Unanswered Inspired by Lyle McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss Handbook; Critique this Modified Plan?

ucimigrate

Active member
Hello Everyone,

I was thinking of Lyle Mcdonald's Rapid Fat Loss Handbook. Because his program is so strict, and has no carbs, and that would make me have no energy to workout or performance in the gym, I will do a modified program:

1. Workout Four Times a Week:
Heavy Free Weights with Burnouts and Supersets; + Range of Motion Flexibility.
At the end of each workout, I will do some intense cardio such as Bodyweight Finishers, Shuttle Runs, or 20 Minutes of HIIT (Like in Body for Life).

2. Again, because I need carbs to have energy, perform in the gym, and recover well:

a. Pre-Workout:
25 Grams Whey Protein Isolate
25 Grams Dextrose

b. Post Workout:
50 Grams Whey Protein Isolate
100 Grams Carbs (Maybe Dextrose, Maybe Baked Potatoes or White Rice)

3. The rest of the day, I will eat protein and vegetables.

Now, I would like to tell you that I would eat only food I cooked; but that may be impossible.
Surely, restaurants put so much oil, starch powder, etc. even in ordering eggs and tomatoes.
But, in the big picture, I do not think it will make too much of a difference.

4. In the past, I have tried diets that had "no carbs after 4 pm" etc. I just felt fatigued. Then again, I used to take caffeine, which I now know causes a lot of anxiety, fatigue and spiking insulin.

Also, my muscles looked so weak and deflated.

However, this time, the four days I workout will have good pre-workouts to give some carbs and protein.

After I workout, ample carbs should provide some satisfaction.

5. Any critiques someone can give me?

I am curious which four day splits would work well. There definitely is information overload that I am still trying to work through.

Thanks!
 
Why not just follow a diet that contains 150g of carbs, eat moderate protein (at least 1g/lb) and modify fat intake (at least 20%) and then adjust as needed when you stall.
You don't need to follow an outline to a T. Everything should be tailored to your needs

Also getting ALL of your carbs from Dextrose or simple carbs is just plain dumb. I would focus on much better sources such as berries, potatoes, rice, rice cakes, cream of rice which has better nutritional value than pure sugar.

I don't agree with lots of burnout sets when dieting that is a sure recipe for muscle loss (which you experienced before) you want to train heavy when dieting to preserve muscle mass start volume on the low end due to the fact your in a deficit and if you increase cardio you will be expending a lot of glycogen the body does not have. If you negate it that is why you had such a bad experience last go around.

Remember if your adding more cardio (the longer you diet) volume will have to taper. So I would focus on fiding the happy balance of where you can recover properly each session while in a deficit before adding more intensity techniques (burnout and supersets) and focus on trying to preserve as much muscle as possible.

Personally, the name of the game when dieting is
- Keeping calories/carbs as high as possible while still losing
- Still training heavy, trying to match your numbers week in and week out (if not surpass them)
-Keep cardio as LOW as possible and calories as HIGH as possible while still losing
- When you stall this is when you can 1) add in cardio or 2) Slightly drop calories.

So many people want to just jump to a huge deficit, add a ton of cardio, and add a ton of volume. This is a HUGE recipe for disaster

These are good links for you


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I highly suggest you read here regarding your diet:

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Meal Frequency & Pattern:
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Exercise & Weightloss:
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Fundamental Principles of Dieting:
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Right from Lyle's webpage. Quick Fix's don't always work, and some people don't have the mental fortitude to deal with a drastic shift in caloric intake. Personally start on the slow end, slowly adjust, and this way you won't lose muscle mass and be able to keep your metabolism a lot higher than cutting your strings.
 
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So...yeah. The Solution has some good advice there.

Here is what I will say. In my opinion, a big part of dieting is being brutally honest with yourself. You need to decide what your real goal is, why you want it, and what your are going to give for it.

IF you want the fastest weight loss possible and that is just your goal and that is it - then do not modify Lyle's protocol. You will just make it less effective.

If you are willing to give up on the effectiveness of Lyle's protocol, then do not follow it at all - it is brutal and lacks in almost every way. The ONLY reason to do it is for fast/effective fat loss. If you give up that reason and keep everything else you will have the worst of all possible worlds.

But be honest. If that is what you want, he laid it out.

Or follow The Solution's advice.

Either way, eating out will submarine your fat loss faster than anything, IMO. You have no control over how they make stuff or how much they give you 95% of the time. Your statement if all the oils, etc. not making much difference could not be more wrong, IMO.

And don't get me wrong, I am not against RFL - I showed it works on here with a log where I ran it for almost 6 months a few years ago. It has its use. It isn't ideal in all situations though. I would suggest it in a heart beat for people who have more than 50 pounds to lose though, just to get healthier. But you still need to work on long term habits.
 
All is good advice.

A lot of it is also having the courage to try something new again.

Twenty years ago, as a teen, I went to stores like MaxMuscle, with things such as "no carbs after 4pm", using an electronic Tanita scale, etc. Their advice just sapped my energy, discouraged me, etc.

I agree with what you guys are saying.

"Many roads lead to Rome." as the proverb goes. The key thing is to have a goal of fat loss (and not muscle and strength gain) and stick to it, even though it is unpleasant to diet.
 
What is your current height and weight? Natural? Gear?
 
ucimigrate said:
All is good advice.

A lot of it is also having the courage to try something new again.

Twenty years ago, as a teen, I went to stores like MaxMuscle, with things such as "no carbs after 4pm", using an electronic Tanita scale, etc. Their advice just sapped my energy, discouraged me, etc.

I agree with what you guys are saying.

"Many roads lead to Rome." as the proverb goes. The key thing is to have a goal of fat loss (and not muscle and strength gain) and stick to it, even though it is unpleasant to diet.
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What is the fascination with people wanting to "Change things up", "Try Something New", "Do something different"

Create a caloric deficit
Keeping calories as high as possible while still losing... then you can allow yourself the flexibility to drop calories when you stall
Keeping cardio to a minimum, add as you stall
Basing your diet off whole foods and then throwing in simple sources if you have wiggle room
Focus on maintaining strength or beating the logbook
Keep the volume on the low end if you are adding cardio due to expanded glycogen and caloric expenditure (Since the body has less glycogen to release and store)

It is quite simple. People just try to make it a damn science experiment. Which yields more overthinking and underproducing. Now how you want to set up your macros is the hard part because we all react to different things (high carb, low fat.... low carb, high fat)...

Then as you get leaner you can mess around with how many g's of carbs for refeeds, cheat meals, or manipulating ways to raise leptin, t3, hormone levels the leaner you get in a dieting phase.
 
@TheSolution, thanks for the answers.

1. I am not trying to reinvent the wheel, etc. Rather, a lot is simply that universal truths, or even scientific principles are hard to find with bodybuilding. Even then, it is hard to do enough to get results but not overdo something like diet or exercise in a way that saps strength, muscle mass, energy level or lifestyle.

2. Some people can eat nothing but protein and look and feel great, with no loss in physique or performance. I am much more sensitive.

3. Thank you for these principles, I learned something new by thinking about them deeper.


a. Create a caloric deficit: obviously, we know that is true.
b. Keeping calories as high as possible while still losing... then you can allow yourself the flexibility to drop calories when you stall
c. Keeping cardio to a minimum, add as you stall
d. Basing your diet off whole foods and then throwing in simple sources if you have wiggle room
e. Focus on maintaining strength or beating the logbook
f. Keep the volume on the low end if you are adding cardio due to expanded glycogen and caloric expenditure (Since the body has less glycogen to release and store)

4. In practical terms, this means simply doing more resistance training and watching what I eat.

I am slowly doing more of that, even though I am traveling right now.
 
Go have those people who eat "nothing but protein" get bloodwork
Then send it to me after 2-4-6 months of doing just that.
I'll wait to see how "healthy" These people truly are. Just because they look great, does not mean their body is in an optimal or healthy state. A lot of people do dumb things which can yield a negative impact on their health.

Please explain how outlining your original statement of getting all your carbs from pure sugar (Dextrose) is optimal?
You may as well eat skittles or gummy worms of a non-nutrient source like Dextrose.

That's the issue, there is A LOT of misinformation from over 10+ years ago. Times change, nutrition changes, and theories change. Its always best to stay up to date by following those who research these things for a living, and get the correct information, not the wrong information.

My 2 cents.
 
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Thanks for the continued conversation.

1. I know many knucklehead/musclehead/meathead bodybuilders eat so much protein, but have elevated creatinine and BUN levels. That certainly shows kidney problems.

2. I do know that starches are better than sugars. Some things, such as maltodextrin, are metabolized as a complex carb even though they are a sugar.

If I had access to all products, etc.

I would choose a MRP (like Myoplex) before a workout, as it would have whey protein + maltodextrin.

After a workout, I could choose a post-workout shake (such as whey protein + more maltodextrin). I also agree that egg whites, lean steak, chicken, etc. could be a protein source; white rice, baked potatoes, pasta would also be a good post-workout source to replenish glycogen.

3. I am abroad. So, it is easier to get some supplements, harder to get others.

I have easy access to creatine monohydrate and perhaps glutamine. Those would work well before and after a workout (cf. Will Brink's Creatine Graveyard).

I could also get more things like Ostarine, LGD-4033 here.

However, I am not sure a chemist would make exactly what I tell them to make, and that it would be safe:

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4. Thanks for all the advice.

5. Right now, my next goal is to get up to working out, hard, four times a week.

I think resistance training + range of motion exercises + some mix of bodyweight finishers, sprint, etc. is the way to go. Short, controlled bursts of exercise, and give my body chances to repair.

No huge cardio sessions or anything that would stop me from recovering.

I will try to watch what I eat. The only time I was able to follow a strict diet was the low-fat Body for Life diet. This time around, I would want to focus more on pre and post workout nutrition, while reducing the carbs out from the other meals.
 
Thanks for the continued conversation.

1. I know many knucklehead/musclehead/meathead bodybuilders eat so much protein, but have elevated creatinine and BUN levels. That certainly shows kidney problems.

2. I do know that starches are better than sugars. Some things, such as maltodextrin, are metabolized as a complex carb even though they are a sugar.

If I had access to all products, etc.

I would choose a MRP (like Myoplex) before a workout, as it would have whey protein + maltodextrin.

After a workout, I could choose a post-workout shake (such as whey protein + more maltodextrin). I also agree that egg whites, lean steak, chicken, etc. could be a protein source; white rice, baked potatoes, pasta would also be a good post-workout source to replenish glycogen.

3. I am abroad. So, it is easier to get some supplements, harder to get others.

I have easy access to creatine monohydrate and perhaps glutamine. Those would work well before and after a workout (cf. Will Brink's Creatine Graveyard).

I could also get more things like Ostarine, LGD-4033 here.

However, I am not sure a chemist would make exactly what I tell them to make, and that it would be safe:

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4. Thanks for all the advice.

5. Right now, my next goal is to get up to working out, hard, four times a week.

I think resistance training + range of motion exercises + some mix of bodyweight finishers, sprint, etc. is the way to go. Short, controlled bursts of exercise, and give my body chances to repair.

No huge cardio sessions or anything that would stop me from recovering.

I will try to watch what I eat. The only time I was able to follow a strict diet was the low-fat Body for Life diet. This time around, I would want to focus more on pre and post workout nutrition, while reducing the carbs out from the other meals.
 
Glutamine is garbage.. Don't buy it. You get plenty through food, and the research on it is done to help with treating GI Distress and those who need help with their intestinal tracts.. Hard pass

Malto is not optimal when dieting.. You would want whole food which has far more nutrients, vitamins, and minerals. You don't need SUPPLEMENTS. they are meant to "Supplement' Your diet and training program. Abroad or not the basis needs to be on WHOLE FOODS. You can't supplement a bad diet, and you are basing everything around powders and lackluster sugars (Malto and Dextrose). Get that out of your hard. Buy food which has far more merit then any pill or powder will.

Take 5g Creatine daily
Multi
Fishoil (2-3g EPA/DHA)
Whey --> To help meet protein needs you don't get from whole foods
Pre-Workout (if you need energy)
Vitamin D3 (5000 IU Daily)
Probiotic or enzymes (digestion)

The reason you fail a good diet is that you don't plan ahead, you don't weigh your food, nor are you consistent with your food prep. This is why you don't have success. The foundation to your success comes from a good diet, not an off the wall Protein fasting dieting of eating nothing but protein. This is a huge reason you see red flags of losing tons of muscle mass and feeling like crap. If you play your cards right you can maintain your strength, hold onto your muscle mass. Keep mood elevated, keep your metabolism high, and not crash diet and burn.
 
To kind of parrot The Solution here...you saying you have never been able to follow a diet except the body for life diet, is a huge red flag.

Another red flag I see people using euphemisms like, "I am going to watch what I eat." or "I am going to cut back." These euphemisms are code for, "I am going to do the minimum and I am not all in."

So, I am not against a PSMF. If you have disordered eating and you are 50+ pounds overweight, then the weight itself can be a medical issue that needs to be mitigated and PSMF will improve your health.

As far as blood work, my gf did a PSMF with me and lost 40 pounds. When she got her blood from the doctor there response wasn't, "You are eating 400 calories a day, you idiot!". They literally said, keep doing it and took her off her blood pressure medication. All of her bloodwork did improve and all of her issues cleared up and the doctors said she was a new person.

And if you are going all in, fine. But given your posts, if you are honest with yourself, do you believe you are committed? Do you believe you will go from being unable to follow any diet to being able to do the strictest diet there is?

Why don't you do this? Get myfitness pal and a scale. Weigh and log everything you eat. Everything. Start working in just that one skill. You will be amazed at what you learn and how easy it becomes with time.

If you cannot weigh it and accurately log it, don't eat it.

If you want something "bad" but you can log it, go ahead, eat it.

Some things you will learn is that you have no control when you eat out (which you already kind of brushed under the rug) and you will start to be more aware of your habits.

Dieting can be like brushing your teeth though. It isn't fun. Sometimes you just don't have the time or energy for it. But you NEVER skip it because it is a habit that is so strong that you will feel gross if you don't do it.

Set up an environment and diet habits that you can sustain. After a bit, the habits will take over and NOT eating your healthy meal will feel funny.
 
When I want to lose weight I never skip weighing my foods otherwise you really don't know what your getting. Once I am done cutting I still weigh most of my food and use set meals but am a bit less crazy about it. I do keep stepping on the scales so i know if my weight is going up.

If you really want to lose weight weighing foods is important and keeping a log of it. This way you really know what your doing. Its easier said then done. For me its easy as I work from home and am not easily bored with set meals. I eat a lot of salad with meat and Yoghurt with musli and whey / cassein / mct oil and of course eat fruits.

The last sacrifice I made was cutting out drinks that contain sugar completely. I know that if I don't do it completely I will take to much. If I don't buy it I can't drink it its that simple. I just don't buy the bad stuff. I don't eat out often so that also does not mess up my progress (yes I know its boring). If I do eat out i select places that have meat and salads.

If you really want to be lean you have to go for it. Though in my opinion its best to slowly cut away more and more not go full 100% at once. Otherwise you don't have room to to cut more once you stall.
 
. If you really want to be lean you have to go for it. Though in my opinion its best to slowly cut away more and more not go full 100% at once. Otherwise you don't have room to to cut more once you stall. [/QUOTE said:
I cut on 800 calories so I never stall. lol It’s not for everybody though. 800 calories a day plus doing construction/demo 7 days a week leads to 5lbs fat loss a week though. Strength comes back in about two weeks of normal eating.
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