First cycle help for a noob who's researched his ass off

[LAGear]

Hello!

So I'm a noob to PH/PS/AAS but I don't feel like one because I've been researching them for weeks and weeks. I've spent so much time obsessing over this that it's impairing other areas of my life!

Up until Thursday I was going to run Havoc. And then I read one too many occurrences of gyno so I decided I should start with h-drol which is more mild. However, I'm reading about cases of gyno with h-drol too So I'm torn but leaning towards h-drol.

I'm 37, 5'9", 165lb, about 10% BF and been lifting over 15 years. Main goal is cut/recomp with some lean muscle gain. I want to get my abs to pop as much as possible.

All of my research involved Havoc so I'm trying to modify for h-drol. Here is my cycle/pct plan:

EDIT: PLEASE SEE POST #24 FOR REVISED PLAN! THANKS FOR YOUR HELP!

Weeks 1-4 h-drol 50/50/75/75 -- Sound OK for my stats?
Weeks 1-4 Taurine (continued into weeks 5-8 if pumps are an issue) - Is this needed with h-drol? What dosage?
Weeks 1-4 cissus (continued into weeks 5-8 if joints are an issue) - Is this needed with h-drol? What dosage?
Weeks 1-8 Liver support: AI Life Support (pill form of AI Cycle Support)
Weeks 1-8 PP Toco-8
Weeks 5-8 Creatine
Weeks 5-8 Test booster: PP Sustain Alpha
Weeks 5-8 Test booster/Trans-resveratrol: AI Post Cycle Support
Weeks 5-8 SERM: Toremifene 40 ED or Nolva 10 ED (I may skip SERM if I don't feel like I need it)
Weeks 6-8 Anti cortisone: PP EndoAmp Max - Is waiting a week into PCT appropriate?

Havoc PCT does not require an AI, but I know one is required for h-drol. Because it wasn't needed for Havoc I did not research AI's much. From what I read I thought Formex sounded best but many others are popular. What do you guys recommend?

Also, I'm getting second thoughts about using Sustain Alpha just because of the inconvenience of using a topical. I settled on SA early in my research and didn't spend much time considering alternatives. What do you recommend? I hear a lot of good things about Activate Xtreme, T-Bol, Blue Up and Mass FX. I like SA but transdermal has its pros and cons so I haven't decided about that yet.

Anything missing? CoQ10? ZMA? B6? I3c? DHEA? Tribulus? These are all commonly recommended for PCT but I don't know that they're necessary for h-drol (they weren't for Havoc).

Should I run my cycle for five weeks instead of four? And if I do, can I cut PCT to three weeks? Here's the situation, I have a week-long vacation in eight and a half weeks. I want to start my cycle on Tuesday (soonest I'll get the h-drol) and finish PCT before my trip because diet and workout opportunities will be sub-optimal. Plus I want to drink So my cycle/pct options are 4/4, 5/3, or 5/4 with the final week of PCT being on vacation.

As I said elsewhere, I can't wait to finally start because I don't think I'll have to work as hard on cycle as I did preparing to cycle!

Sorry for the long post! When noobs don't provide enough info you guys always ask for more info. I tried to include all the stuff that people usually neglect to include when requesting help.

THANKS!

 

[lennoxchi]

h-drol dosages look fine, but you might not need to go to 75, wait and see. 5 or 6 weeks on hd will be fine also
toco-8? why?

 

[LAGear]

h-drol dosages look fine, but you might not need to go to 75, wait and see. 5 or 6 weeks on hd will be fine also
toco-8? why?

Toco 8 is to help prevent hair loss. Plus if I end up using Sustain Alpha it comes in Primordial's TRS stack.

Based on the vacation situation I explained a six week cycle isn't an option. If I did that I'll be on vacation in just my third week of PCT and unable to lift, struggle to eat clean and suffer from alcohol abstention.

Plus isn't six weeks pushing it for a first cycle?

If I ran the cycle for five weeks I could either do a three week PCT (so I'd be done by the time I go on vacation) or I could do four weeks with the last week of PCT being on vacation (meaning imperfect diet and maybe nowhere to lift)? What's the better option?

 

[GeekPoop]

1st ph cycle Halo

Id run it

Halo 6weeks
50mg-75mg (Id go for 75mg its really mild)

PCT
1-4 Some type of natural test booster ex Hyper Test PCT Assist
1-4 Some type of AI (you probably wont need a serm for halo) ex SNS Inhibit E 75/50/50/25
3-4+ Cortisol blocker

Support sups
Hawthron Berry 2 week preload @ 1g - 2g run constantly through cycle
liver support - dose 4 hours away from halo
taurine IF needed 5-6g will take care of backpumps that you probably wont get
I think 10caps of 1000mg fish oil will do your joints fine, im on treandrol/epi and I dont click,clack or have any pain.

you can throw ZMA in your PCT if you want but Hypertest has it in there already and halo is really libido friendly.



Cut after you PCT, during PCT you'll want to hit it 110% to keep what you gained

 

[LAGear]

1st ph cycle Halo

Id run it

Halo 6weeks
50mg-75mg (Id go for 75mg its really mild)

PCT
1-4 Some type of natural test booster ex Hyper Test PCT Assist
1-4 Some type of AI (you probably wont need a serm for halo) ex SNS Inhibit E 75/50/50/25
3-4+ Cortisol blocker

Support sups
Hawthron Berry 2 week preload @ 1g - 2g run constantly through cycle
liver support - dose 4 hours away from halo
taurine IF needed 5-6g will take care of backpumps that you probably wont get
I think 10caps of 1000mg fish oil will do your joints fine, im on treandrol/epi and I dont click,clack or have any pain.

you can throw ZMA in your PCT if you want but Hypertest has it in there already and halo is really libido friendly.



Cut after you PCT, during PCT you'll want to hit it 110% to keep what you gained

You say six weeks too. I won't object if you guys all think it's a good idea for a first cycle.

But if I do a six week cycle that means either week two or week three (depending on preloading) is going to be on vacation with sub-optimal eating and training for five days. Will slacking for five days during my second week of PCT destroy my gains?


I'm not going to use the SERM unless I feel i need it but I'm going to have it on hand just in case.

Speaking of SERMs, if I'm taking an AI but not using a SERM can I drink alcohol during PCT?

Preload for two weeks totally kills my schedule. Is that much really needed for h-drol? I could do four and stay on schedule. Would that be stupid?

Thanks for your help guys!

 

[lennoxchi]

You say six weeks too. I won't object if you guys all think it's a good idea for a first cycle.

But if I do a six week cycle that means either week two or week three (depending on preloading) is going to be on vacation with sub-optimal eating and training for five days. Will slacking for five days during my second week of PCT destroy my gains?


I'm not going to use the SERM unless I feel i need it but I'm going to have it on hand just in case.

Speaking of SERMs, if I'm taking an AI but not using a SERM can I drink alcohol during PCT?

Preload for two weeks totally kills my schedule. Is that much really needed for h-drol? I could do four and stay on schedule. Would that be stupid?

Thanks for your help guys!

no slacking will not hurt your gains if your going the 6 weeks. try and behave the best you can, but have fun or better yet, why not wait til you get back for vacation? why all the drinking questions....? it won't kill you, are you talking 1 or 2 or 10? big difference

 

[UKStrength]

I'd wait until you get back from vacation mate, no point taking a chance if you don't have to.

Maybe run a test booster or another supplement in the run-up to it if you need to, but I wouldn't like to be in PCT whilst abroad!

 

[GeekPoop]

You say six weeks too. I won't object if you guys all think it's a good idea for a first cycle.

But if I do a six week cycle that means either week two or week three (depending on preloading) is going to be on vacation with sub-optimal eating and training for five days. Will slacking for five days during my second week of PCT destroy my gains?


I'm not going to use the SERM unless I feel i need it but I'm going to have it on hand just in case.

Speaking of SERMs, if I'm taking an AI but not using a SERM can I drink alcohol during PCT?

Preload for two weeks totally kills my schedule. Is that much really needed for h-drol? I could do four and stay on schedule. Would that be stupid?

Thanks for your help guys!

I ran it for 6 weeks 75mg, halo doesnt really kick in late week 2 or sometime aroudn week 3, so thats why I opted for you to run it a little longer to get the full benefits of it.

I dont think 5 days will mess ya up to much, just really focus before/after vacation.

You can drink during PCT, but I refrain because you liver was under some stress and alcohol has some pretty neg effects of bbing.

Good call on the serm, just store it and you can always use it for a later cycle down the road!

You dont have to preload. The reason is it takes about 2 weeks for HB to start taking effect, and if you BP skyrockets, start HB then is to late and you will have to end your cycle if BP gets to high. So yes you can start a cycle w/o preloading but if you do, Id reccomend you monitor your BP and still take HB.

 

[LAGear]

The reason I'd rather not wait until I get back from vacation is because it will be the middle of June. So by the time I finish a six week cycle it will be the end of July and summer almost over at that point. I want to reap the benefits of the cycle all summer long, ya know?

As for drinking, the vacation is at a place where there's going to be a lot of partying and drinking. I hardly ever drink anymore because it's counterproductive to my working out. But I'm going to want to let lose while I'm on vacation. I don't have to drink, but I'd rather not worry the whole time about destroying my liver or jacking my gains. I'll stick to light beer which will probably be more forgiving than liquor.

Couple more questions.

DIET - As I said, my goal is cut over bulk. I know diet is really important on cycle but I'm not sure how to adjust my diet. Usually to cut I mix in more cardio and less calories. But on a cycle you still have to up your calories even if you want to cut. So is there some rule of thumb to help me figure out far over maintenance I should go?

CARDIO - What about cardio? I 've been doing about 20 minutes post workout, about 30 minutes on non-lifting days, and one 60 minute cross training session per week. It's not consistent though, I run 3-5 days a week depending on my schedule. I know you aren't supposed to do a lot of cardio on cycle but I don't think I'm overdoing it. Can I stick with my routine?

TRAINING - My workouts revolve around compound exercises with very little isolation exercise. Should I be doing more targeted isolation movements for the areas I want to develop most while on the cycle? Or is it best to stick with primarily compound exercises?

 

[mw1]

1st ph cycle Halo

Id run it

Halo 6weeks
50mg-75mg (Id go for 75mg its really mild)

PCT
1-4 Some type of natural test booster ex Hyper Test PCT Assist
1-4 Some type of AI (you probably wont need a serm for halo) ex SNS Inhibit E 75/50/50/25
3-4+ Cortisol blocker

Support sups
Hawthron Berry 2 week preload @ 1g - 2g run constantly through cycle
liver support - dose 4 hours away from halo
taurine IF needed 5-6g will take care of backpumps that you probably wont get
I think 10caps of 1000mg fish oil will do your joints fine, im on treandrol/epi and I dont click,clack or have any pain.

you can throw ZMA in your PCT if you want but Hypertest has it in there already and halo is really libido friendly.



Cut after you PCT, during PCT you'll want to hit it 110% to keep what you gained

Good info^^^^^^^

 

[UKStrength]

The reason I'd rather not wait until I get back from vacation is because it will be the middle of June. So by the time I finish a six week cycle it will be the end of July and summer almost over at that point. I want to reap the benefits of the cycle all summer long, ya know?

As for drinking, the vacation is at a place where there's going to be a lot of partying and drinking. I hardly ever drink anymore because it's counterproductive to my working out. But I'm going to want to let lose while I'm on vacation. I don't have to drink, but I'd rather not worry the whole time about destroying my liver or jacking my gains. I'll stick to light beer which will probably be more forgiving than liquor.

I can totally understand your reasons for going on cycle before summer, I had the same dilemma, but chose to be safe and cycle at home where I know I can get access to anything I need (doctors, meds etc.) without hassle.

I'd stay away from alcohol during cycle/PCT period mate, but that's just me. I'm against anything that would hinder my recovery.

Couple more questions.

DIET - As I said, my goal is cut over bulk. I know diet is really important on cycle but I'm not sure how to adjust my diet. Usually to cut I mix in more cardio and less calories. But on a cycle you still have to up your calories even if you want to cut. So is there some rule of thumb to help me figure out far over maintenance I should go?

I'd stay at maintenance at first and drop the calories/increase the cardio thereafter, the H-drol will prevent muscle wastage by keeping you in an anabolic state, near-24/7.

CARDIO - What about cardio? I 've been doing about 20 minutes post workout, about 30 minutes on non-lifting days, and one 60 minute cross training session per week. It's not consistent though, I run 3-5 days a week depending on my schedule. I know you aren't supposed to do a lot of cardio on cycle but I don't think I'm overdoing it. Can I stick with my routine?

You can do as much or as little cardio as you want, being on-cycle doesn't change that. If anything it's an opportunity to do more without worrying about catabolism because you're running DS.

The only thing I'd be concerned about is your blood pressure, if you're sensitive to these then the DS will exacerbate it further. Be cautious and do more low-intensity cardio or adjust your diet if you're unsure.

TRAINING - My workouts revolve around compound exercises with very little isolation exercise. Should I be doing more targeted isolation movements for the areas I want to develop most while on the cycle? Or is it best to stick with primarily compound exercises?

If you grow well doing very little direct isolation work then carry on as you are, the DS will just augment the effect of your training.

You should have the capacity to do more training/increase your volume and not risk over-training while on-cycle, so it's an opportunity to do more work if your and addict to the iron like me

 

[GeekPoop]

Good info^^^^^^^

:thanks:
:006:

 

[LAGear]

UK - First of all THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR ADVICE!!

I can totally understand your reasons for going on cycle before summer, I had the same dilemma, but chose to be safe and cycle at home where I know I can get access to anything I need (doctors, meds etc.) without hassle.

I'm not going out of the country, just visiting another state for a few days. I'm going to bring all my PCT supps with me, including SERM just in case. My only concerns were that for those five days I may not be able to do any training and my diet will be less than perfect. But you guys helped me see that five off days aren't going to hurt me as long as everything else is on track.

I'd stay at maintenance at first and drop the calories/increase the cardio thereafter, the H-drol will prevent muscle wastage by keeping you in an anabolic state, near-24/7.

I was surprised to read this because I've read many posts telling people to ramp up their calories on cycle. You are suggesting dropping below maintenance calories while on cycle? That's the first time I've heard that. Even though my primary goal is cutting I would like to take advantage of the cycle to bulk up a bit as well. Am I going to be able to put on muscle with a caloric deficit?


Big thanks to you too GP!

PCT
1-4 Some type of natural test booster ex Hyper Test PCT Assist
1-4 Some type of AI (you probably wont need a serm for halo) ex SNS Inhibit E 75/50/50/25
3-4+ Cortisol blocker

Cut after you PCT, during PCT you'll want to hit it 110% to keep what you gained

Any thoughts about using Formex as AI for h-drol? I hear great thing about it but seems fairly untested. If I decide against Formex then I'll take your recommendation of Inhibit E?

I already bought PCS which is very similar to PCT Assist so I'll have to try PCT Assist on another cycle. As I said before, I was also planning on using Sustain Alpha in my PCT but I'm concerned about using a topical. It's going to be hard for me to consistently apply as directed. If I decide not to use the SA would using HyperTest with PCS be a good idea? HyperTest has totally different ingredients so it looks like it might make a good addition to PCS. For that matter, does it make any sense to stack SA with PCS since the main ingredient of both is Resveratrol?

I really appreciate the specific product recommendations to use with h-drol. And I appreciate the endorsement of those recommendations by CEL rep mw1.

When you say I should cut after PCT what are you recommending for the cycle? Maintenance or bulk program? I do not want to gain BF on cycle under any circumstance. I'm right around 10% BF and no matter what I do I just can't seem to break below that barrier. I need to use the cycle to help me break through; if my body fat increases on the cycle I will consider the cycle to be a failure.



What about the SERM. I am going to have one just in case. Any specific reason to prefer Torem or Nolva over the other for h-drol? Or is it purely a matter of personal preference? I would like to avoid Clomid unless there's a really good reason to use it with h-drol.

Thanks!

 

[UKStrength]

I was surprised to read this because I've read many posts telling people to ramp up their calories on cycle. You are suggesting dropping below maintenance calories while on cycle? That's the first time I've heard that. Even though my primary goal is cutting I would like to take advantage of the cycle to bulk up a bit as well. Am I going to be able to put on muscle with a caloric deficit?

Your primary goal is to lose fat, and possibly build some muscle.

Unfortunately you can't do much of both very efficiently at the same time, hence stick at maintenance calories in the first instance, then drop your calories/or increase cardio when your fat loss plateaus.

The anti-catabolic effect of the DS should help you maintain your muscle in a pretty drastic calorie deficit (this why people still use them in a cut). So you'll be stripping off the fat but preserving near-everything you've built thus-far, leading to the illusion of 'building' muscle in calorie deficit.

Depending on how anabolic the compound is, some significant muscle can be built in a deficit, but few are able to do this (e.g. Trenobolone).

 

[LAGear]

Your primary goal is to lose fat, and possibly build some muscle.

Unfortunately you can't do much of both very efficiently at the same time, hence stick at maintenance calories in the first instance, then drop your calories/or increase cardio when your fat loss plateaus.

The anti-catabolic effect of the DS should help you maintain your muscle in a pretty drastic calorie deficit (this why people still use them in a cut). So you'll be stripping off the fat but preserving near-everything you've built thus-far, leading to the illusion of 'building' muscle in calorie deficit.

Depending on how anabolic the compound is, some significant muscle can be built in a deficit, but few are able to do this (e.g. Trenobolone).

I know you ordinarily can't cut and bulk but I thought you could do both on a cycle. It seems like just about every log I've read indicates that the user bulked and lost BF at the same time. Especially so with Havoc/Epi and Halo. Perhaps I misunderstood or the loggers were under the illusion that they were doing both when in actuality they were only doing one or the other...

 

[GeekPoop]

UK - First of all THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR ADVICE!!

I'm not going out of the country, just visiting another state for a few days. I'm going to bring all my PCT supps with me, including SERM just in case. My only concerns were that for those five days I may not be able to do any training and my diet will be less than perfect. But you guys helped me see that five off days aren't going to hurt me as long as everything else is on track.

I was surprised to read this because I've read many posts telling people to ramp up their calories on cycle. You are suggesting dropping below maintenance calories while on cycle? That's the first time I've heard that. Even though my primary goal is cutting I would like to take advantage of the cycle to bulk up a bit as well. Am I going to be able to put on muscle with a caloric deficit?


Big thanks to you too GP!

Any thoughts about using Formex as AI for h-drol? I hear great thing about it but seems fairly untested. If I decide against Formex then I'll take your recommendation of Inhibit E?

I already bought PCS which is very similar to PCT Assist so I'll have to try PCT Assist on another cycle. As I said before, I was also planning on using Sustain Alpha in my PCT but I'm concerned about using a topical. It's going to be hard for me to consistently apply as directed. If I decide not to use the SA would using HyperTest with PCS be a good idea? HyperTest has totally different ingredients so it looks like it might make a good addition to PCS. For that matter, does it make any sense to stack SA with PCS since the main ingredient of both is Resveratrol?

I really appreciate the specific product recommendations to use with h-drol. And I appreciate the endorsement of those recommendations by CEL rep mw1.

When you say I should cut after PCT what are you recommending for the cycle? Maintenance or bulk program? I do not want to gain BF on cycle under any circumstance. I'm right around 10% BF and no matter what I do I just can't seem to break below that barrier. I need to use the cycle to help me break through; if my body fat increases on the cycle I will consider the cycle to be a failure.



What about the SERM. I am going to have one just in case. Any specific reason to prefer Torem or Nolva over the other for h-drol? Or is it purely a matter of personal preference? I would like to avoid Clomid unless there's a really good reason to use it with h-drol.

Thanks!

NP man, i just reccomend what I know works good (from experience) and what I use.

Id keep youre claories a little above matience, making sure they're clean of course.
do some high intensity cardio while on your cycle, 7-10mins all out sprint then 7-10mins as fast as you can go on an ellipitcal or some other machine.

Your diet will determine your BF rising or lowering for the most part, if nothing else halo tends to drop about 1-2BF pretty easily.

Idk about SA and stuff, havent looked at it or reserached it. And I dont beleive in reveristol

 

[LAGear]

One more question about my cycle.

I've seen quite a few people recommend running an AI and/or test booster while on cycle for faster recovery in PCT. Would this be a good idea for a h-drol or is h-drol too mild to consider doing this?

If anyone thinks it's a good idea please recommend dosage for the cycle.

Thanks again!

 

[GMG760]

One more question about my cycle.

I've seen quite a few people recommend running an AI and/or test booster while on cycle for faster recovery in PCT. Would this be a good idea for a h-drol or is h-drol too mild to consider doing this?

If anyone thinks it's a good idea please recommend dosage for the cycle.

Thanks again!

An AI is not neccisary on cycle because Hdrol does not aromatize... it has nothing to do with being mild or harsh. You actually want some estrogen in your body to get the most out of your gains. That's the reason a SERM is used during PCT and why you are supposed to wait a week or two in PCT to start an AI... you just don't want it to give you man-tits. Thus, we have the SERM. At 50-75mg hdrol... you probably don't need a SERM. Around 100mg it might start being a good idea.

A test booster shouldn't be needed on cycle, as your libido may wane, but it's not gonna drop off the face of the planet like it would on say a Superdrol or Tren cycle.

 

[LAGear]

An AI is not neccisary on cycle because Hdrol does not aromatize... it has nothing to do with being mild or harsh. You actually want some estrogen in your body to get the most out of your gains. That's the reason a SERM is used during PCT and why you are supposed to wait a week or two in PCT to start an AI... you just don't want it to give you man-tits. Thus, we have the SERM. At 50-75mg hdrol... you probably don't need a SERM. Around 100mg it might start being a good idea.

A test booster shouldn't be needed on cycle, as your libido may wane, but it's not gonna drop off the face of the planet like it would on say a Superdrol or Tren cycle.

Hmmmm... I've heard of waiting a week or two into PCT to start anti-cortisol but I think this is the first I've heard of waiting a week or two to start an AI. Then if you have a four week PCT you only take the AI for two weeks?

I'd love to get a second opinion on this if someone else can chime in on it? Is it best to wait 1-2 weeks before starting AI with hdrol?

If it is best to wait on the AI I'm going to feel like an idiot because I've been researching this for weeks and don't know how I could've missed something so basic. (In my defense until four days ago I was focused on Havoc which requires no AI )

 

[GMG760]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/66113-no-excuses-no.html

Excerpt from TheSinner's PCT thread. -

The first thing we need to understand is what is going on with our bodies when we're taking anabolic steroids:
Exogeneous anabolic hormones (or derivatives of anabolic hormones) are being brought into your system. This causes the body to take a number of responsive actions. The first and foremost (as you already know) is increased muscle mass. Unfortunately, other things are also going on that aren't so great

When an enzyme or hormone is brought exogeneously into the system, chemical balances shift around to attain a certain equilibrium. This is a chemical concept known as Le Chatelier's Principle of Chemical Equilibria. In a nutshell, your body will increase production of estrogen, cortisol, and other hormones in response to heightened testosterone levels, while simultaneously slowering (or completely stopping) natural production of testosterone. Biologist call this negative feedback.......biology sucks doesn't it?

Le Chatelier's Principle for the scientifically impaired:
Let's pretend A and B react to make C (can't get much simpler than that).

A + B --------> C

So we have a mixture containing A, B, and C. According to LeChatlier's principle, if we add more C to the mixture, the amounts of A and B will increase. If we remove some of the C from the mixture, A and B will decrease. And if we were to add A, B, or a combination of the two, C will increase. Still with me here? Good.


What's going on when we come off a cycle:
Ok, so while we're on the cycle, are natural test production is going down to compensate for the exogeneous test intake, and our production of other steroid hormones (i.e. Estrogen, Cortisol, etc.) is going up to compensate for the heightened test levels. When we come off a cycle, we cease intake of exogeneous testosterone. In other words, we have very low test levels, and very high cortisol and estrogen levels: it's the EXACT OPPOSITE of what we had while starting our cycle.

REMEMBER Le Chatelier's Principle because this is where it gets really important. When we have an excess of one hormone, the others will start shifting around, to attain a certain equilibrium. Ok, I'm gonna say it (and bold it) again because it's just that important. When we have an excess of one hormone, the others will start shifting around, to attain a certain equilibrium. It is a very common misconception that we want to eradicate estrogen . High estrogen levels play an integral part in Post Cycle therapy. That's right, you want to welcome high estrogen with open freaking arms, but there's a trick to it. And that trick is the almighty SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator).

SERM's: the foundation of post cycle therapy:
Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators are (and damn well should be) the foundation for any proper post-cycle therapy plan. A post cycle therapy plan without them, isn't a post cycle therapy plan: it's a bunch of crap you decided to take after doing a cycle. The purpose of a SERM is to block the negative effects estrogen, while your hormone levels go back to equilibrium.

 

[KgTomCat]

looks ok to me, log it!

 

[r6samson]

Halodrol already contains an AI: 4-Etioallocholen-3, 6, 17-Trione (i.e. 6-OXO)

Not a fan of this due to Arachidonic Acid in the formulation. DHEA, test booster, AI, and (ideally) a 5-Alpha Reductase Inhibitor would be a cheaper/safer put together stack in my opinion.


If you have prostate conditions you may want to reconsider a hormone that readily converts to DHT. The AI only helps E2 effects NOT DHT sides from enzymatic activity from 5-Alpha Reductase.

Great formulation in my opinion and thought of it before I even saw Halodrol's version...


From the info posted and I skimmed responses seem legit. These are just facts presented to help in your decision...mere suggestions if you will so please no one take offense.


EDIT: For a Cortisol blocker...any sympathomimetic will inhibit cortisol production BUT don't be DUMB if you go that route!!!

 

[southbaseball]

I have a problem and need to post new threads how do i do it? i cant figure it out!

 

[LAGear]

I've drastically revised my cycle. If you wouldn't mind I'd love to get some feedback on this.

Weeks 1-5 H-drol 50/50/75/75/75 - split 2 doses/day
Weeks 1-9 AI's Life Support (pill form of Cycle Support) - 4 caps ED 2 doses/day

PCT
Weeks ?-9 Lean Xtreme - When to start cortisol blocker and how much to use?
Weeks 6-9 Diesel Test Hardcore - 3 caps ED - Split dose or all at once?
Weeks 6-9 Post Cycle Support - 4 caps ED 2 doses/day
Weeks 6-10 6-oxo 300/300/300/200/100 - Split dose or all at once?
Weeks 6-9 Torem 120x3, 90x4 /60/60/30

Should I add 6-oxo midway into PCT to protect against estrogen rebound and gyno?
Weeks 8-12 6-oxo 300/300/300/200/100

Other supps: Whey, BCAA, Taurine, Cissus, Toco-8, Beta Alanine, EFA, CLA, creatine


How's it look???

As you can see, I'm a little uncertain about timing of LX, DTH & 6-oxo.

THANKS!

 

[LAGear]

I have a problem and need to post new threads how do i do it? i cant figure it out!

Right above the list of threads is a button that says "New Topic" just click on that to start a new thread.

Halodrol already contains an AI: 4-Etioallocholen-3, 6, 17-Trione (i.e. 6-OXO)

Not a fan of this due to Arachidonic Acid in the formulation. DHEA, test booster, AI, and (ideally) a 5-Alpha Reductase Inhibitor would be a cheaper/safer put together stack in my opinion.


If you have prostate conditions you may want to reconsider a hormone that readily converts to DHT. The AI only helps E2 effects NOT DHT sides from enzymatic activity from 5-Alpha Reductase.

Great formulation in my opinion and thought of it before I even saw Halodrol's version...


From the info posted and I skimmed responses seem legit. These are just facts presented to help in your decision...mere suggestions if you will so please no one take offense.


EDIT: For a Cortisol blocker...any sympathomimetic will inhibit cortisol production BUT don't be DUMB if you go that route!!!

As a noob I have to say I couldn't understand any of that, but I do appreciate the time and effort to help :006:

 

[KgTomCat]

I've drastically revised my cycle. If you wouldn't mind I'd love to get some feedback on this.

Weeks 1-5 H-drol 50/50/75/75/75 - split 2 doses/day
Weeks 1-9 AI's Life Support (pill form of Cycle Support) - 4 caps ED 2 doses/day

PCT
Weeks ?-9 Lean Xtreme - When to start and how much to use?
Weeks 6-9 Diesel Test Hardcore - 3 caps ED - Split dose or all at once?
Weeks 6-9 Post Cycle Support - 4 caps ED 2 doses/day
Weeks 6-10 6-oxo 300/300/300/200/100 - Split dose or all at once?

IF SERM NEEDED:
Weeks 6-9 Torem 120x3, 90x4 /60/60/30
Weeks 8-12 6-oxo 300/300/300/200/100

Other supps: Whey, BCAA, Taurine, Cissus, Toco-8, Beta Alanine, EFA, CLA, creatine


How's it look???

As you can see, I'm a little uncertain about timing of LX, DTH & 6-oxo.

THANKS!

Lean Extreme-Never used
Diesel Test-I'd split it throughout the day, but Ive never taken that
6OXO-take it at night
everything else looks good

 

[KgTomCat]

GMG, any words of advice man?

 

[LAGear]

Lean Extreme-Never used
Diesel Test-I'd split it throughout the day, but Ive never taken that
6OXO-take it at night
everything else looks good

Lean Xtreme is a cortisol blocker. I've read you should start on day 1, day 8, day 15 of PCT. When should the cortisol blocker be started? If you could give me a reason that would be helpful in my understanding.

I've finally got it through my thick skull that I do not need an AI with h-drol because it doesn't aromatize. So I'm going to start my PCT with Torem. However, even though h-drol doesn't aromatize I've read that starting an AI in the middle of PCT can help prevent estrogen rebound and gyno. I'm thinking something along these lines:

PCT Weeks 1-4 Torem 120x3, 90x4 /60/60/30
Weeks 3-6 6-oxo 300/300/300/200/100

Thoughts?

 

[UGHQTempus]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/66113-no-excuses-no.html

Excerpt from TheSinner's PCT thread. -

The first thing we need to understand is what is going on with our bodies when we're taking anabolic steroids:
Exogeneous anabolic hormones (or derivatives of anabolic hormones) are being brought into your system. This causes the body to take a number of responsive actions. The first and foremost (as you already know) is increased muscle mass. Unfortunately, other things are also going on that aren't so great

When an enzyme or hormone is brought exogeneously into the system, chemical balances shift around to attain a certain equilibrium. This is a chemical concept known as Le Chatelier's Principle of Chemical Equilibria. In a nutshell, your body will increase production of estrogen, cortisol, and other hormones in response to heightened testosterone levels, while simultaneously slowering (or completely stopping) natural production of testosterone. Biologist call this negative feedback.......biology sucks doesn't it?

Le Chatelier's Principle for the scientifically impaired:
Let's pretend A and B react to make C (can't get much simpler than that).

A + B --------> C

So we have a mixture containing A, B, and C. According to LeChatlier's principle, if we add more C to the mixture, the amounts of A and B will increase. If we remove some of the C from the mixture, A and B will decrease. And if we were to add A, B, or a combination of the two, C will increase. Still with me here? Good.


What's going on when we come off a cycle:
Ok, so while we're on the cycle, are natural test production is going down to compensate for the exogeneous test intake, and our production of other steroid hormones (i.e. Estrogen, Cortisol, etc.) is going up to compensate for the heightened test levels. When we come off a cycle, we cease intake of exogeneous testosterone. In other words, we have very low test levels, and very high cortisol and estrogen levels: it's the EXACT OPPOSITE of what we had while starting our cycle.

REMEMBER Le Chatelier's Principle because this is where it gets really important. When we have an excess of one hormone, the others will start shifting around, to attain a certain equilibrium. Ok, I'm gonna say it (and bold it) again because it's just that important. When we have an excess of one hormone, the others will start shifting around, to attain a certain equilibrium. It is a very common misconception that we want to eradicate estrogen . High estrogen levels play an integral part in Post Cycle therapy. That's right, you want to welcome high estrogen with open freaking arms, but there's a trick to it. And that trick is the almighty SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator).

SERM's: the foundation of post cycle therapy:
Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators are (and damn well should be) the foundation for any proper post-cycle therapy plan. A post cycle therapy plan without them, isn't a post cycle therapy plan: it's a bunch of crap you decided to take after doing a cycle. The purpose of a SERM is to block the negative effects estrogen, while your hormone levels go back to equilibrium.

LeChatlier's principle only applies in fully reversible reactions. I know that the conversion chart has a few one way reactions so LeChatlier's really doesn't apply here.

 

[LAGear]

Hey guys, thanks again for all the advice in this thread. Really helped me out in planning everything!

Anyhow, I'm just into my third week of the cycle and am logging it. So far there's been very little there is to talk about. Halo should start kicking in real soon so thought you might want to see how the cycle's going. My log is Invalid Link Removed.

 

[LAGear]

Hey gang, I'm still unsure on whether or not to run an AI in PCT with a SERM for h-drol.

I'm definitely running Torem. I don't care that I "should be able to get away without a serm" with h-drol. I'm using a serm. So the question is do I need an AI as well?

I've got everything else figured out now but still confused about this. I thought I had it figured out (decided to drop the AI) but the more I read the more unsure I become of that decision.

Thanks!

 

[mw1]

Hey gang, I'm still unsure on whether or not to run an AI in PCT with a SERM for h-drol.

I'm definitely running Torem. I don't care that I "should be able to get away without a serm" with h-drol. I'm using a serm. So the question is do I need an AI as well?

I've got everything else figured out now but still confused about this. I thought I had it figured out (decided to drop the AI) but the more I read the more unsure I become of that decision.

Thanks!

Use the Torem and PCT Assist ~~that will be more than enough

edit- how were u going top dose the torem?

 

[LAGear]

Use the Torem and PCT Assist ~~that will be more than enough

edit- how were u going top dose the torem?

Right now my plan for Torem is 120x3, 90x2, 60x2 /60/60/30. But I've tweaked that a few times already. I'm told 60/60/30/30 should do the trick but I also hear you should start with a high dose.

If anyone has suggestions I'd love to hear them.