Donald Trump running for president

[nostrum420]

Do you guys seriously think you're the only country with a gang problem?

Sorry man, apparently you live in utopia and therefore have no place to comment but at the same time we can't emulate the things that got you to utopian status because we're too big and different but also we think America is the best even though we think our gang problem is way worse than yours.

 

[tyga tyga]

Who's to say the whole thing wasn't an elaborate hoax and he was never really drunk at all? Who's to say the cop didn't do a stunt fall and hand the guy the taser and then the man ran because he was drunk and confused?

We can come up with ever more elaborate what if scenarios but I think if we use Occam's razor, the simplest explanation was that the guy didn't want to get arrested and was trying to run away.

He was drunk
He did take the officers taser
He did fire it in the officers direction
Unfortunately there are multiple body cams showing this.

I understand not wanting to go to jail. And it really is a tragedy he lost his life. It’s really sad that Breonna Taylors case hasn’t gotten MORE attention than it has.

 

[nostrum420]

He was drunk
He did take the officers taser
He did fire it in the officers direction
Unfortunately there are multiple body cams showing this.

I understand not wanting to go to jail. And it really is a tragedy he lost his life. It’s really sad that Breonna Taylors case hasn’t gotten MORE attention than it has.

I still don't think it justifies killing the guy but it's not as egregious as other examples, we can agree on that much.

 

[ax1]

Who's to say the whole thing wasn't an elaborate hoax and he was never really drunk at all? Who's to say the cop didn't do a stunt fall and hand the guy the taser and then the man ran because he was drunk and confused?

We can come up with ever more elaborate what if scenarios but I think if we use Occam's razor, the simplest explanation was that the guy didn't want to get arrested and was trying to run away.

Are the coroner's results out? I can see Federal Government setups, but I cant see why the time would be invested in this guy unless there is something we dont know about him. Usually these kinds of setups where you go to rig the coroner are done on journalists, whistle-blowers or other freedom loving patriots.

There is a difference between simply running away and scrambling with an officer a little bit vs running away by grabbing any weapon you can off an officer and then attempting using it against them in the process. The latter shouldnt always equate to getting shot but these things understandably can happen.

 

[nostrum420]

Are the coroner's results out? I can see Federal Government setups, but I cant see why the time would be invested in this guy unless there is something we dont know about him. Usually these kinds of setups where you go to rig the coroner are done on journalists, whistle-blowers or other freedom loving patriots.

There is a difference between simply running away and scrambling with an officer a little bit vs running away by grabbing any weapon you can off an officer and then attempting using it against them in the process. The latter shouldnt always equate to getting shot but these things understandably can happen.

Like I said, I can agree that this was not as egregious as other examples.

 

[sammpedd88]

By the time he got shot he was less than 0 threat to the officer. He was on the ground blubbering and that cop just lost his mind.

I don't know how you can justify that kind of force and still claim to want "small government." I don't think there's any more intrusive form of government intervention than government employees killing citizens.

The key to this is the words you used...”by the time he got shot”. There are key factors in human performance, especially under stress, perception and reaction time. When you factor that in, on top of the fact the the use of force is reactive and not proactive. It’s going to look like the force that’s being used was used when there’s no longer a threat. You cant change the dynamics of the human body.

 

[nostrum420]

The key to this is the words you used...”by the time he got shot”. There are key factors in human performance, especially under stress, perception and reaction time. When you factor that in, on top of the fact the the use of force is reactive and not proactive. It’s going to look like the force that’s being used was used when there’s no longer a threat. You can change the dynamics of the human body.

You get the gold in mental gymnastics.

 

[sammpedd88]

He showed a willingness to take a taser and fire it at an officers face. Who is to say IF he had connected to tissue on the officer he didn’t have the willingness to take the LEO side arm?

I hate that the guy was completely cooperative until it came to the officer having to put him in cuffs and take him to jail. Why fight it?

Also don’t forget...just a few weeks earlier the Fulton County DA said in GA a taser is a deadly weapon. If anyone understands the case law regarding deadly force, then you would them understand that the Atlanta officers were more than justified to use deadly force. I hate they had to but I hate it more that the DA charged the officers for political reasons.

 

[thebigt]

Conversing with you is fun but has more left turns than Nascar.

I do well enough to have time to kill on this thread.

at least we are conversing....without yelling, screaming and getting all riled up.

 

[dixonk]

Lot to take in since last night. So cops are expected to be perfect. Criminals are expected to keep acting like criminals without repercussions. Cops are getting paid to be hurt or killed on the job. Tracking.

Meanwhile, the country is burning because a drugged out thug criminal had an interaction with a cop while in commission of a crime and lost his life. Still trying to figure out how he would have been targeted if he had been at work earning actual legal currency and taking care of his family. Instead we turned him into a hero, the same guy who assaulted a pregnant woman and beat her ass and has been committed crimes his whole adult life.

All around this country blacks are killing each other at levels higher than actual war zones and nothing but crickets from the organization known as BLM.

I maintain that if they don’t want to be targeted by police then don’t give a reason to. Being a functional member of society is not some difficult task.

 

[tyga tyga]

Dingus, no one is saying all the killings between African Americans is okay? Lol

 

[dixonk]

Dingus, no one is saying all the killings between African Americans is okay? Lol

Exactly. They aren’t saying anything at all. They are only worried about the killings of thugs by cops.

 

[manifesto]

 

[nostrum420]

View attachment 195974

I thought you were pro 2a?

 

[thebigt]

Dingus, no one is saying all the killings between African Americans is okay? Lol

what are they saying?

 

[Jiigzz]

Its hard to know what was going in the officers head when the human body has freight and flight response. If the officer lost his mind its still the fault of the drunkard who attacked the officer. Its simple, do not try to assault an officer, just let them arrest you and go through proper due process and face your crimes of drinking and driving. Maybe there can be made a fair case that the officer needs to be relieved from active duties if there is evidence he lost composure to prevent future unfortunate instances, but murder? Come on man, that is just insane. George Floyd cop on the other hand, of course that was murder.

Drinking and driving is intrusive to American citizens, this is where government comes in to protect the life and liberties of others. And if you resist arrest and attack the officers bad things might happen. Its going to get to the point where we are just going to lose too many officers and less people wanting that job if you over police the police.

That's where training comes in, and better recruitment. If you're a police officer, you need to remain calm in stressful situations. Once the threat is neutralized, you dont go out of your way to apply more force.

Police are NOT judge, juries and executioners. Regardless of the crime, they are there to apprehend or neutralise active threats to the safety of themselves or others, not take due process into their own hands.

Theres a really good video of a US female cop who was attacked by a male who had knives; she stayed calm and repeatedly asked him to back down. Only after he repeatedly failed to comply did she act. That's how use of deadly force should be considered and applied.

 

[Jiigzz]

Breonna Taylor’s incident was a **** show, I’ll give you that. But that incident doesn’t mean officers purposely kill blacks because they’re black. It was a tragic incident but there’s nothing that shows the officers were racist. It also doesn’t mean that all other officer involved shootings are bad shoots.

I agree, I'm not trying to say anyone is purposely killing anyone, just that I can understand why some people dont trust police because stuff ups like this happen, and accident or not, the fact noone has been held to account for the stuff up (even if not the officer, then whoever didn't do their due diligence and check the address etc).

That's all I'm focusing on. Not saying she was killed intentionally or anything like that, but just highlighting why mistrust does exist

 

[thebigt]

I agree, I'm not trying to say anyone is purposely killing anyone, just that I can understand why some people dont trust police because stuff ups like this happen, and accident or not, the fact noone has been held to account for the stuff up (even if not the officer, then whoever didn't do their due diligence and check the address etc).

That's all I'm focusing on. Not saying she was killed intentionally or anything like that, but just highlighting why mistrust does exist

mistrust works both ways....

 

[Jiigzz]

Lot to take in since last night. So cops are expected to be perfect. Criminals are expected to keep acting like criminals without repercussions. Cops are getting paid to be hurt or killed on the job. Tracking.

Meanwhile, the country is burning because a drugged out thug criminal had an interaction with a cop while in commission of a crime and lost his life. Still trying to figure out how he would have been targeted if he had been at work earning actual legal currency and taking care of his family. Instead we turned him into a hero, the same guy who assaulted a pregnant woman and beat her ass and has been committed crimes his whole adult life.

All around this country blacks are killing each other at levels higher than actual war zones and nothing but crickets from the organization known as BLM.

I maintain that if they don’t want to be targeted by police then don’t give a reason to. Being a functional member of society is not some difficult task.

dO nOtHiNg WrOnG aNd YoU wOnT hAvE pRoBlEmS

Driving While Black: Racial Profiling On Our Nation's Highways | American Civil Liberties Union

In suburban Avon, for example, former police officers corroborated the existence of the long-rumored "Barkhamsted Express," a slang term for the routine stopping of black and Hispanic motorists traveling through town from Hartford to the Barkhamsted reservoir. Sources: The Hartford Courant and The Boston Globe

In Florida in 1997, Aaron Campbell was pulled over by Orange County sheriff's deputies while driving on the Florida Turnpike. The stop ended with him being wrestled to the ground, hit with pepper spray and arrested. It turned out that Campbell was a major in the Metro-Dade Police Department and had identified himself as such when he was pulled over for an illegal lane change and having an obscured license tag. Said Campbell, "The majority of people they are searching and humiliating are black people. That's why I was so angry. I went from being an ordinary citizen and decorated officer to a criminal in a matter of minutes." (Source: The Washington Times)

I feel like I'm a guy who's pretty much walked the straight line and that's respecting people and everything. We just constantly get harassed. So we just feel like we can't go anywhere without being bothered... I'm not trying to bother anybody. But yet a cop pulls me over and says I'm weaving in the road. And I just came from a friend's house, no alcohol, nothing. It just makes you wonder – was it just because I'm black?"
– James, 28, advertising account executive

In 1996, two officers in police cruisers followed George Washington and Darryl Hicks as they drove into the parking garage of the hotel where they were staying in Santa Monica. The men were ordered out of the car at gun point, handcuffed and placed in separate police cars while the officers searched their car and checked their identification. The police justified this detention because the men allegedly resembled a description of two suspects being sought for 19 armed robberies and because one of the men seemed to be "nervous." The men filed suit against the officers and the court found that neither man fit the descriptions of the robbers and that the robberies had not even occurred in the City of Santa Monica. (Source: The Los Angeles Times)

In Colorado, officials in Eagle County paid $800,000 in damages in 1995 to black and Latino motorists stopped on Interstate 70 solely because they fit a drug courier profile.

 

[dixonk]

dO nOtHiNg WrOnG aNd YoU wOnT hAvE pRoBlEmS

Driving While Black: Racial Profiling On Our Nation's Highways | American Civil Liberties Union

In suburban Avon, for example, former police officers corroborated the existence of the long-rumored "Barkhamsted Express," a slang term for the routine stopping of black and Hispanic motorists traveling through town from Hartford to the Barkhamsted reservoir. Sources: The Hartford Courant and The Boston Globe

In Florida in 1997, Aaron Campbell was pulled over by Orange County sheriff's deputies while driving on the Florida Turnpike. The stop ended with him being wrestled to the ground, hit with pepper spray and arrested. It turned out that Campbell was a major in the Metro-Dade Police Department and had identified himself as such when he was pulled over for an illegal lane change and having an obscured license tag. Said Campbell, "The majority of people they are searching and humiliating are black people. That's why I was so angry. I went from being an ordinary citizen and decorated officer to a criminal in a matter of minutes." (Source: The Washington Times)

I feel like I'm a guy who's pretty much walked the straight line and that's respecting people and everything. We just constantly get harassed. So we just feel like we can't go anywhere without being bothered... I'm not trying to bother anybody. But yet a cop pulls me over and says I'm weaving in the road. And I just came from a friend's house, no alcohol, nothing. It just makes you wonder – was it just because I'm black?"
– James, 28, advertising account executive

In 1996, two officers in police cruisers followed George Washington and Darryl Hicks as they drove into the parking garage of the hotel where they were staying in Santa Monica. The men were ordered out of the car at gun point, handcuffed and placed in separate police cars while the officers searched their car and checked their identification. The police justified this detention because the men allegedly resembled a description of two suspects being sought for 19 armed robberies and because one of the men seemed to be "nervous." The men filed suit against the officers and the court found that neither man fit the descriptions of the robbers and that the robberies had not even occurred in the City of Santa Monica. (Source: The Los Angeles Times)

In Colorado, officials in Eagle County paid $800,000 in damages in 1995 to black and Latino motorists stopped on Interstate 70 solely because they fit a drug courier profile.

Stories from 25 years ago? Okie dokie....

 

[Jiigzz]

mistrust works both ways....

Of course. But part of being a cop is to treat each person equally. If you cant, dont be a cop. Simple.

Treat people like animals, expect them to behave like one.

 

[Jiigzz]

Stories from 25 years ago? Okie dokie....

You dont think this still happens? Your ignorance is blinding.

 

[dixonk]

You dont think this still happens? Your ignorance is blinding.

Not enough to be burning the country down. Nope.

 

[Jiigzz]

Major study shows black people more likely to be pulled over and have a firearm pulled on them:

Black people in California are stopped far more often by police, major study proves

Statistics, which come from largest-ever dataset compiled about US police stops, lend support to minority groups who have long complained about biased policing

www.theguardian.com

 

[thebigt]

Major study shows black people more likely to be pulled over and have a firearm pulled on them:

Black people in California are stopped far more often by police, major study proves

Statistics, which come from largest-ever dataset compiled about US police stops, lend support to minority groups who have long complained about biased policing

www.theguardian.com

california is one of the most liberal/democrat states in the US.

mayors run the police depts, appoint their choices of who they want in charge and can fire at will.

 

[thebigt]

david gilmour- echoes [remember that night]

feat.rick wright

 

[Jiigzz]

david gilmour- echoes [remember that night]

feat.rick wright

I'll give it a listen!

 

[Jiigzz]

Not enough to be burning the country down. Nope.

I can agree the riots and looting is taking it to far and deflating the core message. I'm definitely not defending those actions. I also dont support killing or hurting police officers as a response either.

I support peaceful protest.

 

[ax1]

Major study shows black people more likely to be pulled over and have a firearm pulled on them:

Black people in California are stopped far more often by police, major study proves

Statistics, which come from largest-ever dataset compiled about US police stops, lend support to minority groups who have long complained about biased policing

www.theguardian.com

Maybe that has something to do with the fact that they statistically both have a higher crime rate and higher murder rate.

I mean if I was black and a good law abiding citizen and statistically black on black crime and murder was significantly higher than white on black crime, I would expect police to do their job and get rid of criminals regardless of their color and ratio of who gets pulled over.

 

[thebigt]

I can agree the riots and looting is taking it to far and deflating the core message. I'm definitely not defending those actions. I also dont support killing or hurting police officers as a response either.

I support peaceful protest.

'peaceful' protest?

 

[Jiigzz]

Agreed. Respect goes both ways. But in saying that, the expectation of policing is that you will get abused often, and while you wish all people would treat you with the respect you show them, that's not always the case.

The expectation is that you are better than the behaviour you police.

 

[Jiigzz]

'peaceful' protest?

Sure.

There are plenty of people not burning things to the ground taking a stand for what they believe in. A show of solidarity can push forward change.

So far these protests have changed policy on use of body cams in some areas, and policy that requires fellow police officers to intervene if they witness other police using unnecessary force.

I dont agree with all of the changes, but those 2 are pretty significant. I'm not really sure what the objectives are now for the protest though. In my mind they've made their voices heard already.

 

[thebigt]

I'll give it a listen!

also david gilmour-shine on you crazy diamond feat.crosby and nash[remember that night]

yup crosby and nash on background vocals.

 

[thebigt]

@Jiigzz

just found this gem...paul mcCartney live at the cavern with david gilmour and ian paice---pace is/was drummer for deep purple.

nice to see mr.gilmour playing a different kind of music-he looks like he is having fun...i know i am enjoying it!!!

 

[Jiigzz]

@Jiigzz

just found this gem...paul mcCartney live at the cavern with david gilmour and ian paice---pace is/was drummer for deep purple.

nice to see mr.gilmour playing a different kind of music-he looks like he is having fun...i know i am enjoying it!!!

I'm adding these all to my spotify. So good.

My dad is a huge pink floyd/ david gilmour fan, so he's pretty stoked I'm listening to them as well

 

[thebigt]

I'm adding these all to my spotify. So good.

My dad is a huge pink floyd/ david gilmour fan, so he's pretty stoked I'm listening to them as well

just ticking away the moments that make up a dull day...
fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way...

your dad and i will meet one day in the great gig in the sky!!!!

 

[manifesto]

Of course. But part of being a cop is to treat each person equally. If you cant, dont be a cop. Simple.

Treat people like animals, expect them to behave like one.

You have the most wisdom of every cop I've ever spoken with...like the Yoda of liberal policework

 

[manifesto]

Major study shows black people more likely to be pulled over and have a firearm pulled on them:

Black people in California are stopped far more often by police, major study proves

Statistics, which come from largest-ever dataset compiled about US police stops, lend support to minority groups who have long complained about biased policing

www.theguardian.com

Not far from where I live there is a large black gang problem...so ywah, more of them get stopped. Gang members typically have guns, so yeah more guns are drawn...

 

[manifesto]

I have always been intirgiued with New Zealand, and thought it looked like a nice place to live.. but if your ideas represent the general mentality of police there; i would never move there.

 

[Jiigzz]

Not far from where I live there is a large black gang problem...so ywah, more of them get stopped. Gang members typically have guns, so yeah more guns are drawn...

So do you automatically assume that every black person is in a gang? Is that your mentality?

 

[Jiigzz]

I have always been intirgiued with New Zealand, and thought it looked like a nice place to live.. but if your ideas represent the general mentality of police there; i would never move there.

We used US police training videos as examples of what NOT to do, lol.

If you aren't for compassion, then please do not even consider moving here.

Who would have thought that someone pushing for police to be compassionate would be where you draw the line LOL.

 

[Jiigzz]

Check this out. 72% of white people think the police treat black and whites fairly. 62% of blacks do not feel equally treated.

Isnt that strange. White people perceive the equality that black people dont feel? Go figure.

Also not surprising is this:

White Democrats and white Republicans have vastly different views of how black people are treated by police and the wider justice system. Overwhelming majorities of white Democrats say black people are treated less fairly than whites by the police (88%) and the criminal justice system (86%), according to the 2019 poll. About four-in-ten white Republicans agree (43% and 39%, respectively).

If a guy with a million dollars says, "poorness doesnt exist" simply because they are rich, does that that mean poorness doesnt exist, or just that they havent experienced it?

 

[Jiigzz]

Top is from a protester, bottom is from a lawyer. Nope, definitely not an overreaction and nope, definitely all in our heads.

From Wikileaks from the hacking of the police database

 

[Jiigzz]

Also

Definitely a violent criminal. Definitely deserved this response. And nope, wasn't profiled at all.

But like keeps being repeated ITT, dont do anything wrong and there wont be any trouble. Interesting. Picking up rubbish on your own property must be a pretty serious crime where you guys are.

When I worked in police I had more than a few jobs called in that were 100% profiled. 1 I recall was called in by a maid for a property who saw 2 Maori boys cycling around the cul de sac. I asked what they were doing that made her call 111. She said, and I quote "they look up to no good" and "this is a nice area and they aren't from here".

Another call, Black male walking down road with hood up at 5am. I asked what he had been doing or was doing "dont know, but hes up to something".

Nope. Not going. Not illegal to ride a bike or wear a hoody.

 

[ax1]

Well now, thanks Mr. Kim Jong Big-Bum, my son.....I can rest now that we will have everlasting peace because of you.

Seoul, South Korea (CNN)North Korean leader Kim Jong Un said he believes his country will no longer need to fight wars because its nuclear arsenal guarantees its safety, according to North Korean state media.

"With our reliable and effective self-defensive nuclear deterrent, there will be no more war on this earth, and our country's safety and future will be secured forever," Kim said in a speech, North Korea's Korean Central News Agency (KCNA) reported Tuesday.

Kim Jong Un says there will be 'no more war on this earth' thanks to North Korea's nuclear weapons | CNN

North Korean leader Kim Jong Un said he believes his country will no longer need to fight wars because its nuclear arsenal guarantees its safety, according to North Korean state media.

www.cnn.com

 

[nostrum420]

So do you automatically assume that every black person is in a gang? Is that your mentality?

The Aryan Brotherhood has more people than any other gang in the country which is why no one ITT minds being stopped for being white all the time.

If you use historical evidence it's "that was then and this is now!" If you use contemporary evidence it's "that's over there and we're over here!" These guys are immune to evidence. It's kind of uncanny.

 

[thebigt]

i listened to a interview with a former high school teacher, she seems to think that it isn't just police youngsters have a problem with, it's authority figures in general...

 

[ax1]

i listened to a interview with a former high school teacher, she seems to think that it isn't just police youngsters have a problem with, it's authority figures in general...

I think I’m still in high school.

 

[ax1]

 

[manifesto]

The Aryan Brotherhood has more people than any other gang in the country which is why no one ITT minds being stopped for being white all the time.

If you use historical evidence it's "that was then and this is now!" If you use contemporary evidence it's "that's over there and we're over here!" These guys are immune to evidence. It's kind of uncanny.

If i stopped an AB fool, I'd definitely be breaking leather...please believe.