Cycles without testosterone

Smont

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Lucky SOB. I love methylated PH, but my liver enzymes go nutz. I was able to get them 100% back to normal, but it took 6-12 months to get them all the way back after too many cycles too fast in ~3 years. Would love to know why my liver enzymes go out of whack, pee turns orange.. others it seems it barely moves their levels in bloods. Another thread I suppose.
Idk man, I'd say your more unlucky then I am lucky. Most ppl don't have much of a problem. I'm wondering if there's some underlying issues?
 
Whisky

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Idk man, I'd say your more unlucky then I am lucky. Most ppl don't have much of a problem. I'm wondering if there's some underlying issues?
I definitely think some people are just able to deal with anything they throw at the body (to an extent) whereas others just can’t. I saw this first hand with alcohol and recreational drugs. I really hammered my body for years and years and it was only after years of 1.5 litres of vodka a day that I got to the first signs of liver problems - stopped and 6 months later was like I’d never drunk. Likewise with cocaine, seemed to be able to handle crazy amounts and recover.

but I knew a lot of people who simply couldn’t handle the booze or drugs and would either pass out or throw up early. I knew a couple of alcoholics who died from liver failure and neither of them was drinking more than 1 litre of spirits a day.

I always liked my ability to handle this stuff when I was younger but as I matured I realised it’s a terrible thing. All this stuff is toxic and our bodies rejecting it at a higher volume is a good thing. It ultimately prevents longer term irreversible damage in many cases. It certainly costs less financially and I’ve almost lost everything important to me through addiction so I look back and wish I didn’t have a tolerance.

it’s why I’m careful with aas - I’m side tolerant but I know it’s stupid to take more just because I can handle it......
 
Smont

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I definitely think some people are just able to deal with anything they throw at the body (to an extent) whereas others just can’t. I saw this first hand with alcohol and recreational drugs. I really hammered my body for years and years and it was only after years of 1.5 litres of vodka a day that I got to the first signs of liver problems - stopped and 6 months later was like I’d never drunk. Likewise with cocaine, seemed to be able to handle crazy amounts and recover.

but I knew a lot of people who simply couldn’t handle the booze or drugs and would either pass out or throw up early. I knew a couple of alcoholics who died from liver failure and neither of them was drinking more than 1 litre of spirits a day.

I always liked my ability to handle this stuff when I was younger but as I matured I realised it’s a terrible thing. All this stuff is toxic and our bodies rejecting it at a higher volume is a good thing. It ultimately prevents longer term irreversible damage in many cases. It certainly costs less financially and I’ve almost lost everything important to me through addiction so I look back and wish I didn’t have a tolerance.

it’s why I’m careful with aas - I’m side tolerant but I know it’s stupid to take more just because I can handle it......
You sound exactly like me. I use to think it was cool that I could drink insane amounts of booze and function. I blew a .39 once and was completely coherent. I have a thing on the wall at the bar I use to hang out at for most shots drank in a hour.

Now I just realize that all those things just mean I'm the biggest lush in the room. Pain meds, they don't work on me, I have to take like 10x the dose for them to work and it's more likely that I'll get sick before the pain goes away so I don't mess with those.

Now all that being said, I needed a extream amount of things for them to effect me like most ppl would at a quarter of the dose. And I have a similar issue with oral steroids. Even tho they don't mess up my bloodwork, I need twice as much for them to work. Even tho it might not show on bloodwork at the moment. I know long term that I shouldn't keep taking a bunch of stuff. I need to get my ass back in shape and just maintain there instead constantly changing goals and putting myself through all these ups and downs
 
PoSiTiVeFLoW

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Idk man, I'd say your more unlucky then I am lucky. Most ppl don't have much of a problem. I'm wondering if there's some underlying issues?
Funny thing a) no allergies b) air Force honor grad c) most men in my line made it late 80-upper 90s. d).bloodwork generally has been great (sans the 2018 seizure benzo withdrawal episode) but all return to normal and 💯 now anyway.

I do just have slightly poor luck with methyl group PH/roid.. so I need other transport mechanisms to get my androgens in there.. I'm feeling greatom the Andros though so far

And I can, I did.. love me some DMZ, Sdrol, even tried some YK11 briefly that seemed promising we know now lol. just stupid ALT/AST goes triple digits and stayed elevated, even with a lot of TUDCA and NAC when they throw in CH3.

Medical flipside, my liver GGT levels were actually pretty good in the end. So despite the up/down and rising level AST/ALT levels.. from cycling too often these lovely methyl muscle builders.. I didn't incur major long term damage (GGT) and post seizure, I had specialist docs (Endo, liver, kidney, internal medicine) tracking until it was all good again. Meaning, depsite ALT/AST stress indicators going up, my total damage was low.

Why I mention my line benzo withdrawl grandmal seizure in '18, is that basically fired all my muscles so much and caused internal toxin issues compound by out of control drug use at the time (beyond lifting and gear of course). I was one of those highly functioning addicts, sigh.

So yeah you are right probably blown out of proportion. Even if your enzymes go nuts, track all three, take breaks...

EDIT - now shopping for nanodrol and Sdrol, lol.

Going to start Body Beast back disc here in a few min. Time to pop the Andros and get a snack, some Fullblitz, brb.

Also, aside from Sagi, started to listen to John Meadow's a bit -
 
Smont

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Funny thing a) no allergies b) air Force honor grad c) most men in my line made it late 80-upper 90s. d).bloodwork generally has been great (sans the 2018 seizure benzo withdrawal episode) but all return to normal and now anyway.

I do just have slightly poor luck with methyl group PH/roid.. so I need other transport mechanisms to get my androgens in there.. I'm feeling greatom the Andros though so far

And I can, I did.. love me some DMZ, Sdrol, even tried some YK11 briefly that seemed promising we know now lol. just stupid ALT/AST goes triple digits and stayed elevated, even with a lot of TUDCA and NAC when they throw in CH3.

Medical flipside, my liver GGT levels were actually pretty good in the end. So despite the up/down and rising level AST/ALT levels.. from cycling too often these lovely methyl muscle builders.. I didn't incur major long term damage (GGT) and post seizure, I had specialist docs (Endo, liver, kidney, internal medicine) tracking until it was all good again. Meaning, depsite ALT/AST stress indicators going up, my total damage was low.

Why I mention my line benzo withdrawl grandmal seizure in '18, is that basically fired all my muscles so much and caused internal toxin issues compound by out of control drug use at the time (beyond lifting and gear of course). I was one of those highly functioning addicts, sigh.

So yeah you are right probably blown out of proportion. Even if your enzymes go nuts, track all three, take breaks...

EDIT - now shopping for nanodrol and Sdrol, lol.

Going to start Body Beast back disc here in a few min. Time to pop the Andros and get a snack, some Fullblitz, brb.

Also, aside from Sagi, started to listen to John Meadow's a bit -
So, a couple things you could try.

Obviously injectable testosterone, but aside from that, high dose sarms can have similar results to oral steroids. Lgd and s23 excluded as there going to elevate liver enzymes at the 20+ mg range. But rad 140 is looking pretty safe up to 50mg a day. I believe even up to 100mg was well tolerated in human trials so that's sounding promising but also very expensive. Apex alchemy has synergen, it's a transdermal dienolone/epiandro that should be not liver toxic at all, I'm using that now. And possibly if you could score real anavar. It's just a little risky as it's often faked, underdosed or substitute for low doses of dbol or anadrol labeled as anavar
 
Smont

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Funny thing a) no allergies b) air Force honor grad c) most men in my line made it late 80-upper 90s. d).bloodwork generally has been great (sans the 2018 seizure benzo withdrawal episode) but all return to normal and now anyway.

I do just have slightly poor luck with methyl group PH/roid.. so I need other transport mechanisms to get my androgens in there.. I'm feeling greatom the Andros though so far

And I can, I did.. love me some DMZ, Sdrol, even tried some YK11 briefly that seemed promising we know now lol. just stupid ALT/AST goes triple digits and stayed elevated, even with a lot of TUDCA and NAC when they throw in CH3.

Medical flipside, my liver GGT levels were actually pretty good in the end. So despite the up/down and rising level AST/ALT levels.. from cycling too often these lovely methyl muscle builders.. I didn't incur major long term damage (GGT) and post seizure, I had specialist docs (Endo, liver, kidney, internal medicine) tracking until it was all good again. Meaning, depsite ALT/AST stress indicators going up, my total damage was low.

Why I mention my line benzo withdrawl grandmal seizure in '18, is that basically fired all my muscles so much and caused internal toxin issues compound by out of control drug use at the time (beyond lifting and gear of course). I was one of those highly functioning addicts, sigh.

So yeah you are right probably blown out of proportion. Even if your enzymes go nuts, track all three, take breaks...

EDIT - now shopping for nanodrol and Sdrol, lol.

Going to start Body Beast back disc here in a few min. Time to pop the Andros and get a snack, some Fullblitz, brb.

Also, aside from Sagi, started to listen to John Meadow's a bit -
I know who meadows is but who is sagi?
 

bigdadybry

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Haven't read through all this yet, but at the bare bones as I recall in the olden days, guys would pair an androgen with an anabolic, oral with an injectable, basic stuff like that. Anadrol with Deca, test cyp with d-bol, for example. The thought process wasn't a "test base" like it is now. Test suspension was not easy to come by for most and most people didn't like pinning multiple times per week to use it.

I'll give you another thought process back in the day. "Fat" was bad, so bad that in the cutting phase before a show, it was avoided like the plague. I recall Shawn Ray and his training partner ordering 15-20 boxes of cooked chicken breasts at a china bowl place next to the gym where we trained. When they opened the boxes, they realized they were dark meat and gave it to me and my friends. We were starving high school kids, ate it all. :)
 
Smont

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Haven't read through all this yet, but at the bare bones as I recall in the olden days, guys would pair an androgen with an anabolic, oral with an injectable, basic stuff like that. Anadrol with Deca, test cyp with d-bol, for example. The thought process wasn't a "test base" like it is now. Test suspension was not easy to come by for most and most people didn't like pinning multiple times per week to use it.

I'll give you another thought process back in the day. "Fat" was bad, so bad that in the cutting phase before a show, it was avoided like the plague. I recall Shawn Ray and his training partner ordering 15-20 boxes of cooked chicken breasts at a china bowl place next to the gym where we trained. When they opened the boxes, they realized they were dark meat and gave it to me and my friends. We were starving high school kids, ate it all. :)
You're right about the diet, it was low fat, moderate carb to high carb and high protein.

And they were always in shape. Now we got all these tards saying carbs make you fat.

I have friends that swear keto is the only way to get in shape. Il be on my lunch break dieting on 500 calories from chicken breast, lentil pasta and some grapes and the fat guy next to me " I'm fat at the moment so I shouldn't be saying that lol" but he's eating 800+ calories from cheese, salami and stuffed peppers marinated in oil telling me I'm gonna get fat eating that lentil pasta
 

bigdadybry

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You're right about the diet, it was low fat, moderate carb to high carb and high protein.

And they were always in shape. Now we got all these tards saying carbs make you fat.

I have friends that swear keto is the only way to get in shape. Il be on my lunch break dieting on 500 calories from chicken breast, lentil pasta and some grapes and the fat guy next to me " I'm fat at the moment so I shouldn't be saying that lol" but he's eating 800+ calories from cheese, salami and stuffed peppers marinated in oil telling me I'm gonna get fat eating that lentil pasta
That's hilarious. While at the local community college in the 90s, I came across my first vegetarian. A fat dude eating a Snickers.
 
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bigdadybry

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Completely off-topic, but the first time I dieted it was following the low fat approach. I found I had to keep dropping calories or increasing cardio to keep losing "weight". It was after that experience I realized my body will not lose body fat without fat intake in the absence of drastically reducing calories or increasing exercise output. About 5 years later, Atkins hit the mainstream.

On another related off-topic note, my kids have preferences for whey protein powder flavors. I wish I could get the unflavored crap I used to plug my nose to and drink as fast as possible. I'd say to them "drink this tough guy".
 
Smont

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Since we're off topic, who has a lot of experience with mk677, I've used it a few different ways and get similar results but I was wondering. You get a big spike after taking it. So a lot of guys take it before bed. But why not take it pre workout so that big spike is present during your workouts and do a intra workout supplement with eaa's and simple carbs? I've seen guys use that approach with gh in a growth phase so why not with mk?
 
ValiantThor08

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Since we're off topic, who has a lot of experience with mk677, I've used it a few different ways and get similar results but I was wondering. You get a big spike after taking it. So a lot of guys take it before bed. But why not take it pre workout so that big spike is present during your workouts and do a intra workout supplement with eaa's and simple carbs? I've seen guys use that approach with gh in a growth phase so why not with mk?
I think the reason people do it before bed, or upon waking, is because of the half life. Technically, it should be able to produce larger pulses throughout the day because of a half life of maybe 6 hours. I think it would be optimal taken twice a day, before bed, and upon waking.
 
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I think the reason people do it before bed, or upon waking, is because of the half life. Technically, it should be able to produce larger pulses throughout the day because of a half life of maybe 6 hours. I think it would be optimal taken twice a day, before bed, and upon waking.
The half life is 4-6 hours, but igf levels stay elevated for over 24 hours, the increased igf is what where looking for so I don't really see a need to dose 2x a day. Using it every day, eod, 5 on 2 off. All those will give you similar igf levels.

But what I'm talking about it is using the big spike you get after injesting it for intra workout. Elevated igf 1 levels at there highest during your workouts if you take it pre workout
 

CroLifter

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The half life is 4-6 hours, but igf levels stay elevated for over 24 hours, the increased igf is what where looking for so I don't really see a need to dose 2x a day. Using it every day, eod, 5 on 2 off. All those will give you similar igf levels.

But what I'm talking about it is using the big spike you get after injesting it for intra workout. Elevated igf 1 levels at there highest during your workouts if you take it pre workout
I am not sure if it is capable of producing such a spike. You are talking of a big spike to really make a difference, similar to that of exogenous gh.

Why do you think it would have benefits if your igf1 was elevated right around the workout? Isnt the consistent elevation in igf1 what we want for recovery? In essence making when we take it meaningless (still avoiding carbs with it so pre bed or early in the morning and waiting with breakfast).

Btw the increase in igf is real. I used to get much better pumps when i was 16 years old. Both mk677 and AAS bring back those pumps, it is awesome!

Mk677 really brings back the memories of my teens. Being able to workout for hour and half, hike in the woods and wake up the next day feeling fine. Some of this ped stuff is seriously amazing.
 
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Smont

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I am not sure if it is capable of producing such a spike. You are talking of a big spike, similar to that of exogenous gh.
I'm not saying it will work, I'm wondering. The igf1 elevation from mk is on par with 2-3iu of gh according the bloods I've seen. If the initial spike from mk is the highest which I believe it is, I don't see how it would be different then 2-3 iu of gh taken pre workout.

So in theory It would make sense. Again, I'm not saying I'm right, I have absolutely no clue. I just don't see why it would be different if the igf 1 elevations are present
 

CroLifter

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I'm not saying it will work, I'm wondering. The igf1 elevation from mk is on par with 2-3iu of gh according the bloods I've seen. If the initial spike from mk is the highest which I believe it is, I don't see how it would be different then 2-3 iu of gh taken pre workout.

So in theory It would make sense. Again, I'm not saying I'm right, I have absolutely no clue. I just don't see why it would be different if the igf 1 elevations are present
I am also not sure, simply contemplating.

All in all, mk677 is awesome for sure. I guess gh must be amazing too.

Will be running mk, test and var soon for a shortish cycle. Only used mk so far in conjuction with 100mg of test, so we will see how it stacks with a low-moderate dose cycle.



How long is the half life of natural igf1? Perhaps mk would produce a bigger "area under the curve" igf1 response than 2-3 iu gh since it continuosly promotes gh secretion unlike a single burst from exo hgh.

In theory we are capable of producing massive amounts of hgh naturally, unlike aas. Look at people with gigantism.
 
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Smont

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After just doing a quick look around, no in-depth reading but I will read them all later. It looks like you can get a igf 1 increase by 70.1% - 30.6% between 30min and 480min post injesting and levels stay elevated for for approximately 24 hrs. So that initial spike is quite a bit and should put you into supraphysiological numbers.

This is just going off of me glancing at a couple papers. I need to spend a lot of time reading as I don't know details and variables. And I'm not that smart with this stuff so I usually need to read everything a few times in depth
 

bigdadybry

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Smont, what you're stating regarding timing/maximizing the benefits of MK677 reminds me of the approach to using GH a few decades ago. Insulin was added to the cocktail to improve performance.
No first hand knowledge or experience, just old man memory.
 
Smont

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Smont, what you're stating regarding timing/maximizing the benefits of MK677 reminds me of the approach to using GH a few decades ago. Insulin was added to the cocktail to improve performance.
No first hand knowledge or experience, just old man memory.
That's what I'm thinking of. Trying to get that gh/insulin response without using actual gh or slin.

Again I'm goingto say this because someone will always chime and and be like, no you're wrong you can't do it! I don't know

I'm just thinking the gh/igf spike from the mk, intra workout feed that with fast carbs like glucose syrup and some eaa's. Get a lesser version of the gh/slin around workouts
 

bigdadybry

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My recollection at the time, and to frame the time we're talking about when synthetic GH was hitting the market vs the cadaver based version that fucked up Lyle Alzado, bodybuilder's initial response to the exogenous GH was less than expected. It was the addition of the insulin that produced better results. The initial reaction was either the soma/huma was fake or the person was a GH non-responder.

In other words, your thought process is similar. You have experience with the MK, know what it does for you. Adjusting diet/feeding to augment the results sounds like a good experiment.
 
Smont

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My recollection at the time, and to frame the time we're talking about when synthetic GH was hitting the market vs the cadaver based version that fucked up Lyle Alzado, bodybuilder's initial response to the exogenous GH was less than expected. It was the addition of the insulin that produced better results. The initial reaction was either the soma/huma was fake or the person was a GH non-responder.

In other words, your thought process is similar. You have experience with the MK, know what it does for you. Adjusting diet/feeding to augment the results sounds like a good experiment.
Going to give it a try tomorrow on arm day. Going to take a pre workout with 12.5mg mk 20min pre workout

Intra workout 14gm eaa's and 30 gram fast carbs.

See how that goes.

Next time il do the same with 25mg mk.

Basically going to judge it on the pump. But will continue to use it every other day for the rest of the month. I got a little hernia or something going on right now so pump type stuff is basically all I'm doing for a while
 
Smont

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Going to give it a try tomorrow on arm day. Going to take a pre workout with 12.5mg mk 20min pre workout

Intra workout 14gm eaa's and 30 gram fast carbs.

See how that goes.

Next time il do the same with 25mg mk.

Basically going to judge it on the pump. But will continue to use it every other day for the rest of the month. I got a little hernia or something going on right now so pump type stuff is basically all I'm doing for a while
So I tried this out yesterday, got a sick pump. That's all I can say about it tho. I also went higher then normal on reps so that could play a role. I'm gonna stick with using this approach for a while EOD and see if anything comes from it, I mean I don't see what it could hurt so why not
 
Smont

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Il take a pic after every arm workout for the next month or Soo. At the end il post a couple to see the changes
1590970741675~3.jpeg
 
Smont

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And I'm aware that one of my nipples is higher then the other lol
 
Jinsun

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Ya, I'm thinking that testosterone was getting low, which means estrogen is lower and then the dht killing what ever little estrogen is being produced.
Dht's like proviron also outcompet e2 at the receptor. Don't know how much this holds true for other dht's. But i know gyno can be a problem with low dht and as low as 40 - 60 e2. But the same probably wont be true if you have high dht
 
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Dht's like proviron also outcompet e2 at the receptor. Don't know how much this holds true for other dht's. But i know gyno can be a problem with low dht and as low as 40 - 60 e2. But the same probably wont be true if you have high dht
I get what your saying, but I don't remember what the original question or post I was responding to in the post of mine that you quoted lol so I'm a little lost. Gonna go read back a few pages.

On a side note. I read some stuff yesterday about winny competing with estrogen receptors and it having a ability to stop prolactin sides. Il try to go find it again and post it, was interesting. There was also some old logs where ppl used winny EOD to combat the prolactin from tren!?
 
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I get what your saying, but I don't remember what the original question or post I was responding to in the post of mine that you quoted lol so I'm a little lost. Gonna go read back a few pages.
I don't know either. Basically the only post I've read in the whole thread and just clicked reply ... : D

On a side note. I read some stuff yesterday about winny competing with estrogen receptors and it having a ability to stop prolactin sides. Il try to go find it again and post it, was interesting. There was also some old logs where ppl used winny EOD to combat the prolactin from tren!?
Nojs. Please do. And yeah, this is what I was talking about. Low androgens contribute to gyno.
 

bigdadybry

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I'll am interested in your results Smont and will be watching for updates. I am considering this compound, but in a different approach. I have been "daily carb averse" for 10+ years and it has served me extremely well. I am considering a small training-day-only carb add, but would do split doses with the MK (evening and morning of training with carbs). Because I weight train almost daily, it would eliminate my 3 cheat days/month (I'll call them "carb loading days"). It would be an interesting test that I would re-evaluate after 4 weeks.
 
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I'll am interested in your results Smont and will be watching for updates. I am considering this compound, but in a different approach. I have been "daily carb averse" for 10+ years and it has served me extremely well. I am considering a small training-day-only carb add, but would do split doses with the MK (evening and morning of training with carbs). Because I weight train almost daily, it would eliminate my 3 cheat days/month (I'll call them "carb loading days"). It would be an interesting test that I would re-evaluate after 4 weeks.
Il give a update after a couple weeks on what happens.
 
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I'll am interested in your results Smont and will be watching for updates. I am considering this compound, but in a different approach. I have been "daily carb averse" for 10+ years and it has served me extremely well. I am considering a small training-day-only carb add, but would do split doses with the MK (evening and morning of training with carbs). Because I weight train almost daily, it would eliminate my 3 cheat days/month (I'll call them "carb loading days"). It would be an interesting test that I would re-evaluate after 4 weeks.
Sounds like a lot of keto athletes or guys who can get lean enough do better with a targeted keto approach periWO vs straight keto or cyclical keto. As long as you don’t eat more carbs preWO/intra than you can burn through, you’ll move right back into ketosis.
 
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Sounds like a lot of keto athletes or guys who can get lean enough do better with a targeted keto approach periWO vs straight keto or cyclical keto. As long as you don’t eat more carbs preWO/intra than you can burn through, you’ll move right back into ketosis.
Haribo brand goldbears gummy bears.

There made from glucose syrup, 100gi. eat those intra workout and they should immediately be burned as energy
 
Smont

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Haribo brand goldbears gummy bears.

There made from glucose syrup, 100gi. eat those intra workout and they should immediately be burned as energy
Or sucked up into glycogen stores
 

bigdadybry

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Sounds like a lot of keto athletes or guys who can get lean enough do better with a targeted keto approach periWO vs straight keto or cyclical keto. As long as you don’t eat more carbs preWO/intra than you can burn through, you’ll move right back into ketosis.
That's a good point. I could easily alter my WO routine to ensure that happens or finish with cardio. I currently employ more of a powerlifting 5x5 method. A cardio ending is a simple add-on.
 
Hyde

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That's a good point. I could easily alter my WO routine to ensure that happens or finish with cardio. I currently employ more of a powerlifting 5x5 method. A cardio ending is a simple add-on.
Doesn’t really have anything to do with cardio. You literally just need to only eat as many carbs as you can burn through. Squatting, swimming, sex, hiking. Activity is irrelevant as long as it uses the carbs up in a timely fashion.
 

bigdadybry

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Doesn’t really have anything to do with cardio. You literally just need to only eat as many carbs as you can burn through. Squatting, swimming, sex, hiking. Activity is irrelevant as long as it uses the carbs up in a timely fashion.
I understand. What I am getting at is my normal morning workout may not burn off enough. If so, I can supplement with additional activity that does not jeopardize my main goal. Because I have been doing this "diet" for over a decade, I can tell fairly easily when I am back in a state of ketosis. If I find there is a delay in returning to ketosis, I can alter my training to ensure a rapid return. In other words, I would target a set amount of carbs pre WO and adjust training as necessary. Make sense?
 
Hyde

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I understand. What I am getting at is my normal morning workout may not burn off enough. If so, I can supplement with additional activity that does not jeopardize my main goal. Because I have been doing this "diet" for over a decade, I can tell fairly easily when I am back in a state of ketosis. If I find there is a delay in returning to ketosis, I can alter my training to ensure a rapid return. In other words, I would target a set amount of carbs pre WO and adjust training as necessary. Make sense?
Sure, extra cardio is never a bad idea for longevity. My point is you can also just eat less carbs if you don’t want to modify anything. But if there’s a fixed meal you want to consume, extra activity would handle the bolus.
 

Iwilleattuna

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I honestly want to run EQ/ primo/ anavar. Guess we will see but seems like this would be a great no test stack however, I’m afraid to touch anything heavily hormonal ever again. Primo is so faked too lol

Maybe like 250 prim
250 eq
20-40 anavar
 
Hyde

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I honestly want to run EQ/ primo/ anavar. Guess we will see but seems like this would be a great no test stack however, I’m afraid to touch anything heavily hormonal ever again. Primo is so faked too lol

Maybe like 250 prim
250 eq
20-40 anavar
What about just trying eq and Var since you haven’t used any of them? Two new compounds at once is already a lot of variables for someone who has never completed a cycle.
 
Rad83

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@Iwilleattuna I think you could have a very successful ‘controlled, lean bulk’ before trying that stack....You’re already a pro at getting sliced, diced, ripped and peeled (So when you’re ready to peak, you’ve already got that skill)
 

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What about just trying eq and Var since you haven’t used any of them? Two new compounds at once is already a lot of variables for someone who has never completed a cycle.
That’s most likely what I’d prefer yo do since primo is HIGHLY FAKED

What’s a good dose of eq? Is 250 -400 an okay beginner dose ?

Have considered dhb but seems too risky with the pip issue
 

Iwilleattuna

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@Iwilleattuna I think you could have a very successful ‘controlled, lean bulk’ before trying that stack....You’re already a pro at getting sliced, diced, ripped and peeled (So when you’re ready to peak, you’ve already got that skill)
I say do both lol
 

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What do you guys notice from EQ ? I hear a ton of conflicting stuff
 
PoSiTiVeFLoW

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So, a couple things you could try.

Obviously injectable testosterone, but aside from that, high dose sarms can have similar results to oral steroids. Lgd and s23 excluded as there going to elevate liver enzymes at the 20+ mg range. But rad 140 is looking pretty safe up to 50mg a day. I believe even up to 100mg was well tolerated in human trials so that's sounding promising but also very expensive. Apex alchemy has synergen, it's a transdermal dienolone/epiandro that should be not liver toxic at all, I'm using that now. And possibly if you could score real anavar. It's just a little risky as it's often faked, underdosed or substitute for low doses of dbol or anadrol labeled as anavar
Thanks brother! Sorry for late reply thinking these Andros and variants are treating me nice (went with Hi-Tech lipsomal delivery lineup), but yeah RAD-140 I had a good run with before. Got to 9-10% and kept a lot of gains fr harsh cycle and I used it low dose. Maybe time to add that back in arsenal.
 
Smont

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What about just trying eq and Var since you haven’t used any of them? Two new compounds at once is already a lot of variables for someone who has never completed a cycle.
Hey tuna. You would want some estrogen in there, eq with no test has very very low estrogen conversation.

Because promo is often faked swap it for masteron.

Since I started this thread I've been thinking I'm going to do one of these around winter. My plan is eq with primo or masteron, most likely mast and a low dose dbol. My thinking is there will be plenty of anabolics, a low dose of 20mg dbol will provide the estrogen and masteron will provide the dht. Should cover everything needed for growth and sexual function.
 
Smont

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That’s most likely what I’d prefer yo do since primo is HIGHLY FAKED

What’s a good dose of eq? Is 250 -400 an okay beginner dose ?

Have considered dhb but seems too risky with the pip issue
Eq solo or with trt test I think more towards 600,

Stacked with a couple things 400 is probably good. Years ago I used eq often. Usually for longer cycles of 20 weeks. I would do stuff like this

Say test eq dbol

So 250 each for 4 weeks + dbol@20
250 test 500 eq for 4 weeks
375 test 625 eq for the remainder.

Next cycle I might use a different oral and run test higher to match the eq

Next time I may build up to 750 each.

But something really simple like 400 test 400 eq for 20 weeks could be a good place to test it out.
 

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