Experienced Vet Heavy Doses Speaking Out

monsterbox

monsterbox

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Hello,

I was once a prominent member of this forum years ago. I went offline a few years ago, but I'm back just today, to share with you as a friend.

I started using Pro-hormones at the age of 19, RPN Havoc specifically. Once the skinny guy in high school and soon became a well respected monster. That progressed into injectables, orals, and bodybuilding competitions. There was what appeared at the time to be considerable rewards. First, there was this every day desire and drive to succeed in the gym and gain. With AAS, came considerable motivation. Motivation to train, eat, focus, and become a dedicated machine to achieving goals. AAS allows the opportunity to become something that was otherwise only a dream, and to bring this to life we do no less then take full advantage of the opportunity. I dove into this forum, researching everything I could find. Spending countless hours on hormones; SHGB, test/bioavil/free, estradiol, prolactin, progesterone, lipids, etc you name it. I had eventually come up with a plan for success (summarizing here), one that was healthy, regular blood tests etc. and was able to transform in a matter of a few years. Everything changed; women, friends, jobs, etc...the dominance the became of the transformation opened doors never thought possible. I was hooked to this persona and even once I reached a nice cruising level I continued to recognize benefits in many aspects of life. Or so I thought.

Now, I don't want to go on for long as I'd like to keep this short and informative. After years of cycling, I'm here to share my conclusion of what all of this is for, its for nothing other than an identity. No matter how we try to spin it and justify our reasoning for using AAS, its deductible to absolutely no other reason but to enforce an identity. When we begin AAS, or even years into it, we may not notice this fact. At the beginning its a love affair with great emotions and energy as the weights go higher and the pumps are larger. Then the dedication increases, we start spending time reading, researching, obtaining, training, cooking, dieting, etc etc. ANY serious bodybuilder is going to know full well that the amount of dedication required to do what we do is dumbfounding. The sacrifice is great. Free time goofing around like the rest of the world becomes opportunity cost at what could be better gains. We become very conscious of our bodies, gain a sense of confidence that we can achieve what we imagine, and we push on. And in the process we are rewarded by inspiring others, motivating, helping people to live healthy lives.

Now, what I'm here today to post about is what is also becoming during this process. During this process, an identity is created. This is the new version of yourself. The self that now has achieved a new success. This new self makes new decisions, new choices, and a has a new outlook on the life and the meaning of life. A warrior is becoming.

Trust me when I say this, I do NOT believe steroids are inherently bad for you if utilized responsibly. Of all people, I'm one to push the limits. I like to go 200mph in everything that I do. I'm a believer in hard work and sacrifice. If you're going to do something, doing it with everything you've got. Make it special. Create and command the universe. However, after many years and reflection, I just want express that steroids may not be bad for our health if properly administered, but they can and will affect your consciousness.

Many guys come in here asking about 'roid rage. Mood swings, sex drive etc. All of this stuff is less of a deal than people make it out to be. Side effects are just side effects, we expect them and we learn how to be smart (hopefully). But, apart from all of this, we never ask ourselves, what is the effect on our consciousness? Our being? Our identities? Think about it, when we're worried about our estrogen levels, or a SERM / AI taper during PCT, we're not concerned or even considering what may becoming of our consciousness, of our sense of self.

What are the consequences of the gains??

No one comes in here and reports how their sense of self has changed. What doors have opened in their lives. What doors have closed. Its ONLY about the steroids, the side effects, and the muscular results.

Today, it brings me a great deal of nostalgia and profound feeling of emptiness to share, that at the end of this game, there is no clear-cut reward. Many have failed to express, that with the reward of physique, fortitude, and discipline also comes great shackles.

I'm here, not to discourage, and not to criticize, but from friendship, to warn you. The further down the path you venture, the more defined the path becomes. If you choose to hike into this forest, it will be harder to find your way back. And I wish that you will not go so far as to forget where you came from.

I walked around at 200lbs, 5" 8", and 6% bodyfat year round. This used to make me (that created identity) feel confident and goal oriented to push for success in all aspects. But as I progressed, I began to notice that the gains aren't as profound. It now takes more, pushing harder, going beyond to reach that gratification. But as we go further, the costs increase. Maybe not physically, but mentally. I have now reached a point, where I've realized a every inch of my growth from the day I began, was nothing other than a game. I had convinced myself into believing these gains were rewards. And now, at the end of the day, I've used up all my rewards. In order to have more, we must eat even more food, push even more weight, take even more gear otherwise we feel as if we're not moving.

In otherwords, life had become a goal post that was always moving backwards. The closer you get to the goal the further back it moves. Until eventually, even the very best of us reach catastrophe for that extra mile. If you don't believe it just look at a guy like Andrea Munzer. It wasn't the steroids that killed him, it was the identity that he created that killed him.

Now obviously that's a physical catastrophe and very unlikely unless you are that level of obsession. But, I must warn you, the "alpha" male feeling that's talked about by steroids is real. And this "alpha" male mentality, of course can be adopted on your own with practice, but on Androgenic/DHT compounds it will quite literally come out of you. Many may never venture to doses to were it becomes self-realized, but take a gram of tren and you'll quickly see that your personality is not so much the same. This is then realized at all levels of usage.

Let me take you into the mind a bit.

Start out with 200mg of Testosterone Cypionate, with the according ancillaries, and most will notice a nice increase in sex drive, muscle mass, and confidence, sleep, less stress etc. Its like a damn good cup of coffee for every situation. Immunity to the environment and a nice reward of gains.

Move up to 400mg the next cycle, everything has returned the same, same sense of "well-being" as we like to call it, but now the sex drive is a little higher. Gains are a little more rapid. We don't realize it, but we may be more focused, flexing a little more in the mirror, paying a little more attention to the numbers and the scale and the calories. The stakes are higher push further.

Now move up to 2000mg and throw in dbol. Now everything has increased, the gains, the libido, the "aggression" as they like to call it. But here's where things get interesting. I like to call it the "false identity" has arrived. For me, beginning in this dosage range, a new viewpoint arrives. I see life in a new lens without realizing it. I feel as though I'm important, as if the things I have to do are more important than those around me. Everyone else and everything, or obligation, can take second priority and if its not, then I feel annoyed or stressed or anxious, as I my priorities are number one. In conversations, this persona is suddenly always the dominant. Intrinsically, things that were once interesting are now boring or annoying because they don't apply to the mission of the persona, command and conquer. All while this is occurring, gains are being made and nothing actually "bad" is happening. In fact, the persona see's itself as making good progress and having fun. I was invincible, impermeable, a god. Blasting and cruising was a game of +/- in this persona. The persona would slightly weaken at 700mg cruise and then reincarnate on the blasts. It seemed to be a joy. A discovery. A success.

And then the breaking point. The hospital for emergency gallbladder removal with 48 gall stones. It was time to take a break. Time to go back to 100mg/wk HRT dosages. Whatever the reason, at some point in time, remember that there is a breaking point and you must come back down to earth.

I thought it would be easy. After all, I started at 100mg, and felt great on HRT, why would it be any different? WRONG. Immediately I went through a huge ordeal of a crash. I figured it must be bad test, high estrogen, high cortisol, dopamine withdrawals or something. What was going on? I lost a TON of muscle mass and gained a little fat. It was quite feat to see the rock hard 19's start to deflate, but that wasn't the saddening part. The saddening part was THE RETURN OF EMPATHY.

During the years of high doses, tren, masteron, and all these powerful androgens, it wasn't so much of the gains, but it was the mental sharpening that affected me. I became a dominating machine and had no idea. While I was falling, I instantly realized that things were never going to be the same. A walk through the woods on 2g of gear was now so much apparently different than a natural walk through the woods. Appreciation for small things returned. Humbleness returned. And then the mind recognized the shackles that had existed for so long. Life was passing by so quickly and being lived only for the pursuit, so much, that relationships and normal human emotions and sympathy were left behind. I soon realized the change that loved one's must have seen. The things that I missed out on from the dedication to pursue. In a sense, the intrinsic alpha that becomes of the androgen is detrimental. The accomplishments and rewards were not from helping others, but only from helping myself. I had become a selfish monster that would eliminate anything in its path, but manipulated it to myself and others as if it was for some beneficial purpose.

In the end, like I said, it was all a game. The power of being the most dominant, self sufficient, survivor and beast in every aspect ultimate became nothing but a drug induced trip. An ego trip that lasted a good deal of time and affected a good deal of people and not for any benefit. All the opportunity cost spent in these years towards this goal suddenly became largely a huge waste. The only thing left that is good is the lesson learned. The lesson learned which is to never loose sight of who you are. Never take a drug to the degree that is changes who you are. And trust me, you'll think you are fine when you are actually deluded. There is no one that can stop you or keep you in check. You decide what you want out of life.

DO. NOT. LOOSE. SIGHT. OF. WHO. YOU. WERE/ARE

Do not tell yourself that you are a new person now that you've gained 100lbs and have xx inch arms. You are no different than any other human being on this earth.

What I have learned from my experience with gear is that GEAR = EGO. The higher the dose, the more the ego. And eventually there will be a point by which its impossible to maintain any sort of empathy and humbleness.

Deductively, this leads to a great deal of confusion. If logically, more androgens = more ego/less empathy, then by definition, less androgens means more empathy less ego. Take a huge dose of clomiphene citrate and tell me how humble/sympathetic you feel. Now my question is, what dosage is "correct" for the mind. Correct for the ego. What dose doesn't hurt your inner self or others? Once you are on the path, you can never go back.





I haven't proved it or seen proof of it, but I believe that there is a feedback between the mind and the natural androgen levels of the male species. In other words, if we aren't injecting testosterone, our lifestyle choices will decide the appropriate level of ego/dominance/DHT to a limited degree. The slippery slope is that once you become exogenous, the mind is NO LONGER IN CONTROL. The ANDROGEN is now dictating the behavior of the mind. BUT the game is that the mind thinks its in control!

PCT is not so bad because you need to "restart your testosterone levels and balance your estrogen". Yes that part is unfortunate but ultimately PCT sucks because YOUR MIND has become adjusted to a new level of dominance / success and now must return to normal life, so it perceives a loss. I will dare say that steroids introduce the possibility of clear-cut extra personalities.

Coming down from 2000mg a week and 4500ng to 100mg/wk @ 750ng. My test level were perfect. Estrogen was perfect. But "I" was missing. The sex drive, the dominance, the way I commanded my thoughts, my goals, my conversations, my senses, my ambitions, my instincts, and my reactions, my thought patterns, my desires, my exhibitionism, everything was drastically different. And none of this related to the typical "pct" stuff we discuss.

I now have adjusted and am very conscious of trying to give myself a "fair" amount so that my own natural mindset can develop. I now have appreciation for things that I once appreciated many years ago and had forgotten. But, I can never go back all the way. I can never reverse the sacrifices I made. And I can never be what I would have been if I had not taken Androgens for the past 7 years.

So please, to those of you who are beginning or those of you who are experienced bodybuilders, power lifters, or vets. If you died tomorrow, is your persona what you'd wish to leave behind?

I understand that most will read this and resist what I have to say, or place the blame on me as one who was wreckless and just a story of what not to do. But remember, I'm here to tell you, that if it can happen to me it can happen to anyone. Do not delude yourself. Never loose sight of who you are when you look into that mirror or step on that scale. And at the end of the day, if this helps one person to make a different decision from wherever they might be, then my journey was not wasted.

Thanks and best regards to AnabolicMinds,

Monsterbox
 
TexasLifter89

TexasLifter89

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Yup, this is why it's important to not make it who you are and to keep a balance as with all things in life.

A very good post and something that is very real whether or not people admit it.
 

NewAgeMayan

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Wow, thats some impressive psychological insight and self-analysis you have there. Not sure I suscribe to the idea of a 'true archetypal self' as you seem to be indicating but, very interesting read nontheless.
 
Toren

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Thank-you for sharing your thoughts. I understand completely the message you have tried to get across. I think it's human nature to try and become better, no matter where that 'better' is applied. For you, me and many others, it is lifting and training. For some though, it may be something completely different that they lose themselves in. Basically, this message, the message you are trying to relay, transends bodybuilding and has the ability to reach anybody that loses themselves in the process of trying to find a better 'them'.

I once new a woman that was always in search of something that could meet the limits of her grand idealism. I told her to be careful not to lose herself and miss out on the experiences that were in front of her, all for the sake of finding something that was better than what life had allowed her to experience. I used to say to her "It's not the destination that's important but the journey along the way. And if you lose yourself within that journey, the destination you envision will never materialize". In the end, I think this thought is applicable to anything we do in life.

There is another thing for you to consider though. You would not be who you are at this exact moment without the journey of the last 7 years. So while your story may be at a point where you feel you have reached some sort of stop sign (call it a destination), it is almost certainly not the destination you envisioned for yourself. However, it may just be the fate (destination) that you were meant to see. Maybe all thing come full circle in the end and part of the entire journey is allowing ourselves to get to a place where we can see who we were when we started, who we were along the way, and who we are now. The perspective you have gained in those seven years may be exactly what you needed to allow yourself to start a new journey and at the seme time, smell the roses along the way.

Cheers
 
zman86

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My fitness goal is to achieve a specific aesthetic physique look, while at the same time enjoying a healthy and quality life. I realized many years ago, that I don't really need AAS aside from a few cycles of PH a year to achieve my physique goals.

I feel for you my friend... Muscle dysmorphia can be a serious mental issue.
 
bighulksmash

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well spoken inspirational piece , to us rookies on the way to that very expierence . thanks so much .
 
Joedoubledose

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Great post man ,deff a good read for us younger members of the board . "It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live."
 
Afi140

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Well said man.
 
jwinak82

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Wise words, a very humbling and powerful read. I have learned from this, thank you.
 

lucian1plc

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Oh man, that was just so Honestly Beautiful. Well done I really respect your words .
I'm thinking of starting my first cycling but I don't want to go that far and now I'm thinking...
 

mase1

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Great read! Everyone goes through this when they get off, you build this identity on cycle and everyone is always giving compliments, then you have to come down 2 normalcy. Sorry I always state can't look even close off cycle as on.
 
monsterbox

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Supporting Evidence

Many times, I question myself and wonder if the Identity is only from the life-style, choices, and "rewards" leading to the addiction and frenzy. We see so many oppositions to "roid-rage" or that steroids have any real effect on your mind.

Well, after much research, here is one of the first, clear-cut, no sugar coated, realistic writings about the effects of DHT/Low Estrogen on the personality. Its real. We can no longer dance around the truth. You on steroids is not the same you.

Thank you guys for considering my posts. Keep your ego in check.


The High/DHT Low Estrogen PhenoType
Defining the Chemical Map of Such Person's.
________________________________________
This is a highly intricate article, and you should know some degree of
NeuroChemistry / NeuroBiology - but I will make it as simple as possible.
_________________________________________
This article aims to define....

•Why High DHT/Low E2 Type's frequently have High B.P
•What other physical traits/symptoms would this Phenotype have
•What Behavioral/Personality Tendencies may Develop from this.
•How to reduce the negative traits / symptoms without affecting hormones.







Previously I had written an article on DHT's effects on the Brain/Nervous System. This article aims to expand on a certain phenotype (composite of someone with said "hormonal values", with a lot of the same manifestations you would see described in the DHT article.

Now on various bodybuilding forums you will see people who complain about low estrogen symptoms, "too high DHT", and the barrage of speculations that ensue on such a topic. Without any real information / sources much of the time, people try to narrow down on this stuff, but often lack in common sense to draw the real connection. I am not saying all do this, but quite a few - and so I aim to make it easier to define the "Why" and the "How" for all things "High DHT AND Low Estrogen" (occurring at the same time). Some of these will also be reminiscent of just plain low estrogen state (since DHT values aren't often accounted for in bloodwork).







Let's get one thing straight, High DHT does NOT have to be a bad thing, in fact, it is the reflection of the True Man, the embodiment of pure masculinity, true primal thoughts and actions, it's also not terrible to have low estrogen*, but it may well be for some people who do not know what may manifest.







Frequently, I often hear about "E.D (erectile dysfunction) resulting from "low estrogen", this is all over bodybuilding/steroid forums and even in the so-called grey hat medical community. To understand why this happens, you have to understand the chemical changes that take place when estrogen is lowered to near deficient states. First, estrogen is a major stimulator of Nitric Oxide synthesis - specifically neuronal Nitric Oxide Synthase(1)(2)(3), when converted from Testosterone. The low estrogen state in the male often stems from either using too high of a dosage of an AI (Aromatase Inhibitor), or from a natural (genetic) aromatase deficiency. Aromatase is the enzyme that converts our testosterone to estrogen, especially in the brain(4).

Now nitric oxide is a vasodilator, so by lowering estrogen excessively, overall systemic (throughout the body) nitric oxide may also be lowered, and the nerves that normally inspire sexual functions may wither away(5)(6).

Second to that though, are the indirect/downstream changes to the entire hormonal profile of someone with low estrogen. For example, lowering estrogen also lowers the levels of a carrier protein (literally carries hormones) called SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin)(7)(8). Testosterone can be bound by this protein and also rendered inactive, when there is less of it, Testosterone is free to bind to it's own receptor, and you end up getting more DHT this way as well (more androgen receptors to bind to).

Now as described in my other article, there are some relative changes that come with DHT elevations, DHT generally has a positive impact on erectile functions(9), however, in the face of overall Nitric Oxide deficiency, and given that DHT has the capacity to stimulate or increase Alpha-1-Adrenergic receptors(10), you may end up getting too much vasoconstriction by this mechanism.

Too little nitric oxide and and too much alpha-1-adrenergic (adrenaline) stimulation can also lead to hostile and aggressive mindsets. Which we will get to next.



HIGH DHT / Low Estrogen - Effect on Anxiety and Aggression




I do not believe testosterone (nor does ANY chemical) cause people to be aggressive, people *choose* to act on certain impulses, this is life.

However, the High-DHT/Low Estrogen state may actually have a real "behavioral type" and a strong premise to follow. This type consists of a higher impulsive state, and negative reactions(strong tendencies).

As stated before, estrogen has a strong effect on serotonin and their receptors, DHT tends to increase alpha-1-adrenergic activity, and this can lead to increases in 5-HT1A (serotonin receptor TYPE 1-A) activity. Estrogen's primary effects are on the densities of 5-H2A/2C(increase)(11),5-HT3 (antagonize)(12), and 5-HT4 (increase prolactin)(13). Most of the receptors estrogen acts on (as far as serotonin) are STIMULATORY. However, the 5-HT1A receptor inhibits serotonin release but also acts on many other peripheral zones and increases the release of endorphins(14).

*Serotonin can be calming, and inhibitory*




This means that merely the High DHT and low Estrogen state leads to much lower serotonin activity in general, something that can't be fully reversed by SSRI's or any similar drug. This doesn't even take into account other factors leading to low serotonin, and thus the effect can be compounded in people who have already had lower serotonin levels or have genetic deficiencies in serotonin or it's receptors.

This induced lack of serotonin, combined with Alpha-1-activity increases, is what leads to nervous system overstimulation by DHT and by Low Estrogen.
This can lead to impatience, high-impulsivity, and aggression. The low serotonin but combined endorphin release from the 5-HT1A receptor can lead to a relative lack of emotions(15)(16)(17)!
This same combination of effects can lead to anxiety. However, because 5-HT1A receptor activation can help social anxiety(18), it is more feasible to say that the anxiety's experienced would be of anticipatory nature (anticipation, waiting for things).
Many studies have documented the effects of low-estrogen and resultant obsessive-compulsive behavior(19).
Thus another result of High DHT and Low Estrogen would be obsessive compulsive personalities.

Because DHT increases GABA to an extent, it is likely the person will retain their sanity (at least parts of it), but they will still apply many of their OCD-behaviors - possibly subliminally.







You can actually qwell some of these stimulatory effects by taking an Alpha-1-blocker such as Doxasozin. (20)

This would also help alleviate any other vascular issues resulting from High DHT / Low Estrogen.







However if your low estrogen problem ISN'T genetic, I suggest fixin that first (namely by supplementing with boron, and stop using/overdosing on AI's).


EXTREME MALE DOMINANCE
...or the behavior of having to assert yourself over the next person. Is highly associated with the serotonin / adrenaline changes induced by the above said balance.


That's no surprise, medical science has been documenting for years the effects of Testosterone on dominance behavior(!)(!), but it is what makes us as men - WHOLE. It's not necessarily a bad thing, unless it gets out of control.
Low Estrogen and High DHT induced impulsivity though, may lead to radical dominance behavior and the blunted emotional response may lead to lack of empathy. NOT ALWAYS. However very likely.


This does not excuse a lack of willpower in the matter.

People can control themselves, and HAVE, many times with the said "imbalance", but again, it comes down to being in touch with your own mind, and if you decide to realize these things - then you make your own damn choice. It does not mean that Testosterone, the High-DHT - Low-Estrogen state CAUSES you to act, YOU do that solely, the imbalance simply creates impulsive and aggressive, and domineering tendencies.

PARANOIA

Once again, the lack of serotonin and increases in alpha-1-adrenergic activity can directly lead to paranoia in affected individuals(21).


Does it mean they will become a paranoid "schizophrenic" - NO. It just means a resonating/subtle trait of paranoia may emerge; how potent this effect is depends on many other factors. Such as stimulant use, and previously residing conditions. Keep in mind certain medical conditions may actually cause an estrogen deficiency (like adrenal fatigue, adrenal abnormalties).



ADDICTIONS

Traditionally it has been shown that low serotonin itself can lead to drug addiction and other addictions, considering the high DHT-low Estrogen type leads to significant changes in serotonin receptor distribution/density, and lowers the blood level of serotonin, while increasing adrenaline (see above). This will likely lead to two scenario's; increased alcohol dependancy / addiction (to calm nervous system), or - ironically - stimulant abuse (due to adrenal fatigue).


.This again can be mostly resolved with an Alpha-1 blocker.





PHYSICAL MANIFESTATIONS OF HIGH-DHT LOW -ESTROGEN STATE

Low estrogen is often associated with Joint Problems, Bone density decreases and Joint Clicking / Cracking.....
(DISCUSSION 1)
(DISCUSSION 2)
(SOURCE 1)
(SOURCE 2)

Also lower aromatase/estrogen individuals tend to be taller, and have longer limbs, but possibly less width and / or bone mass(1)(2)(3).

It leaves a skinny/lean or sometimes even frail build, although with high DHT you are likely to be a lean guy but has trouble gaining significant amounts of mass. You won't retain much water, if at all, your cheekbones will show, and your veins will likely be VERY pronounced.(4)(5)



Thus in addition and near Totality, the Symptoms and Effects of the HIGH DHT - Low Estrogen State include.


•High Blood Pressure; resultant anxiety, aggression
•Impulsivity
•Paranoia
•Loss of Normal Erectile Function (*possible*)
•Low Libido/Compulsive Sexual Acts
•Possible Joint Problems
•Lean / Small Build - Trouble Gaining Weight
•Much Body Hair / Facial Hair**
•Over Time - Increased Height, Long Arms / Fingers
•Pessimism / Hostility - Dominance Behavior's
•Low Water Retention - Pronounced Veins
•Altered Endogenous Opiate Levels (also contributing to increased BP)
•Sodium Retention***






OTHER SOURCES

Oestrogen modulates vascular adrenergic reactivity of the spontaneously hypertensive rat
Abstract
BACKGROUND:



Male spontaneously hypertensive rats (SHRs) show an increased vascular neurogenic response compared with normotensive Wistar-Kyoto (WKY) control rats.

OBJECTIVE:



To study the vascular adrenergic response in hypertensive and normotensive female rats, with a focus on the influence of oestrogen.

METHODS:



Female SHRs and WKY rats were allocated randomly to a control group or to groups to undergo ovariectomy or ovariectomy combined with oestrogen supplementation (17beta-oestradiol 150 microg/kg per day) for either 1 day (group 1E2) or 10 days (group 10E2). Mean arterial pressure (MAP) was recorded and small mesenteric arteries were mounted in a Multi Myograph 610M. Vascular reactivities to transmural nerve stimulation (TNS), exogenous noradrenaline and acetylcholine were analysed.

RESULTS:



MAP was significantly greater in SHRs than in WKY rats in all groups studied. Sensitivity to cumulative TNS (0.12-32 Hz) did not differ between vessels from control SHRs and WKY rats, expressed as the frequency giving 50% of maximal neurogenic response (Ef(50): 4.1 +/- 1.1 and 4.0 +/- 1.6 Hz, respectively). However, there was a greater reactivity to TNS in ovariectomized SHRs than in ovariectomized WKY rats (Ef(50) 1.8 +/- 0.7 and 6.8 +/- 2.2 Hz, respectively; P < 0.05). Oestradiol treatment significantly decreased the sensitivity to TNS in ovariectomized SHRs (P < 0.05), and after 10 days the frequency-response curves were almost identical (Ef(50) 6.3 +/- 1.9 Hz for group 10E2 SHRs and 5.6 +/- 0.8 Hz for group 10E2 WKY rats). The increased adrenergic reactivity in ovariectomized SHRs was inhibited by prazosin, an alpha(1)-adrenergic antagonist, and could not be explained by differences in endothelial function or sensitivity to applied noradrenaline.

CONCLUSION:



Increased adrenergic reactivity is not present in small arteries from female SHRs. The findings of this study suggest that oestrogenacts on prejunctional mechanisms, reducing full expression of hypertension and peripheral vascular pathology.



Effects of estradiol on phenylephrine contractility associated with intracellular calcium release in rat aorta.
The ability of estradiol to affect phenylephrine-induced contraction and the subsequent increase in resting tone, associated with capacitative Ca(2+) entry across the plasma membrane, was evaluated in rat aortic rings incubated in Ca(2+)-free solution. The incubation with estradiol (1-100 nM, 5 min) inhibited both the phenylephrine-induced contraction and the IRT. Neither cycloheximide (1 microM; inhibitor of protein synthesis) nor tamoxifen (1 microM; blocker of estrogenic receptors) modified the effects of estradiol. Estradiol (100 microM) also blocked the contractile response to serotonin (10 microM) but not to caffeine (10 mM). In addition, estradiol (100 microM) inhibited the contractile responses to cyclopiazonic acid (1 microM; selective Ca(2+)-ATPase inhibitor) associated with capacitative Ca(2+) influx through non-L-type Ca(2+) channels. Finally, estradiol inhibited the Ca(2+)-induced increases in intracellular free Ca(2+) (after pretreatment with phenylephrine) in cultured rat aorta smooth muscle cells incubated in Ca(2+)-free solution. In conclusion, estradiol interfered in a concentration-dependent manner with Ca(2+)-dependent contractile effects mediated by the stimuli of alpha(1)-adrenergic and serotonergic receptors and inhibited the capacitative Ca(2+) influx through both L-type and non-L-type Ca(2+) channels. Such effects are in essence nongenomic and not mediated by the intracellular estrogenic receptor.

The effects of 17β-oestradiol on increased α(1)-adrenergic vascular reactivity induced by prolonged ovarian hormone deprivation: the role of voltage-dependent L-type Ca channels.


Valencia-Hernández I1, Reyes-Ramírez JA, Urquiza-Marín H, Nateras-Marín B, Villegas-Bedolla JC, Godínez-Hernández D.




The present study investigated the hypothesis that the duration of ovarian hormone deprivation before reintroduction of oestrogen affects the role ofoestrogen as a mediator of the contractile function of α(1)-adrenergic receptors. Rats underwent ovariectomy (OVX) or were sham-operated, and the OVX rats were treated with vehicle (corn oil) or 17β-oestradiol (E(2)) for 5 days either 10, 28 or 60 days after OVX. The OVX increased phenylephrine- and Ca(2+)-induced contractions. Interestingly, the phenylephrine-induced contractions were increased at each of the three time points, whereas the Ca(2+)-induced contractions were only increased in the 60-day group. E(2) had biphasic effects on phenylephrine- and Ca(2+)-induced contractility. Indeed, E(2) increased contractions in the 10-day group and diminished contractions in the other groups (the increased contractions were avoided by verapamil). These results indicate that E(2) controls α(1)-adrenergic receptor-mediated contractility through effects on L-type Ca(2+) channels in a way that depends on the timing in which the treatment with E(2) is initiated.

Copyright © 2012 S. Karger AG, Basel.
 
monsterbox

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Warning: If we agree with the above article, then we must accept the fact that high DHT levels literally change the personality. A 6-8 week cycle is not long enough to impact all of the relationships, job choices, hobbies, drug choices, habits, etc. One could be a quiet, sympathetic type chemistry, use high DHT compounds for a few weeks and exhibit the above changes. This individual will be able to return back to his "normal" self shortly after the "cycle". However, to the guy that's on HRT at 200+mg/week, blasting and cruising and tell everyone that he "feels great' has "high libido" "great male aggression" etc, keep in mind, this individual is on the unnaturally high level of DHT for a LONG time. And BELIEVE IT OR NOT, that individual, whether its 200mg or 2,000mg, is going to IDENTIFY with his brain chemistry. 6-8 weeks is a enough time to come back, but 4 years? 10 years? 20 years?

I hope that you see this point. That steroids take away OUR control of our own emotions and thoughts without us realizing it. The brain chemistry changes are REAL.

I do not know myself any longer. For me, 200mg of testosterone is one identity, 1000mg is another identity, 350mg tren is a third identity. PCT is a polar opposite identity. And once you are "in the game" you no longer will be able to return to the natural, nature given, brain chemistry which allows development of the true identity. Spending any considerable length of time at any exogenous input of DHT will change your sense of self but you will not realize it until you return

Now, I'm not so sure its such a problem. But, what becomes of this? What are the costs? What are the harms? Is life actually better on HRT? We think its better, but is it really?

For those who "cruise" or are on doctor prescribed HRT, the medical world looks at blood tests and #'s to determine your identity. Really, think about it. The doctor gives you 100mg, which equates to X amount of DHT, which equates to XYZ personality traits. He bumps you up to 200mg, how did that effect the brain chemistry?

The answer that I will always be searching for, "how much or how little testosterone makes me, ME???"

I WILL NEVER KNOW.
 
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Guys, I've been receiving a ton of private messages asking about HRT and hormone advice. To those of you who have messaged me, I will respond with time. Thanks and good luck.
 
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Thank you for your post.

The points I'm trying to make are no so much directed at the sense of inflated ego, but moreso at the subtle changes that many do not notice unless you deeply introspect. It is not my intention to imply that my personal steroid use has caused me to become a completely different person. Its subtle things that add up over time.


For example, on a gram of masteron and 2 grams of test, I lost two close friends in a car crash one summer, but shed not a single tear. With human range levels of DHT, I feel a much greater sense of sympathy for loved one's and loss, it would have been entirely different. I now immediately recognize a hardening in emotions from anything DHT, and the more DHT the less emotional / more machine like my personality becomes. These changes may not be very great between low T / moderate T, but with t-bol, dbol, tren, masteron, etc stacked at high doses....this is where things begin to change. This is the warning I want to show.

Not to get carried away

Its not so much about being cocky, or thinking you are better, etc. The goal here is demonstrating that no matter how much we think we are in control of our emotions / thoughts, Dihydrotestosterone most definitely can have a profound effect on one's emotional reactions.


I'm not sure if the MD is on this forum, but Dr. Marianco subscribes that the endocrine system IS the mind. If any part of it is altered, the mind (sense of self) is altered, even if its unnoticed.

Sure, your day-to-day life may not seem any different. You may get along fine at work, at home, with your family be it on-steroid, on super high doses, or low doses. That's great that you it does not negatively effect your physcology . But for some individuals the DHT has a profound effect (as seen in the research paper above).
 
bighulksmash

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For you guys that constantly run cycles and have families, how do you justify your use?. I mean it seems you guys have forgotten that what you are doing is illegal. So really you can be arrested at any time. I don't think AAS use is more important than family, but if you continue to take this risk, doesn't that say that you think AAS is more important? That you are willing to risk jail time and leave your family?

I'm not judging, just wondering about this because it's a pretty big risk especially if you have a family.
your right , 100%, to some it becomes an addiction . some people say they pct when they bridge or cruise to another cycle . for me it was the thrill , the feeling , the strength .... i love wat i do . i love my family and i love my life . thanks to all of you for the knowledge/inspiration you share/shared .God Bless America.
 
IronAddiction

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Gentlemen, thank you for being very real with your experiences through life and this thing we refer to as a "game." I really appreciate reading a very personal mindset when it comes to the psychological battle of knowing one's self with continued use/administration of anabolic androgens.

With that being said, welcome back monsterbox, it has definitely been a long while since you have been around.
 
Dma378

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^^^^^ not to discredit the OP. Great insightful thread. Well thought out posts as well.
 
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I am totally a different, more confident, more assertive, more successful, more driven person now than I used to be. I love this personality. I have not lost my compassion and tenderness for my wife and children. I am a humble friend. I am a good employee. I'm a tool and a douche in my own time, being in the gym and on forums.

The person I am today is far better and more respected by myself and others than the chubby, insecure, depressed person I was in my youth.

This lifestyle has had a profound effect on my success with my career, with my relationships with pretty much everybody.

No I'm not monitored by a doctor, but will be on TRT eventually. But I read a sh1t-ton and try to be educated on what I'm doing. Some of it is reckless, but not nearly as much as big-timers or even most of my friends with drinking. I live a controlled, timid life really.

I'll take this person I've created every day of the week. And the people around me would say the same. It's all about staying humble. Everywhere I go, it's acknowledged. All anyone wants to talk about is health, working out, diet. It's like they have to justify their lack of it to you. But I never bring it up. Try and find one selfie or post about fitness on my FB, you won't. It's not who I want the world to know me as. I do this for me, and I am reaping the benefits of confidence. Without arrogance, and humility.

Now you guys are whom I release my inner dickhead on.

Your welcome.
 
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Dma378

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For you guys that constantly run cycles and have families, how do you justify your use?. I mean it seems you guys have forgotten that what you are doing is illegal. So really you can be arrested at any time. I don't think AAS use is more important than family, but if you continue to take this risk, doesn't that say that you think AAS is more important? That you are willing to risk jail time and leave your family?

I'm not judging, just wondering about this because it's a pretty big risk especially if you have a family.
By this logic wouldn't one cycle qualify for being more important than your family? What's the difference between one and constantly?
Replace AAS with marihuana. Is it the same argument?
So people who smoke pot without their medical card just don't care about their family? Come on.
 
Rodja

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I am totally a different, more confident, more assertive, more successful, more driven person now than I used to be. I love this personality. I have not lost my compassion and tenderness for my wife and children. I am a humble friend. I am a good employee. I'm a tool and a douche in my own time, being in the gym and on forums.

The person I am today is far better and more respected by myself and others than the chubby, insecure, depressed person I was in my youth.

This lifestyle has had a profound effect on my success with my career, with my relationships with pretty much everybody.

No I'm not monitored by a doctor, but will be on TRT eventually. But I read a sh1t-ton and try to be educated on what I'm doing. Some of it is reckless, but not nearly as much as big-timers or even most of my friends with drinking. I live a controlled, timid life really.

I'll take this person I've created every day of the week. And the people around me would say the same. It's all about staying humble. Everywhere I go, it's acknowledged. All anyone wants to talk about is health, working out, diet. It's like they have to justify their lack of it to you. But I never bring it up. Try and find one selfie or post about fitness on my FB, you won't. It's not who I want the world to know me as. I do this for me, and I am reaping the benefits of confidence. Without arrogance, and humility.

Now you guys are whom I release my inner dickhead on.

Your welcome.
Out of curiosity, how long have you been on and is it more of a true TRT level or competitive use of AAS?
 
Dma378

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Out of curiosity, how long have you been on and is it more of a true TRT level or competitive use of AAS?
Almost a year. 2 blasts of higher doses, and moderate cruise doses between (250 ish). With 1 pct in there with a month break after that. Pointless, that's why I decided to stay on after last blast.

But no, not actual trt dosages. Still a supra physiological dose.
 
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Almost a year. 2 blasts of higher doses, and moderate cruise doses between (250 ish). With 1 pct in there with a month break after that. Pointless, that's why I decided to stay on after last blast.

But no, not actual trt dosages. Still a supra physiological dose.
I'm a tad over 3.5 years in and I can unequivocally say that it has changed me slowly throughout the years. The first year or so was fantastic, but I did notice that my mentally and perception started to change. It's a very difficult thing to keep your ego in check when you're pumping in exogenous hormones that inflate your sense of self.
 
Dma378

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I'm a tad over 3.5 years in and I can unequivocally say that it has changed me slowly throughout the years. The first year or so was fantastic, but I did notice that my mentally and perception started to change. It's a very difficult thing to keep your ego in check when you're pumping in exogenous hormones that inflate your sense of self.
This year was not the beginning of the AAS usage. I have a couple years under the belt for that, just has been a constant in that year.
An perhaps the next year or two will change. But I make a deliberate effort to stay grounded. Hopefully it sticks.
 
Rodja

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This year was not the beginning of the AAS usage. I have a couple years under the belt for that, just has been a constant in that year.
An perhaps the next year or two will change. But I make a deliberate effort to stay grounded. Hopefully it sticks.
Cycling off allows everything to return to normal including the mind. It's the constant B/C along with the inherent nature to push further and further that leads to the changes.
 
JeremyNG25

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I am totally a different, more confident, more assertive, more successful, more driven person now than I used to be. I love this personality. I have not lost my compassion and tenderness for my wife and children. I am a humble friend. I am a good employee. I'm a tool and a douche in my own time, being in the gym and on forums.

The person I am today is far better and more respected by myself and others than the chubby, insecure, depressed person I was in my youth.

This lifestyle has had a profound effect on my success with my career, with my relationships with pretty much everybody.

No I'm not monitored by a doctor, but will be on TRT eventually. But I read a sh1t-ton and try to be educated on what I'm doing. Some of it is reckless, but not nearly as much as big-timers or even most of my friends with drinking. I live a controlled, timid life really.

I'll take this person I've created every day of the week. And the people around me would say the same. It's all about staying humble. Everywhere I go, it's acknowledged. All anyone wants to talk about is health, working out, diet. It's like they have to justify their lack of it to you. But I never bring it up. Try and find one selfie or post about fitness on my FB, you won't. It's not who I want the world to know me as. I do this for me, and I am reaping the benefits of confidence. Without arrogance, and humility.

Now you guys are whom I release my inner dickhead on.

Your welcome.
You really attribute all of you're success in other areas of your life to a drug? Looks like your ego is in full swing. Dude these are steroids and you talk like they are some magic beans that changed everything about your life. Isn't that what I constantly hear preached on these boards? "Steroids aren't some magic pill" by your description I would say they are. What happened to "steroids don't do much?" Lol
 
Dma378

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You really attribute all of you're success in other areas of your life to a drug? Looks like your ego is in full swing. Dude these are steroids and you talk like they are some magic beans that changed everything about your life. Isn't that what I constantly hear preached on these boards? "Steroids aren't some magic pill" by your description I would say they are. What happened to "steroids don't do much?" Lol
Confidence and self-esteem changed my life.
 
jbryand101b

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So..... In s nutshell, what is the original post saying?

I tried to read it but got extremely bored, it was like trying to read the bible.
I want to, but just can't focus long enough.
 
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So..... In s nutshell, what is the original post saying?

I tried to read it but got extremely bored, it was like trying to read the bible.
I want to, but just can't focus long enough.
Cliffs: Guy smashed ridiculous amount of gear, believed it changed his personality. Came to realisation that it was all for nothing.
 
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Wanted to know your thoughts on this.
Not sure I have any real insight here, I only did 2 or 3 AS cycles 15-20 years ago and never let is consume my life. We all need to do what is right for us. I guess I am not a deep thinker
 
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You really attribute all of you're success in other areas of your life to a drug? Looks like your ego is in full swing. Dude these are steroids and you talk like they are some magic beans that changed everything about your life. Isn't that what I constantly hear preached on these boards? "Steroids aren't some magic pill" by your description I would say they are. What happened to "steroids don't do much?" Lol
You're talking about two completely different things when it comes to look and mentality.
 
Dma378

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And perhaps I would be a totally different monster if I ran a gram of Test and 700mg of Tren on blasts. Maybe I have only begun to scratch the surface on my potential Alpha.

Sarcasm...
 
NoAddedHmones

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And perhaps I would be a totally different monster if I ran a gram of Test and 700mg of Tren on blasts. Maybe I have only begun to scratch the surface on my potential Alpha.

Sarcasm...
I do question if the OP would have come to the same conclusion if he put in the same amount of time and effort minus the heavy gear usage. My guess is no.

Seen it time and time again (not to this extent obviously) where people get on silly amounts of gear blow up quick as and fall out of the spot light faster than Susan Boyle.
 
monsterbox

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Thanks for commenting guys.

I appreciate that you guys are taking the time to understand.

In a nutshell, the point is that DHT can affect ones desires, tendencies, ambitions, and risk taking behavior. While not outwardly apparent at moderate dosages, these idiosyncrasies can delude the mind if one is continually on the gear and ever increasing over the years. Lifestyles may change without ones perception changing.

The intention of this thread is to bring to light the real effects of DHT on the dopamine receptors, and how that may effect the ego directly.

This thread is not to suggest against steroids, or to discourage proper cycling.

Its merely an explanation for Why and How people come to the point of 3-5g a week ofgear (pro bodybuilders etc). Its bringing to light the real pospossibility and truth behind the addictive nature of AAS.

Thanks again.
 
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I've had the opposite experience with masteron in that it heightens emotions within me both good and bad.
 

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I always thought steroids seemed to enhance who u really are.. I know a few cool guys and when there hitting the aas hard there even cooler lol...
 
IronAddiction

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And perhaps I would be a totally different monster if I ran a gram of Test and 700mg of Tren on blasts. Maybe I have only begun to scratch the surface on my potential Alpha.

Sarcasm...
+10 for alpha sarcasm, this cracked me up
 
bighulksmash

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Thanks for commenting guys.

I appreciate that you guys are taking the time to understand.

In a nutshell, the point is that DHT can affect ones desires, tendencies, ambitions, and risk taking behavior. While not outwardly apparent at moderate dosages, these idiosyncrasies can delude the mind if one is continually on the gear and ever increasing over the years. Lifestyles may change without ones perception changing.

The intention of this thread is to bring to light the real effects of DHT on the dopamine receptors, and how that may effect the ego directly.

This thread is not to suggest against steroids, or to discourage proper cycling.

Its merely an explanation for Why and How people come to the point of 3-5g a week ofgear (pro bodybuilders etc). Its bringing to light the real pospossibility and truth behind the addictive nature of AAS.

Thanks again.
No sir , thank you . its things like this that may save people who cant see what they are doing to themselves . so thanks for sharing fauk these bums if they cant handle the truth . once again thanks for the wisdom .
 
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So one person's experience and insight makes it the truth?

I guess so, people still think Peter's crazy revelation dream is how the world will end....
 
Toren

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So one person's experience and insight makes it the truth?

I guess so, people still think Peter's crazy revelation dream is how the world will end....
Nope. It makes it his truth. That truth might be applicable to others but there are so many variables in how people end up that nothing in this life is certain. I can tell you from witnessing it first hand that a lifetime of depression will also change a person's brain way more then most would like to admit. It actually changes who you are as a person as your perspective on the world changes. For sure leading a depressed lifestyle for many years will also alter hormones within the body in a negative way.

I mentioned it earlier and stand by the assertion that if you lose yourself in whatever it is you are doing, without regard for others and the world around you, it can be a devastating thing.

Some people enter the lifestyle with families and priorities set to the point where the lifestyle is merely an addition or a compliment to the life they already have. Unfortunately there are just as many (usually youth) who enter the lifestyle having no idea who or what they are and how they fit into society. They want to be something so bad and the androgens and the lifestyle can lead them astray. If you are lost to begin with, how do you expect to find yourself in a lifestyle that you are so desperately trying to lose yourself within (whether you know it or not)?

Don't discount the fact that high levels of estrogen and many other bodily hormones can negatively affect a male sometimes just as much as DHT. At the end of the day we all have to be self-effacing enough to see who we are, how our actions affect others and what it is we plan to do with the knowledge we attain from seeing oursleves as others might. Some people have addictive personalities and some are just lost souls hoping to grab a hold of something or anything that can make them feel whole. It's the balance we strive for that will make us better people.

There's no doubt that running grams of hormones a week will alter your brain and how you see the world. I don't even see how anybody can argue that. How and why people get lost in whatever they do is the more important thing to discuss, not the gear itself.
 
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we do not forget , we do not forgive . expect us. #trollOut
 
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