CombatTested
New member
Why should someone not run a ph/ds if they have not reached their genetic potential? Will it hurt future gains or what?
Genetic potential
- Thread starter CombatTested
- Start date
surreallmlan
New member
Interested in hearing about this. I here a lot of people say this, but not why.
UnrealMachine
Well-known member
People should attain a high level of training before they start steroids so that they know enough about their body to use steroids effectively.
I see gains as the product of several variables, one being DIET, one being TRAINING, and a couple constants (genetics, supplements).
If you start workign with steroids before you've got diet and training down it's harder for you to dial those in because the steroids will cause immediate gains that you will go back to.... Lots of people blow up and get small again and do this for years. It's pathetic really.
It takes a long time to understand diet and training. Lot of good weightlifters here, lot of good bodybuilders, lot of smart people... Still I am amazed by the amount of people who do not know diet at all. When I see logs that include less than 5 meals or lots of crappy junk food I am disgusted. Steroids are not here to compensate for a deficiency in the most important variables (DIET AND TRAINING) but to keep the gains coming strong after everything has been put into place.
Before you start, experiment with different training methods. There's hitting everything 1x a week, hitting everything twice a week, DC training, powerlifting... etc etc there's a lot of ways to train and you need to find out what works best for your body. You also need to experiment with rep ranges, over the years i fine tuned everything to working pretty heavy and I love it.
As for diet, well diet is the hardest part of bodybuilding and the most important part and the most neglected part.... As anyone on this board worth their salt will tell you... Diet is key and a poor diet is the #1 cause of bad cycle results. IMO 5 meals a day is a minimum. I'm usually getting 7 meals right now (and i'm recomping). You have to get enough protein (I do 300g a day as a minimum). Have to balance your carbs out right (morning, around the workout, not at night). And you have to work vegetables and REAL FOOD into your diet as well, you can't just drink muscle milk all day.
Anyway, bottom line, you figure out everything before you use steroids and so when you do cycle you will make them count more and you will be putting your body through the cycles for a better reason. I really think everyone should lift hard for a while and build up a pretty good base layer of muscle before they touch anything.
By a good base layer of muscle... I think you should be able to rep 225 on bench, as an example of the upper body strength you should achieve naturally. Surprisingly few people here seem to wait that long. But really repping 2 plates isn't hard... you look at any high school football team doing bench and the medium strength kids are repping 185 the stronger kids are repping 225 and some seniors or those few with good genetics are repping 275 and maxing over 300... No one juiced at my high school and we had a pretty crappy football team... These are normal people after 2-4 years of seasonal weightlifting... IT'S NOT HARD TO DO...
I see gains as the product of several variables, one being DIET, one being TRAINING, and a couple constants (genetics, supplements).
If you start workign with steroids before you've got diet and training down it's harder for you to dial those in because the steroids will cause immediate gains that you will go back to.... Lots of people blow up and get small again and do this for years. It's pathetic really.
It takes a long time to understand diet and training. Lot of good weightlifters here, lot of good bodybuilders, lot of smart people... Still I am amazed by the amount of people who do not know diet at all. When I see logs that include less than 5 meals or lots of crappy junk food I am disgusted. Steroids are not here to compensate for a deficiency in the most important variables (DIET AND TRAINING) but to keep the gains coming strong after everything has been put into place.
Before you start, experiment with different training methods. There's hitting everything 1x a week, hitting everything twice a week, DC training, powerlifting... etc etc there's a lot of ways to train and you need to find out what works best for your body. You also need to experiment with rep ranges, over the years i fine tuned everything to working pretty heavy and I love it.
As for diet, well diet is the hardest part of bodybuilding and the most important part and the most neglected part.... As anyone on this board worth their salt will tell you... Diet is key and a poor diet is the #1 cause of bad cycle results. IMO 5 meals a day is a minimum. I'm usually getting 7 meals right now (and i'm recomping). You have to get enough protein (I do 300g a day as a minimum). Have to balance your carbs out right (morning, around the workout, not at night). And you have to work vegetables and REAL FOOD into your diet as well, you can't just drink muscle milk all day.
Anyway, bottom line, you figure out everything before you use steroids and so when you do cycle you will make them count more and you will be putting your body through the cycles for a better reason. I really think everyone should lift hard for a while and build up a pretty good base layer of muscle before they touch anything.
By a good base layer of muscle... I think you should be able to rep 225 on bench, as an example of the upper body strength you should achieve naturally. Surprisingly few people here seem to wait that long. But really repping 2 plates isn't hard... you look at any high school football team doing bench and the medium strength kids are repping 185 the stronger kids are repping 225 and some seniors or those few with good genetics are repping 275 and maxing over 300... No one juiced at my high school and we had a pretty crappy football team... These are normal people after 2-4 years of seasonal weightlifting... IT'S NOT HARD TO DO...
Chubbinmuffin
Active member
Very good post, unreal.
ccapone1153
Member
unreal post, unreal lol
he is dead on accurate. DIET is the most important aspect to getting huge.
secondly isnt it kinda commen sense, if you can grow naturally why would you want to **** around with juice. enjoy the natural gains. then once you have put on 30 -40lbs naturally and have plauted for a few months you ahve probably reached your genetic potential so then start looking at other options. assuming ur trainnig and diet is spot on. start with normal supps, like creatine then 6 months after that start looking at mroe serious supps...
and research the sh!t outta steriods before you ever consider putting them into your body!!
he is dead on accurate. DIET is the most important aspect to getting huge.
secondly isnt it kinda commen sense, if you can grow naturally why would you want to **** around with juice. enjoy the natural gains. then once you have put on 30 -40lbs naturally and have plauted for a few months you ahve probably reached your genetic potential so then start looking at other options. assuming ur trainnig and diet is spot on. start with normal supps, like creatine then 6 months after that start looking at mroe serious supps...
and research the sh!t outta steriods before you ever consider putting them into your body!!
UnrealMachine
Well-known member
x2. I forgot to say this but really steroids are very powerful tools and we don't know how our body will respond until we try them. Some people will lose hair, some people will lose libido, some people are very prone to gyno, some people's BP gets jacked up too easily. The only thing we have to make the cycles safe and effective is knowledge. And using the knowledge to get the proper ancillaries (serms, AI's, supports etc) and employ them right.
suncloud
Well-known member
its really disappointing to start taking steroids when you're nowhere close to big enough. then when you hit a decent weight - what most people consider average, there's no pride.
furthermore, as unreal posted, if you can't figure out how to grow naturally through diet and training, you won't maintain any of the gains you would from on cycle, which just leads to cycle after cycle, and more and more disappointment, and the eventual "supplements don't work", when in reality, you're not working enough for your supplements to do anything...
i don't think there's a set limit on when its OK to use gear, but certain goals must be met - sub 13% body fat, or bulking to 30% more than your normal weight, etc. you should be at a point where you feel ready for it, not the skinny guy that wants the magic pill. IMO.
furthermore, as unreal posted, if you can't figure out how to grow naturally through diet and training, you won't maintain any of the gains you would from on cycle, which just leads to cycle after cycle, and more and more disappointment, and the eventual "supplements don't work", when in reality, you're not working enough for your supplements to do anything...
i don't think there's a set limit on when its OK to use gear, but certain goals must be met - sub 13% body fat, or bulking to 30% more than your normal weight, etc. you should be at a point where you feel ready for it, not the skinny guy that wants the magic pill. IMO.
Zero V
Well-known member
for most people on here, 10-12 years training then looking for it, basically puts them at TRT age anyways :laugh2:
IMO steroids are either for you, or not, and its a personal call. There is no magical point to reach, again IMO. But I do believe you should know darn well how to train and eat before starting em. At the same time, there is no excuse to ever use them, even after genetic potential. So no one really can really talk down to someone who uses it before that, because its just as pointless. If anything I am one of the ones that believe using them to excel you towards your genetic potential(technically your body at its best) is far better than blasting above it and slowly dropping back down repeatedly.
ccapone1153
Member
i disagree with this.
you can reach your gentetic potential naturally. hence the phrase ''genetic potential" lol if you use gear to bring you above this, you can maintain the aquired mass through deligent diet. if you gain A TON past your genetic potential your body will fight the change, but if you do it slowly your homiostasis set point will keep adjusting and you can maitain assuming you train hard and have perfect nutrition.
CombatTested
New member
Thank you to all of you this thread has been overwhemingly helpful...its just that the phrase genetic potential gets thrown around alot and I never understand what people mean when they drop it...but this has definatly helped me a great deal...I dont believe I am anywhere near ready to take them so dont get me wrong in that aspect i realize I have alot more to learn even if i do think i know alot...they are very intriging tho lol
UnrealMachine
Well-known member
Bro I am still confused by genetic potential. I don't think I have reached mine. I can always get bigger, gaining muscle is not an issue for me... Doing it without gaining massive amounts of fat is an issue. Steroids have helped me be big and lean, and may really have helped me the most in cut cycles.
nemo
Well-known member
If you are just beginning to train your body, this is not the time to mess with anabolic steroids. The best results attained from anabolic steroid use occur in experienced trainers who have mastered lifting technique and who are dedicated dieters.
A minimum of 2 years of dedicated bodybuilding dieting and training should be in your immediate past before the thought of steroid use is considered. This does not mean that you have trained two times a week for a couple of years, only missing about 50 scheduled workouts, and downed a couple of protein shakes. It means that you don't miss workouts, that you rarely deviate from a muscle building diet and you have made some very impressive gains naturally and now are nearing your genetic potential (though you are likely still far away from it).
Consider 2 years as an absolute minimum, many experts and pro-steroid people recommend more. Some suggest as many as 8-10 years of natural training should be in your rearview mirror before steroid use is considered.
The results of bodybuilding steroid use, like the results from any bodybuilding supplement, are highly dependant on training and diet and if you do not have knowledge, dedication and experience in these areas you are unlikely to achieve the results that can possibly justify the risks and the costs.
A minimum of 2 years of dedicated bodybuilding dieting and training should be in your immediate past before the thought of steroid use is considered. This does not mean that you have trained two times a week for a couple of years, only missing about 50 scheduled workouts, and downed a couple of protein shakes. It means that you don't miss workouts, that you rarely deviate from a muscle building diet and you have made some very impressive gains naturally and now are nearing your genetic potential (though you are likely still far away from it).
Consider 2 years as an absolute minimum, many experts and pro-steroid people recommend more. Some suggest as many as 8-10 years of natural training should be in your rearview mirror before steroid use is considered.
The results of bodybuilding steroid use, like the results from any bodybuilding supplement, are highly dependant on training and diet and if you do not have knowledge, dedication and experience in these areas you are unlikely to achieve the results that can possibly justify the risks and the costs.
CombatTested
New member
im a college kid we dont stick to diets very long lol no but seriously im just starting to learn the diet part of bodybuilding...i realize i am no wea near ready to take them belive me..im just tring to soak up all the knowledge i can