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D-Zine Help Please

prslespaul

New member
First post here, wondering if you guys could help me out. I did a D-Zine cycle, which is my second cycle, Tren being my first. My cycle consisted of:

D-Zine 30/30/30/45
Formestane: 100/100/100/100

I had great gains, put on about 15lbs and a good 50 lbs to my bench and squat. I had no problems, no sides and great libido.
I am now at the end of my PCT which is:

Nolva: 40/20/20/10

I have 3 huge concerns and questions.

1. I have lost literally all my gains besides 4-5 lbs. Why was so much lost?
2. My left nipple is a little tender to the touch not really puffy, but tender. I thought Nolva should combat against any gyno concerns?
3. During my PCT my libido has completely crashed. I can get hard, but the desire to have sex is not there at all.


I am planning on starting up a superdrol cycle sometime next month, but i want to make sure a.theres no rebound after this nolva and b. I can prevent losing my gains. I have read of people stacking some sort of OTC PCT with nolva. What would you guys consider doing in my situation? Thanks for any advice!
 
prslespaul said:
First post here, wondering if you guys could help me out. I did a D-Zine cycle, which is my second cycle, Tren being my first. My cycle consisted of:

D-Zine 30/30/30/45
Formestane: 100/100/100/100

I had great gains, put on about 15lbs and a good 50 lbs to my bench and squat. I had no problems, no sides and great libido.
I am now at the end of my PCT which is:

Nolva: 40/20/20/10

I have 3 huge concerns and questions.

1. I have lost literally all my gains besides 4-5 lbs. Why was so much lost?
2. My left nipple is a little tender to the touch not really puffy, but tender. I thought Nolva should combat against any gyno concerns?
3. During my PCT my libido has completely crashed. I can get hard, but the desire to have sex is not there at all.


I am planning on starting up a superdrol cycle sometime next month, but i want to make sure a.theres no rebound after this nolva and b. I can prevent losing my gains. I have read of people stacking some sort of OTC PCT with nolva. What would you guys consider doing in my situation? Thanks for any advice!
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I'd suggest waiting on the next cycle.
 
Get yourself a natty test booster for now and maybe some epi for that gyno, Epi is the only thing so far that works for me, if that doesnt work maybe a suicide inhibitor like exemestane and taper off
 
ward5742 said:
Get yourself a natty test booster for now and maybe some epi for that gyno, Epi is the only thing so far that works for me,
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I would not suggest using an androgenic steroid for AI purposes..chances are it may aggravate gyno rather than reduce it.

if that doesnt work maybe a suicide inhibitor like exemestane and taper off
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agreed.

And OP should not be looking into another cycle until he finds a solution to the irritation; Nolva should be working.
 
Bry17 said:
I would not suggest using an androgenic steroid for AI purposes..chances are it may aggravate gyno rather than reduce it.
epi is used for gyno it was a medicine for female breast cancer. Wouldnt do the same as any other a.i

agreed.

And OP should not be looking into another cycle until he finds a solution to the irritation; Nolva should be working.
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Using epi would be just fine.. Epistane was used as medicine to treat Femalebreast cancer just as any other a.i is
 
ward5742 said:
Using epi would be just fine.. Epistane was used as medicine to treat Femalebreast cancer just as any other a.i is
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Wrong.

Epitiostane is/was clinically used as an anti-estrogen. This is 17a-epitiostane. The 17a changes everything; It is assumed that they will work similarly, but there is no evidence of this.
 
I'm going to wait a week or so because I'm done with my Nolva and see if my libido comes back.

As far as the gyno, only one nipple slightly sore to the touch no bumps or anything. The Tren i took actually gave me gyno and bumps but it went away after my nolva but not completely. That's kind of why I took Formestane with this d-zine cycle, and while on the cycle, the gyno went away completely.

Another thing I want to say is some days my nipple isn't sore, and some days it is? Do you think its because my natural hormone levels are working their way back in?

After I wait this week out, and if nothing improves, I am going to try a AI to farther fight the tenderness and hopefully up my natural levels. I was looking at Inhibit-E, but i have been reading it is suppressive and wont help my libido? I wanted to try 6-oxo as it isn't suppressive but its overpriced now days. Or do you guys think I should just bypass all the OTC and try a light cycle of letro?
 
prslespaul said:
I'm going to wait a week or so because I'm done with my Nolva and see if my libido comes back.

As far as the gyno, only one nipple slightly sore to the touch no bumps or anything. The Tren i took actually gave me gyno and bumps but it went away after my nolva but not completely. That's kind of why I took Formestane with this d-zine cycle, and while on the cycle, the gyno went away completely.

Another thing I want to say is some days my nipple isn't sore, and some days it is? Do you think its because my natural hormone levels are working their way back in?
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I dunno.
After I wait this week out, and if nothing improves, I am going to try a AI to farther fight the tenderness and hopefully up my natural levels. I was looking at Inhibit-E, but i have been reading it is suppressive and wont help my libido? I wanted to try 6-oxo as it isn't suppressive but its overpriced now days. Or do you guys think I should just bypass all the OTC and try a light cycle of letro?
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Inhibit-e is not suppressive. It is not exactly libido friendly, but DAA can counter it. ATD binds tightly to the AE. Try it or use some letro.
 
Bry17 said:
Wrong.

Epitiostane is/was clinically used as an anti-estrogen. This is 17a-epitiostane. The 17a changes everything; It is assumed that they will work similarly, but there is no evidence of this.
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Umm incorrect the 17a methyl version just makes it longer acting and more potent. And its epitiostanol. Add a 17a methyl to Epitiostanol you get Epistane.
Epitiostanol/Thiodrol is a drug used for treating breast cancer that the NCI database lists as being a potent estrogen antagonist and and androgen agonist as well as a very strong anabolic.

NCI's biological activity spectrum predictions list Epitiostanol as being a stronger estrogen antagonist than Tamoxifen (nolvadex) and even a mild aromatase inhibitor.
 
ward5742 said:
Umm incorrect the 17a methyl version just makes it longer acting and more potent. And its epitiostanol. Add a 17a methyl to Epitiostanol you get Epistane.
Epitiostanol/Thiodrol is a drug used for treating breast cancer that the NCI database lists as being a potent estrogen antagonist and and androgen agonist as well as a very strong anabolic.

NCI's biological activity spectrum predictions list Epitiostanol as being a stronger estrogen antagonist than Tamoxifen (nolvadex) and even a mild aromatase inhibitor.
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Wrong again.

The 17a doesn't "just make it longer acting and more potent." It increases hepatotoxicity, changes the reduction and/or aromatization to 17-methyl forms of DHT and e2 in steroids that are prone to 5a-reduction/aromatization, and changes the A/A ratio considerably in almost all anabolic steroids.

Epi's AA ratio was determined (by weighing the ventral prostate and levator ani muscles of rats) to be nearly as strong as Phera's, with respect to their androgenic differences. Around 1100/100. <---That's high, and I doubt it works like epitiostanol in regards to Anti-estrogen activity given all these differences.

As I said, until you can show me a study that uses 17aa-epitiostanol as a successful anti-estrogen, I refuse to believe it exerts these effects.
 
Bry17 said:
Wrong again.

The 17a doesn't "just make it longer acting and more potent." It increases hepatotoxicity, changes the reduction and/or aromatization to 17-methyl forms of DHT and e2 in steroids that are prone to 5a-reduction/aromatization, and changes the A/A ratio considerably in almost all anabolic steroids.

I'd bet money the female breast cancer drug has much less anabolic and androgenic activity compared to injectable testosterone and not to mention Havoc. (epitiostanol is injected, whereas epistane is taken orally) Epi's AA ratio was determined (by weighing the ventral prostate and levator ani muscles of rats) to be nearly as strong as Phera's, with respect to their androgenic differences. Around 1100/100. <---That's high, and I doubt it works like epitiostanol in regards to Anti-estrogen activity given all these differences.

As I said, until you can show me a study that uses 17aa-epitiostanol as a successful anti-estrogen, I refuse to believe it exerts these effects.
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Ok Dr. Phil I'm not gonna sit here and argue with you.
 
A great example of how methlyation changes a compound is comparing 1,4-AD (boldione) to M,1,4-AD. As far as effect/results go, the 17a version is completely different than the non 17a version.
 
hagels316 said:
A great example of how methlyation changes a compound is comparing 1,4-AD (boldione) to M,1,4-AD. As far as effect/results go, the 17a version is completely different than the non 17a version.
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Well, actually M14ADD is 17a-boldiol not 17a-boldione. Different prohormones.
 
hagels316 said:
A great example of how methlyation changes a compound is comparing 1,4-AD (boldione) to M,1,4-AD. As far as effect/results go, the 17a version is completely different than the non 17a version.
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I think you meant to reference the difference between boldenone undecylenate and d-bol. Very similar chemically besides dbol being methylated.
 
i wouldnt use another PH to clear up gyno as it will shut your test down.

30/30/45/45 will supress you pretty hard but peopel do it all the time. maybe you would have done better with clomid and low dose nolva or torem?
 
Okay i gave it a few days, nothing really has progressed as far as my gyno. Everything seems to be the same as it was a few days ago, and my libido is still not here what so ever. I almost feel depressed too, and my confidence is down. I ordered some Inhibit-E as it is supposed to raise my natty test levels. According to what I have read, rebound estrogen is caused not from having "too much" estrogen but by having low natural testosterone. Does anyone think it will help me? Thanks guys!
 
prslespaul said:
Okay i gave it a few days, nothing really has progressed as far as my gyno. Everything seems to be the same as it was a few days ago, and my libido is still not here what so ever. I almost feel depressed too, and my confidence is down. I ordered some Inhibit-E as it is supposed to raise my natty test levels. According to what I have read, rebound estrogen is caused not from having "too much" estrogen but by having low natural testosterone. Does anyone think it will help me? Thanks guys!
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It will only help if the lump has not 'matured' yet to gyno per se. If it's still in the irritation stages, then yes it will help.
 
Bry17 said:
It will only help if the lump has not 'matured' yet to gyno per se. If it's still in the irritation stages, then yes it will help.
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how do you know when its matured? I tried to combat a gyno flare with letro and got a bad rebound. And now i got lil bumps with irratation. but im waiting before i go for round two to make sure i have what i need. thanks
 
SweetLou321 said:
how do you know when its matured? I tried to combat a gyno flare with letro and got a bad rebound. And now i got lil bumps with irratation. but im waiting before i go for round two to make sure i have what i need. thanks
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Stage 1: Preadolescent; only papillae are elevated.
Stage 2: Breast bud and papilla are elevated and a small mount is present; areola diameter is enlarged.
Stage 3: Further enlargement of breast mound; increased palpable glandular tissue.
Stage 4: Areola and papilla are elevated to form a second mound above the level of the rest of the breast.
Stage 5: Adult mature breast; recession of areola to the mound of breast tissue, rounding of the breast mound,
and projection of only the papilla are evident.

Invalid Link Removed

Stage 2 refers to the lump. After stage 3 is when I think it goes beyond using supplements, anti-estrogens, and SERMS.

^Keep in mind though, this is pubertal gyno. Steroid induced gyno and pubertal are not necessarily the same, but they can be similar.
 
ahh ok, well then i will try to get some letro asap, since i now have nolva for after letro. Try to cut this off early as it will take my doctor ages to do anything about it.
 
SweetLou321 said:
ahh ok, well then i will try to get some letro asap, since i now have nolva for after letro. Try to cut this off early as it will take my doctor ages to do anything about it.
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Letro and Nolva should do the trick, but if it's in late stages you'll definitely need doctor's assistance or surgery. I hope it doesn't get worse bud. Sorry.
 
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