Experienced Vet Heavy Doses Speaking Out

[jimjones87]

Man this post is really thought provoking.. kinda gets me thinking.

Lets say you had a choice between these two options.. what would you pick?

(1) single with not many friends - working 60 hours a week and pulling in $100K/year, having 6 pack abs, a nice house, and driving a BMW..

or

(2) in a relationship, tons of friends - working a normal job pulling maybe $35K, being out of shape and weak, renting a crappy apartment, and no car.

Honestly, I think both options have their pros/cons.

For me personally though, I'll take #1 all day. Sure, you make a lot of sacrifices to go down the path of #1, but it would be worth it for me.

To me, life is just a game.. three games that come to mind are (1) chasing tail (2) chasing money or (3) chasing a better body. You gotta choose your game wisely, as achieving results in all 3 at once is damn year impossible.

 

[bighulksmash]

option1

 

[Cjg]

Chase money and muscle!! And tail will chase u

 

[Shasow]

I don't believe one has to make great sacrificing and that those sacrifices have negative consequences or side effects. As humans we prioritise very well both consciously and subconsciously thus you are choosing to prioritise gym, work, money. Why? Well what motivates ALL human behaviour? Happiness. So if you unpeel the onion you'll find your not actually sacrificing anything you're just doing what makes you most happy. You even said this in your own post but didn't see the contradiction. The only people that say you're "missing out" are those that have different priorities. Society is mostly made up of sheep, including loved ones, thats life.

You can still have a social life and a girl, etc its just not as often as those that prioritise those things highly.

Regarding the OP more gear doesn't equal more gains it equals more side effects.

 

[jbryand101b]

I choose option c,
married, no friends, work 40hrs/week doing what I love, house, car, above average body, easy living

I sleep, work, workout, eat, fcuk, repeat

 

[bighulksmash]

I choose option c,
married, no friends, work 40hrs/week doing what I love, house, car, above average body, easy living

I sleep, work, workout, eat, fcuk, repeat

thats wat i have minus the house ....

 

[Dma378]

I choose option c,
married, no friends, work 40hrs/week doing what I love, house, car, above average body, easy living

I sleep, work, workout, eat, fcuk, repeat

Replace "no" friends, with a "few" and this is my life. And I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[clown007]

Replace "no" friends, with a "few" and this is my life. And I wouldn't have it any other way.

Me too. And its just the way I like it.

Something that hit me while reading through all this was that personality/emotions what have you are a real sliding scale. Where you are "naturally" may not be normal either. Someone with anxiety/ depression takes medication to reach a state of "normalcy."
From reading, testosterone can have similar effects to people that suffer from anxiety/depression issues; so the incredible feeling for them could be "normal" for someone else.
I think anything that has a definitive and noticeable effect (be it PEDs, prescribed meds, recreational drugs) all have direct and visible effects on people, and indirect and less noticeable effects as well.
I think for some people, the mood/emotional/personality change may be a positive one; for others maybe not. The same could be said for any exogenous drug/supplement people take.

Just my 2 cents

 

[celc5]

Op, this is by far the most useful post I've seen on this forum since I've recently returned. There's a pickup community where the most educated and experienced emphasize what they call "inner game" as the core to being successful socially and with women. I believe that your intent is to increase awareness of the inner game component of bodybuilding... where the pros and cons debate about steroid use is appropriate for this forum in general, it's missing the point of your post. Well done leading this community.

 

[Rodja]

I think some of you guys are mixing up sacrifices (which is not the message here) and inadvertent collateral damage. We all realize and understand that a chasing a dream will require sacrifices. However, and here's something that I've never read, it's extremely difficult to not let your ego get out of control and, for some, they can almost cause a second adolescence to where you're literally struggling with your own identity because of the power these drugs can have on the mind.

 

[bighulksmash]

Just gotta say, if you put your happiness above and before anyone else's that's not a "sacrifice" it's selfishness.

i did and it worked for me . your right it is selfish and i appologized to my wife n kids .

 

[Toren]

This thread may have turned out slightly different than the OP had first hoped but then again maybe not. I don't think anybody in here has missed the boat on what the OP was trying to say, as we all interpret and see things in a highly individualized way. Despite there being a somewhat specific directive about DHT and it's effects on the brain and how we rationalize things while under control of heavy amount of this hormone, this thread has for sure provoked some inner dialogue for more than a few. I'd like to assume that the OP feels good about that, as his story will mean different things to different people.

I do understand the argument though. These hormones may do things to us in such a way that we don't see the changes happening right before our own eyes. Even beyond that, we may not be able to recognize how far we have gone because our mindset has been adulterated by copious amount of exogenous hormones, specifically DHT. These are definitely powerful componds! Because of the power and the almost invisible (to ourselves) progression of things, we may not have the capacity to properly cope with the results of our actions in a way that would make sense to most; in a way that would probably make sense to the user under different circumstances, namely non-supraphysiological amounts of hormones.

While I can absolutely see and understand that argument, I truly believe that the ability to handle extravagant scenarios such as this, is wholly dependent on genetics, upbringing and where the individual is in life before entering into such activities. I could very well make the argument that the majority of the type pf people who allow themselves to get lost in 3-5 grams of hormones a week were far more susceptible to these things in the first place. Don't discredit the notion that for some, the need to build themselves up (physically) to a point where nothing else matters is nothing but a masking agent. The propensity for some to do this is great, while for others, it is non-existent. Beyond that, we all need to ask ourselves why we do the things we do in life. 'The introspection might be incredibly enlightening'.

 

[JXiiXViii]

Really nice post OP. While I haven't yet used drugs aside from a few PH cycles, your post still causes some thought and reflection.

Another user actually sent me the link to this thread, and he and I have been having an interesting conversation about it through PMs.

One thing I brought up with him that I wanted to put here is this:

Is it 100% fair to say that the DHT caused you (or anyone) to become this way, or is it possible that it just intensified your core personality?

Going along with that, is it possible you didn't like the person you became because you truly didn't like it, or because society tells us we need to act and behave a certain way to fit in and you weren't fitting that mold anymore?

I know it's tough to answer, but I'm just trying to put a different perspective out there.

While I definitely don't think we should cause harm to others in order to further our own agendas, is it really so wrong to be selfish to an extent if it means we become happier and accomplish our goals in the process? Why is someone else's happiness more important than our own?

Not only do I not see anything wrong with being and having that alpha persona, I find it refreshing when I actually see it. These days, let's be honest, most dudes are total sissies. You could walk up to 99% of guys on the street and kiss their girlfriend right in front of them, and most of them will walk away, not wanting to be "confrontational."

Guys are soft nowadays and it's getting worse. I think a big part of this is that they are being sociologically and psychologically castrated from a young age. We're told to act a certain way, think a certain way, adhere to authority, do this but don't do that, and so on.

As a result, the alpha is looked at as a "bad thing" and the sissy persona is rewarded, at least by society, whose opinion doesn't matter.

So what I'm getting at is, do you truly feel you became a bad person from the drugs, or do you think you became a bad person because you weren't adhering to our socially constructed ideologies?

From what I read, it sounds like you were having an awesome time and definitely bettered yourself in the process. You were smashing goals and living life on a high note.

Not to sound cheesy, but we only get one life, so why not make the best of it, which it sounds like you did for some time?

 

[thebigt]

steroids are drugs...it has been my experience that any drug which affects how you feel can have profound effects on personality if used for long term.

 

[bobsaget2191]

that was great stuff man real deep and eye opening thanks bro

 

[Anvil72]

(Thanks for your post) The intro pointed out we are not the same person on cycle, even at 200mg. I wonder though... If my anatomy/genetics were "designed" for an 800 T level and constant exposures to chemicals and outside factors makes it a 250... This too makes my psyche "not mine" Ever been T-Low and E-Dominant? That sucks at work, home, everywhere. I get your point though, if your T is artificially beyond the realm of a gifted Pro Linebacker at college age, you may not be yourself.
I found I think of my wife more than other women when my T is between 1000 and 1600. At 300 that was less the case for some reason. Hell, I don't even look at other women sexually at these levels now that I think about it. Other people seem to like me more as well, as I am no longer so antisocial. I have never done Tren, I hear it has it's own special set of rules.
On cycle, I shut off the TV and talk with her, I seem to enjoy it more. Again, I did like your post.

 

[Shasow]

Just gotta say, if you put your happiness above and before anyone else's that's not a "sacrifice" it's selfishness.

Huh? Are you saying one shouldn't put their happiness above others and doing so is somehow wrong/selfish?

 

[Dma378]

Huh? Are you saying one shouldn't put their happiness above others and doing so is somehow wrong/selfish?

In my experience, you can never make anyone else happy if you are not happy with yourself.

 

[bighulksmash]

In my experience, you can never make anyone else happy if you are not happy with yourself.

good point , rings true ...

 

[Dma378]

So in turn, making yourself happy is a gift unto others around you.

Within reason. Obviously if that's all you care about, go on about your business selfishly, and don't cater to other's needs...then yes, that's selfish. But it all starts with you.

 

[monsterbox]

The identity fears insignificance. Perceive the significance of insignificance and transcendence has begun.

 

[Shasow]

In my experience, you can never make anyone else happy if you are not happy with yourself.

True. It's also each individuals responsibility to make themselves happy and not rely on others to do it for them nor should others look to you as their source of happiness. Both are a recipe for failure.

 

[celc5]

The identity fears insignificance. Perceive the significance of insignificance and transcendence has begun.

And I think when we solidify identity, we can be dedicated bodybuilders as part of who we are... without it completely defining us or being our only source of esteem/confidence

 

[monsterbox]

Consider that if we recognize the identity is only a manifestation our thoughts, we can find identification to all things. Preventing the identity from becoming solidified is key. And of course, its impossible to 100% master this, but its something to strive for. Being able to identify with anything, at any place, any time, and find amusement and happiness.

Many times in Western Society, we hear that we need to "believe in ourselves", "find ourselves" "trust ourselves" "follow our dreams" etc. These are all synonymous expressions to solidifying one's identity. Rather, if we were to look inwards, instead of outwards, and recognize commonness of being human, then we recognize the insignificance of the self (which strives for significance in some way or another). It goes both ways, almost full circle, into showing that the identity is not separate yet wishes to be separate, recognizing the insignificance of significance and the significance of insignificance.

And certainly in agreement with the suggestion, "we can be dedicated bodybuilders as part of who are without it completely defining us or being our only source of esteem/confidence" This is certainly more mindful than "you can become a monster if you set your mind to it"

The trickery is that the self is always telling us that we will be happy "if" we achieve this, become this, do that. The self sets the bar for happiness. Because the self wants to be most important. It always wants to prove its significance/existence. Ever achieved a goal that was worked on for many hrs/yrs/etc and then found that the reward was not really all it was cracked up to be? Ever thought, something like, "if I could only bench press 225x10 I'd be so happy?" Stop telling yourself that (your - self, two words, the identity to be mindful of :tongue2. Because now the self is going to need 275x10. Do it just because. If we can relinquish the need to identify with the identity's set of standards and necessities, then we can find happiness outside such pursuits. Do not misconstrue as to not have goals or standards, its just an illustration to show how the being can become a slave the self.

Ask the question, who is the one doing the thinking about the self? Mindfulness has begun.




And moreso, after reading this post once, re-read it once more, and this time pay attention to how the self attempts to take its own memories, experiences, and beliefs and interpret this post in its own way. The one paying attention to how the self is identifying to this post is the mindfulness. (the recognizing of the the insignificance of the significance and likewise the significance of the insignificance)



Many of your selves will think i'm nuts but thats okay

 

[TShoot]

Great post! Very well written. Thanks for sharing your perspective. It could not be easy to open up to a bunch of strangers about your epiphany.

Last night, I came across a person I have seen in the gym for the past 20+ years. I see him all of the time. Probably 5'10" around 240lbs strong as an ox. He was chatting up a couple of girls next to me and trashing almost every other decent size guy in the gym. He could "destroy" most of them. His exact terminology.

I thought, for your level of achievement, time devoted to the iron sport, you are an a$$ that I would never want to be around. What a false sense of self.

Thanks again for sharing.