DS Craze Lawsuit and FDA Action

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I'd love to find out the name of the competing company, who took it upon themselves to test this product, because it's obviously very successful (I love it and so do many others). Whenever company A ranks low as it relates to innovation, they opt to test other products. How about taking that time and dedicating it to research and development, and improving your own line? I'd never spend another dime on any of their products, and I'd recommend the same to my friends as well. Competing companies don't test competitor products in the name of safety, they test them to thin the herd and further their own brand.
 
T-Bone said:
I knew this would happen from the start. Saw this coming months ago!
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Why? Because it didn't work for you? You hate a lot of supps, if that's the case and you were the standard (no offense), we'd be left with ginko biloba tablets. :/
 
southpaw23 said:
Why? Because it didn't work for you? You hate a lot of supps, if that's the case and you were the standard (no offense), we'd be left with ginko biloba tablets. :/
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Yeah there are a lot of supplements I don't like but there are a lot I do enjoy also. I just meant I saw it coming because of the all the reported strange/out of the ordinary feelings feelings people had on it. It has happened countless times before with other supplements and after a while of watching things like this you start to recognize the patterns.
 
T-Bone said:
Yeah there are a lot of supplements I don't like but there are a lot I do enjoy also. I just meant I saw it coming because of the all the reported strange/out of the ordinary feelings feelings people had on it. It has happened countless times before with other supplements and after a while of watching things like this you start to recognize the patterns.
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Those reports were in the minority, and how about the novel approach of..."if something doesn't work for you DON'T BUY IT!" No need for knee jerk reactions, like stating something must be illegal, simply because you didn't enjoy it. All that does is draw unwarranted attention to something you don't like, which eventually results in limiting choices for others.
 
southpaw23 said:
Those reports were in the minority, and how about the novel approach of..."if something doesn't work for you DON'T BUY IT!" No need for knee jerk reactions, like stating something must be illegal, simply because you didn't enjoy it. All that does is draw unwarranted attention to something you don't like, which eventually results in limiting choices for others.
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I never said anything about it being illegal. I only stated my opinion on the product after trying a sample. Love all of DS other products. Triazole is one of my favorite Supplements. Best in its category.
 
What is the latest on this? I simply love this stuff and stocked up just in case. The focus for working out and for work is incredible!
 
T-Bone said:
I never said anything about it being illegal. I only stated my opinion on the product after trying a sample. Love all of DS other products. Triazole is one of my favorite Supplements. Best in its category.
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It was meant as a general statement. I read a lot of comments being thrown around, that "alluded" to the fact, that something must be "different" about Craze based on how it makes you feel. Craze is a HOMERUN type product. I can see why some companies want it taken off the market. I'd just love to find out which company/companies are behind this.
 
Love hearing that I am not the only one who has used it to be more productive outside of just training. I tend to do things opposite of you to make sure I get my training complete knowing Im going to still have a ton of energy to do my "chores".

Mission1 said:
Did one scoop of craze at 1 o'clock today. Cut my grass, clean my shed and just got done training my back. I love this stuff. I could really care less about the pump.
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southpaw23 said:
I'd love to find out the name of the competing company, who took it upon themselves to test this product, because it's obviously very successful (I love it and so do many others). Whenever company A ranks low as it relates to innovation, they opt to test other products. How about taking that time and dedicating it to research and development, and improving your own line? I'd never spend another dime on any of their products, and I'd recommend the same to my friends as well. Competing companies don't test competitor products in the name of safety, they test them to thin the herd and further their own brand.
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I'd imagine companies test a ton of competitor's products. Testing =/= screwing the competing company unless, of course, the competing company is doing something illegal. In that case, wouldn't the testing be a positive? The reason another company might test Craze is to see whether they have been out-innovated ("why didn't we discover Dendrobex?") or if something fishy is going on.

Sometimes testing the other company's products (like finding out amounts in prop blends) can be important research in and of itself ;)
 
D3Baseball said:
I'd imagine companies test a ton of competitor's products. Testing =/= screwing the competing company unless, of course, the competing company is doing something illegal. In that case, wouldn't the testing be a positive? The reason another company might test Craze is to see whether they have been out-innovated ("why didn't we discover Dendrobex?") or if something fishy is going on.

Sometimes testing the other company's products (like finding out amounts in prop blends) can be important research in and of itself ;)
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Or more likely, because company A's competing product sucks the big Lebowski and has low sales, so they want to thin the herd by getting rid of the elephant in the room, in this case Craze. But again, this will backfire, if and when we find just who is behind this.
 
AutoKal47 said:
No i get it, seems odd that the raw material don't get checked before going into
such big production, and other things like how the manufacturers continue to stay in business
once they get busted doing something like this? .
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First of all, when someone in the US buys a material from china they are supposed to test the stuff. But the question is "what do you test for"? Lets say its an herbal product that is standardized for content of compound X. You then have the stuff tested to see how much compound X is in there. Perhaps you get it tested for microbial count and heavy metals as well. But thats it. You dont send it away and ask a lab to "test for any of a million things that someone may have spiked the stuff with". This is why it is so easy for a company in the US to get duped

And your second question regarding raw material manufactures getting busted (i assume you are talking about raw material manufacturers) is a good one. But remember these manufacturers are in china so they rarely get busted. They are outside of the jurisdiction of US law. Occasionally though the US FDA will cooperate with chinese authorities and shut down rogue suppliers in china but that is rare. So essentially these suppliers keep getting away with it
 
southpaw23 said:
I'd love to find out the name of the competing company, who took it upon themselves to test this product, because it's obviously very successful (I love it and so do many others). Whenever company A ranks low as it relates to innovation, they opt to test other products. How about taking that time and dedicating it to research and development, and improving your own line? I'd never spend another dime on any of their products, and I'd recommend the same to my friends as well. Competing companies don't test competitor products in the name of safety, they test them to thin the herd and further their own brand.
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sorry but thats a bunch of BS. I test competitors products all the time and it does not take away from my dedication to R&D and innovation

I can name you dozens of respectable industries where companies make it a practice to periodically test the products of their competition. It is a normal practice and I would venture to say that a company that does not do this is doing itself a disservice

After all, this is a competitive industry.
And competition is good
 
D3Baseball said:
I'd imagine companies test a ton of competitor's products. Testing =/= screwing the competing company unless, of course, the competing company is doing something illegal. In that case, wouldn't the testing be a positive? The reason another company might test Craze is to see whether they have been out-innovated ("why didn't we discover Dendrobex?") or if something fishy is going on.

Sometimes testing the other company's products (like finding out amounts in prop blends) can be important research in and of itself ;)
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Put yourself in the shoes of a company that strives to do everything right. That company knows there are many other companies out there that are ripping people off and taking business away from them. That company is in a position where just doing the right thing is not enough. They have to enlighten the consumers of the fact that their product is better then the crap they are buying now.

This is true in ANY industry. It appalls me that people think that testing competitors products is a negative.
 
southpaw23 said:
Or more likely, because company A's competing product sucks the big Lebowski and has low sales, so they want to thin the herd by getting rid of the elephant in the room, in this case Craze. But again, this will backfire, if and when we find just who is behind this.
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I dont follow you. If the product they test is legit then how can testing it hurt anyone?

I think you are upset about people that make up testing results or report them in highly misleading ways. You arent, or shouldnt be, upset at the concept of testing in general
 
Patrick Arnold said:
sorry but thats a bunch of BS. I test competitors products all the time and it does not take away from my dedication to R&D and innovation

I can name you dozens of respectable industries where companies make it a practice to periodically test the products of their competition. It is a normal practice and I would venture to say that a company that does not do this is doing itself a disservice

After all, this is a competitive industry.
And competition is good
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Competition is great via innovation, not by limiting consumer choices. If Craze is taking away sales, then there is a very reasonable solution...make something better.
 
southpaw23 said:
Competition is great via innovation, not by limiting consumer choices. If Craze is taking away sales, then there is a very reasonable solution...make something better.
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I dont really follow you. But I will try

Do you think its wrong for a company to out another company that is breaking the rules because it limits customer choices?
 
Patrick Arnold said:
I dont really follow you. But I will try

Do you think its wrong for a company to out another company that is breaking the rules because it limits customer choices?
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Not at all, in fact I agree with you in that regard. But I do take issue with competing companies conjuring up rumors and innuendo, simply to create the illusion that Craze might somehow be "different." Maybe it's different because they do a hell of job with respect to innovation. Nothing has surfaced yet, other than a money grab lawsuit. You yourself tested it and can't conclusively say one way or the other that it contains something illegal. It should be left at that. What inevitably ends up happening is that a narrative gets created and just kind of stays out there, all based on some frivolous lawsuit. I'm just voicing my opinion because I happen to think Craze is in a league of its own.
 
southpaw23 said:
Not at all, in fact I agree with you in that regard. But I do take issue with competing companies conjuring up rumors and innuendo, simply to create the illusion that Craze might somehow be "different." Maybe it's different because they do a hell of job with respect to innovation. Nothing has surfaced yet, other than a money grab lawsuit. You yourself tested it and can't conclusively say one way or the other that it contains something illegal. It should be left at that. What inevitably ends up happening is that a narrative gets created and just kind of stays out there, all based on some frivolous lawsuit. I'm just voicing my opinion because I happen to think Craze is in a league of its own.
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well you are making sense now but your original statement was blasting testing in general. Testing is good, lying about testing is not good
 
Patrick Arnold said:
sorry but thats a bunch of BS. I test competitors products all the time and it does not take away from my dedication to R&D and innovation

I can name you dozens of respectable industries where companies make it a practice to periodically test the products of their competition. It is a normal practice and I would venture to say that a company that does not do this is doing itself a disservice

After all, this is a competitive industry.
And competition is good
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^^^ the king of innovation

^^^ the king of mass spec
 
Patrick Arnold said:
First of all, when someone in the US buys a material from china they are supposed to test the stuff. But the question is "what do you test for"? Lets say its an herbal product that is standardized for content of compound X. You then have the stuff tested to see how much compound X is in there. Perhaps you get it tested for microbial count and heavy metals as well. But thats it. You dont send it away and ask a lab to "test for any of a million things that someone may have spiked the stuff with". This is why it is so easy for a company in the US to get duped

And your second question regarding raw material manufactures getting busted (i assume you are talking about raw material manufacturers) is a good one. But remember these manufacturers are in china so they rarely get busted. They are outside of the jurisdiction of US law. Occasionally though the US FDA will cooperate with chinese authorities and shut down rogue suppliers in china but that is rare. So essentially these suppliers keep getting away with it
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I figured something like this, thanks for explaining :)
 
Out of curiosity roughly how long until these things come to fruition/we can hear DS side? How long did the USPlabs suit take?
 
T-Bone said:
Yes you are correct on that. I should have been more descriptive. What I felt was more of a psychotropic effect, not something you want to feel when your working out.
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i do not like the feeling of adderall type stimulation at all. it harkens back to years ago when i used to abuse those type of drugs. i get very paranoid and sexual and just plain freaky. no thanks. i am fine with caffeine, ephedrine, and geranamine is fine too
 
Once I've seen that I can't unsee it and its haunting my dreams!
 
D3Baseball said:
Still in progress.

He has beaten BSN multiple times and gotten customer refund payouts and even a newspaper ad apologizing for advertising Cheaters Relief in a misleading way
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USP won their first one, and the second one has been thrown out if I remember correctly.
 
D3Baseball said:
Still in progress.

He has beaten BSN multiple times and gotten customer refund payouts and even a newspaper ad apologizing for advertising Cheaters Relief in a misleading way
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Doesn't matter his past record.

The cases with BSN were much more straight forward.

USPLabs didnt settle the first case for a reason, they're setting a precedent that they won't just settle with anyone who brings a claim..
 
T-Bone said:
Yes you are correct on that. I should have been more descriptive. What I felt was more of a psychotropic effect, not something you want to feel when your working out.
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Nor the intense anxiety afterwards when at work surrounded by colleagues!
 
Yeah, I haven't posted anything... I just been reading for years... But... I've tried it all... I loved craze for sure it's awesome.. But I stopped due to one odd thing...
haha yes it's an awesome product but no one can deny its not different. The most hilarious thing I read is everyone is completely against drugs and how they are for losers.. Yet they want to stock up on things that are potentially being banned for illegal ingredients?
I lift... Been lifting for 9 years heavy... I eat healthy, don't smoke, I play bball, football, work hard, and yes drink hard once a week and do elicit activities.. but am still in pretty dam perfect shape as far as girls think... but seriously I love craze but it can't be good for us... none of this stuff is 'good' for us... In the end enjoy life.. stop hating on others for no reason... and having said that don't diss people who mess around with partying yet have a normal pumping life style if you are going to take most pres now... if you are going to take things like craze, 1,3 etc... It's all pretty much in a way the same sorry to say... not saying its a bad thing at all just a funny thing I see on these forums...
Ok haters come at me but I mean no harm bros.. just want people to grow up more and enjoy themselves life's short... enjoy craze for sure the stuff is awesome... but remember to keep lifting heavier and heavier!
 
From my testing the main compound in this formula appears to be (note i said appears) N-benzyl-2-phenylethylamine.

I would not expect this compound to possess strong CNS stimulant activity but I am not entirely sure
 
Patrick Arnold said:
Past record can matter insofar as it can intimidate a defendant into settling quickly
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Not if they are confident they have done anything wrong.

Issue with settling is the flood of lawsuits that come after.

Imagine if USPLabs settled... So many greedy idiots would file class actions and use the previous cases as precedent...

Thats all I was trying to say, but I understand your point..
 
Daycrawler said:
Not if they are confident they have done anything wrong.
..
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when it comes to the legal system (criminal and civil) being right doesnt keep you from getting screwed. It costs a lot of money to prove you are right. Thats why it is often the smart business (or personal if its criminal) decision to settle, even if you are 100 percent right
 
Patrick Arnold said:
when it comes to the legal system (criminal and civil) being right doesnt keep you from getting screwed. It costs a lot of money to prove you are right. Thats why it is often the smart business (or personal if its criminal) decision to settle, even if you are 100 percent right
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Well aware, been working at a law firm for a year. Business litigation, so i've seen first hand how much it costs. Even my work wasn't cheap...


After a year, I think there is no right or wrong. Theres what you can prove, what you can make ppl believe and how much you're willing to spend
 
Patrick Arnold said:
you would hope that they would change their practices after the settlement to avoid subsequent lawsuits
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Lol, yeah true but i've yet to see this happen as most ppl think they can beat the system.
 
Hello everyone, just signed up today I have a msg i think is important. I started taking craze about 3 weeks ago and thought it worked pretty good and was happy with it till yesterday. yesterday was the day our company did its two year interval drug testing. I have never taken drugs in my life theres no chance anything would ever show up but yesterday I tested positive for meth amphetamines and it literally could not be from anything else. I'm not telling anyone i don't think they should take it or that its bad because i thought it worked great my work outs have been awesome! But if your like me and your at a job where drug testing is taking place and you care about your image and your job Iseriously recommend taking some time to research this. 80,000 dollars a year is no longer my income its now 0 dollars and a large company of some largely influential people are all under the assumption that I'm a F%$@ing drug addict because most of them are in there 50's and they don't grasp the concept that a work out sup has the ability to trigger a bad piss test. so ya my life got severely F@#%ed with thanks DS CRAZE!!!

this job and drug testing was in canada so not sure how that affects those of you who are in the u.s. but if you work in canada don't let this happen to you.
 
jobless said:
Hello everyone, just signed up today I have a msg i think is important. I started taking craze about 3 weeks ago and thought it worked pretty good and was happy with it till yesterday. yesterday was the day our company did its two year interval drug testing. I have never taken drugs in my life theres no chance anything would ever show up but yesterday I tested positive for meth amphetamines and it literally could not be from anything else. I'm not telling anyone i don't think they should take it or that its bad because i thought it worked great my work outs have been awesome! But if your like me and your at a job where drug testing is taking place and you care about your image and your job Iseriously recommend taking some time to research this. 80,000 dollars a year is no longer my income its now 0 dollars and a large company of some largely influential people are all under the assumption that I'm a F%$@ing drug addict because most of them are in there 50's and they don't grasp the concept that a work out sup has the ability to trigger a bad piss test. so ya my life got severely F@#%ed with thanks DS CRAZE!!!

this job and drug testing was in canada so not sure how that affects those of you who are in the u.s. but if you work in canada don't let this happen to you.
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u should always disclose what supplements you take when you do a urinalysis

relax

have them do a secondary screening using gc/ms. if your meth positive is a false positive due to an ingredient in the product than u should be cleared. this happens all the time so it wont be a big deal
 
jobless said:
Hello everyone, just signed up today I have a msg i think is important. I started taking craze about 3 weeks ago and thought it worked pretty good and was happy with it till yesterday. yesterday was the day our company did its two year interval drug testing. I have never taken drugs in my life theres no chance anything would ever show up but yesterday I tested positive for meth amphetamines and it literally could not be from anything else. I'm not telling anyone i don't think they should take it or that its bad because i thought it worked great my work outs have been awesome! But if your like me and your at a job where drug testing is taking place and you care about your image and your job Iseriously recommend taking some time to research this. 80,000 dollars a year is no longer my income its now 0 dollars and a large company of some largely influential people are all under the assumption that I'm a F%$@ing drug addict because most of them are in there 50's and they don't grasp the concept that a work out sup has the ability to trigger a bad piss test. so ya my life got severely F@#%ed with thanks DS CRAZE!!!

this job and drug testing was in canada so not sure how that affects those of you who are in the u.s. but if you work in canada don't let this happen to you.
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This can't be real, i know if I popped I would raise a fuss and demand to be retested while submitting all the sups I'm taking. Lots of things will pop a test dude and people don't just get canned for it without a retest.
 
demolition said:
This can't be real, i know if I popped I would raise a fuss and demand to be retested while submitting all the sups I'm taking. Lots of things will pop a test dude and people don't just get canned for it without a retest.
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Yeah this, most definitely. They'd do a retest. Also you'd tell them/ bring samples of any supplements.
 
I wonder why some people test positive and others dont. Ive taken two UAs on craze and was good both times.

Hey jobless how long after you ingested craze did you take the UA?
 
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