'd the carbs up big time yesterday and I feel A LOT fuller today, so I'm def gonna keep them high for the time remaining.
 
that's a very nice diet distilled. a bit protein heavy for me (on a mealwise basis) but man, nicely done. i'm a carb whore - 600g or more per day is normal for me. god, i'll probably get diabetes.
 
Irish Cannon said:
Work through that soreness baby!!!!

Man, I hurt my back again in a different spot. I'm falling apart dude.
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Your getting old! lol you really think I should? I've never tried training somthing when it was sore. :think:

I mean it doesn't really matter. All I do is lay around and watch fox news all day while eating enough steak and sweet potatos for a small village. so i'm a little surprised im not recoverd already
 
Distilled Water said:
Your getting old! lol you really think I should? I've never tried training somthing when it was sore. :think:

I mean it doesn't really matter. All I do is lay around and watch fox news all day while eating enough steak and sweet potatos for a small village. so i'm a little surprised im not recoverd already
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Yes, sometimes you have to work through the soreness, especially when starting a new routine; it's inevitable. I've never let soreness get in the way of a scheduled workout.

Is it the news you're watching, or...
 
Irish Cannon said:
Yes, sometimes you have to work through the soreness, especially when starting a new routine; it's inevitable. I've never let soreness get in the way of a scheduled workout.

Is it the news you're watching, or...
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HAHA yea a little. Fox does has the hottest girls in news. You ever watch Red Eye? They always have hot girls on that show.
 
Quads

Leg Extention
195x12
210x10
225x10

Front Squats
185x9
185x9
185x7

Leg Press (low stance)
415x10
415x10
415x10

BB Hack Squats
6 sets of 135x8

Holy **** those BB Hack Squats are legit. I hate them but I think I'm in love with them. Constant pressure on the quads with almost none on my knees :think: how so!!!!

I only did 6 because I couldnt do the alst set,lol.

I tried walking a little after my workout hoping it would reduce a lil of my swole but it made it worse! I lasted 5 minutes.

I wont be training ham's tonight. They are just too tight and I have a history of hamstring problems (sports) so Im going to play it cool and wait until friday to hit those.

On a good note, maybe bad. I got called back into work. Nothing special just part time but hey it's money right. I will still be able to keeps tabs on you IC so dont get too excited, lol.

Also I woke up this morning and 205! I dont think Im really getting fat because my waist is still under 33.5" but im happy at this weight. So i'll try and "recomp" Really all that means is I will start back with cardio 6-7days/week.

I'm really tempted to get back on the Anabolic Diet. I say this because earlier this year I leaned out while adding 4lbs in about 4-6 weeks.
 
Nice session man.

I'm working on a recomp right now. I've just totally changed things up in my diet and training. I'd like to make some quick progress. I'm not really happy with my body composition right now. I feel stress is taking a toll on me. Classes are winding down and that means papers, projects, and exams. - Not to mention all of these injuries are making me feel somewhat numb about lifting. I'm missing out on my favorite exercises! It sucks.
 
Yea I think I am going to switch back to the AD...Also going 6 weeks or so on no-carbs will make me pretty sensative to insulin and should make it easier to pack on another 5-7lbs.

The stress you talk of IC is what took my from 200 down to 185 over the course of about 8 weeks. I was taking 19credit hours and the semester was coming to an end, had an injury that kept me from lifting for a large portion of that time, stressing about where I was going to live and had almost ZERO cash for food. It was rough.

Stay strong my freind. Maybe a complete week off from dieting and lifting maybe what you need? Do whats best for you and come back with that fire. The same fire that has helpd me put on about 20lbs over the course of 12 weeks!
 
Ananbolic Diet​

Meal 1:
6 whole Eggs
2TBS Milled Flax Seed

Meal 2/3/4:
8oz Sirloin*
4 spears Asparagus
1 TBS EVOO

Post Workout:
2 scoops Whey
1TBS Peanut Butter

Meal 6:
6 Whole Eggs
2TBS Milled Flax Seed

Meal 7:
2 scoops 12hr Protein
1TBS EVOO

Calories:
~3,250
Protein:
403
Fat:
177
Carbs:
<20​

*This may be subb'd for fattier, cheaper cuts of meat. This will alter the protein/fat ration some but nothing major in a bad way.

Thats going to be the start of things. I'll actually start this saturday. I'll take my weight saturday morning and then again the following saturday (when I start my carb load) and go form there and see if I shoudl adjust calories.
 
Nice diet bro. I had some great success as well on the Anabolic Diet. Dr. Pasquale's book is also a very good read :)
 
I may have to take a week or so off purely out of necessity. I've got tons of schoolwork to complete, and on top of that, I woke up this morning and could hardly walk around due to my back injuries.
 
Chest/Tri's

I pulled somthing inmy back today at work, it didn't really hinder my workout much....just felt it a little on incline movements and some tricep stuff. Hope its better 2maro.

Decline Hammer Bench
230x15
270x12
280x10
290x7

Hammer Vertical Iso-Flat Bench
180x15
200x10
210x8
215x7

Hammer Iso Incline
140x15
150x12
160x10

Machine Fly
7sets 90x10-12

V-Bar Press Down
70x15
80x12
90x10
100x7

Reverse EZ Bar Press Down
50x15
60x12
70x9
80x6

Neutral Grip Press Down
7sets 40x12

I felt dead going into the gym today so I took 3 RPM and I was ready to go. I mixed 6 scoops Glycer-Grow with 2 Scoops Purple Wraath in 1/2gal and sipp'd on that syrup about 30min before my workout thru the workout and then filled it up again and killed it. I've been pissing non-stop since I got home from the gym.

I noticed my stomach looks funny. It looks like I have hGH gut?!? My abs are kind of sitting on top and bow out. I think it's form all the carbs(and fiber). I'll see how it goes once the AD starts :drillsergeant:
 
Also I may have made a break threw with my hispanic gym peers. I actually had a small conversation with a man who speaks absolutly no english (in spanish obviously). It was about using a machine....a few mintues later another hispanic (who had been talking with the man I had been) asked if i wanted to work in with him...which NEVER happens.
 
Glad you liked the bb hacks bro! Those #s will go up fast just watch!
 
Distilled Water said:
Also I may have made a break threw with my hispanic gym peers. I actually had a small conversation with a man who speaks absolutly no english (in spanish obviously). It was about using a machine....a few mintues later another hispanic (who had been talking with the man I had been) asked if i wanted to work in with him...which NEVER happens.
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RACE WAR! RACE WAR, everybody! It's ON! **** is going down!
 
Just bought Beck's book, btw. I'm on Chp 2. I'll let you know how it is. I'll probably finish it sometime this weekend. Hard to find time to read with all this schoolwork.
 
Distilled Water said:
What do you guys think of grabbing some Androstenetrione at NP with Penatrate? 5gr should suffice in 8oz right? Dose like 150mg 2x's/day (am/pm) as part of PCT?
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I'm not fond of it as part of a pct. 6oxo/trione FEELS great (libido, aggression, etc) in pct but I suspect insufficient estrogen control.

However, TD trione blows the doors off of every prop blend test booster that we like to pimp. I think it's fantastic to stack with a fat burner if you're on an aggressive cutting diet IMO.

Just a side note, go 1/2 and 1/2 with formestane and trione in a TD blend, and whoa!, it's badasss combo :head:
 
celc5 said:
I'm not fond of it as part of a pct. 6oxo/trione FEELS great (libido, aggression, etc) in pct but I suspect insufficient estrogen control.

However, TD trione blows the doors off of every prop blend test booster that we like to pimp. I think it's fantastic to stack with a fat burner if you're on an aggressive cutting diet IMO.

Just a side note, go 1/2 and 1/2 with formestane and trione in a TD blend, and whoa!, it's badasss combo :head:
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That actually sounds pretty good.

Do you do 1:1 ratio? So something like 2.5g Trione + 2.5g Form?
 
Irish Cannon said:
That actually sounds pretty good.

Do you do 1:1 ratio? So something like 2.5g Trione + 2.5g Form?
Click to expand...

Exactly. Since form was hard to come by, I did 1:1 to "make my form last" longer. You know I'm a TD form fan... and I have to say, the combo is BARELY less potent than a typical full dose of form.
 
Ok. I'll probably pick some up and the 1:1 ratio of form and 6-oxo...I was thinking about that today at work!

IC, def let me know how that book is. I'm about 1/3 wya thru my ann coulter book. It's a lot of her articles in there but she givews some outside perspective. I dont know how many/much of her stuff you have read so I can't give you a real shake down, however the book is older, 2005.

Race war....ha. Maybe? They may be trying to lure me in and attack. I did get called a gringo the other day so.....:think:
 
I didn't train today because....I slept from about 4:30 til 8:30. My back is super sore from work today. I was on a machine that invovles a lot of pulling/rowing and it's not easy work either.

I'll hit bi's 2maro and let my back rest. Im also starting AD 2maro mostly because the super market by my house WAS OUT OF SWEET POTATOS!!!!! WTF!!!!!!

Im tired or breans n rice and only have enough left for 2maro anyways. Im still going to train FST-7 for another 2 weeks or so. Thats how long im going to wait to carb load also. I was reading that natural guys should give FST-7 a 4-6 week run then rest after thier first go with it. By natural I assume non-IFBB caliber guys because it seems a good number on jumping on board with this stuff. I'll then move to a depletion/tension workout for the last 4 weeks of the AD then jump back on to a more "normal" diet.....probably.
 
I want to try that CKD diet, but man, I can't sacrifice my health. I want my fruit and grains every morning!...So I'm basically CKD less breakfast. Ha - Since I'll be training fasted, and my breakfast is Meal 1 post-workout, I guess I'm on a TKD diet.
 
Irish Cannon said:
I want to try that CKD diet, but man, I can't sacrifice my health. I want my fruit and grains every morning!...So I'm basically CKD less breakfast. Ha - Since I'll be training fasted, and my breakfast is Meal 1 post-workout, I guess I'm on a TKD diet.
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It's not that un-healthy. I was slightly worried also at first because I have a family history of heart, colon, and blood pressure problems. I've gotten bloodwork done while on a CKD and was fine. Actually im HDL was up a little.

Grains....blah,lol. Actually thats what my sunday is. All complex carbs. It's a lot of ezekiel cereal, bread, and sweet potato's. I never really liked fruit all that much. I go thru phases with it.
 
Distilled Water said:
It's not that un-healthy. I was slightly worried also at first because I have a family history of heart, colon, and blood pressure problems. I've gotten bloodwork done while on a CKD and was fine. Actually im HDL was up a little.

Grains....blah,lol. Actually thats what my sunday is. All complex carbs. It's a lot of ezekiel cereal, bread, and sweet potato's. I never really liked fruit all that much. I go thru phases with it.
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I just had my breakfast consisting of...

6oz chicken breast
4 whole eggs
2 slices Ezekiel bread w/honey
1 bowl blueberries/raspberries

The rest of my day is carb-free minus what I get from broccoli. On workout days, I immediately have a shake with 30g ground steel cut oats, then that same breakfast, but after that I'm carb-free again. This was my most recent diet change.

Now that my body is all busted up I'm kind of confused on what to do. Should I take in more carbs for the healing process? - I'll be taking off until Monday which is a huge bummer to me. I would really like to lift but it's just not feasible at this point.
 
IC,
what's the injury? I bet I can help.

Concerning the diet, I'm sure you realize that if you're taking in 25+ g/carbs per day you probably won't go into ketosis. In my personal opinion, if someone isn't shooting for ketosis, the best diet plan is to spread out carbs throughout the entire day. You still control your overall cals and grams carbs, but it's a steady flow for energy. Just taking in carbs for 2 of maybe 6 or 8 meals in my opinion might be less productive than spreading em out and you'd probably feel better.
 
celc5 said:
IC,
what's the injury? I bet I can help.

Concerning the diet, I'm sure you realize that if you're taking in 25+ g/carbs per day you probably won't go into ketosis. In my personal opinion, if someone isn't shooting for ketosis, the best diet plan is to spread out carbs throughout the entire day. You still control your overall cals and grams carbs, but it's a steady flow for energy. Just taking in carbs for 2 of maybe 6 or 8 meals in my opinion might be less productive than spreading em out and you'd probably feel better.
Click to expand...

Ya, this is probably true, but I want to lower carbs gradually rather than all at once. I usually dip into TKD, and then I'll do CKD after a couple weeks.

I hurt my back. So now I have two back injuries. A (probable) bulging disc in my lower back, and a sprain in my right mid-back.

Oh, and I got some gyno from HGW yesterday. Trying to treat it with the few doses of Nolva I have left. I've been taking HGW for about 2.5-3 weeks @ 3g/day. I normally always take an AI with these things, but this is the one time I didn't.
 
Irish Cannon said:
Ya, this is probably true, but I want to lower carbs gradually rather than all at once. I usually dip into TKD, and then I'll do CKD after a couple weeks.

I hurt my back. So now I have two back injuries. A (probable) bulging disc in my lower back, and a sprain in my right mid-back.

Oh, and I got some gyno from HGW yesterday. Trying to treat it with the few doses of Nolva I have left. I've been taking HGW for about 2.5-3 weeks @ 3g/day. I normally always take an AI with these things, but this is the one time I didn't.
Click to expand...

Ok, no prob with the diet. This post tells me that you're on the right track (it's possible that I missed the details before so my bad LOL)

No way you can tell what your back injury is. A back muscle strain can feel like death for about a week and suddenly resolve itself. IMO take 5-7 days off from the gym, ice it, take your NSAIDS. If it's not better by mid next week, time to see the doc.

I experience the same thing with icariin/HGW. I like that stuff but don't take it anymore since it makes my lump flare :rant: I suggest d/c the hgw and use formestane instead of the nolve. After form kills the lump, THEN bridge into some nolva so you don't rebound after the form. Just my 2c.
 
celc5 said:
Ok, no prob with the diet. This post tells me that you're on the right track (it's possible that I missed the details before so my bad LOL)

No way you can tell what your back injury is. A back muscle strain can feel like death for about a week and suddenly resolve itself. IMO take 5-7 days off from the gym, ice it, take your NSAIDS. If it's not better by mid next week, time to see the doc.

I experience the same thing with icariin/HGW. I like that stuff but don't take it anymore since it makes my lump flare :rant: I suggest d/c the hgw and use formestane instead of the nolve. After form kills the lump, THEN bridge into some nolva so you don't rebound after the form. Just my 2c.
Click to expand...

Ya, I don't expect my lower back to heal soon, but this mid-back strain I'm hoping gets better in the next couple of days.

I should have consulted you on the HGW, AND I also should have been smarter and ran an AI with it like I normally would have. That was stupid of me...I took your advice and dropped the $75 on two bottles of CEL Form. Money I was hoping to save. :( - I really hope one bottle does the trick. I could use the other for my cycle in October.

What's your recommended dosing? I was going to do 6 pumps/4/4/2.
 
Thursday: Biceps

Wide Grip BB Curl
75x12
75x11
95x7

Seated DB Curl
35x12
40x11
45x10

Pin Wheel Curls
3 sets 45x8

Concentration Curls
7sets 15x10

The Cable station was taken....

Friday: Legs

I did a DC leg workout because I was short on time. Also, my legs look SOOOOO unpropotional! WTF...They have always been slightly but this is bad. I dont know what Im doing different that I have in the past? Im super pissed about this bc my right leg is ****n huge and my left is...idk normal?

IC, Yea def stick with the TKD and work into the CKD. Starting Monday I think im going to go with the Palumbo diet over the CKD...it's really just a TKD but I wanted to give it a fancy name,lol.
 
QUESTION​

What test booster do you guys think I should use?​

I've got about a 3/4 bottle of DTH i'm going to run....somthing like 5/4/3/2 after the starting dose.

I was thinking about Prime but $100? If I would do that I'd just get the ASTEROID Stack....its like $119? I'd get of them. I used Prime before and had good success but shelling out the $ again, IDK.

Any and all suggestions are welcome, plus if any of you reps want a bad ass log.....hola at cha boy :147:
 
Well, PRIME isn't really a Test booster. I mean, I'm a fan of AI's more than test-boosters. I like stacking the two, but I'd usually got for an AI over a test booster if I was to just pick one.

Now, I actually really liked this bulk HGW I was using; unfortunately I got gyno from it from my own stupidity (not using an AI in conjunction), so I would recommend HGW + some type of AI. Maybe Formestane...and LG has out the new T-911 with a stronger AI in it (7,8 benz derivative).
 
Irish Cannon said:
Well, PRIME isn't really a Test booster. I mean, I'm a fan of AI's more than test-boosters. I like stacking the two, but I'd usually got for an AI over a test booster if I was to just pick one.

Now, I actually really liked this bulk HGW I was using; unfortunately I got gyno from it from my own stupidity (not using an AI in conjunction), so I would recommend HGW + some type of AI. Maybe Formestane...and LG has out the new T-911 with a stronger AI in it (7,8 benz derivative).
Click to expand...

Yea after I posted that I was thinking the same thing. Glad you kinda knew what I ment tho.

I threw out the transdermal idea, sorry guys. Contact with the lady friend and stuff. I dont want anything fishy to happen ya know?

T-911 huh? When I was repping for LG I had about a week's worth of the first batch but I dont even remember if it did much for me. It is kinda cheap tho so maybe DTH+T-911?

You rep for LG right IC? Could you point me in the direction of some T-911 feedback, or personal?
 
IC,
concerning form dosage, I used 1 pump 2-3 times per day while I was ON cycle. Even ON cycle, that still killed my lump in about 10-14 days. Also keep in mind that I've had it down many times, but it always comes back. At some point when I get it down, I'll bridge into a serm which I HOPE will prevent the rebound.

IMO TD formestane is money well spent. and IMO you bought way more than enough. It's the best thing on the market besides running a designer IMO.

DW,
I second IC's opinion on the HGW. If you don't have a gyno history, it's surprisely potent for libido, sexual performance, and a bit of aggression.

Also, if you've never tried TD trione (bulk androstenetrione powder aka 6oxo), it's a real cheap way to increase aggression in the gym and get a mild bonus leaning effect. TD trione gets my 2nd Place award next to TD form :D It was on sale at NP the other day, but I'd bet it was gone in like 3 seconds LOL
 
Well I think im just goin to go with DTHC. Starting it 2maro. Im pissed actually, I think gyno may have gotten worse! Maybe just a little puffy because im flat and a little bloated (higher sodium intake) It's def not any better. Nothing special has even happpend.

I weighd 198 this morning (4 days with no carbs dropped about 7lbs). I feel flat (obviously) but I dont soo much care about that. I havne't gotten un-naturally stonger or anything. I still have a bottle of Epistane, idk what i'll do with it. If any of you guys want to trade for it, im game.

I also pick'd up some VAT Attack from USP Labs. I was just going to use Clen for cortisol but I can't take the jitters of headaches from it. Maybe i'll use that in after VAT?

I am also going to take next week off from lifting to better transition into the No-Carb diet. I'll hit up 30min of cardio in the evening but thats it. Im going to go a total of 12 days before I start adding carbs Pre & Post workout. It'll be a TKD.

I'll also be eating Tilapia this week, it was on sale and they only had 6lbs of london broil out and the butcher was closed. The extra fat should help.

Other than that im pretty frustrated with my situation from the past 4 weeks. It started off great but then pleatued after a week or 2. Maybe I was expecting too much? I dont think so. Diet/Training/Supplements were spot on this entire time, My only guess is my job is more physically demanding that I thought? I do work about 9hr/day and I noticed the most progress when I was away from work for those 5-6 day breaks then when I got laid off. Then I started back this week (which was only suppose to be part time but turned into full-time) and gains game to a hault.
 
I'm sorry to hear that, bro. Was it Epistane that you used for your cycle? I've never had great results with anything but Epidrol. Now, I had to purchase some E-Stane only because Epidrol was out when I made that order, so I can only hope I react to it the same.

I've used Havoc, and it helped a little, but gyno returned during the cycle; I made the switch from Havoc to Epidrol DURING the cycle (I also increased dosage from 40mg to 50mg) and gyno went away within a week.

I'm not saying for sure that Epidrol is what did it...maybe it was the increased dosage, but it made a difference.

Have you tried the new Formestane products yet? Celc and I seem to agree on the fact that the new carrier really seems to help a lot with gyno reduction. From what I understand, his gyno went away while on the old Form, but returned; on the new stuff it went away and stayed away. - It worked this way for me as well, but returned a few days ago from the HGW, albeit, in a different spot on my nipple.

I wouldn't worry too much about the lack of progress. You'll come around There's plenty more to worry about than bodybuilding.

Oh, and I just started using Coleus for fat loss. Have you used it before? Maybe you could use some of that rather than dealing with Clen. I know it's totally different, but it's something to think about. It would probably work good with VAT, or would it be too similar? - I know they both elevate cAMP levels.
 
DW,
IMO, you started a cycle, might as well get some anabolic effects from it. If I were you, I'd start ramping my epithio dosage and keep it going. Then in pct, get some Nolva and formestane to kill the lump.

IC,
Nope. Old and new form killed the lump and it came back every time. That's why I want to run form to get it down and then bridge into a serm to see if I can prevent the rebound.

Prop blends that have coleus are great for me for fat loss. I'm talking like I can tell a difference in 2-3 days. Unfortunately, I have a sensitive stomach and I end up spending all day on the toilet with coleus (aka forslean) :rant: So, no Hypedrol, no AdipoX anymore for me :(
 
Irish Cannon said:
I'm sorry to hear that, bro. Was it Epistane that you used for your cycle? I've never had great results with anything but Epidrol. Now, I had to purchase some E-Stane only because Epidrol was out when I made that order, so I can only hope I react to it the same.

I've used Havoc, and it helped a little, but gyno returned during the cycle; I made the switch from Havoc to Epidrol DURING the cycle (I also increased dosage from 40mg to 50mg) and gyno went away within a week.

I'm not saying for sure that Epidrol is what did it...maybe it was the increased dosage, but it made a difference.
Click to expand...

I was under the (possibly false) impression that Havoc, Epistane, and Epidrol, and all these damn epi-clones were essentially the same thing once they came to be broken down in the body.

Does anybody else share IC's idea that one of the epi-clones are more likely to reduce gyno than the others? I've had a bottle of havoc on-hand for a short cutting cycle and i'm hoping for some gyno reduction as well... but I have pretty bad case so i'm not betting on it.
 
I get no gyno reduction from either Havoc or Epistane. Initially, there is some reduction but then it tends to get worse. Formestane TD aggravates it as well. Had good reduction with 6-bromo and Toremifene.
 
Irish Cannon said:
Oh, and I just started using Coleus for fat loss. Have you used it before? Maybe you could use some of that rather than dealing with Clen. I know it's totally different, but it's something to think about. It would probably work good with VAT, or would it be too similar? - I know they both elevate cAMP levels.
Click to expand...

Yea I have, I did really like it. I still have some NP caps along with a container of bulk NP stuff. I'll throw a 1/4t. down the hatch every morning and take a 20mg cap each night before bed, why not?!?!

Yes I do have IBE Epistane
 
celc5 said:
DW,
IMO, you started a cycle, might as well get some anabolic effects from it. If I were you, I'd start ramping my epithio dosage and keep it going. Then in pct, get some Nolva and formestane to kill the lump.
Click to expand...

Hmm...ok I havent started DTHC just yet so I'll take 50mg/day until im out and see what happens.

celc5 said:
Prop blends that have coleus are great for me for fat loss. I'm talking like I can tell a difference in 2-3 days. Unfortunately, I have a sensitive stomach and I end up spending all day on the toilet with coleus (aka forslean) :rant: So, no Hypedrol, no AdipoX anymore for me :(
Click to expand...

I logg'd Gerneric Labs Cissus-Drol, which was simlar to Hyperdrol and wow, same affect here. However now it's not so bad for me....seems like I have built an iron stomach for coleus
 
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