fu**king newbs stop saying no to serms

Reaper329 said:
again mikey, that is not with 100% certainty. I have run my fair shar of items, never with the help of a serm, and have not had any issue as a result. I would refer you back to Easy's comments above.
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Yeah Easys post was great but at the end of the day if you felt you had gyno coming on what would you want in your cupboard?

You didnt get Gyno.... well done! Others do!
 
mikeyb123 said:
Yeah Easys post was great but at the end of the day if you felt you had gyno coming on what would you want in your cupboard?

You didnt get Gyno.... well done! Others do!
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you prove my point. It is an individual issue, not a 100% certainty. Thanks for assisting me :)
 
Reaper329 said:
you prove my point. It is an individual issue, not a 100% certainty. Thanks for assisting me :)
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Well if you read my original post you would have seen I agree with that anyway. Some people are fine without SERMS but when giving out advice you should always recomend a SERM to a new person. Let them do the research and weigh up the risk of not having a SERM on hand.
 
mikeyb123 said:
Well if you read my original post you would have seen I agree with that anyway. Some people are fine without SERMS but when giving out advice you should always recomend a SERM to a new person. Let them do the research and weigh up the risk of not having a SERM on hand.
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I agree with the above.

I have used a serm after a cycle of d.s. (sd/pp/hd stack) and not used a serm after a cycle of aas. (t-bol/var) with the ds, even with nolva+ animal stak2, pct was long and difficult. but with the tbol/var stack, all I needed was a natural test booster.

This is because the ds caused much more severe hpta shut down, than tbol/var. it is a good idea for anyone, new or experienced for years, to research all they can about the anabolic they are taking, and also pct, and it's hit or miss with your body, but up to you to know what will work for it, but if you dont know and are new to aas, a serm+ nat. test booster is always going to be your safest bet. i'd rather have too much coverage than not enough. serms are good, but they are not always needed. and remember, more gains, more sides, thats life, nothing is free.
 
IM BACK!!!!!....sorry guys...my girl forced me to go to dinner and a movie last night....next time im gonna take a page out of b's book and tell her to STFU im arguin with people online.....its nice to be missed...you guys are swell...not swoll...swell...
 
oh man i had that happen to me too. girlz....... always distracting us when we r most anabolic....

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What about the responsibility of the supplement companies in this matter? They produce legal compounds that are advertised all over the place, but could require the use of an illegal drug to keep you healthy. The ads don't suggest or recomend the need of a serm so this could be part of the problem. Unfortunatley people see these ads and want the "increased muscle and strength" and aren't even aware of the consequences of taking these supps. Their thought process is it's legal so it can't be dangerous. Supp companies make alterations to illegal compunds and sell them legally, why not do the same with serms. Then they could be marketed together. I just feel it is irresponsible to promote a legal product that could require the use of an illegal one, and there is no mention of this in the marketing.
 
jsl said:
What about the responsibility of the supplement companies in this matter? They produce legal compounds that are advertised all over the place, but could require the use of an illegal drug to keep you healthy. The ads don't suggest or recomend the need of a serm so this could be part of the problem. Unfortunatley people see these ads and want the "increased muscle and strength" and aren't even aware of the consequences of taking these supps. Their thought process is it's legal so it can't be dangerous. Supp companies make alterations to illegal compunds and sell them legally, why not do the same with serms. Then they could be marketed together. I just feel it is irresponsible to promote a legal product that could require the use of an illegal one, and there is no mention of this in the marketing.
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do you really think that the companies producing otc orals are concerned with moral responsibility?.....these companies operate in a gray area of our legal system....they are selling steroids....cmon bro....i love a good otc oral as much as the next guy...but you have to be realistic....would you expect your crack dealer to pay for your rehab because he is the one who got you hooked?....it is the responsibility of the user to research whatever they are putting in their body.....
 
mikeyb123 said:
Well if you read my original post you would have seen I agree with that anyway. Some people are fine without SERMS but when giving out advice you should always recomend a SERM to a new person. Let them do the research and weigh up the risk of not having a SERM on hand.
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I still don't quite agree recommending to use a SERM in PCT to a new person, but recommending they have or have fast access to one, and understand the difference between gyno, and normal sides of hormonal fluctuations. I still haven't used a SERM, and don't really intend to.
 
Wow....great action in the forums.

Question:
If one does a 45 minute cycle with their girl, isnt it recommended post cycle to apply transdermal SpERM to her facial muscles for maximum absorption? I recommend it!
 
mooch2321 said:
do you really think that the companies producing otc orals are concerned with moral responsibility?.....these companies operate in a gray area of our legal system....they are selling steroids....cmon bro....i love a good otc oral as much as the next guy...but you have to be realistic....would you expect your crack dealer to pay for your rehab because he is the one who got you hooked?....it is the responsibility of the user to research whatever they are putting in their body.....
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I like otc supps too and agree that people should research what they use. But cigerettes and alcohol didn't use to have labels on them either and many people suffered because of it. I wouldn't expect anything from a crack dealer except to get me crack, since it is an illegal act. But supp comps are selling legal products and should have some moral responsibility. I'm not asking for them to pay for anything (unless they want to). It just seems that if they can change a few molecules here and there and create a legal supp then they could do the same with a serm. It would be another chance to make money. There are a lot of people that don't even see the need to research these products, since they see healthy athletes endorsing them and figure that they are safe. And since the majority of these products are relatively new compounds how much research can they really do. Nobody knows what effects they will have on people down the road.
 
jsl said:
I like otc supps too and agree that people should research what they use. But cigerettes and alcohol didn't use to have labels on them either and many people suffered because of it. I wouldn't expect anything from a crack dealer except to get me crack, since it is an illegal act. But supp comps are selling legal products and should have some moral responsibility. I'm not asking for them to pay for anything (unless they want to). It just seems that if they can change a few molecules here and there and create a legal supp then they could do the same with a serm. It would be another chance to make money. There are a lot of people that don't even see the need to research these products, since they see healthy athletes endorsing them and figure that they are safe. And since the majority of these products are relatively new compounds how much research can they really do. Nobody knows what effects they will have on people down the road.
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so you want an over the counter serm? ever heard of resveritrol?????....Bam...that just happened...shake and bake....
 
cmc said:
Wow....great action in the forums.

Question:
If one does a 45 minute cycle with their girl, isnt it recommended post cycle to apply transdermal SpERM to her facial muscles for maximum absorption? I recommend it!
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i prefer an oral application with my girl....
 
I don't know if this helps..I can't explain the technical reasons why serms work for PCT,but I'VE done cycles with no PCT, I've done cycle with hcg and serm for PCT,and I've done Serm ONLY for pct ...I Really prefered the Serm only over no serm.it's got to be doing something because it gets my testicles in working order..Although The HCG and SERM are the BEST without a doubt
 
Bigchourico said:
I don't know if this helps..I can't explain the technical reasons why serms work for PCT,but I'VE done cycles with no PCT, I've done cycle with hcg and serm for PCT,and I've done Serm ONLY for pct ...I Really prefered the Serm only over no serm.it's got to be doing something because it gets my testicles in working order..Although The HCG and SERM are the BEST without a doubt
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so...what your saying is serms really wake up your balls?
 
Bigchourico said:
I don't know if this helps..I can't explain the technical reasons why serms work for PCT,but I'VE done cycles with no PCT, I've done cycle with hcg and serm for PCT,and I've done Serm ONLY for pct ...I Really prefered the Serm only over no serm.it's got to be doing something because it gets my testicles in working order..Although The HCG and SERM are the BEST without a doubt
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did you ever just do hcg the last week or so of cycle and into pct but no serm?
 
Bigchourico said:
I don't know if this helps..I can't explain the technical reasons why serms work for PCT,but I'VE done cycles with no PCT, I've done cycle with hcg and serm for PCT,and I've done Serm ONLY for pct ...I Really prefered the Serm only over no serm.it's got to be doing something because it gets my testicles in working order..Although The HCG and SERM are the BEST without a doubt
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I dont think there is an arguments that SERMs wont bring you back faster than OTC, i think ppl are trying to argue that you dont necessarily need a SERM

but my thought is why would you not use a SERM if it brings you back faster that OTC?
 
warbird01 said:
I dont think there is an arguments that SERMs wont bring you back faster than OTC, i think ppl are trying to argue that you dont necessarily need a SERM

but my thought is why would you not use a SERM if it brings you back faster that OTC?
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Cause all of life is Risk vs Reward. The question you have to answer yourself is whether the risk:reward profile of using a SERM is better than the risk:reward profile of using OTC, given your own body, prior blood tests, prior cycles, this particular cycle, etc
 
Ok, call me an immature **** ( I am ) But I just sat back, threw back two beers (Sunday arvo in Aus) and read this whole thread....Not because i care bout serm/no serm, but just because it was so fukin entertaining :D
 
EasyEJL said:
did you ever just do hcg the last week or so of cycle and into pct but no serm?
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this is interesting....but one of yalls arguments is legality of a serm....on the other hand tho...hcg into a iccarin based test booster would probably work well.....
 
mooch2321 said:
so you want an over the counter serm? ever heard of resveritrol?????....Bam...that just happened...shake and bake....
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Good point Talledega. I have heard of it , but don't know much about it. I only see the illegal serms recommended. I'll check it out.
 
Looked up resveritrol, and according to log 197 it is an AI and not listed as a serm. Log 197 also states that to legally obtain a serm you need a prescription, and that there aren't any otc serms. I know that that log came from another thread that I previously read. So does it act as a serm would?

I'm no doctor or chemist. Haven't studied chem since highschool and a lot of this stuff is confusing to me. I do have a college education however and am trying to learn about all of this. It just gets hard when almost every post contrdicts another.
 
jsl said:
Looked up resveritrol, and according to log 197 it is an AI and not listed as a serm. Log 197 also states that to legally obtain a serm you need a prescription, and that there aren't any otc serms. I know that that log came from another thread that I previously read. So does it act as a serm would?

I'm no doctor or chemist. Haven't studied chem since highschool and a lot of this stuff is confusing to me. I do have a college education however and am trying to learn about all of this. It just gets hard when almost every post contrdicts another.
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do some more research on it...it does act as a serm..not as effective as nolva but yes....
 
one way to use hcg is during the time pre-pct....run hcg two weeks post cycle and this will simulate lh function....then start clomid after hcg and this will stimulate lh funtion...notice the difference.....this regimen sort of tricks your hpta into jumpstarting....
 
mooch2321 said:
one way to use hcg is during the time pre-pct....run hcg two weeks post cycle and this will simulate lh function....then start clomid after hcg and this will stimulate lh funtion...notice the difference.....this regimen sort of tricks your hpta into jumpstarting....
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yeah I was just reading about that on a UK body building site. Good info. They were using it every 4 to 5 days. How were you using it during your 2 week post cycle?:dl:
 
warbird01 said:
I dont think there is an arguments that SERMs wont bring you back faster than OTC, i think ppl are trying to argue that you dont necessarily need a SERM

but my thought is why would you not use a SERM if it brings you back faster that OTC?
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Anything that brings me back faster is a GOD SEND...
 
for hcg info anthony roberts goes into great detail on how to use it, and why it works/is the best option if available.

if you have the ability to get ahold of hcg+ nolva or clomid, this is the best combo, when used correctly for pct hands down. it will bring you back faster, and retain all if not most of your gains. but you have to inject hcg, and for some, that is a problem, for w/e reason, could be your afraid to inject, could be your wife will leave you if she finds vials and needles. but w/e reason, serm +hcg used correctly (proper dosage, and length of time) will be the very best pct.

I used to vow, "I will never use otc pct, it's crap" but after my last order of tamoxifen, the box saying "manufactured in india" the wife put a stop on all prescription serms. (that box of 60ct 20mg tamox by the way, all flushed down the toilet).
So now I find my self researching from scratch otc pct, what works, what doesn't ect, it's alot more difficult than tomixifen + T. booster. that is for sure.

I wasn't too happy with reversitol, didn't have the same feeling as tamoxifen, but it did work. but how well would it work with a 10 or 12 week cycle? who knows.

the point is, serms aren't always an option for some, and for others, otc pct may be too much to deal with, or not enough, I feel a person should research how long, and the type of anabolic used on cycle to decide the type of pct, and if you are taking an anabolic that will cause enough hpta shut down, the best should be used, but if the best isn't available, other options should be carefully researched.
 
jbryand101b said:
for hcg info anthony roberts goes into great detail on how to use it, and why it works/is the best option if available.

if you have the ability to get ahold of hcg+ nolva or clomid, this is the best combo, when used correctly for pct hands down. it will bring you back faster, and retain all if not most of your gains. but you have to inject hcg, and for some, that is a problem, for w/e reason, could be your afraid to inject, could be your wife will leave you if she finds vials and needles. but w/e reason, serm +hcg used correctly (proper dosage, and length of time) will be the very best pct.

I used to vow, "I will never use otc pct, it's crap" but after my last order of tamoxifen, the box saying "manufactured in india" the wife put a stop on all prescription serms. (that box of 60ct 20mg tamox by the way, all flushed down the toilet).
So now I find my self researching from scratch otc pct, what works, what doesn't ect, it's alot more difficult than tomixifen + T. booster. that is for sure.

I wasn't too happy with reversitol, didn't have the same feeling as tamoxifen, but it did work. but how well would it work with a 10 or 12 week cycle? who knows.

the point is, serms aren't always an option for some, and for others, otc pct may be too much to deal with, or not enough, I feel a person should research how long, and the type of anabolic used on cycle to decide the type of pct, and if you are taking an anabolic that will cause enough hpta shut down, the best should be used, but if the best isn't available, other options should be carefully researched.
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lots of stuff here i dont get....why would being manufactured in india make you flush your clomid....and before you ordered didnt you know what your getting...usually they tell you brand names and stuff so there is no suprises....and as far as using res for a 12 week cycle...i would not do that...i think that most of this otc pct stuff is concerning short 4 week otc cycles...
 
jbryand101b said:
for hcg info anthony roberts goes into great detail on how to use it, and why it works/is the best option if available.

if you have the ability to get ahold of hcg+ nolva or clomid, this is the best combo, when used correctly for pct hands down. it will bring you back faster, and retain all if not most of your gains. but you have to inject hcg, and for some, that is a problem, for w/e reason, could be your afraid to inject, could be your wife will leave you if she finds vials and needles. but w/e reason, serm +hcg used correctly (proper dosage, and length of time) will be the very best pct.

I used to vow, "I will never use otc pct, it's crap" but after my last order of tamoxifen, the box saying "manufactured in india" the wife put a stop on all prescription serms. (that box of 60ct 20mg tamox by the way, all flushed down the toilet).
So now I find my self researching from scratch otc pct, what works, what doesn't ect, it's alot more difficult than tomixifen + T. booster. that is for sure.

I wasn't too happy with reversitol, didn't have the same feeling as tamoxifen, but it did work. but how well would it work with a 10 or 12 week cycle? who knows.

the point is, serms aren't always an option for some, and for others, otc pct may be too much to deal with, or not enough, I feel a person should research how long, and the type of anabolic used on cycle to decide the type of pct, and if you are taking an anabolic that will cause enough hpta shut down, the best should be used, but if the best isn't available, other options should be carefully researched.
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So you listen to Anthony Roberts and your wife. Things are beginning to become more clear now.:hammer:
 
mooch2321 said:
IM BACK!!!!!....sorry guys...my girl forced me to go to dinner and a movie last night....next time im gonna take a page out of b's book and tell her to STFU im arguin with people online.....its nice to be missed...you guys are swell...not swoll...swell...
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F*ckin classic. Almost fell outta my seat.
 
jbryand101b said:
for hcg info anthony roberts goes into great detail on how to use it, and why it works/is the best option if available.

if you have the ability to get ahold of hcg+ nolva or clomid, this is the best combo, when used correctly for pct hands down. it will bring you back faster, and retain all if not most of your gains. but you have to inject hcg, and for some, that is a problem, for w/e reason, could be your afraid to inject, could be your wife will leave you if she finds vials and needles. but w/e reason, serm +hcg used correctly (proper dosage, and length of time) will be the very best pct.

I used to vow, "I will never use otc pct, it's crap" but after my last order of tamoxifen, the box saying "manufactured in india" the wife put a stop on all prescription serms. (that box of 60ct 20mg tamox by the way, all flushed down the toilet).
So now I find my self researching from scratch otc pct, what works, what doesn't ect, it's alot more difficult than tomixifen + T. booster. that is for sure.

I wasn't too happy with reversitol, didn't have the same feeling as tamoxifen, but it did work. but how well would it work with a 10 or 12 week cycle? who knows.

the point is, serms aren't always an option for some, and for others, otc pct may be too much to deal with, or not enough, I feel a person should research how long, and the type of anabolic used on cycle to decide the type of pct, and if you are taking an anabolic that will cause enough hpta shut down, the best should be used, but if the best isn't available, other options should be carefully researched.
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i am not saying anything about using hcg and a serm in pct but, Anthony Roberts has a really bad rep for giving bad advice.
 
yeah...thats pretty much what B was insinuating.....but apparently he doesnt think very much of jbryand101b's wifes advice either.....lol...but in all seriousness....just take one look at tony roberts....would you listen to that douchebag????
 
mooch2321 said:
yeah...thats pretty much what B was insinuating.....but apparently he doesnt think very much of jbryand101b's wifes advice either.....lol...but in all seriousness....just take one look at tony roberts....would you listen to that douchebag????
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Why is he UGLY...
 
mooch2321 said:
no hes that loser with the ponytail thats always on infomercials spouting about some new miracle workout machine.....but yeah he kinda ugly too....not everyone can be as beautiful as i am tho so i wont hold that against him....
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Ok now I know who he is.. I still like hcg and serm though.
P.S. You are a Thing of Beauty.:laugh:
 
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