EvoMuse Presents: Epitome™
- Thread starter dsade
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chedapalooza
Legend
That sounds like it would be perfect for my belly
MidwestBeast
Legend
And just to be clear -- during her time using Epitome and AMMO she was also crushing it in the gym 
So we're not saying you can get THAT much out of it alone (though to be honest, without any other changes it would still likely yield some good results). But if you have everything else in order, it is phenomenal.
And regarding Epitome and appetite -- I can tell you that when I first started it, my appetite went nuts. It was rough. I was REALLY wanting to eat everything and that's not ideal when dieting/cutting. After some time (a couple weeks, I believe -- it's been a while), that changed and now it really helps to crush the cravings. And that can be very helpful for me because all day (when I'm at work/when I'm busy), I'm good. But in the evenings is when I get snacky. So when I'm able to lift first thing in the morning, I can tailor the doses to get dose 2 right before leaving work and that keeps me in check at home. I'll eat dinner and really not much else. When I switch things up, I can tell (worked out after work yesterday so both doses were in the AM/early afternoon and when I got home I was good for a bit, ate my chicken and then crushed a bag of Doritos -- regular sized -- and some cookies that my wife brought home from school).
So we're not saying you can get THAT much out of it alone (though to be honest, without any other changes it would still likely yield some good results). But if you have everything else in order, it is phenomenal.And regarding Epitome and appetite -- I can tell you that when I first started it, my appetite went nuts. It was rough. I was REALLY wanting to eat everything and that's not ideal when dieting/cutting. After some time (a couple weeks, I believe -- it's been a while), that changed and now it really helps to crush the cravings. And that can be very helpful for me because all day (when I'm at work/when I'm busy), I'm good. But in the evenings is when I get snacky. So when I'm able to lift first thing in the morning, I can tailor the doses to get dose 2 right before leaving work and that keeps me in check at home. I'll eat dinner and really not much else. When I switch things up, I can tell (worked out after work yesterday so both doses were in the AM/early afternoon and when I got home I was good for a bit, ate my chicken and then crushed a bag of Doritos -- regular sized -- and some cookies that my wife brought home from school).
Kaprice
Well-known member
Two things I've read about fat loss...
1) If you have too big a calorie deficit, you'll damage your metabolism and make it super hard to maintain weight loss.
2) When you have a lot of excess fat, you can get away with a higher deficit without causing metabolism damage than if you're already pretty low fat.
I weigh 260 w/ appx 48% BF.
So, three questions...
1) is that true?
2) Does taking Epitome and Brite counter act that problem?
3) On Epitome/Brite, should I go for as low a calorie deficit as I can manage? Or, am I better off with a more traditional deficit? (That is, what the online calculators usually tell you is needed to lose 2 pounds a week.)
1) If you have too big a calorie deficit, you'll damage your metabolism and make it super hard to maintain weight loss.
2) When you have a lot of excess fat, you can get away with a higher deficit without causing metabolism damage than if you're already pretty low fat.
I weigh 260 w/ appx 48% BF.
So, three questions...
1) is that true?
2) Does taking Epitome and Brite counter act that problem?
3) On Epitome/Brite, should I go for as low a calorie deficit as I can manage? Or, am I better off with a more traditional deficit? (That is, what the online calculators usually tell you is needed to lose 2 pounds a week.)
MidwestBeast
Legend
Epitome + BRITE will help accelerate the progress
If it were me, just from my own experience, I would try to create a bigger deficit via exercise and not from cutting food. I added stair sprints and briskly walking a lap on the track between my sets of lifting a couple months ago and it's greatly helped.
And I've found that if you keep the cals in check where they need to be and manipulate up and down within reasons, you can get away with more (just my personal experience). So I'm not a fan of a whole "cheat DAY" type thing, but I'll burn ~3500 calories on days I lift and ~4,000 on days I play basketball and ~2,600 on days I don't do anything. So I adjust cals (and macros) up and down on different days and like keeping them lower on my off and basketball days, but will go with like 4500 cals on a lifting day once a week.
If it were me, just from my own experience, I would try to create a bigger deficit via exercise and not from cutting food. I added stair sprints and briskly walking a lap on the track between my sets of lifting a couple months ago and it's greatly helped.
And I've found that if you keep the cals in check where they need to be and manipulate up and down within reasons, you can get away with more (just my personal experience). So I'm not a fan of a whole "cheat DAY" type thing, but I'll burn ~3500 calories on days I lift and ~4,000 on days I play basketball and ~2,600 on days I don't do anything. So I adjust cals (and macros) up and down on different days and like keeping them lower on my off and basketball days, but will go with like 4500 cals on a lifting day once a week.
Kaprice
Well-known member
And just to be clear -- during her time using Epitome and AMMO she was also crushing it in the gym
And regarding Epitome and appetite -- I can tell you that when I first started it, my appetite went nuts. It was rough. I was REALLY wanting to eat everything and that's not ideal when dieting/cutting. After some time (a couple weeks, I believe -- it's been a while), that changed and now it really helps to crush the cravings. And that can be very helpful for me because all day (when I'm at work/when I'm busy), I'm good. But in the evenings is when I get snacky.
Well, I'm going to be heading back to the gym, though I'm not sure what the definition of "crushing it" is. For now, I'll be doing circuit weight machines for 30 minutes, 1 minute breaks between sets. Trying to hit muscle failure in each set of 60 seconds. And, walking 2 miles a day 5 days a week.
Night time is when I really struggle with feeling snacky. I can IF until noon without feeling the slightest twinge of cravings.
I can have a fairly small, healthy lunch and feel totally fine until dinner time.
Around 8:00, I start to get real cravings. If I stay up past 11:00 (too often an occurrence), I lose all self-control and will snack on whatever I can find.
Kaprice
Well-known member
So, if Epitome reduces my appetite to the point where I'm perfectly comfortable at, say, 1200 calories, but the "calculators" say I should be targeting 1900 for sane weight loss, I should eat more even if I'm not hungry (due to Epitome)?
Kaprice
Well-known member
I'm thinking of doing Progress Pics and maybe weekly progress stats.
Since I'll be relying a lot on EvoMuse products, would it be appropriate to post those on a new thread in the EvoMuse sub-forum?
Or, would it be more appropriate in the Weight Loss thread?
Or, nowhere on AnabolicMinds?
Since I'll be relying a lot on EvoMuse products, would it be appropriate to post those on a new thread in the EvoMuse sub-forum?
Or, would it be more appropriate in the Weight Loss thread?
Or, nowhere on AnabolicMinds?
cubsfan815
Well-known member
There is a supplement log section which is perfect for that.
Kaprice
Well-known member
Got it. Thanks!
Kaprice
Well-known member
OK, so I just want to make sure I'm understanding...
If my goal is rapid fat loss and less concerned about building muscle, it's not just okay but advisable to take epitome just prior to a workout?
BUT, that's only for a quick burst and should not be continued for more than, what, 2 weeks?
After that, keep the workout 3 to 4 hours away from any Epitome dose?
Do I have that right?
EMPIREMIND
Well-known member
Kaprice i think a little more emphasis on the weight will yield the best results. If muscle is not a major concern then stick to compounds and less isolation. If training three days a week a great regimen would be squats, deadlifts, bent over rows, bench press, and maybe an over head press. Also push ups and pull ups are great too. The biggest metabolic stimulators ive personally found are deadlifts, squats and hiit cardio. Add those in to accelerate your results brother.
xhrr
Well-known member
I would that's an insane caloric restriction and is going to be actually counterproductive. Try and hit 1900 and see how your body responds. After that adjust calories accordingly but never drop to 1200.
Edit: I forgot this will only be for a short duration but still I wouldn't drop quite that low. Since this is more of a short term burst I think you could drop it below 1900 but still 1200 is awfully low and not something that is sustainable long term.
EMPIREMIND
Well-known member
Not sure of your plan but 1200 is very low for a man. I would not do that. Your more than likely able to lose weight at double that as long as your diet consists of the right foods, you train hard and get rest. And supplementation... With evomuse products your all set.
Kaprice
Well-known member
From online calculators, it appears my TDEE (with light exercise -- at the time I ran the calcs, all I was doing is brisk walking 2 miles 3 to 5 days a week) is 2298 calories. Though I've just started back at the gym with lifting 3 days a week.
25% of TDEE is 1723 calories.
Not sure why so many of you are at 3,000+ calories. I guess you're younger, more muscular, and a beast with the weights?
I was finding I was hitting around 1700 calories a day without feeling deprived and without crazy cravings. Epitome is supposed to suppress appetite, so the reason for my question was because if my appetite is suppressed, I'd go lower than 1700 without much effort and I wanted to see if that was a good or bad thing.
So, it sounds like it's a bad thing and I should use the "suppression" to just help me make better choices -- towards hq protein and fats and away from carbs but keep my calories at about 25% of TDEE.
Does that sound right to you?
OTOH, maybe I need to redo the calculations now that I'm actually lifting, again?
25% of TDEE is 1723 calories.
Not sure why so many of you are at 3,000+ calories. I guess you're younger, more muscular, and a beast with the weights?
I was finding I was hitting around 1700 calories a day without feeling deprived and without crazy cravings. Epitome is supposed to suppress appetite, so the reason for my question was because if my appetite is suppressed, I'd go lower than 1700 without much effort and I wanted to see if that was a good or bad thing.
So, it sounds like it's a bad thing and I should use the "suppression" to just help me make better choices -- towards hq protein and fats and away from carbs but keep my calories at about 25% of TDEE.
Does that sound right to you?
OTOH, maybe I need to redo the calculations now that I'm actually lifting, again?
Kaprice
Well-known member
Brite and Epitome arrived Saturday afternoon. I took one dose of each on Saturday. Full doses on Sunday, and I'm halfway through the doses, today.
No noticeable changes in temperature, yet, for me. From reading the forums, it appears it can take a few days.
Sadly, my appetite actually increased -- though another variable is I'm lifting after months away from doing so.
Also, I'm feeling rather tired, today -- though a variable to that is that I've also just started to get up earlier than normal so I can hit the gym. Same # of hours of sleep, but bed earlier and up earlier than I'm used to.
But, I'm not discouraged at all. I know it can take time for these things to kick in and for my body to adjust.
Other observations: A little diarrhea on Saturday and today. Constipation all day yesterday.
No noticeable changes in temperature, yet, for me. From reading the forums, it appears it can take a few days.
Sadly, my appetite actually increased -- though another variable is I'm lifting after months away from doing so.
Also, I'm feeling rather tired, today -- though a variable to that is that I've also just started to get up earlier than normal so I can hit the gym. Same # of hours of sleep, but bed earlier and up earlier than I'm used to.
But, I'm not discouraged at all. I know it can take time for these things to kick in and for my body to adjust.
Other observations: A little diarrhea on Saturday and today. Constipation all day yesterday.
jmaplewood
Member
I had some stomach issues for a few days when I started brite and again when starting epitome. Things evened out after a few days for each. Hang in there. Also in my experience the more obsessive I get about macros and numbers the harder it is to lose. I still track everything, but it took a while to not stress if I'm off a little bit and I feel much better overall. It's a long journey. Just keep at it.
Kaprice
Well-known member
Thanks. Yeah, I'm not obsessive about macros. I'm currently tracking as best I can as a way of educating myself about what I'm eating and how it impacts my progress. Until I started tracking, I had no idea how much certain foods were causing me to go way over a sane number of calories.
Tracking is helping me plan my food choices more effectively.
Tracking is helping me plan my food choices more effectively.
MidwestBeast
Legend
Awesome
When I first started it, it was clear my leptin levels were trash because I was ravenous and was like "wtf, Matt! I thought this was supposed to help me! *eating a box of cookies and then the actual box it came in so as to not lose a single crumb*"
lol
But over time, it did the opposite and really helps keep my appetite in check. I love it.
The vascularity (noticed first in the forearms) came on pretty quickly and was very cool to me as someone who never really had any vascularity at all; even when I was really lean.
ma70
Well-known member
Awesome
When I first started it, it was clear my leptin levels were trash because I was ravenous and was like "wtf, Matt! I thought this was supposed to help me! *eating a box of cookies and then the actual box it came in so as to not lose a single crumb*"
lol
But over time, it did the opposite and really helps keep my appetite in check. I love it.
The vascularity (noticed first in the forearms) came on pretty quickly and was very cool to me as someone who never really had any vascularity at all; even when I was really lean.
Epitome was weird with me. It killed my ability to eat a lot, but always made me crave things.
MidwestBeast
Legend
ma70
Well-known member
I'd have cravings for all the junk food I always wanted...but when I'd start eating, I'd be full instantly. Epitome is very strange to me. I want to try it again sometime though.
MidwestBeast
Legend
I'd get that on a hit and miss sort of basis. Never regularly (outside of that initial week or 2 when I was ravenous). But it's happened on occasion since; can't remember the last time to be honest (but I also don't really need Epitome to trigger that because my natural state is to be craving sweets LOL).
ma70
Well-known member
I mean, my natural state is to be craving garbage or food in general, but man, Epitome made me crazy SOMETIMES. I was using it at 3 caps for 2 months.
MidwestBeast
Legend
Interesting. I've never gone above the 2 caps/day.
Woody
Well-known member
Cannibalism is so fetch
MidwestBeast
Legend
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Ray Donovan
Member
This was probably already answered and I swear I've read most of the evomuse forum but are there any downsides to taking epitome when 12-16% bf, besides not getting optimum results compared to lower/higher bf ranges?
beerandon
New member
I may be a weird responder here, but I initially look it when my body fat was low low, and I had some weird effects. After a diet break, I took it when I was significantly higher in BF, and it worked like a charm, did exactly what dsade write about in the write up.
But that's my experience, ymmv. But I'm smoothly sailing back down to where I was before, much quicker than normal and without as many hiccups along the way!
MidwestBeast
Legend
Shouldn't be any real downside.
I've basically been using Epitome non-stop and have been at a variety of bf%'s along that path. I like the increased vascularity and feel like it's definitely helped keep my hunger in check at all levels, so I keep using it.
MidwestBeast
Legend
Shouldn't be any real downside.
I've basically been using Epitome non-stop and have been at a variety of bf%'s along that path. I like the increased vascularity and feel like it's definitely helped keep my hunger in check at all levels, so I keep using it.
Dirty Duke
New member
Are there any benefits/negatives to running Epitome during a post cut reverse diet, into lean bulk? I've over estimated how much I'd need, so I have an additional bottle which will probably expire by the time I decide to cut again.
JDybya
Well-known member
My hunger usually goes through the roof on my reverse diet...could be helpful if it's repressive on your appetite. Personally I would see that as the biggest benefit. Though it may help you get even leaner while upping cals as well...
Though I should add that I'm one of the unlucky few, who epitome makes ravenous at lower bf levels...learned the hard way
Dirty Duke
New member
Good points, makes sense. I haven't hit single digits whilst running Epitome yet, I'm still hovering around 11%, so will be interesting to see how it affects my hunger levels once I hit singles.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
As you mentioned, they both work differently. A straight comparison would be impossible. Epitome is pretty much sold out right now but you can still find it at some retailers. BRITE should be restocked this week.
paul56778
Well-known member
How is shipping over the pond to UK, when both Epitome and Brite are available i would like to order from your shopify store, normally, usually buy from nutriverse.
also do you feel Epitome and Brite would work to negate some negative metabolic effects of a modified psmf diet, also when used in combination with DCP when it arrives and Baiba, with OL Ignit3, BLR Follidrone 2, BLR Exotherm, and BLR Viron, and Defuse and EBF Recompadrol for carb up refeeds.
also do you feel Epitome and Brite would work to negate some negative metabolic effects of a modified psmf diet, also when used in combination with DCP when it arrives and Baiba, with OL Ignit3, BLR Follidrone 2, BLR Exotherm, and BLR Viron, and Defuse and EBF Recompadrol for carb up refeeds.
Dirty Duke
New member
Matt, what are your thoughts on my question from above:
Are there any benefits/negatives to running Epitome during a post cut reverse diet, into lean bulk? I've over estimated how much I'd need, so I have an additional bottle which will probably expire by the time I decide to cut again.
MidwestBeast
Legend
I basically have not stopped using Epitome since it was released.
I stopped it briefly after maybe 2 bottles and instantly noticed, so I jumped back on.
So I would say it has a place being used anywhere and theoretically (this is where Matt could probably say better than I) would work well in the reverse diet stage at keeping leptin levels in check and not having your hunger/appetite shift quite as much (e.g. making it more controllable).
Wimsicle
Well-known member
Man oh man... I am sitting around 12% BF.. I WANT TO EAT EVERYTHING. Are my leptin levels just totally messed up? lol.
I follow a ketogenic diet (in a cut), and while typically having no issues with hunger... have been wild since I started.
I have ate some carbs recently though, which could simply be the problem lol. Does the hunger level out at low body fat?
I follow a ketogenic diet (in a cut), and while typically having no issues with hunger... have been wild since I started.
I have ate some carbs recently though, which could simply be the problem lol. Does the hunger level out at low body fat?
Dirty Duke
New member
Apparently in some people (especially when you reach lower bodyfat levels), the desired hunger suppression effects are reversed and it can actually cause an increase in hunger. I'm in the same boat as you, currently on keto and sitting around 11% BF, even on MK-677 too, fortunately hunger is generally well suppressed and blunted. Are you having a weekly refeed?
jmaplewood
Member
How long have you been on epitome? First 1-2 weeks I was hungry as hell and now it's suppressing my hunger pretty well. I can still eat, but I get full faster and don't really get hungry like I used to
Dirty Duke
New member
I'm well into my second bottle now, so approaching 8 weeks.
keithbishop
New member
Epitome crushes my appetite.
Definite staple. Starting my wife on it soon.
Definite staple. Starting my wife on it soon.
Wimsicle
Well-known member
I'm only on like day 9 of epitome. My hunger is getting a little better. had two solid keto days and now things are looking normal. I was smashing some cereal at night (about 60-100 carbs worth) for 2-3 nights lol. Garuntee that was my problem.