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EvoMuse Presents: Epitome™

Just got my bottle today! I've dieted down to 10%, maybe under (I can see veins in my abs now) and for the past two weeks I have had totally whacky cravings after my normal intake for any food, ever. Even if I don't like it, I want it, and now. No resisting or distraction will stop all food from entering my mouth when these urges hit.

I have every single classic sign of low leptin. Plateau'd, starving all of the time, lethargic, etc.

I'll keep you guys informed! It seems like I am in the lean category for this to work, and I can't get any hungrier than I already am. haha!

Where's the beer toast emojii
 
beerandon said:
Just got my bottle today! I've dieted down to 10%, maybe under (I can see veins in my abs now) and for the past two weeks I have had totally whacky cravings after my normal intake for any food, ever. Even if I don't like it, I want it, and now. No resisting or distraction will stop all food from entering my mouth when these urges hit.

I have every single classic sign of low leptin. Plateau'd, starving all of the time, lethargic, etc.

I'll keep you guys informed! It seems like I am in the lean category for this to work, and I can't get any hungrier than I already am. haha!

Where's the beer toast emojii
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Very interested in lean folks input. I haven't stalked yet, or had the crazy cravings....but the ab veins are there and I know the cravings will come as I reverse diet....have a bottle of Epitome on hand...just waiting...
 
I can tell you 2 things that I have experienced beyond a shadow of doubt:
1. Totally insane fullness from meals that wouldn't do the trick before using this.
2. I feel like a furnace after eating. It's unlike any heat I've experienced before from any supplement.

I also feel exhausted all of the time, like, "I ran a marathon this morning "kind of tired. I don't know why.
 
beerandon said:
I can tell you 2 things that I have experienced beyond a shadow of doubt:
1. Totally insane fullness from meals that wouldn't do the trick before using this.
2. I feel like a furnace after eating. It's unlike any heat I've experienced before from any supplement.

I also feel exhausted all of the time, like, "I ran a marathon this morning "kind of tired. I don't know why.
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Excellent on the fullness and heat!!!

Sounds like the lethargy was already there? Is it worse now?

Notice any difference in vascularity, water retention, or weight in the first few days?

What's your dose timing like relative to meals?
 
Lathargy- It's much worse. But I was also freezing and starving all of the time before I started, so it joins the rest of life in being a trade off.

Vascularity is definitely up, and so is a pump in the gym. Water retention isn't a huge issue with me unless I overdosed on food the night before. However, I do notice my legs are a little swollen? It's weird. It could also be a perma-pump because I can still see the muscles fibers in my thighs, I don't know. Usually when I get post binge bloat my thighs look like balloons, but this isn't like that. They are also a little weak and Shakey feeling.

Then again, my body has been known to do weird things.

Take it as you will, it's only been 5 days in. But I know placebo from real effects, that I am confident of.
 
Appreciate the feedback. I'm obviously no where near that lean, but the vascularity and warmth are the 2 very noticeable effects I've always had. I love it.
 
little update here:

I had a refeed tuesday night to see the after effects of Epitome when over consuming cals the day before. Definitely crushed my appetite the next day, no doubt about it. I notice that after I take it in the morning, I do get very hungry shortly after dosing. I'd day about an hour or so. However, like I mentioned, I also get full fast. Ate at noon wasn't hungry again until around 8pm. THAT is unusual for me.

Seems my brain is heavily "Neutralized" concerning food. I get hungry, sure, but I don't zero in one one thing anymore. I don't have the urge to consume everything in sight and eat for a day straight like I used to.

Last thing, the swelling legs I mentioned the other day is definitely the Epitome. I found that if I dose the second pill too close to the first, it happens in short order after dosing. I can't imagine what this would be. I tried for two days dosing one at 9am, and one at 6pm, no issues at all. as soon as I scooted the second dose to 3, BAM crazy water retention in my face and legs, same today when I dosed sooner than I should have because I got very hungry out of nowhere.

any thoughts what this could be?
 
Awesome news on the appetite suppression.

As far as the retention, no clue. Definitely not something I've experienced.
dsade -- any thoughts?
 
My stack just arrived will begin using Epitome tomorrow and hold off on Ammo until I'm done with Alphamax looking forward to seeing how this treats me as I'm in the higher body fat percentage at around the mid 20s. So since tomorrow I beging working day shifts and workout in the afternoon the optimal times to take it would be first thing in the morning and then several hours later but not close to workout correct?
 
raul87 said:
My stack just arrived will begin using Epitome tomorrow and hold off on Ammo until I'm done with Alphamax looking forward to seeing how this treats me as I'm in the higher body fat percentage at around the mid 20s. So since tomorrow I beging working day shifts and workout in the afternoon the optimal times to take it would be first thing in the morning and then several hours later but not close to workout correct?
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I personally shoot for 3.5 hours away from workout.

What time do you wake up, workout, and go to bed?
 
MidwestBeast said:
I personally shoot for 3.5 hours away from workout.

What time do you wake up, workout, and go to bed?
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I wake up at 5:30am, workout at 6:30pm, and try to be in bed by 10:30pm. I'm more worried about my night schedule actually I wake up at around 1pm, workout at 2pm, and go to bed at 6am so not your typical routine
 
raul87 said:
I wake up at 5:30am, workout at 6:30pm, and try to be in bed by 10:30pm. I'm more worried about my night schedule actually I wake up at around 1pm, workout at 2pm, and go to bed at 6am so not your typical routine
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In scenario one I'd dose at 9:30 and 2:30.

Scenario two -- 8 PM and 1 AM.


Obviously some wiggle room, but ballpark that's what I would do.
 
Meal
Timing doesn't matter.

Never seen any fluid retention with this stack - quite the opposite really.
 
raul87 said:
Meal timing matter?
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Matt is correct -- doesn't matter.

That said, I usually get my Epitome in 30 min pre-food if I can. I find the vascularity that much better and it also usually helps me keep from being as ravenous lol. But that's just me.
 
MidwestBeast said:
Matt is correct -- doesn't matter.

That said, I usually get my Epitome in 30 min pre-food if I can. I find the vascularity that much better and it also usually helps me keep from being as ravenous lol. But that's just me.
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Is there any reason not to take this first thing in the morning? On days when I work night shift I tend to have split sleeps, and it ends up the only way I can do two doses and keep the time both two hours away from bedtime and 3+ hours away from exercise is to take first thing in the morning.
 
max silver said:
Is there any reason not to take this first thing in the morning? On days when I work night shift I tend to have split sleeps, and it ends up the only way I can do two doses and keep the time both two hours away from bedtime and 3+ hours away from exercise is to take first thing in the morning.
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I initially was wanting to dose first thing upon rising and I recalled Matt advising me not to.

However, IIRC, that was more due to spacing out for maximum benefits with other products (e.g. if you were to use Metabolic Rebirth, you would take that first thing AM and pre-bed, so you'd do Epitome in between those times to have a wider impact on leptin levels).

So I believe there's nothing wrong with taking it first thing.
 
Awesome, thanks for the info. It's good to know I haven't likely been wasting the epitome taking it first thing in the morning. I was wondering whether it could be recommended mid morning instead of after a long fast so it wouldn't interfere with protein synthesis first thing in the morning after a long fast.
 
Assuming diet and training is on point, what sort of fat loss progress would you expect to see from adding Epitome to an Ammo/Ignit3 stack??

I overlooked Epitome last month, but after re-reading the info I think it may help me!
 
he-man said:
Assuming diet and training is on point, what sort of fat loss progress would you expect to see from adding Epitome to an Ammo/Ignit3 stack??

I overlooked Epitome last month, but after re-reading the info I think it may help me!
Click to expand...
It depends on your body fat level. The higher the fat, the more dramatic the results.

I see between 8-20lbs in 30 days loss in the people that have provided feedback.
 
dsade said:
It depends on your body fat level. The higher the fat, the more dramatic the results.

I see between 8-20lbs in 30 days loss in the people that have provided feedback.
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Hey dsade, thanks for responding...I'm hovering around the 20% mark. I've been running Ammo with a couple other things for the last 2weeks and still seeing a steady 2-3lbs each week. With only 2wks before my honeymoon I'm wanting to blitz at much as possible!!

How would Epitome and Ammo work on a High protein, low carbs/fats approach?
 
he-man said:
Hey dsade, thanks for responding...I'm hovering around the 20% mark. I've been running Ammo with a couple other things for the last 2weeks and still seeing a steady 2-3lbs each week. With only 2wks before my honeymoon I'm wanting to blitz at much as possible!!

How would Epitome and Ammo work on a High protein, low carbs/fats approach?
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Epitome and ammo both work independently of diet. 2 weeks is plenty of time to drop another 10lbs.
If fat loss is your primary concern, then take a dose of Epitome pre workout.

Also consider grabbing some Dry-Uretix to run the last few days to dry out your physique. It's free with purchase at Shopify.
 
Ah gutted that international shipping will take too long, or I'd definitely order using your shopiify store!
I'm over in Vegas next month, would I be able to get orders sent to the hotel?!

Epitome/Ammo both ok to take pre fasted workout? And any point taking bcaa intra? Thanks
 
he-man said:
Ah gutted that international shipping will take too long, or I'd definitely order using your shopiify store!
I'm over in Vegas next month, would I be able to get orders sent to the hotel?!

Epitome/Ammo both ok to take pre fasted workout? And any point taking bcaa intra? Thanks
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You can add the BCAAs intra for a fasted workout. Take the epitome before as well for a potent amplification of the fat burning aspect of the workout.

You don't want to do this chronically as it will negatively affect protein synthesis and recovery, but you have a short term fat loss goal here.
 
dsade said:
You can add the BCAAs intra for a fasted workout. Take the epitome before as well for a potent amplification of the fat burning aspect of the workout.

You don't want to do this chronically as it will negatively affect protein synthesis and recovery, but you have a short term fat loss goal here.
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Awesome news!! Think that's me decided to order on Monday (start it tues)!
Will dose first thing with my Ammo and ignit3 pre-fasted workout around 7am, and will take the 2nd dose around 4pm?

If I can get away with bringing it to Vegas in my suitcase I'll dose mid morning/mid afternoon with no other supps with me :)
 
he-man said:
How long before/after food should I wait before dosing Epitome?
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It doesn't matter.

That said, I try to aim for at least 30 min prior (just my preference based on how dose timing worked first time I used it).

Also, I've found it tends to have acute appetite suppression for me, so if that affects you the same way, keep that in mind with upcoming meals (e.g. if you want to watch your intake, pop one an hour before you'll be surrounded by food lol; but if you're heading to the buffet with the intent of maxing out, maybe dose it after or further out).
 
There's no dedicated ammo thread apparently?? So just wanted to note that im finding it difficult to wake up in the morning like I keep hitting snooze w zero recollection or fcks given haha. But when I DO get up I feel very refreshed and awake (since starting ammo)
 
chedapalooza said:
There's no dedicated ammo thread apparently??
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After some digging, it appears this was the first:

Invalid Link Removed

and the one with the most posts/views.

But you're right -- it hasn't been used in a while lol.
 
chedapalooza said:
Funny that yesterday I had a ton of energy and today it's all I can do to stay awake... Cortisol fluctuations? Idfk
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FWIW same thing happens here with any cortisol supps. Zzzzzzzz
 
chedapalooza said:
There's no dedicated ammo thread apparently?? So just wanted to note that im finding it difficult to wake up in the morning like I keep hitting snooze w zero recollection or fcks given haha. But when I DO get up I feel very refreshed and awake (since starting ammo)
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Reducing cortisol causes this because a cortisol spike is what causes you to "wake up" (and with lowered cortisol, this won't happen). This was put in very vague terms, but that's basically what happens if you dose cortisol control pre-bed.
 
ma70 said:
Reducing cortisol causes this because a cortisol spike is what causes you to "wake up" (and with lowered cortisol, this won't happen). This was put in very vague terms, but that's basically what happens if you dose cortisol control pre-bed.
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Meh alright
 
cubsfan815 said:
I just started Ammo last week. Been late to work 3 times already lol.
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I dropped my Ammo pre bed dose last night, and I did seem to get up much quicker this morning than I have done the last week or so!

Took Epitome pre workout this morning as dsade suggested short term that's fine...struggling with flu/sinuses though :/ not sure if it's down to that dose? Think I'll stick to ignit3/Ammo pre and epitome between breakfast and lunch.
 
I took a cap of ammo prior to my tattoo appointment and the second I hit the table I fell asleep and slept thru the first 45 minutes of my session
 
Ammo knocks me out like a light (edit...I have stupid bad insomnia, but it "relaxes" me. I can't wait to have AdrenoSurge back to add that in. That's some solid sleep.

If you're overly sensitive to too low a cortisol level, you can dose ammo once a day in the morning. Absolutely Abliderated is also a good choice, since the cortisol suppression is localized to the area you apply to.
 
chedapalooza said:
Very much looking forward to rebirth. I've decided cheat meals and carb refeeds simply don't work for me for a multitude of reasons. Epitome however gives me really big appetite and I'm still riding out this recomp / reverse diet for another couple months... Would rebirth be a good addition for me at 10-11% BF?
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That was posted several months ago, but I'm confused. Epitome gives you a big appetite? I thought it's supposed to do the opposite? I thought it helps you eat less by reducing your appetite? What am I missing?
 
Kaprice said:
That was posted several months ago, but I'm confused. Epitome gives you a big appetite? I thought it's supposed to do the opposite? I thought it helps you eat less by reducing your appetite? What am I missing?
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Leptin is a complicated thing. At higher bodyfat levels, leptin levels are sky high but your receptors are resistant to its signalling - triggering constant cravings and a screwed up metabolism.

Epitome normalizes Leptin levels, bringing them up when they are too low (super lean) and down when they are too high (obese) and increasing receptor sensitivity. In some very lean people, though, it seems to not be quite as effective and triggers cravings.

We haven't really experimented with higher dosing yet for those people.
 
dsade said:
It depends on your body fat level. The higher the fat, the more dramatic the results.

I see between 8-20lbs in 30 days loss in the people that have provided feedback.
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That would be awesome. I'm really looking forward to implementing Epitome and Brite. I need to lose about 40 pounds in order to look like most people's BEFORE picture! That would put me at 220, a weight I haven't seen for 25 years.
 
Kaprice said:
That would be awesome. I'm really looking forward to implementing Epitome and Brite. I need to lose about 40 pounds in order to look like most people's BEFORE picture! That would put me at 220, a weight I haven't seen for 25 years.
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Our record right now is from a customer's wife using Epitome and AMMO....63 lbs in 90 days. I think I posted the pictures, but if not let me find them.
 
Invalid Link Removed
 
dsade said:
Our record right now is from a customer's wife using Epitome and AMMO....63 lbs in 90 days. I think I posted the pictures, but if not let me find them.
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Wow! You think I have a good chance at dramatic results over 90 days with Epitome and Brite?

I'm paying attention to my calories and macros, though not obsessively. I've started 2 mile daily brisk walks and am about to start lifting again -- though I'm not sure I'll be working for super heavy lifts. I seem to have become prone to muscle pulls. Scale says I'm at about 38% BF, but who knows if these bathroom scales are accurate at all relating to BF?
 
Is that really a 63 pound difference in the first picture vs the last?
 
Kaprice said:
Is that really a 63 pound difference in the first picture vs the last?
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Yep, according to the weigh in charts for the work contest she was in.
 
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