brundel
Board Sponsor
^^^this.
FORMERON FAQ
- Thread starter brundel
- Start date
^^^this.
flightposite
Board Sponsor
brundel said:
No worries brundel. I'm just excited to get the opportunity. Hope you get better soon brother I hate the flu. Extra vit -D and zinc seems to help me when I'm under the weather.
flightposite
Board Sponsor
brundel said:
^^^This information alone is a gem!
brundel
Board Sponsor
In the studies I read regarding boron I think they used tetroborate.
I know from experience that citrate works well as does whatever is in the NOW brand. Currently I have a KG of Boron citrate so I can make my own.
One of the benefits of owning a supplement company...I can make pretty much anything I want
Piston Honda
Well-known member
In the studies I read regarding boron I think they used tetroborate. I know from experience that citrate works well as does whatever is in the NOW brand. Currently I have a KG of Boron citrate so I can make my own. One of the benefits of owning a supplement company...I can make pretty much anything I want
I saw that study also, but a lot of studies also saying it's a negligible to nonexistent raise in test or decrease in shbg. Some suggesting it works in coordination with Calcium or Vit D? I have to read more. I think if that's all it took was to increase boron supplementation, more guys would do it.
Curious about your formula though; Formeron believer right here!
kisaj
Legend
I don't take a multi, but I do take Vit D. I take 3000IU a day.
kisaj
Legend
I think the emphasis is the benefit that boron can offer overall. As mentioned, I know how well it helps bone strength -insert joke here- , joint health, and I have read several studies showing the decrease in shbg and increase in free test. I have also read studies that state it is a negligible amount and then follow that with "only" a 28% increase. I'm not sure what they are looking for, but for as inexpensive as it is, it certainly is worth looking into.
I like the approach that BLR seems to take in research, not looking for necessarily the newest thing, but things that actually show promise regardless of how unsexy it may be to younger lifters.
Lhns2
Active member
Tid bit on what I know with vitamin d and boron.
First boron has been suggested that the interaction between boron and steroid hormone metabolism is mediated by the hydroxylation process that steroids need to be biologically active. The effect of boron on steroidogenesis or steroid hormone production increases total testosterone and 17-B estradiol levels. The ratio of 17-B oestradiol to testosterone also increase a significant amount. That's at 10mg daily.
Boron can suppress the activity of the microsomal enzyme 24-hydroxylase chiefly responsible for the catabolisims of this steroid. It may reflect a direct interaction with the enzyme, or perhaps Borons ability to form a covalent complex with the product of activity. An up-regulatory impact of boron on 25-hydroxyvitamin D is potentially beneficial especially in the winter times where our D levels are not adequate. A good vitamin d status as reflected by 25-Hydroxyvitamin D levels, can be protected with boron. It can inhibit a range of microsomal enzymes catalyzing vicinal hydroxylations... which also applies to 24-hydroxylase. Those enzymes can be responsible for catabolizing estradiol and 25-hydroxyvitamin D.
It decreases calcium and magnesium excretion by 50% as well. Having a boron deficiency increases the requirement for vitamin D (in some studies). But boron can help adequately metabolize vitamin D into it's active form. Which is more useful for us all. And adequate 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels in men give us a significantly higher levels of test and free test, in comparison with insufficient or deficient levels of 25-hydroxyvitamin D. It will also help lower SHBG.
Hope all this makes sense. A bit early for me to post lol.
First boron has been suggested that the interaction between boron and steroid hormone metabolism is mediated by the hydroxylation process that steroids need to be biologically active. The effect of boron on steroidogenesis or steroid hormone production increases total testosterone and 17-B estradiol levels. The ratio of 17-B oestradiol to testosterone also increase a significant amount. That's at 10mg daily.
Boron can suppress the activity of the microsomal enzyme 24-hydroxylase chiefly responsible for the catabolisims of this steroid. It may reflect a direct interaction with the enzyme, or perhaps Borons ability to form a covalent complex with the product of activity. An up-regulatory impact of boron on 25-hydroxyvitamin D is potentially beneficial especially in the winter times where our D levels are not adequate. A good vitamin d status as reflected by 25-Hydroxyvitamin D levels, can be protected with boron. It can inhibit a range of microsomal enzymes catalyzing vicinal hydroxylations... which also applies to 24-hydroxylase. Those enzymes can be responsible for catabolizing estradiol and 25-hydroxyvitamin D.
It decreases calcium and magnesium excretion by 50% as well. Having a boron deficiency increases the requirement for vitamin D (in some studies). But boron can help adequately metabolize vitamin D into it's active form. Which is more useful for us all. And adequate 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels in men give us a significantly higher levels of test and free test, in comparison with insufficient or deficient levels of 25-hydroxyvitamin D. It will also help lower SHBG.
Hope all this makes sense. A bit early for me to post lol.
Piston Honda
Well-known member
Mixing powders and oils?
koi1214
Well-known member
Not possible?
Piston Honda
Well-known member
I just don't see how, LCLT can clump up in bulk and GMS can take on some water sometimes. Would be a very interesting (and large) pill dosage.
koi1214
Well-known member
Just curious could ArA be solidified? Look at XF's Vengeance? It is a powdered preworkout.
uubiduu
Well-known member
I saw a boron study which showed a large increase in free test but estro went down considerably in that study.you say it rises.yes there seems to be another boron study where estro went up but its hard for me to understand that estro gives us problems especially when considering the first mentioned study.
Lhns2
Active member
If test goes up, aromitase will also happen. Studies conclude it also helps post menopausal women with estrogen and testosterone.
JD261985
Banned
Wow I just concluded that I only get 600 iu in a day...fukkkk. I did actually find a boron sodium tetra supp with 10 mg per serving so it's the same type of boron and dose used in that one study. Definitely foots increase my D though
Fizzeek
New member
I've had several bottles now; and have to say I'm not really impressed with the compounding sometimes. It has visible solids. BUT, there's simple and quite effective solution to this that I don't mind sharing.
I draw up all of my doses in an oral syringe to 2ml, and top it off with @.75ml of DMSO. Then draw the plunger up for some air...shake for a minute then apply. NO SOLIDS, and dries faster.
Happy...rubbing or whatever. Lol.
I draw up all of my doses in an oral syringe to 2ml, and top it off with @.75ml of DMSO. Then draw the plunger up for some air...shake for a minute then apply. NO SOLIDS, and dries faster.
Happy...rubbing or whatever. Lol.
brundel
Board Sponsor
We are not using Boron to increase Total T. Its used to increase Free t. Mine went up to 608. Which is incredibly high.
brundel
Board Sponsor
I do about 1000 iu D. I used to do more but I read super high doses can cause arrhythmias.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Its all about making something that I know for sure will actually work.
Trust me on this...I can bring out all kinds of new compounds...Ive spent years digging and searching for ingredients. At the end of the day its about if I can prove itll work on you.
brundel
Board Sponsor
I know what lclt is but the others I dont know the abbreviations. Probably if they are oily it wont work as a powder
But...some have solid forms.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Perhaps in the study it did not. My experience is drawn from both research studies as well as our own internal testing.
In me my estro was 90 and I had gyno present using Boron.
SHBG binds many things. If it releases test and DHT there is a good chance its also letting estro go. SO...SHBG goes down, everything bound to it goes up.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Formestane isnt soluble in anything skin friendly. So its a partial solution/suspension.
50% guiaicol/50% ethyl oleate wouldnt hold it for more than an hour in solution.
100% Benzyl alcohol wont either.
Ive tried just about everything. Combos....dozens of carriers.
The current version is as good as it gets.
NO transdermal form is without particles. Also sometimes they can form in the bottle and grow rather large. Either way there is still plenty in solution to get through the skin.
I had a bottle of CEL form once with 2 inch crystals in it.
kisaj
Legend
I am not saying Fizzeek is complaining abut the product, but people just need to realize how good it is by trying competitors. With a transdermal, other than the obvious need for it to work, smell and drying speed are the most important imo. If something takes a long time to absorb or smells weird in anyway, it stops you from wanting to use it. I would use Formeron as a soap if I could. LOL
koi1214
Well-known member
I know what lclt is but the others I dont know the abbreviations. Probably if they are oily it wont work as a powder
But...some have solid forms.
How you feeling?
ArA is arachidonic acid
GMS is glycerol monostaerate
brundel
Board Sponsor
We tinkered for a long time with the scent.
I remember androgel has a specific scent to it. I can smell the guys who are on it from a mile away.
Knowing this might be an issue we tried to make it as pleasant and.....clean as possible.
The goal was to replicate and improve on the androgel delivery system and give it a better scent. Im 100% sure we did these things
brundel
Board Sponsor
THere is a reason I dont like ARA but I cant recall what it was. I think it had to do with inflammatory issues and immune issues but again I forget.
GMS Im a fan of and if we do a pre workout this is on the list of potentials to be included.
THere is a pre workout drink that used to be made by..ALRI I think. I believe its discontinued..this was many years ago.
Glycerol was one of the ingredients and you could see it in the mix. It had a...taste to it. It really did help with volumizing but the primary setback is it needs to be taken with ALOT of water. More than Im comfortable having in my stomach before starting a workout.
Currently I compound my own pre workout supp and I use only 10mg sucralose to sweeten it so I can slam it down in like 4oz water.
This leaves some room so Im not all bloated and watery till the end of the workout. I drink an intraworkout drink of 1/3 gal during training.
This consists of 1/3 water, 75g waxy maize, 25g BCAA, 7g Glutamine AAKG. It tastes amazing.
I have a list of stuff I want to put in a mix and test drive. Perhaps in the next couple months Ill make up some test batches and let you guys try em.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Oh...and terrible.
I have literally 600 units back ordered and IM in bed. I went to work for about an hour today to partially fill NPS order as they are having a huge sale and they cant be out of stock. But Im def still sick....and now everyone around me has stomach flu. If I get that on top of this IM pretty much ****ed.
horizons
Well-known member
ArA is definitely the hottest supplement out right now. So many good reviews it's ridiculous.
And the GMS & LCLT stack just makes it even better apparently.
If there was a all in one pre workout with the right dosing of GMS & LCLT and maybe even a good dosage of Agmatine & L-cutrulline id be buying that regardless of wether or not I am taking ArA
2g of LCLT
6g of micronised GMS
5g of straight L-citruline
1g of Agmatine
The focus & energy stuff could be added, caffeine, some PEA and stuff like that.
It would be FULL of win! For pumps and endurance
koi1214
Well-known member
ArA is definitely the hottest supplement out right now. So many good reviews it's ridiculous.
And the GMS & LCLT stack just makes it even better apparently.
If there was a all in one pre workout with the right dosing of GMS & LCLT and maybe even a good dosage of Agmatine & L-cutrulline id be buying that regardless of wether or not I am taking ArA
2g of LCLT
6g of micronised GMS
5g of straight L-citruline
1g of Agmatine
The focus & energy stuff could be added, caffeine, some PEA and stuff like that.
It would be FULL of win! For pumps and endurance
That would be the perfect preworkout. It would have all the right ingredients all at proven amounts. The key would be using micronized GMS & straight L-citruline. I would leave the stims out for those who lift at night or make a stim & stim free version.
koi1214
Well-known member
The flu sux man.
kisaj
Legend
There is so much crap going around right now. My daughters had RSV and then a stomach bug over the holidays.
Brundel- I made a thread regarding DLPA and was wondering if you had any experience with it? It is proving to be simply amazing for me and I feel like if more people knew about it, they'd likely feel the same way. Energy, increased dopamine, mood elevation, libido, better sleep, pain relief- it hits all marks.
Brundel- I made a thread regarding DLPA and was wondering if you had any experience with it? It is proving to be simply amazing for me and I feel like if more people knew about it, they'd likely feel the same way. Energy, increased dopamine, mood elevation, libido, better sleep, pain relief- it hits all marks.
koi1214
Well-known member
DLPA?
kisaj
Legend
See? LOL.
D, L- Phenlalanine. The L part is used for increasing dopamine, libido, and energy. The D part is man made and activates endorphins so it is used as a powerful pain reducer. You can buy DPA or LPA without the combination, but all the research I have done indicates that the combo is the way to go for most people since just taking L-Phenylanine can make people jittery and very hyper. The 50/50 ratio seems to balance it out.
All I know is that I took 1g yesterday around noon and was flying through my day until about 8pm, and then started to unwind. I crashed at about 11pm and had the normal crazy dopamine type dreams. The difference was that I bounced out of bed with energy and in a great mood. I decided to skip my morning coffee and took another 1g about an hour ago. I am sitting here cruising through emails and just in an amazing mood. I have energy just buzzing through my muscles and feel like either going for a run or calling people to talk. LOL
D, L- Phenlalanine. The L part is used for increasing dopamine, libido, and energy. The D part is man made and activates endorphins so it is used as a powerful pain reducer. You can buy DPA or LPA without the combination, but all the research I have done indicates that the combo is the way to go for most people since just taking L-Phenylanine can make people jittery and very hyper. The 50/50 ratio seems to balance it out.
All I know is that I took 1g yesterday around noon and was flying through my day until about 8pm, and then started to unwind. I crashed at about 11pm and had the normal crazy dopamine type dreams. The difference was that I bounced out of bed with energy and in a great mood. I decided to skip my morning coffee and took another 1g about an hour ago. I am sitting here cruising through emails and just in an amazing mood. I have energy just buzzing through my muscles and feel like either going for a run or calling people to talk. LOL
brundel
Board Sponsor
I havnt really researched it. Sounds like its similar to Ldopa?
Ill check it out for sure.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Never heard of that. They are replacing it because .....like I was saying it doesnt work at all. Pure 100% placebo.
Tons of people were conned into thinking it worked because there are 1000000000 reps saying its great.
Just goes to show...ALWAYS do your own research before you eat anything from anyone.
brundel
Board Sponsor
With regards to PES new wonder supp. Here is a quote from a study:
However, DHAA compound 21 was also found to inhibit the growth of HUVEC (human umbilical vein epithelial) cells with an IC50 of 69 nm, indicating a strong cytotoxicity by this substance, which would most likely prohibit its further preclinical development as an AI. These compounds were further tested using an in vitro uterine contraction assay and found to be inactive.
Looks like its too toxic to be used as a medication less yet a supplement.
Id steer clear.
However, DHAA compound 21 was also found to inhibit the growth of HUVEC (human umbilical vein epithelial) cells with an IC50 of 69 nm, indicating a strong cytotoxicity by this substance, which would most likely prohibit its further preclinical development as an AI. These compounds were further tested using an in vitro uterine contraction assay and found to be inactive.
Looks like its too toxic to be used as a medication less yet a supplement.
Id steer clear.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Tons of plants have at least mild AI activity in vitro. The issue is most also are worthless when eaten...
Mangostin from the mangosteen plant. Looks amazing on paper. We obtained a strong% extract standardized for gamma mangostin and even at 700mg twice a day it only inhibited 30%. Aromasin is like 96%. So 30% is bad.
pomegranate
Mullberry
licorice
even chamomile
have Mild AI activity. What we need....is STRONG affinity for the aromatase enzyme.
Trust me Im looking for it. Clearly others are as well and missing the mark. We spent a ton on testing mangostin but we never sold it to you guys because it didnt make the cut. DHAA also doesnt make the cut.
brundel
Board Sponsor
From wiki
Natural
Resveratrol[4]
Nicotine[5]
Myosmine[6]
Zinc[7]
Catechin[8][9] THink green Tea extract Probably where I would go for a natty if I had to. Plus some Resveratrol. In fact I currently take both. But still require further AI suppression.
Chalcones[10]
Apigenin[11]
Eriodictyol[11]
Isoliquiritigenin[11]
Mangostin[11]
Natural
Resveratrol[4]
Nicotine[5]
Myosmine[6]
Zinc[7]
Catechin[8][9] THink green Tea extract
Probably where I would go for a natty if I had to. Plus some Resveratrol. In fact I currently take both. But still require further AI suppression.Chalcones[10]
Apigenin[11]
Eriodictyol[11]
Isoliquiritigenin[11]
Mangostin[11]