First Injectable: TestE kicked with Superdrol

thanks mooch

very approximate strength increases for the overall cycle, take with a grain of salt

incline: 225*6 -> 225*10
squat: 345*6 -> 385*4
bb rows: 245*6 -> 265*6
bb curls: 155*4 -> 165*4

those are the best numbers i've been able to hit but the sets are under certain conditions, sometimes i'm more "fresh," overall the amount of strength gain sounds appropriate for the amount of LBM gained (which i calculated at 6.5 lbs). It's not bad, I just wanted more, and the 8.5 lb of fat gain really marginalizes the gains (coupled with the fact that I still have to try to keep this **** in PCT).
 
So I said I would do PCT but instead I kept pinning myself, hoping that eventually the prop would do something. I considered the possibility that maybe this could be enanthate that's dosed at 100mg/mL.

Well it's now day 3 of week 5 and there's no changes. I continue to be horny, and in the past few days a couple more pimples have popped up. My weight continues to be stagnant, my strength continues to be stagnant, and i still do not notice any changes in my lifting at the gym. The pumps that once felt so good now feel pretty normal. At this point it's hard to tell i'm on anything despite being on day 38 of test prop at 100mg ed.

I refuse to believe that I needed to eat more food, when i was eating food in such an excess that I gained more fat than muscle. I likewise refuse to believe that, after just over 3 years of weightlifting, I have reached my genetic limit and 700mg ew of testosterone won't let me budge. I refuse to believe that the testosterone I got from two different sources were both bunk (especially when this **** is making me so goddamn horny). I refuse to believe that everybody responds to all steroids, because most oral steroids do not elicit effects anywhere near their normal magnitude for me. And as testosterone is a steroid, I do not believe it elicits effects properly for me either.

I don't know how some people say they get an ON feeling and mental effects like being aggressive or driven, and I don't know how people gain more than 10 pounds off of test. I don't know understand the bloat because it just hasn't happened, i don't understand the test flu because that never happened, i don't understand "prop pain" cuz that **** is weak as hell. I don't understand how we tell everybody to use 100mg eod when twice that is, IMO weak as hell.

I have thought to reason this out and my experience with Epi is a perfect parallel and I haven't heard many comments on it, other than being told that it's not going to cause weight gain like SD. Well no ****, but no gains AT ALL in 4 weeks?

Anyway... I'm giving up on test. I don't see how it should be the base of EVERY cycle because the libido improvement is the only improvement I've noticed, and to be honest it's as much of a problem as a benefit. In terms of muscle and strength building, test doesn't have **** on oral steroids. It seems the difference is test gains are supposed to be more "keepable" but if there's no gains to keep... you see my logic. Orals have caused increases that I highly doubt any testosterone dose could achieve.

I would be pinning this **** at 2g a week if my body could handle that many injections but i don't see how it could be worth it. I'm out. I want to try tren because I have hope that high doses of trenbolone will WORK, but my verdict for this log is that Testosterone is like most other orals i've tried, it just doesn't work as well on me as it seems to on everybody else.

I had to let it out, cuz i'm tired of being told that test works for everyone, that my stuff is bunk, that I expected too much or that i don't know how to eat. I think this is a failure of the compound. I want people that read this log to know that there are people who don't make significant gains on testosterone. I want them to know that I genuinely tried as hard as I could to make gains and that i extended the duration repeatedly hoping for them.

If there's ever anyone like me that doesn't respond properly to steroids, I want to talk to you in private messages. The more I think about the situation, the more confused and frustrated I become. It pretty much plagues me constantly, promising little hope for advancing my bodybuilding stats. So i'd love to talk it out.
 
The difference between you and MOST people is you were willing to at least listen to input, and try different avenues to possibly maximize your gains.

You gave it all you could.. You didn't throw your hands up and come to an instant decision that you don't respond, you saw it through.

You see allot of people saying "i don't respond to xx" and they AREN'T eating enough, or are in fact doing some other bonehead thing, and wont accept trying something different.

It is unfortunate that this is the end result, but what can you do but either try different compounds, or hang up your hat and continue on a natural path, or one of things you know work.
 
IF i were you and I really wanted to know if I was a responder or non responder to test is if you have access get pharma grade suspension. Yes it hurts like a bitch and you need to pin ATLEAST once a day but no waiting to see if it's going to help you and if it works then you know somethine was wrong with the dosing or ester ect of your test.
 
I hate that you aren't responding the way you wanted and should be. I know you have put your all into the cycle and deserve more. Time for PCT, recovery time and then come back on your Tren cycle and rock the house.
 
Sorry your cycle wasn't quite as good as you'd hoped man.

Still looking massive though, unlike my scrawny self who hasn't been able to workout for two months. :(

-Diffusion.
 
I'm about 1 week post cycle now and I don't notice anything different

I've stopped HCG and i'm stacking nolva and clomid. Something like this:
clomid 100 (first 3 days), then 50 for the next 25 days
nolva 20/20/20/20

might stop after the 3rd week if i see no reason to continue which is often the case
 
I'm in the same boat, Test Cyp kicked with SD. The first 4 weeks were the most, if any gains in both weight and strength I've seen the entire time. I'm running it at 500mg/week, do you think that is enough? Maybe up it to 750mg/week?

Also, I am thinking of running MMV2 in the last 2 weeks, or last week and week before PCT, to get cut for summer. What do you think? Maybe I'll actually see some gains.

Can you give me a run down of what you did with HCG too? There seems to be so many different approaches.
 
500iu's twice a week for the time when on test solo

MMV2, i don't know man, i looked into it and decided it probably won't work on me so I haven't bothered. I have no idea how it will work for you.

500mg a week is "enough" for most people. If you're making gains then it's enough. If you're not making gains, something is wrong.


I don't see how you are in my boat. SD will give you good gains at first. My issue is that I went off Superdrol without a PCT and a month later started shooting 100mg of test prop everyday and for over a month I tried to bulk and couldn't gain a pound.
 
On your boat I meant that gains stopped with stopping SD. But of course mine is not exactly the same as yours in all particulars.

I think I am going to pin 3/week when my Test E comes, which will be almost twice the test (500 -> 900).

But how did you run your HCG? This will be my first time running it, as it is my first injectable cycle as well. But since I get shut down hard, at least on designers, it is something I definitely need to add in if I want to keep anything.
 
once again, 500iu's twice a week

Update
I'm on the 4th week of PCT. Weight is around 225 pounds, i did what most people shouldn't do and started a cut during my PCT. The gains on cycle were so minimal that there was really no need to protect them by keeping my calorie intake so high. I've leaned out nicely and I look almost as good as I did pre-cycle (which is much better than post cycle, as only fat gains are really evident).

My testosterone dipped noticably low during the 2nd week and into the 3rd week of pct and then it rebounded back very hard and I got an acne breakout. My natural test feels very high now, I'm still not nearly as horny as I was on cycle but my muscles have a kind of anabolic feeling and they feel about the same as they did on cycle... I trained arms today and my strength hasn't diminished much from the peak of the cycle on my arm lifts.

I gotta say that the main difference between being on my 4th week of PCT and being on 700mg of test prop a week is that the test made me horny. The workouts are the same. I have discussed this with a couple people who all seem to say it's a receptor issue, and it's possible that my natural test is just really high and that's why I've made natural gains so easily and gotten so little out of steroids.

At any rate, i know my progress will be slow now but I'll keep at it and try to get my bodyfat down to 8-9% but keep my weight at 220+ if I can. I've pretty much given up on injectables... if test doesn't work then why should anything else...

My next cycle is tentatively planned as 19-nor high dosed for 6 weeks over summer to get extra lean. I've still got a lot of prop but i'll probably give it to my friend who is a GREAT responder to steroids... I'm jealous... He can pop Havoc and FEEL it pretty quickly, i envy him so much.
 
UnrealMachine said:
I have discussed this with a couple people who all seem to say it's a receptor issue, and it's possible that my natural test is just really high and that's why I've made natural gains so easily and gotten so little out of steroids.
Click to expand...

Lots of different steroids hit completely different receptors though. Since SD works so well i'm assuming there are others that will also work.

I said it before, but the reason people recommend a certain dose is because the sides outweigh the gains. If you're not getting sides or gains it seems like you just need to use more/different compounds stacked.
 
UnrealMachine said:
So I said I would do PCT but instead I kept pinning myself, hoping that eventually the prop would do something. I considered the possibility that maybe this could be enanthate that's dosed at 100mg/mL.

Well it's now day 3 of week 5 and there's no changes. I continue to be horny, and in the past few days a couple more pimples have popped up. My weight continues to be stagnant, my strength continues to be stagnant, and i still do not notice any changes in my lifting at the gym. The pumps that once felt so good now feel pretty normal. At this point it's hard to tell i'm on anything despite being on day 38 of test prop at 100mg ed.

I refuse to believe that I needed to eat more food, when i was eating food in such an excess that I gained more fat than muscle. I likewise refuse to believe that, after just over 3 years of weightlifting, I have reached my genetic limit and 700mg ew of testosterone won't let me budge. I refuse to believe that the testosterone I got from two different sources were both bunk (especially when this **** is making me so goddamn horny). I refuse to believe that everybody responds to all steroids, because most oral steroids do not elicit effects anywhere near their normal magnitude for me. And as testosterone is a steroid, I do not believe it elicits effects properly for me either.

I don't know how some people say they get an ON feeling and mental effects like being aggressive or driven, and I don't know how people gain more than 10 pounds off of test. I don't know understand the bloat because it just hasn't happened, i don't understand the test flu because that never happened, i don't understand "prop pain" cuz that **** is weak as hell. I don't understand how we tell everybody to use 100mg eod when twice that is, IMO weak as hell.

I have thought to reason this out and my experience with Epi is a perfect parallel and I haven't heard many comments on it, other than being told that it's not going to cause weight gain like SD. Well no ****, but no gains AT ALL in 4 weeks?

Anyway... I'm giving up on test. I don't see how it should be the base of EVERY cycle because the libido improvement is the only improvement I've noticed, and to be honest it's as much of a problem as a benefit. In terms of muscle and strength building, test doesn't have **** on oral steroids. It seems the difference is test gains are supposed to be more "keepable" but if there's no gains to keep... you see my logic. Orals have caused increases that I highly doubt any testosterone dose could achieve.

I would be pinning this **** at 2g a week if my body could handle that many injections but i don't see how it could be worth it. I'm out. I want to try tren because I have hope that high doses of trenbolone will WORK, but my verdict for this log is that Testosterone is like most other orals i've tried, it just doesn't work as well on me as it seems to on everybody else.

I had to let it out, cuz i'm tired of being told that test works for everyone, that my stuff is bunk, that I expected too much or that i don't know how to eat. I think this is a failure of the compound. I want people that read this log to know that there are people who don't make significant gains on testosterone. I want them to know that I genuinely tried as hard as I could to make gains and that i extended the duration repeatedly hoping for them.

If there's ever anyone like me that doesn't respond properly to steroids, I want to talk to you in private messages. The more I think about the situation, the more confused and frustrated I become. It pretty much plagues me constantly, promising little hope for advancing my bodybuilding stats. So i'd love to talk it out.
Click to expand...

Wow i was pretty emo when I wrote this. Maybe some aromatization made me emotional ;). Well whatever it was, I was extremely disappointed with my results from testosterone, now I feel a 500mg/week cycle for me has about 0 muscle gaining power.

Anyway, the reason i'm bumping my own log is because instead of giving up on anabolics or testosterone, i proposed a hypothesis: I need bigger doses.

And so that is what I am going to try, starting in 1 week, testosterone at high doses (over 1g). I have done a lot of reading, and some people just seem to need a high dose of test. That is to say, unlike many other compounds, the gains of testosterone can (for some people) scale almost linearly with dose.
 
Did you end up running tren over the summer? Or is that what your next cycle is going to be a ****load of test with tren?
 
UR, im not getting the reasoning behind running the test again?... If superdrol works so well with your body, why not just come up with a SD cycle and save the money? im sure you've done plenty of SD cycles before, but it is obvious that you'd do better with it vs. the test...just a thought
 
Ahhhh well I am going to run the Superdrol, it'll kickstart the cycle (i'll run Superdrol instead of a front load. I'm running Sustanon and Mast enanthate.

I'm probably going to run 30/20/20 on SD-1, this serves as a kickstart, it also gives me 10 days to compare to my Mdrol 092107 mini log. So i'll do that comparison well before the injectables kick in.

I'll start at 750 sust and 600 mast and adjust dosing from there. I am planning on ramping up test first until I'm well over a gram. And toward the end of the cycle, drop the sust down and start jacking up the mast (beyond 600 yes). I want to map out my response to these compounds at high doses. So i'll know which compounds are worth it for me to take and what doses I need.

I'm not going to expect a whole lot from test, but I know if i can make gains even slightly better than natural, then over 14 weeks it'll add up. So i'll do a long cycle. I'm run the test up pretty high. And in conjunction with masteron, there'll be more unbound testosterone, and i'll have added muscle hardness and density from the mast. I just want to lean bulk up a little higher and drop some fat off towards the end on the high dosed masteron hardening phase. I am setting myself on a goal for this cycle of 230 and 8%.

lilsugaro to be more specific, Superdrol is great but it's way to hard to keep the gains that come so fast, so this way I can try to build off of them for a long time. From the Superdrol alone I know can put on at least 10 pounds without gaining fat, hopefully i can work off that initial boost and use the continued anabolic environment to keep the weight on an slowly "solidify" it

pmo83 said:
Did you end up running tren over the summer? Or is that what your next cycle is going to be a ****load of test with tren?
Click to expand...

no i didn't run tren ace over summer, i ended up using dienolone tren and that **** gave me gyno so i figure real tren probably will as well so i'm a little afraid of it now.

Cordwood said:
Git'r done UR

how about a log, maybe update it once a week or so?
Click to expand...

So yes i am planning on logging this at least the first 10 days because I need to compare to Mdrol after that i'll update in some way, i wane to take pictures every now and then to update. I'm starting in a week, i'll make a new thread.
 
UnrealMachine said:
lilsugaro to be more specific, Superdrol is great but it's way to hard to keep the gains that come so fast, so this way I can try to build off of them for a long time. From the Superdrol alone I know can put on at least 10 pounds without gaining fat, hopefully i can work off that initial boost and use the continued anabolic environment to keep the weight on an slowly "solidify" it
Click to expand...

mmmmm, alright, now i can see your reasoning; seems legitimate. The reason I commented was b/c I see many of your posts saying how well your body reacts to SD, and when I read this thread and saw Test didnt do much for you, i just got confused on why you'd run it again. I copy you now though... good luck with this next run and keep us updated!
 
It'll be interesting to see how you react to the Mast given your positive reaction to Superdrol. You doing EOD injects of the sust?
 
pmo83 said:
It'll be interesting to see how you react to the Mast given your positive reaction to Superdrol. You doing EOD injects of the sust?
Click to expand...

my plan is to do MWF the entire cycle
 
How did you decide on the mast enth, vs something like EQ or winny?

Are you still throwing the 100 mg hdrol in there?
 
have you ever tried GH or IGFlr3? there are safe, low dose protocols of both that would probably be very beneficial to you between cycles. I have no proof of this but I have used IGF between cycles before and i really feal like it helped my body get used to the gains after a cycle and reset my bodies "baseline" to a more muscular state as well as push through barriers that i was stuck at. it is VERY VERY VERY tough for me to gain weight and IGF really helped me get through some weight goals that I took a very long time to get through.

prior to getting into lifting i weighed in around 140lbs soaking wet (keep in mind was at ~6-7% bf too though) and so before using IGF, when i would take a break from lifting or get sick or whatever, i would lose a shocking amount of muscle mass just due to my genetics. now that I've done a few mgs of IGF though, I had to take 2 months off not long ago and i only dropped <10lbs or so, which i put back on in an extremely short amount of time.

So anyway, my thoughts are that you've been cycling now on and off for awhile, that you could run a natty cycle of diesel test or something, use IGF at 40-60mcg every third day post workout over a 2-3 month period, and that would give your receptors time to normalize, and help you really set yourself up for your next cycle with the IGF. IGF is NOT expensive too, and i really didn't notice more gains at 60mcg than i did at 25-40mcg too, and at 40mcg every third day, 1mg lasts a lonnnnng time.

Just based on my own experience, and you seem to me more serious and educated on diet/training/etc than I am, but I feel like IGF could really help you break through any barrier you feel you've hit AND really set you up to respond well on your next cycle AND give your body a break for awhile. IGF works SO well when leaning out too.

also, i got gyno from tren ace and from the 19-nor stuff like Xtren, but when i was on tren ace i really didn't get gyno till i was on a relatively large dose, and actually lower doses of tren are still impressivly strong and i had no issues at those lower doses, just because you got gyno from Xtren, i wouldn't completely rule out the tren ace yet. Also, all the gyno i got from tren ace went away very quickly during PCT.
 
Cordwood said:
How did you decide on the mast enth, vs something like EQ or winny?

Are you still throwing the 100 mg hdrol in there?
Click to expand...

Yeah just sust and mast, I've already got my gear. So no EQ no winny. I originally planned on doing 100mg of Hdrol for the last 8 weeks but now i'm not going to for 2 reasons 1) SD kickstart, do not want 11 weeks of methyls, even I am not that insane 2) i'm planning on using ridiculous doses now, so 100mg of Hdrol, i say how about a gram of Mast. That's all i want out of the latter part of this cycle is some good hardener for a recomping step.

neverstop said:
have you ever tried GH or IGFlr3? there are safe, low dose protocols of both that would probably be very beneficial to you between cycles. I have no proof of this but I have used IGF between cycles before and i really feal like it helped my body get used to the gains after a cycle and reset my bodies "baseline" to a more muscular state as well as push through barriers that i was stuck at. it is VERY VERY VERY tough for me to gain weight and IGF really helped me get through some weight goals that I took a very long time to get through.

prior to getting into lifting i weighed in around 140lbs soaking wet (keep in mind was at ~6-7% bf too though) and so before using IGF, when i would take a break from lifting or get sick or whatever, i would lose a shocking amount of muscle mass just due to my genetics. now that I've done a few mgs of IGF though, I had to take 2 months off not long ago and i only dropped <10lbs or so, which i put back on in an extremely short amount of time.

So anyway, my thoughts are that you've been cycling now on and off for awhile, that you could run a natty cycle of diesel test or something, use IGF at 40-60mcg every third day post workout over a 2-3 month period, and that would give your receptors time to normalize, and help you really set yourself up for your next cycle with the IGF. IGF is NOT expensive too, and i really didn't notice more gains at 60mcg than i did at 25-40mcg too, and at 40mcg every third day, 1mg lasts a lonnnnng time.

Just based on my own experience, and you seem to me more serious and educated on diet/training/etc than I am, but I feel like IGF could really help you break through any barrier you feel you've hit AND really set you up to respond well on your next cycle AND give your body a break for awhile. IGF works SO well when leaning out too.

also, i got gyno from tren ace and from the 19-nor stuff like Xtren, but when i was on tren ace i really didn't get gyno till i was on a relatively large dose, and actually lower doses of tren are still impressivly strong and i had no issues at those lower doses, just because you got gyno from Xtren, i wouldn't completely rule out the tren ace yet. Also, all the gyno i got from tren ace went away very quickly during PCT.
Click to expand...

Funny you mention IGF... I had my refeed day yesterday so for ****s and giggles I pinned 60mcg of IGF that my friend had extra. My friend says he can notice it when he takes as low as 20mcg but all i noticed was i had an easy time eating the ridiculous amounts of carbs that a refeed day entails (of course i had some help from my bud know what I mean).

On topic - I think employing peptides in PCT and bridging between cycles is definitely a good idea to get to the next level and because of that i'm going to try to plan for an IGF run during the PCT of this cycle. I don't know how much it'll help but it's worth a try; if it can keep me lean then that's plenty because staying lean is my problem.

For me to take it to the next level, i have to be able to maintain this leanness naturally, and that's hard to do. I'm normally 15% bf so being below 10% is way way hard for me to maintain, a lot of work, so if i can come out of the cycle big and lean and use some IGF to stay lean during and PAST pct that would be the greatest success I could ask for.
 
What about GH? Give me a few grand and I'll give you a GH log.
 
UnrealMachine said:
Funny you mention IGF... I had my refeed day yesterday so for ****s and giggles I pinned 60mcg of IGF that my friend had extra. My friend says he can notice it when he takes as low as 20mcg but all i noticed was i had an easy time eating the ridiculous amounts of carbs that a refeed day entails (of course i had some help from my bud know what I mean).

On topic - I think employing peptides in PCT and bridging between cycles is definitely a good idea to get to the next level and because of that i'm going to try to plan for an IGF run during the PCT of this cycle. I don't know how much it'll help but it's worth a try; if it can keep me lean then that's plenty because staying lean is my problem.

For me to take it to the next level, i have to be able to maintain this leanness naturally, and that's hard to do. I'm normally 15% bf so being below 10% is way way hard for me to maintain, a lot of work, so if i can come out of the cycle big and lean and use some IGF to stay lean during and PAST pct that would be the greatest success I could ask for.
Click to expand...

sounds like IGF will be perfect for what you're looking for then because that is almost exactly my experience with IGF. staying lean on IGF is very easy for me, and your diet is MUCH more strict and calculated than me. I wouldn't be surprised if you actually gained a pound or two while losing bodyfat over a 6 week IGF cycle.

yeah, IGF Is pretty subtle. its hard to really "feel" for me other than having a ridiculous hunger for carbs and muscles harder, small increase in vascularity. I do notice it after 2 weeks though that i get leaner really no matter what my diet is like too, which is awesome. I've found IGF gains to be very easy to keep too. it does make me slightly lethargic though, probably the IGF messing up my natural GH release?

Also, using 40mcg of IGF every day for the first 5-8 days of PCT really REALLY helps me recover more quickly. I will never do a PCT without IGF again, its that much better for me and it also clears my skin up (which gets bad for me during PCT). I've also had GREAT luck using IGF to heal nagging injuries in my shoulders and elbows.

another less important thing is that when i'm on IGF its just easier for me to stay interested and motivated too since it keeps your gains coming and really helps you hold onto your gains through PCT. i dont know about you but i have trouble sometimes keeping my motivation at the same level after i've been in PCT for a few weeks as i just work out as hard as i can and lose weight and all that. sort of a mind game, but just knowing i'm still "on" makes it easier for me to keep it going.

when using <50mcg and only using it every third day or longer I still can 'feel' it working 8 weeks later but that is about as long as i've ever run it without taking a break. I certainly notice a drop off in effect after 4-5 weeks though.
 
I'd probably start with something like 40mcg post-WO and averaging 4 WO days a week, 1mg would last me.... about 6 weeks which is perfect. I've already got a ton of slin pins for it.

It's fun to think about, i think this can be really successful. I took my progress pictures today and i feel fatter, so staying lean coming off a cycle is definitely the hardest part for me.
 
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