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Volvo140G said:
The shirts are dope... wore my blue one to the gym today. Tight, soft.... haha
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I've heard such good things about these shirts dammit I want mine to just show up already!
 
So this whole lawsuit is over using synthetic versions of conpounds instead of the natural extracts listed on the labels? If that's the case not a huge deal.

Test boosters are usually such a joke that when Ultimate T gave me such crazy libido, acne, and strength gains for a natty product that I was worried it was spiked. Combine that with a lawsuit and I stopped taking my bottles of my 3rd run because i was convinced no natty test booster could be so strong. Hopefully it's just a legit product

Modern protein was by far my favorite protein and I hope they still plan on bringing out a strawberry flavor. Oxyelite was the best strawberry protein ever

The shirts are tits too
 
Every time I hear Oprah -- the only thing I can thin of anymore:

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Jiigzz said:
It's more to do with labelling things as extracts when they were synthetic (they are not the only company to do this - think Geranium extract and DMAA etc.) and telling suppliers to label products as things they are not for importation. The indictment is lengthy but it's worth checking out.
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link plz?
 
They were putting Prozac in OxyElite Pro from what I've heard. Sneaky sneaky.
 
Ryguy2016 said:
Either way, they've been known to be shady with their ingredients. Geranium extract anyone?
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stop spreading rumors.

and geranium is being sold by hi tech and its companies right now and is currently suing the fda over it. but maybe you like big brother taking away the good ****.
 
Tiocfaidh said:
stop spreading rumors.

and geranium is being sold by hi tech and its companies right now and is currently suing the fda over it. but maybe you like big brother taking away the good ****.
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Hey, I loved DMAA, I'm not for or against this, I'm just citing an example
 
I have to say, the FDA definitely makes the supplement industry have a lot of bad days. Any time something works you best believe it will be banned. I'm still trying to figure out why anabolic steroids are a schedule 3 substance when aspirin, Tylenol, and endless amounts of things are exponentially more deadly.... Common sense is not very prominent in our world/country.
 
Zoomie33240 said:
I have to say, the FDA definitely makes the supplement industry have a lot of bad days. Any time something works you best believe it will be banned. I'm still trying to figure out why anabolic steroids are a schedule 3 substance when aspirin, Tylenol, and endless amounts of things are exponentially more deadly.... Common sense is not very prominent in our world/country.
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Tylenol was actually supposed to be scheduled but through lobbying and corruption, it made its way OTC.
 
Ryguy2016 said:
Either way, they've been known to be shady with their ingredients. Geranium extract anyone?
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Like the 10,000 other companies who did the same thing?

Or all the ones using extracts to hide octodrine, AMP citrate etc
 
Ryguy2016 said:
Right? It was good stuff. Just a few people who didn't understand warning labels or max doses ruined it for all of us.
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The funny thing is is that the deaths couldn't even be directly related to the DMAA. Those guys that died of heart attacks could have just as easily died from caffeine overdose. BUT since caffeine is too profitable in our economy (coffee) they had to blame it on something....DMAA. Darwinism kicked in and they took our DMAA away
 
Zoomie33240 said:
The funny thing is is that the deaths couldn't even be directly related to the DMAA. Those guys that died of heart attacks could have just as easily died from caffeine overdose. BUT since caffeine is too profitable in our economy (coffee) they had to blame it on something....DMAA. Darwinism kicked in and they took our DMAA away
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Yeah. Rip DMAA
 
Tiocfaidh said:
stop spreading rumors.

and geranium is being sold by hi tech and its companies right now and is currently suing the fda over it. but maybe you like big brother taking away the good ****.
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Its not a rumour, they produced DMAA synthetically then labelled it as Geranium extract. After production, they then set out to find it in nature and establish its safety rather than before its introduction.

They have since found samples of it, albeit of inconsistent quantity, in Geranium which is somewhat dubious at this point. If they can find it then they might have a leg to stand on. Maybe.

But again, this is nothing new, but think about it this way - the safety of it for the purposes it was being used for was not established until after its widespread use so imagine of the data was overwhelmingly negative and it caused all manner of heart complications, the same people saying they dont care now would be fuming. Its just the way it is. I dont mind DMAA now, but I would have if it was dangerous lol
 
Zoomie33240 said:
The funny thing is is that the deaths couldn't even be directly related to the DMAA. Those guys that died of heart attacks could have just as easily died from caffeine overdose. BUT since caffeine is too profitable in our economy (coffee) they had to blame it on something....DMAA. Darwinism kicked in and they took our DMAA away
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Are you sure? You might want to read the case reports.
 
I don't think intentionally mislabeling something is ever really justified. No matter how many other companies do it.
 
Zoomie33240 said:
Are you talking about the Army guys?
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Yeah I was reading through it

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But ill go over it again. The lethal dose of caffeine is in the grams (like a lot of grams) but id have to see if it could have been anything else. Remember this, DMAA + Caffeine can have a dramatic effect on BP, amd even more so when coupled with high exertion activities, but im not sure you could get anywhere near a lethal dose of caffeine in one product without getting a huge whack of DMAA.

Ill read it again now
 
Jiigzz said:
Are you sure? You might want to read the case reports.
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Also, unless it was a case report that I haven't seen (which it very well could be) I guess my argument to that is: Doesn't caffeine also cause heart complications in certain individuals or if it is used improperly? If there were an extreme amount of deaths/complications from DMAA containing supplements then I would definitely change my mind (please correct me if I'm wrong). But from what I've seen the FDA knows as much about certain supplements as my toddler sometimes.
 
Jiigzz said:
Its not a rumour, they produced DMAA synthetically then labelled it as Geranium extract. After production, they then set out to find it in nature and establish its safety rather than before its introduction.

They have since found samples of it, albeit of inconsistent quantity, in Geranium which is somewhat dubious at this point. If they can find it then they might have a leg to stand on. Maybe.

But again, this is nothing new, but think about it this way - the safety of it for the purposes it was being used for was not established until after its widespread use so imagine of the data was overwhelmingly negative and it caused all manner of heart complications, the same people saying they dont care now would be fuming. Its just the way it is. I dont mind DMAA now, but I would have if it was dangerous lol
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slow your roll. he said they spiked oxyelite pro with prozac, which is untrue. so i said stop spreading rumors.
 
Jiigzz said:
Yeah I was reading through it

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But ill go over it again. The lethal dose of caffeine is in the grams (like a lot of grams) but id have to see if it could have been anything else. Remember this, DMAA + Caffeine can have a dramatic effect on BP, amd even more so when coupled with high exertion activities, but im not sure you could get anywhere near a lethal dose of caffeine in one product without getting a huge whack of DMAA.

Ill read it again now
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Yeah caffeine is in the high-ish gram area for lethal dose (this also depends HIGHLY on your body's personal caffeine metabolism). I just never saw anyone die or have major complications of any kind from using a product like Jack3d responsibly is what I think I was getting at. Also, when you think about the fact that alcohol kills thousands and thousands of people every year and it is still 100% legal you start to really question the FDA
 
The FDA confirmed that at least one lot contained fluoxetine, aka the main ingredient in Prozac
 
Tiocfaidh said:
slow your roll. he said they spiked oxyelite pro with prozac, which is untrue. so i said stop spreading rumors.
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Ooohhh my bad. Thought the first sentence was connected to the second.

In which case, I agree.
 
5 Hour energy has 13 deaths associated with it and countless number of adverse events. That doesn't prove causation however and it doesnt mean 5-hour energy is not safe. Who knows what the stats are on Monster and Red-Bull and im sure they are all way more than DMAA and they are still on the shelves.

But it just goes to show that these witch hunts are usually unfair and unjust, and are usually not even about safety and more so about political propaganda.
 
Duywayne said:
5 Hour energy has 13 deaths associated with it and countless number of adverse events. That doesn't prove causation however and it doesnt mean 5-hour energy is not safe. Who knows what the stats are on Monster and Red-Bull and im sure they are all way more than DMAA and they are still on the shelves.

But it just goes to show that these witch hunts are usually unfair and unjust, and are usually not even about safety and more so about political propaganda.
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How can you be sure red bull and monster have more deaths when you havent read the stats?

not so sure Red Bull has a high death rate considering its fairly conservative amount of caffeine in comparison to most pre workouts, and the fact that it now utilises far larger can sizes (something that would have been immediately removed had it had 13 deaths associated to its name), AND considering the safety data on caffeine for levels far in excess of those used.

Its main problems stem from when people combine it with alcohol.
 
Duywayne said:
5 Hour energy has 13 deaths associated with it and countless number of adverse events. That doesn't prove causation however and it doesnt mean 5-hour energy is not safe. Who knows what the stats are on Monster and Red-Bull and im sure they are all way more than DMAA and they are still on the shelves.

But it just goes to show that these witch hunts are usually unfair and unjust, and are usually not even about safety and more so about political propaganda.
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How many 5-Hour Energy bottles caused these 13 deaths? I actually really like 5-Hour Energy.
 
Jiigzz said:
How can you be sure red bull and monster have more deaths when you havent read the stats?

not so sure Red Bull has a high death rate considering its fairly conservative amount of caffeine in comparison to most pre workouts, and the fact that it now utilises far larger can sizes (something that would have been immediately removed had it had 13 deaths associated to its name), AND considering the safety data on caffeine for levels far in excess of those used.

Its main problems stem from when people combine it with alcohol.
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You are right - I dont know the stats on Redbull and Monster.

However 5-Hour has had a lot of press on it:

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