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DS Craze Lawsuit and FDA Action

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starrk said:
I don't doubt it, but the customers they cater to obviously don't possess the glorious analytical minds that these various online bodybuilding forums do.

You won't see your average herpa-derp *** customer purchasing a product and then doing anything more than glancing at the label while the salesman regales them with tales of glorious pumps and limitless vascularity.

lol, didn't realize gee en see was censored here.



And that. Don't ban me bro.
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Well.

I see the hate is strong.
 
Angelbolic said:
Interesting you say this, because even if all of the phenethylamines in Craze are correctly labeled, some analytical labs can't even find phenethylamines in dendrobium.

Besides, does anyone really believe they're using an extract?
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For my purposes, yes. I believe the labeling is consistent with the product it contains.

If I didn't, I wouldn't buy it.

With regard to whether it's a scientific fact? Well, I'm sure the outcome of the tests that are sure to come will determine that.

In terms of other people believing, well, that's pretty irrelevant to me. Not to say I don't care what others have to say, just that for my purposes, their word is good.

Does that make me naive? Perhaps. But I feel that I'm a good judge of character for the most part and having known Matt and his reps for some time now, I think they are worthy of my trust. I don't hand that out easily, either.
 
Angelbolic said:
Interesting you say this, because even if all of the phenethylamines in Craze are correctly labeled, some analytical labs can't even find phenethylamines in dendrobium. (Invalid Link Removed )

Besides, does anyone really believe they're using an extract?
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i dont really understand the last two paragraphs of that story
 
This is all very entertaining.

(1) The banter between DS reps and others is noteworthy given the pendency of the lawsuit-- strange how DS' attorneys haven't advised them to stop posting publically about matters relevant to the lawsuit. I suspect that many of these posts will be used during DS' depositions.

(2) Who's behind this lawsuit and what's the connection between Newport Trial Group (plaintiffs' counsel) and DS' competitors? Kalman Magyar is affililated with plaintiffs' law firm and, according to Mr. Magyar's bio, he "spent four years as Assistant General Counsel for one of the world’s leading nutritional supplement companies in the Toronto, Canada area, managing complex international litigation and regulatory matters, assisting in handling the company’s general commercial issues, and developing litigation preparedness strategies." Anyone ever heard of Magyar before?

Carry on.
 
tufnutz said:
This is all very entertaining.

(1) The banter between DS reps and others is noteworthy given the pendency of the lawsuit-- strange how DS' attorneys haven't advised them to stop posting publically about matters relevant to the lawsuit. I suspect that many of these posts will be used during DS' depositions.

(2) Who's behind this lawsuit and what's the connection between Newport Trial Group (plaintiffs' counsel) and DS' competitors? Kalman Magyar is affililated with plaintiffs' law firm and, according to Mr. Magyar's bio, he "spent four years as Assistant General Counsel for one of the world’s leading nutritional supplement companies in the Toronto, Canada area, managing complex international litigation and regulatory matters, assisting in handling the company’s general commercial issues, and developing litigation preparedness strategies." Anyone ever heard of Magyar before?

Carry on.
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Nothing that has been posted is truly deposition worthy...

It's all small-time banter...
 
tufnutz said:
This is all very entertaining.

(1) The banter between DS reps and others is noteworthy given the pendency of the lawsuit-- strange how DS' attorneys haven't advised them to stop posting publically about matters relevant to the lawsuit. I suspect that many of these posts will be used during DS' depositions.

(2) Who's behind this lawsuit and what's the connection between Newport Trial Group (plaintiffs' counsel) and DS' competitors? Kalman Magyar is affililated with plaintiffs' law firm and, according to Mr. Magyar's bio, he "spent four years as Assistant General Counsel for one of the world’s leading nutritional supplement companies in the Toronto, Canada area, managing complex international litigation and regulatory matters, assisting in handling the company’s general commercial issues, and developing litigation preparedness strategies." Anyone ever heard of Magyar before?

Carry on.
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[h=3]Assistant General Counsel[/h][h=4]Invalid Link Removed[/h]
Privately Held; 201-500 employees; Consumer Goods industry
April 2007 – April 2011 (4 years 1 month)
 
baldymcgee said:
[h=3]Assistant General Counsel[/h][h=4]Invalid Link Removed[/h]
Privately Held; 201-500 employees; Consumer Goods industry
April 2007 - April 2011 (4 years 1 month)
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Iovate is MuscleTech
 
D3Baseball said:
Iovate is MuscleTech
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This is correct and also responsible for cytogenix and muscle asylum too mind. Anyway i loooove muscletech! i love their adverts especially the ones in M&F where every other page is covered in them! i love the price of their products too, totally worth every penny! can't believe jay cutler and phil heath only used MT supps to get big for the mr.O's, i'll surely be as big as them in noooooo time
 
Muscletech speaking **** about another supp company some on should sue them cuase their pixi dust suger with some creatine
 
some great info in here.. thanks
 
Young JD said:
Muscletech speaking **** about another supp company some on should sue them cuase their pixi dust suger with some creatine
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This guy was on the MT legal team, left MT, and is now working independently. I wouldn't consider him a voice for MuscleTech. He's just an industry legal expert
 
Young JD said:
Muscletech speaking **** about another supp company some on should sue them cuase their pixi dust suger with some creatine
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Lol, but seriously that crap sells. It's not Muscletech's fault if they bring crap products to the market and they sell like hot cakes. Blame the dumbasses who buy it in droves.
 
ShadowJack said:
Certainly you had no obligation to show that every ingredient on the label was detected during your testing since you clearly had no idea what ingredients were listed on the Craze label until I posted them on this thread 2 days ago.

I was simply asking you what ingredients (from the list that I posted) would you expect to see during your testing at the conditions you set? You already mentioned that Creatine would not elute but that caffeine should have. What I am asking is what other ingredients (from the list that I posted) would you have expected to see?
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It occured to me that I used toluene to extract the actives from the craze after i made it alkaline. caffeine may not have dissolved into toluene, while the other phenethylamines would

I have a new jar sent to me direct from an online store. I am gonna extract this one with ethyl acetate or methylene chloride which should get the caffeine. I dont plan on releasing my findings from this test to the public though, its more so i can be sure. I may share what i find privately with others though.
 
This died down on the other site when everyone started backing neuron. Interdasting continuation here.
 
KGB1980 said:
Stuff made me feel cracked out for hours after my workout
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Same here. I've taken 10-15 different pre-workouts and they all have roughly the same or similar blends, in varying amounts. This was completely unlike any other and you almost knew it was spiked.

Same way I felt with slim xtreme. If it seems too good to be true then it usually is.
 
JezPudzian said:
This is correct and also responsible for cytogenix and muscle asylum too mind. Anyway i loooove muscletech! i love their adverts especially the ones in M&F where every other page is covered in them! i love the price of their products too, totally worth every penny! can't believe jay cutler and phil heath only used MT supps to get big for the mr.O's, i'll surely be as big as them in noooooo time
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And 6Star, and a couple others too.
 
i have some and am tempted to take it out of curiousity. but i dont react well to amphetamine type stimulants and if that is what this stuff is like it will ruin my day
 
Patrick Arnold said:
i have some and am tempted to take it out of curiousity. but i dont react well to amphetamine type stimulants and if that is what this stuff is like it will ruin my day
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Take it!

For what it's worth- one scoop for me was underwhelming. There was enhanced focus but nothing major. Two scoops was a very strong focus, I didn't realise it until someone commented on how fast I was talking and how dilated my pupils were. By the end of the tub two scoops didn't have the same feeling to it.
 
bdcc said:
Take it!

For what it's worth- one scoop for me was underwhelming. There was enhanced focus but nothing major. Two scoops was a very strong focus, I didn't realise it until someone commented on how fast I was talking and how dilated my pupils were. By the end of the tub two scoops didn't have the same feeling to it.
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maybe i will take it before i go out drinking some night. that way if it hits me the wrong way it wont matter cuz i can just drink faster and counteract it
 
I think you are onto something. If that advice isn't on the label then DS are missing out.
 
tinshot said:
you mean besides the ephedrine and 1,3 DMAA that you take
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If you're calling him out then I hope you realize they are 3 different things. Just because something is a strong stim doesn't mean they all act the same. That's like saying cocaine, caffeine are the same because they are stimulants too.
 
jamesm11 said:
If you're calling him out then I hope you realize they are 3 different things. Just because something is a strong stim doesn't mean they all act the same. That's like saying cocaine, caffeine are the same because they are stimulants too.
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It's a fair example.
 
tinshot said:
you mean besides the ephedrine and 1,3 DMAA that you take
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lol. oh man, i know the difference between ephedrine dmaa and amphetamine type drugs. believe me, they are quite different in the way i react

i wasnt trying to take a shot at craze, i was being honest about the amphetamine class of stims
 
Patrick Arnold said:
i have some and am tempted to take it out of curiousity. but i dont react well to amphetamine type stimulants and if that is what this stuff is like it will ruin my day
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If it makes you feel any better, amphetamine type stims tend to make me irritable and anxious. I get neither from craze. It may very well be the best stimulant feel I've ever experienced. Give it a shot. I'm curious as to what you think.
 
quigs said:
If it makes you feel any better, amphetamine type stims tend to make me irritable and anxious. I get neither from craze. It may very well be the best stimulant feel I've ever experienced. Give it a shot. I'm curious as to what you think.
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It gave me a euphoric feeling. Similar to SX when it was spiked. Could be nothing but it felt too good haha.
 
jamesm11 said:
It gave me a euphoric feeling. Similar to SX when it was spiked. Could be nothing but it felt too good haha.
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i took the active that was in SX. albeit in a much higher dose. and it was a bad experience. i made a very poor sexually related decision
 
quigs said:
If it makes you feel any better, amphetamine type stims tend to make me irritable and anxious. I get neither from craze. It may very well be the best stimulant feel I've ever experienced. Give it a shot. I'm curious as to what you think.
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I am the same way with amphetamine stims and Craze is different. Its more of a focus than a overbearing energy for me. I also think this is the best preworkout I have ever used.
 
Young JD said:
Oh snap pat did a dude while off his head lol just joking pa
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I was gonna make that joke. Their slogan "worlds strongest fat burner and sexual preference modifier". Though it was probably just an awful woman.
 
southpaw23 said:
:/ We've already gone back and forth on this issue. I'd respond in detail, but I get the impression that I'd just be spinning my wheels. As I've previously stated, have at it.
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at 54 pages in, I just don't care to venture back to dig that up. :D

I can only assume you have not tried amphetamines with that statement. That is why I asked. Go stack a spoonful of Ephedrine or DMAA and you wont get near the same feeling of a few bumps of amphetamines (Yes I am being facetious). They are very different animals.
 
DAdams91982 said:
at 54 pages in, I just don't care to venture back to dig that up. :D

I can only assume you have not tried amphetamines with that statement. That is why I asked. Go stack a spoonful of Ephedrine or DMAA and you wont get near the same feeling of a few bumps of amphetamines (Yes I am being facetious). They are very different animals.
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The closest thing to drugs that I've ever tried was Sam's Choice bottled water from Walmart...stuff is delish. :)
 
Meth cannot be compared to any other stimulant. Its the only stuff I know that will literally keep you away for days on end.


There is a reason they give medical grade amphetamines to pilots and special forces.
 
Tmac29 said:
Meth cannot be compared to any other stimulant. Its the only stuff I know that will literally keep you away for days on end.


There is a reason they give medical grade amphetamines to pilots and special forces.
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I was close to having my primary doctor prescribe me Desoxyn for my ADD/ADHD I have severe ADD but he looked it up and said hello no! Looking back at it I guess I am glad he did because it contains 5mgs Methamphetamine Hydrochloride. I wonder if there is success with this. I've given up using Meth for many reasons. I'm fortunate to have my health, my teeth, my muscle and be able to sleep! I just hate that mindset though.. knowing it's the only substance that might give me a pep if not just calm me down or make me want to masterbate watching pornography hahahaha oh lord too much
 
Trank406 said:
I was close to having my primary doctor prescribe me Desoxyn for my ADD/ADHD I have severe ADD but he looked it up and said hello no! Looking back at it I guess I am glad he did because it contains 5mgs Methamphetamine Hydrochloride. I wonder if there is success with this. I've given up using Meth for many reasons. I'm fortunate to have my health, my teeth, my muscle and be able to sleep! I just hate that mindset though.. knowing it's the only substance that might give me a pep if not just calm me down or make me want to masterbate watching pornography hahahaha oh lord too much
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u will lose your soul on that stuff

(not that i believe in souls, its metaphor)
 
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