I think you've misunderstood my question. I wasn't at all referring to casings, colouring, or sweeteners! My question pertains to the supplements per se and the interactions and total daily intake and the impact of these long term. I'm impressed that your bloodwork looks great but this is an n=1 observation and doesn't answer my question on the potential effect of long term daily use (10+ years) of multiple supplements particularly in older males (55+).. i really wanted to know if there has been any research on this. I don't think anyone can conclusively say 'meh, don't worry about this' as we don't really know one way or the other at this stage. I suspect this may be academic as in reality very few people will adopt your level of supplementation on a daily, long term consistent basis not least because the cost would be prohibitive for most and you are in a unique position.
Not trying to derail the thread, just trying to explore the boundaries of experimenting with and taking supplements and whether there are risks with a kitchen sink approach, including with fat loss
Your question was:
Are there risks in taking so many pills? I'm thinking particularly of impacts on the heart, kidney or liver. This is something that's been on my mind a bit. I worry a bit about adverse effects of polymorphism particularly for middle to older age men. I know there are some supps that can be toxic at a higher dosage but is there a cumulative impact of taking a lot, say more than 15 pills / day, even for supps widely considered 'safe'? You are possibly at more than double this?
I answered you several different ways to make sure that I answered it in terms of total number of capsules, other ingredients, and active ingredients.
And I knew you weren't referring to sweeteners, I was replying to Smont on that part where he was talking about how a lot of people worry about minor things while neglecting the major ones. I specified that my answer there had nothing to do with you - that's actually been an ongoing conversation between him and I across topics and threads for a long time in general, so that had nothing to do with you or your question.
To make sure I answer everything that you want me to though, I'll break this post down and reply point by point:
"doesn't answer my question on the potential effect of long term daily use (10+ years) of multiple supplements particularly in older males (55+). i really wanted to know if there has been any research on this."
^^^ There is not nor will there ever be research on long term supplementation of every possible combination of multiple supplements because that would be impossible. Just like there will never be research on long term prescription combinations of every possible combination of drugs because that would be impossible also.
That's why science looks at methods of action. Most people that use a lot of supplements are strategic about it and know why they are taking what they are taking and take different things for certain reasons.
For example, no, you wouldn't want to take a multi-vitamin/mineral and then add a multi-mineral; that would be redundant and could lead to too high levels of certain minerals depending on how they are dosed. But taking Joint Support XT and Cardiovascular Support XT wouldn't be anything like that because they have different ingredients, different methods of action, different pathways, etc.
There's no magic number of pills or different ingredients taken together that would make something bad or make them interfere with each other. Certain things may interfere with each other, but most things don't. That's the same for supplements and for medications.
"I suspect this may be academic as in reality very few people will adopt your level of supplementation on a daily, long term consistent basis not least because the cost would be prohibitive for most and you are in a unique position."
I take a lot of supplements, especially general health things and I don't take anywhere near what many people I know take. I think that overall, you're really underestimating how many supplements that many bodybuilders and also especially longevity and general health supplement enthusiasts take.
If you look on the herbal side of the market, there are many things that are dosed at up to 9 capsules per day just of one single herb; and then some of these are commonly stacked as 3 or 4 things. That's 27 to 36 pills per day just on 3 to 4 products. And I'm talking herbal combinations that are popular with 60, 70, 80 year old individuals.
I'll tag
@BCseacow83 here because he works on the retail side and deals directly with a lot of general health consumers and I'm sure he'll confirm for you that people on the general health side, especially the herbal side, its very common to take a lot of capsules per day.
As far as your comment about my position, I'll point out a couple things:
- I run an FDA registered GMP compliant supplement company that has very strict inventory control standards. I don't just walk in the back and grab bottles of whatever I want. I, like any employee that works here pay for every item that we get. I'll tell you straight out, every employee of this company, myself included, gets a discount of 25% off on all the products that we take. As a consumer, you get 20% off on sales frequently and you have the option to take that discount off of multi-packs, whereas we don't do that option here for employees.
- I pay the same prices that you or anyone else does for my general health supplements from other brands. I use a lot of products from NOW Foods, some from Natures Way, some from Life Extension, and some from Doctors Best - and I pay the same thing that you do.
- I pay the same prices for my Recover EAA from Innovapharm as anyone else would; and I do the same as anyone else may and if I catch it on sale, I'll stock up. Awhile back, I bought a dozen bottles of their Lemon Iced Tea flavor when I caught it on sale bc I drink 2 scoops before every workout so I go through a ton of it.
- I pay the same prices for my protein as anyone else does and I spend a lot of protein - but I view that as part of my grocery budget. I either have to eat it or drink it, and I have a lot of food allergies and my body requires a high protein intake to get the results that I want, so its a heck of a lot cheaper for me to drink 4 to 6 shakes per day than it is to eat that equivalent amount in food, especially with my food allergies. My normal go to brands for protein are Ketogenics and Trutein, and occasionally I'll throw in some by a different brand as a treat.
I'll tell you straight out - when I was younger, I prioritized being in good shape but I did not prioritize my health and I wish that I had. I was more focused on going out and having fun and on my hobbies than I was my health.
I have an autoimmune condition and its taken a huge toll on me over the years and then the accident I was in last year really has too.
When I adopted my daughter, my health became much more important to me bc the idea of being around for her became important to me.
Yes, I take a lot of supplements - all for very specific reasons, goals, and purposes - but I can also tell you that the average person that is an avid golfer and spends more money per month on golf than I do my entire supplement budget for the month (minus protein).
In my case, I spend less money per month on supplements than I used to spend going out on Friday and Saturday nights; and I can guarantee its a lot less per month on supplements than the average person that eats fast food spends on lunch or Starbucks per month.
It's simply about prioritizing, and in my case I'm prioritizing my health.
