FORMERON FAQ

[kisaj]

You are asking questions that just can't be answered in a definitive manner. Hormones fluctuate and are different for everyone, so there is no way Brundel can come in here and tell you how long your estrogen is going to stay low, when it may rise, what will happen with your test level, etc.. Formeron is formestane with a great carrier, so information is readily available.

 

[neothecat]

I started taking Viron yesterday. Question, has there been any rebound effect once its stopped? Like an increase in SHBG or free T dropping drastically?

 

[noneck 697]

Im new to the forum and just started taking follidrone. Im on my third day taking one a day before workouts. I can definitely notice a strength boost on my squats.

I was interested in getting viron next but also was looking into formeron. Ive never taken a prohormone before and ive noticed that it is a mild prohormone which has me kind of iffy being that ive never taken any before and have no Knowledge of them. So my question is should I just go with viron since its all natural?

 

[koi1214]

Ill work on putting a 12 week plan together for you guys.
If you follow it....it will teach you a whole new way to train and youll see previous walls crumble.

How soon you think?

 

[Snapmoney]

What would you say about the following stack? Follidrone+(XI-KT+Formeron), thinking Form protects against extra test from XI. Or is XI-KT mild enough it doesnt need the Form?

 

[brundel]

I started taking Viron yesterday. Question, has there been any rebound effect once its stopped? Like an increase in SHBG or free T dropping drastically?

SHBG may spike briefly but Ive run it a bunch of times and never really noticed anything negative.

 

[brundel]

How soon you think?

Im trying to get to it. Hopefully soon.

 

[brundel]

What would you say about the following stack? Follidrone+(XI-KT+Formeron), thinking Form protects against extra test from XI. Or is XI-KT mild enough it doesnt need the Form?

I dont see any reason to not take them together.

 

[neothecat]

SHBG may spike briefly but Ive run it a bunch of times and never really noticed anything negative.

Brundel,

Thanks for always replying with solid info!

I've seen conflicting studies on Boron, both say it increases free t, but one says it increased estrogen and the other says it decreased estrogen. Have you run tests running boron alone to see what it actually does to serum estrogen levels?

 

[NattyForLife]

Brundel, Thanks for always replying with solid info! I've seen conflicting studies on Boron, both say it increases free t, but one says it increased estrogen and the other says it decreased estrogen. Have you run tests running boron alone to see what it actually does to serum estrogen levels?

When T increases, estrogen is also going to increase.

 

[neothecat]

When T increases, estrogen is also going to increase.

I was under the impression we are talking about free T levels, not serum testosterone levels, when more testosterone is produced more of it gets aromatized into estrogen, but I thought boron just lowers SHBG, so more of existing serum testosterone is free. Correct me if I'm wrong...

 

[NattyForLife]

I was under the impression we are talking about free T levels, not serum testosterone levels, when more testosterone is produced more of it gets aromatized into estrogen, but I thought boron just lowers SHBG, so more of existing serum testosterone is free. Correct me if I'm wrong...

Im not sure!

 

[brundel]

Viron is not just Boron its also Eurycoma longifolia/ tongkat.
Tongkat elevates test levels.

So as test levels rise estrogen will also rise.
Estrogen can also be released when SHBG is lowered.

There is a study that indicates boron decreases estrogen levels.
There are also studies indicating tongkat works like an AI and also like a SERM but the amount of activity in this regard I do not know.

Me personally, I would use Formeron with the Viron. Its is not an absolute necessity, however, and those who do not experience any negative estro related sides do not need to worry about it.

 

[koi1214]

Im trying to get to it. Hopefully soon.

Bump?

 

[whyteboi]

Realize this was asked, but wondering since my dose is pretty high, as well as using other supps. Currently using XI-KT. Should I use formeron during XI-KT or during PCT (orboth)? I'm dosing XI-KT pretty high, and am not sure if this will cause too much suppresion/shut-down.

I'm trying to shred as much as possible by August 16th (also using TTA/DCP/Lipomorph/Follidrone/Alphamine/Viron(should i do 5/2 or just take 1 every day))

 

[noxiousb4c]

Well, I registered to make the comment in this thread.

I know it's too early to say for sure it's cured my problems but formeron is amazing so far. I'm 31 and I know I've had hormonal problems for a few years. We all know the symptoms....lethargy, lack of libido, loss of that drive and focus we all love...etc. Let's just say I could go months without looking at porn and it wouldn't bother me a bit. I make sure to please my girlfriend but it's honestly pretty hard sometimes.

About a month ago I started taking creatine again, I'm a 350/450/550 bench/squat/deadlifter @ 180ish btw, and I noticed some nipple sensitivity in my left nipple. What the heck??! So I'm guessing my test went up a little and my body turned it into estrogen. So I re-evaluate my symptoms and come to the conclusion that maybe my test is ok considering my strength and my estrogen is too high. So I read up on all my options and decide formeron sounds promising and it has raving reviews so I pull the trigger.

6 days of 2 pumps a day and I'm a changed man. Before I started using it I weighed 184 or so. Today I'm 179. Nipple sensitive is almost gone. Libido is not yet through the roof or anything but lets just say I'm getting randoms and I don't get randoms usually. My girlfriend has already noticed my increased bedroom enthusiasm.

Can't say anything about strength gains yet because I'm in the middle of a smolov squat cycle but I can promise you I'm shedding water. I guess I need to up the calories

 

[brundel]

Looks like an epic cycle!
You can run the XI-KT and the Formeron both at high doses and at the same time. Just spread it out over as much skin as possible.
Like Upper chest, neck, delts for One and inner thighs for the other.

I would run the Formeron for the whole cycle at 2-4 pumps and at 1-2 pumps for the PCT if its needed for the XI-KT.

 

[koi1214]

Ill work on putting a 12 week plan together for you guys.
If you follow it....it will teach you a whole new way to train and youll see previous walls crumble.

How much longer you think?

 

[brundel]

How much longer you think?

I started outlining it a few days ago.
Its alot of ..technical stuff.

Its gonna take alot to introduce you guys to new training principals.

Like rest pauses
And different tempos for concentric and eccentric portions of lifts.

Mine is a mix between DC training, Blood and guts, and mentzer style stuff.

Its painful lol

 

[EatMoar]

I started outlining it a few days ago.
Its alot of ..technical stuff.

Its gonna take alot to introduce you guys to new training principals.

Like rest pauses
And different tempos for concentric and eccentric portions of lifts.

Mine is a mix between DC training, Blood and guts, and mentzer style stuff.

Its painful lol

Sounds exactly how I train, love those principles. DC opened my eyes.

 

[NattyForLife]

Sounds exactly how I train, love those principles. DC opened my eyes.

DC is pretty much like total rep training correct?

 

[brundel]

DC is short for DOGGCRAPP. DOggcrapp is the forum handle of Dante Trudel who invented DC training and also owns true nutrition.
The program is very strict.
Its like a religion.
There are several principals that you dont see often and the whole style of training is pretty unique.
There are many little nuances and variations that you MUST adhere to but if you follow exactly youll see gains like never before.
This is taking into account diet is on point
Supps are on point
rest is perfect etc.

You do 12 week DC programs with deload weeks after.

My program has developed after years of DC training. Mine is very different but alot of the principals remain.

In fact its likely a good idea if you begin a 12 week DC program.
Mine is higher volume so...you can do 12 weeks on 2 weeks deload then go into my program.

Read this entire article. Start to finish.
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/how_to_build_50_pounds_of_muscle_in_12_months

 

[EatMoar]

DC is short for DOGGCRAPP. DOggcrapp is the forum handle of Dante Trudel who invented DC training and also owns true nutrition.
The program is very strict.
Its like a religion.
There are several principals that you dont see often and the whole style of training is pretty unique.
There are many little nuances and variations that you MUST adhere to but if you follow exactly youll see gains like never before.
This is taking into account diet is on point
Supps are on point
rest is perfect etc.

You do 12 week DC programs with deload weeks after.

My program has developed after years of DC training. Mine is very different but alot of the principals remain.

In fact its likely a good idea if you begin a 12 week DC program.
Mine is higher volume so...you can do 12 weeks on 2 weeks deload then go into my program.

Read this entire article. Start to finish.
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/how_to_build_50_pounds_of_muscle_in_12_months

That article is good, go over to intense muscle natty4lyfffeeee and read EVERYTHING in the dogpound section of the forums. Awesome stuff!

 

[EatMoar]

Started applying to the tops of my feet and wow, I get an even larger headrush as compared to applying to just my upper body. New favorite spot

 

[Savage99]

Started applying to the tops of my feet and wow, I get an even larger headrush as compared to applying to just my upper body. New favorite spot

At least your feet will smell good now!

 

[brundel]

That article is good, go over to intense muscle @natty4lyfffeeee and read EVERYTHING in the dogpound section of the forums. Awesome stuff!

I was a strict DC trainer for a long time.
I put on like 50lbs training DC.
Eventually I got bored and started to deviate....now my program is a total other beast.
Im writing it down for a few other guys.

DC, if you adhere to it strictly has the potential to put on basically as much mass as you want.

 

[EatMoar]

I was a strict DC trainer for a long time.
I put on like 50lbs training DC.
Eventually I got bored and started to deviate....now my program is a total other beast.
Im writing it down for a few other guys.

DC, if you adhere to it strictly has the potential to put on basically as much mass as you want.

Interesting. I know DW is doing DC now, how did you split it? 3 days a week only? I'm in more of a PowerBuilder split right now, I'm addicting to the 1-5 rep range

 

[brundel]

I would do the normal prescribed method. 3 days one week and 4 the next.
Eventually i started to mold he program to my needs and recovery potential.
Part of why you train less is because your hitting every bodypart so frequently.

My current program i do 2 on 1 off. But i dont do the dc split anymore either except for 12 weeks per year.

I have two other versions i employ.
One is the version im writing down to post here.

I do rest pauses
Drop sets
Fast concentric amd 4 sec eccentric.

15-20 rep range for most but up to 30.
But its rest paused so 15 reps is really 8+4+3 so your really doing 8 reps to fail tops.

A few things.
I use a log book. If you dont have a log book your really missing out on one of the best tools at your disposal.

Every week and every exercise your goal is to increase 1 rep. When you can get 20 (or whatever you deem your top end) you then add weight.

Over 12 weeks if you adhere to my program.
If you rest enough.
Eat properly (this is a solid 80%).
And you train like a warrior...

You will become a whole different person.
Strength becomes stupid and the muscle just starts to grow so fast its hard to believe....

At my top end i had gained over 100lbs of lean muscle. My overhead press max was 365.
Big n strong.

I honestly attribute alot of my progress to dc and my modified version.

Its the holy grail.


I just trained a friend of mine.
3 months he put on 20lbs. Its been six months since i stopped working with him and hes still got the extra lean 20lbs.

It works

 

[Joshlm69]

I would do the normal prescribed method. 3 days one week and 4 the next. Eventually i started to mold he program to my needs and recovery potential. Part of why you train less is because your hitting every bodypart so frequently. My current program i do 2 on 1 off. But i dont do the dc split anymore either except for 12 weeks per year. I have two other versions i employ. One is the version im writing down to post here. I do rest pauses Drop sets Fast concentric amd 4 sec eccentric. 15-20 rep range for most but up to 30. But its rest paused so 15 reps is really 8+4+3 so your really doing 8 reps to fail tops. A few things. I use a log book. If you dont have a log book your really missing out on one of the best tools at your disposal. Every week and every exercise your goal is to increase 1 rep. When you can get 20 (or whatever you deem your top end) you then add weight. Over 12 weeks if you adhere to my program. If you rest enough. Eat properly (this is a solid 80%). And you train like a warrior... You will become a whole different person. Strength becomes stupid and the muscle just starts to grow so fast its hard to believe.... At my top end i had gained over 100lbs of lean muscle. My overhead press max was 365. Big n strong. I honestly attribute alot of my progress to dc and my modified version. Its the holy grail. I just trained a friend of mine. 3 months he put on 20lbs. Its been six months since i stopped working with him and hes still got the extra lean 20lbs. It works

Can't wait for the holy grail to be written so I can log it

 

[EatMoar]

Lol so many of my buddies laughed when i first started logging everything from mood , diet and weights, **** they're all still dead lifting 315 and I'm almost in the 500 range. Recently, I've been trying to beat my log book for a selection of lifts. For example on incline bench, after flat BB, I noticed I lifted the same reps this week as last week but I added 10lbs to the bar.

Love to see that stuff.

 

[kisaj]

I'll be honest that I have been doing this for so long I started slipping on the logs a long time ago and just kept it in my head. That worked fine for a long time, but now that I am working between 5-6 routines and trying to maximize my gains, endurance, whatever for the particular activity I am training for, it has become an absolute necessity. I'd go so far as to say it could have hindered progress up to 50% if I wasn't keeping track.

 

[alfeer]

Hi all, this sounds amazing... I'm not doing any gear or PH's. I just thought this would be a good addition to cut for the summer. I read a lot but some things are not very clear (I'm not a pharmacist !!!). I have some Q's for you guys:
- So if this is PH, how come there is no need for a PCT after its use?
- What happens when you go off, or finish using? does the estro shoot back up? would you need a test booster to counter the 4- hydroxytestosterone that was released in your blood stream?
- This wouldn't be used as a topical fat burner, right?

Again, if these questions sound a bit beginner sorry for that but I'm kinda new to all of this...

Thanx

 

[gianlol]

I would do the normal prescribed method. 3 days one week and 4 the next.
Eventually i started to mold he program to my needs and recovery potential.
Part of why you train less is because your hitting every bodypart so frequently.

My current program i do 2 on 1 off. But i dont do the dc split anymore either except for 12 weeks per year.

I have two other versions i employ.
One is the version im writing down to post here.

I do rest pauses
Drop sets
Fast concentric amd 4 sec eccentric.

15-20 rep range for most but up to 30.
But its rest paused so 15 reps is really 8+4+3 so your really doing 8 reps to fail tops.

A few things.
I use a log book. If you dont have a log book your really missing out on one of the best tools at your disposal.

Every week and every exercise your goal is to increase 1 rep. When you can get 20 (or whatever you deem your top end) you then add weight.

Over 12 weeks if you adhere to my program.
If you rest enough.
Eat properly (this is a solid 80%).
And you train like a warrior...

You will become a whole different person.
Strength becomes stupid and the muscle just starts to grow so fast its hard to believe....

At my top end i had gained over 100lbs of lean muscle. My overhead press max was 365.
Big n strong.

I honestly attribute alot of my progress to dc and my modified version.

Its the holy grail.


I just trained a friend of mine.
3 months he put on 20lbs. Its been six months since i stopped working with him and hes still got the extra lean 20lbs.

It works

Hi Brundel, I want to try the DC training, but I don't like the pattern ABA - BAB

do you think is possible a pattern like ABAB - ABAB (4 day /week).

During a PH cycle (epi) maybe a good idea that extra frequency?

 

[supermanjow]

Hi Brundel, I want to try the DC training, but I don't like the pattern ABA - BAB

do you think is possible a pattern like ABAB - ABAB (4 day /week).

During a PH cycle (epi) maybe a good idea that extra frequency?

Even on cycle you will burn out and not make gains. Get it out of your head that doing more equals better when it comes to DC training. You hammer the muscle each workout and do so three times in two weeks. That's 78 growth stimuli shots a year compared to the typical 52. I guarantee that if you do what you're proposing you will not be able to go into each workout everytime and beat the log book. It just won't happen. You'll plateau very quickly, have to drop exercises more frequently, and not make the gains you u could have if you followed the training scheme the way Dante originally laid out out. Do it as prescribed though and you'll enjoy a dramatic change to your physique and your strength.

 

[kisaj]

I've run DC several times in the past and am on a rest pause routine now. I can attest to the fact that you don't need to be looking for more work to do. You need to be figuring out how you are going to allow your body to rest and recoop because it is taxing, even if it doesn't look like it on paper as other high volume type routines may.

 

[brundel]

Hi Brundel, I want to try the DC training, but I don't like the pattern ABA - BAB

do you think is possible a pattern like ABAB - ABAB (4 day /week).

During a PH cycle (epi) maybe a good idea that extra frequency?

If anything its too much training. Youll fall apart. Trust me. If you are doing it right and giving it 100% youll start feeling like you need more rest.
I think if you want to do DC you need to adhere to the program.
Or just do something else.

Ultimately you can do whatever you like but the program is written the way it is for a reason. Every single thing is setup the way it is for a reason and it works. If you start changing things your on your own.

My suggestion is not overthink things. If you dont like it. dont do it. Simple as that.
If you want to do it, I recommend adhering 100% to the program.

You dont need extra frequency. ITs already alot more than normal.

 

[BamBam0319]

So maybe I have rhino skin or something but I 'm on I think my 3rd bottle of formeron consecutively - ran it during my cycle and thru my PCT - and my left nipple has been sensitive since about halfway through my cycle. I've been running 4 pumps a day since then, nothing has changed. What's up?

 

[dallasboy22]

brundel, have you written up your program yet?

 

[brundel]

So maybe I have rhino skin or something but I 'm on I think my 3rd bottle of formeron consecutively - ran it during my cycle and thru my PCT - and my left nipple has been sensitive since about halfway through my cycle. I've been running 4 pumps a day since then, nothing has changed. What's up?

What else are you taking currently?
What did you take on cycle? Anything that elevates prolactin?

Its possible you do have rhino skin but unlikely.
Some people just dont absorb transdermals well but we should rule other things out first. Especially it possibly being prolactin induced.

 

[brundel]

@brundel, have you written up your program yet?

No sir I just dont have time currently.
For now I would start a solid DC program. Get yourself used to training like this.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/how_to_build_50_pounds_of_muscle_in_12_months

 

[jacecubby]

Would creatine be a waste of money while taking formeron, since it makes you loose water ?

 

[ijohan]

Would creatine be a waste of money while taking formeron, since it makes you loose water ?

I don't think so, creatine helps retain water inside muscle, while I hope formeron helps to loose subcutaneous water.

 

[brundel]

There is no need for concern.

 

[Snapmoney]

So I have been running Follidrone, with XI-KT for about three weeks now (thanks for your response on this earlier), things are going very very well, now that i'm comfortable with those two being effective; what are your thoughts about adding Formeron for even better recomp possibilities? Any concerns with incompatibility or redundancy?

 

[brundel]

So I have been running Follidrone, with XI-KT for about three weeks now (thanks for your response on this earlier), things are going very very well, now that i'm comfortable with those two being effective; what are your thoughts about adding Formeron for even better recomp possibilities? Any concerns with incompatibility or redundancy?

I think its a fantastic idea.
Formeron will increase test levels so youll get added strength and increased protein synthesis through a diffferent mechanism than with Follidrone.
Youll also get lowered estro so youll retail less water and look drier and harder.
ITll also give you some PH conversion to hydroxytest which is a great compound for strength and lean muscle gains.

 

[BamBam0319]

Hey brundel just wanted to let you know that I received Prolactrone yesterday and already my left nipple ( the one with the issues) is less puffy and painful to the touch. I think prolactin was the problem! Either way I'm finishing out the bottle of Formeron along with it for the sake of gains

 

[brundel]

Awesome bro!
Well at least now you know what the issue was
And at least now its going away!

Formeron is great even when you dont have gyno so you cant lose running it alongside the pro.

Should be a decent stack.

 

[whyteboi]

Does formeron act as a test base? I saw some lab results you posted where test levels were elevated above normal but I'm not sure if it's actually test, or what these tests "consider" as test

 

[EatMoar]

Does formeron act as a test base? I saw some lab results you posted where test levels were elevated above normal but I'm not sure if it's actually test, or what these tests "consider" as test

No, its not an effective test base. Use TR3ST or actual injectables for a test base. You need a high amount of pumps to get that conversion, and if you're running it solo that means you will crush your estro and not have a fun time.

 

[Snapmoney]

One last question, maybe lol, im using both XIKT and the Formeron, both topicals, should I use different application sites, and or times for those two?