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Cycles without testosterone

Smont said:
Hey tuna. You would want some estrogen in there, eq with no test has very very low estrogen conversation.

Because promo is often faked swap it for masteron.

Since I started this thread I've been thinking I'm going to do one of these around winter. My plan is eq with primo or masteron, most likely mast and a low dose dbol. My thinking is there will be plenty of anabolics, a low dose of 20mg dbol will provide the estrogen and masteron will provide the dht. Should cover everything needed for growth and sexual function.
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It aromatizes to estrogen at about half the rate of testosterone. 400mg eq = 200mg test’s worth of estrogen. Plenty for decent function with little or no AI.

He’s never cycled successfully. I think it’s good for you to share experience, but just understand this is a complete hormonal newbie, and he’s hypogonadal with very low bodyfat. He doesn’t need a stack of compounds, or normal doses. Literally one or two things at a lower dose and he will explode.

This motherfucker could probably eat a 300mg DHEA with some AI and raise his calories by 500 and put on 6-10lbs of muscle in 6 weeks. More effective compounds & doses won’t really be needed because you can only grow so fast. Whatever that new transdermal product is that’s basically Dermacrine plus some 1AD, 8 weeks of that would do him solid.

400mg EQ solo would definitely put mass on him.
 
Hyde said:
It aromatizes to estrogen at about half the rate of testosterone. 400mg eq = 200mg test’s worth of estrogen. Plenty for decent function with little or no AI.

He’s never cycled successfully. I think it’s good for you to share experience, but just understand this is a complete hormonal newbie, and he’s hypogonadal with very low bodyfat. He doesn’t need a stack of compounds, or normal doses. Literally one or two things at a lower dose and he will explode.

This motherfucker could probably eat a 300mg DHEA with some AI and raise his calories by 500 and put on 6-10lbs of muscle in 6 weeks. More effective compounds & doses won’t really be needed because you can only grow so fast. Whatever that new transdermal product is that’s basically Dermacrine plus some 1AD, 8 weeks of that would do him solid.

400mg EQ solo would definitely put mass on him.
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I know about the aromatization rate on paper. But I've seen quite a few ppl talk about crashing there estrogen on eq when test wasn't in the picture. I haven't tried it solo myself. Years ago my uncle stopped trt and replaced it with double the dose of eq and after like 2 months he had estrogen well below the normal range.
 
I also completely forget he hasn't used any of these things, I agree. He could take something much simpler, but I was also entertaining his idea
 
Smont said:
@Iwilleattuna

What's going on with the Dr. Situation. Have they put you on hrt or figured out some kind of game plan yet. I can't remember what you said last time
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I told him and stand by that like 300mg test and he would make bigass gains while being easily managed. Going from test levels <100 to 1,000+ with his low bodyfat will make a ton of progress on its own. Nothing fancy would be needed. He knows how to train hard consistently, he’s lean, and if anything will undereat due to his fickle gut health. All lean gainz.
 
Hyde said:
I told him and stand by that like 300mg test and he would make bigass gains while being easily managed. Going from test levels QUOTE]If it wasn't for his stomach problem I'd say he probably falls in that small catagory of ppl who would benefit from some fast food a couple times a week
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@Smont the doctor was questionable so I dropped it. Too expensive. I learned how to balance my estrogen after that horrid Mdiaz experience on my own. It’s trial and error but he was pretty bad and most others won’t even help me. Eq would be perfect as @Hyde said

idk I’m still afraid to use anything but I think EQ and anavar would be great/ mild. Wish I used that over mdiaz.
Here’s my current physique

I’m thinking about taking @hydes advice and adding eq and var ASAP . Am enjoying my non hormonal stack so far though. Just added arimistane to my cardarine and Ep1logue w / cortibloc
 
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@Hyde I like the way you put that lmao. Fickle gut because my gut is pretty destroyed. I am able gain mass underrating though 🤷🏻‍♂️. I gained so much on a week and a half of that mdiaz but it felt like a lot of bloat
 
I’m feeling like I’m in a good position physique / hormonal wise to add something again though

I’ve considered halodrol but I’d rather just use the quality proven stuff
 
Hyde said:
I told him and stand by that like 300mg test and he would make bigass gains while being easily managed. Going from test levels <100 to 1,000+ with his low bodyfat will make a ton of progress on its own. Nothing fancy would be needed. He knows how to train hard consistently, he’s lean, and if anything will undereat due to his fickle gut health. All lean gainz.
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@Iwilleattuna , I agree with Hyde on this.
Rock that Test, and avoid the orals that are NOTORIOUSLY hard on the stomach.

+1
 
Hyde said:
I told him and stand by that like 300mg test and he would make bigass gains while being easily managed. Going from test levels QUOTE]

This!!!! @Iwilleattuna even when I cruise at 200 mg (a big jump for many trt numbers) the gains are surreal compared to what you are experiencing now. Keep is simple. You are dam young and it won’t take much. Remember, a trt dose is well beyond what you are experiencing. Embrace it!
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Iwilleattuna said:
thanks guys! But I was planning on doing EQ only instead of test
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But whyyyyy thooooooo? How do you know you won’t like test? It’s better for your hematocrit vs eq, you’re guaranteed to have a healthy amount of estrogen & sexual function, & it’s $40/vial.
 
Hyde said:
But whyyyyy thooooooo? How do you know you won’t like test? It’s better for your hematocrit vs eq, you’re guaranteed to have a healthy amount of estrogen & sexual function, & it’s $40/vial.
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i fucking love test. I don’t respond at all to it for muscle growth and fat loss but **** me I love feeling 18 again. 😂
 
Hyde said:
... & it’s $40/vial.
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Says who? 😆

Just brewed some test few days ago (200mg/ml) which reminded me how once you acquire the raws, how beautiful it is to not have to go online to look for sources. And you know it is cleeeaan.

Also, dat feel when you are cleaning up your cupboard and in the drawer you find unopened, still non-expired 0.22 um whatmans 😀
 
CroLifter said:
Says who?

Just brewed some test few days ago (200mg/ml) which reminded me how once you acquire the raws, how beautiful it is to not have to go online to look for sources. And you know it is cleeeaan.

Also, dat feel when you are cleaning up your cupboard and in the drawer you find unopened, still non-expired 0.22 um whatmans
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I've paid anywhere from $40-$100 per vial depending on the source/brand, local vs. Internet
 
Smont said:
I've paid anywhere from $40-$100 per vial depending on the source/brand, local vs. Internet
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**** me you need to be this side of the pond. My quality UGL is $27.51 for test (I converted it to dollar) and that’s standard. At most you might pay $35 off a guy in the gym who’s buying online and making a few quid himself.
 
Whisky said:
**** me you need to be this side of the pond. My quality UGL is $27.51 for test (I converted it to dollar) and that’s standard. At most you might pay $35 off a guy in the gym who’s buying online and making a few quid himself.
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Seemed like 35 is what I used to see it for stateside, but inflation’s a bitch. Still, $40 is the cost of a couple tickets to the movies here with popcorn & soda. Pretty affordable for the doses we’re talking about! Cheaper than most supplements.
 
Hyde said:
Seemed like 35 is what I used to see it for stateside, but inflation’s a bitch. Still, $40 is the cost of a couple tickets to the movies here with popcorn & soda. Pretty affordable for the doses we’re talking about! Cheaper than most supplements.
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cinema is fucking expensive these days......I remember when it was less than $5 a ticket easy.

but yeah test is cheap. To be fair so are most things. Tbol, primo, var and proviron being the exceptions and they aren’t crazy money
 
@Hyde I’m afraid to risk aromatization again. I’m obviously very sensitive to estrogen and estrogenic sides.

although eq apparently aromatizes, no one really complains of estrogenic sides on it. And eq converts to its own aromatase inhibitor

with a quick google search, you can look up equipoise and crashed estrogen . Some People post their blood work and crash their e2 using it. Very interesting .
 
Sorry I’m very intrigued about eq and another thing to note

People experience hunger on gw , so maybe increased hunger is a symptom that comes along with built endurance? Just a theory

anxiety - more oxygen and a hyperventilation feeling?

another thing to note is that I’ve read and heard of other experiences with vet grade eq and every who has ran vet grade claims that it doesn’t cause the weird sides ugl eq causes. Someone said this is due to more impurities than normal in eq due to it being a liquid at base form
 
Iwilleattuna said:
Sorry I’m very intrigued about eq and another thing to note

People experience hunger on gw , so maybe increased hunger is a symptom that comes along with built endurance? Just a theory

anxiety - more oxygen and a hyperventilation feeling?

another thing to note is that I’ve read and heard of other experiences with vet grade eq and every who has ran vet grade claims that it doesn’t cause the weird sides ugl eq causes. Someone said this is due to more impurities than normal in eq due to it being a liquid at base form
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You don’t want any estrogen at all you definitely need to stay away from steroids. You are hypogonadal. Any gains you make from a blast aren’t going to be maintainable later on without cruising...which means you will need test.

A lot of people who take GW are on a cut. Of course they are hungry. I have only ever used it on bulks and it has never made me hungry. And I can definitely tell it works because I can get a lot more done in a training session without dying when I take it. It works acutely like ephedrine; you don’t need to build up a dosage.

That anxiety thing sounds like some mad bro science.
 
Hyde said:
You don’t want any estrogen at all you definitely need to stay away from steroids. You are hypogonadal. Any gains you make from a blast aren’t going to be maintainable later on without cruising...which means you will need test.

A lot of people who take GW are on a cut. Of course they are hungry. I have only ever used it on bulks and it has never made me hungry. And I can definitely tell it works because I can get a lot more done in a training session without dying when I take it. It works acutely like ephedrine; you don’t need to build up a dosage.

That anxiety thing sounds like some mad bro science.
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Yeah I was just posting some theories I've read. Most of it is extreme broscience lol

And others' have said here that gw drops their blood sugar
 
Iwilleattuna said:
Yeah I was just posting some theories I've read. Most of it is extreme broscience lol

And others' have said here that gw drops their blood sugar
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The blood sugar part is definitely true. I only usually use it when peaking for a comp on harsh compounds or when I was training long strongman sessions, so I am always loaded up on pre & intra carbs for that kind of heavy strength work so I’m covered. But if you maintain blood sugar levels like I am you aren’t going to get a ghrelin spike.

Iwilleattuna said:
I should have specified: I want normal estrogen, but not high estrogen
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And you can maintain that balance via increasing your androgenic compounds and/or modulating aromatization with an AI. Everyone can do this; have some confidence! I promise you can figure out how to control a few hundred mg of gear. Using an AI is no different than some newbie dosing their Dermacrine on feel during an otherwise dry oral-only cycle like SARMs or DMZ. You can follow starter recommendations and then your body will tell you what it wants to adjust from there.
 
Iwilleattuna said:
I should have specified: I want normal estrogen, but not high estrogen
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Eq only, after a while you most likely will end up with low estro. As far as everything else, I gotta agree with Hyde on multiple points.

I think your best bet is some testosterone, maybe 300mg a week and something like 12.5mg exemestane eod. Finish your cycle and drop down to half the dose.

I'm guessing here but I think that's a reasonable approach to get started with this stuff.

Going from your test levels now to what 300 should put you at is a massive increase, and you might not even need the ai but playing it safe with a little exemestane won't hurt.

I'm actually super interested to see what something like that would do for you. Too bad you don't live near me. I'd give you a bttl just to see the results
 
About EQ and low E2, there was a theory: ATD is a Boldenone metabolite. It makes sense, as ATD is a suicidal AI.
 
With a 2 second search lol, obviously I need to read more but something popped up about atd causing a false positive for boldenone
 
I also have to do some research, but seems possible. The actual question is the conversion rate. Or perhaps ATD is a contaminant in boldenone.

Following oral administration of BOL (50 mg, n=6) 17β-hydroxy-5β-androst-1-en-3-one (BM1) and 3α-hydroxy-5β-androst-1-en-17-one were detected as main metabolites besides the parent compound. Additionally lots of other phase-I metabolites together with traces of ATD were detected as metabolites. Their kinetics is monitored up-to 48 hours post-administration where urine collection unfortunately was terminated.
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If after 50 mg of oral boldenone base ATD traces are detected, in a cycle with a common boldenone dosage ATD could play a rol in estrogen metabolism.
 
Thanks @Hyde and you’re exactly right, I need to have confidence about it, plan accordingly and take action. I’m hypogonadal , so it’s necessary.

thanks @Smont hopefully when I do decide everything goes well. I’ve always been interested in using other compounds over test, but test may be the best option for me.

who knows? Maybe having a high testosterone will actually make me less prone to aromatize due to having a higher test:estrogen ratio 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
patrick25 said:
Where did you find the cardarine from nutra innovation I don't see the product on the website
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that’s because they keep it separate from their regular supps. I got it at my local shop. You can tell by the bottle that it’s them too, but the employee told me it’s just NI and their sarm company. They may only
Distribute to shops.
 
UNX said:
I also have to do some research, but seems possible. The actual question is the conversion rate. Or perhaps ATD is a contaminant in boldenone.



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If after 50 mg of oral boldenone base ATD traces are detected, in a cycle with a common boldenone dosage ATD could play a rol in estrogen metabolism.
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yep , I saw this as well. I think there’s a lot we don’t know about boldenone and like I said, it’s such an intriguing compound. Many people report the opposite of testosterone like effects and I’ve seen more reports of hardness , density and vascularity than anything

ATD is a strong AI , so it would make sense
 
Iwilleattuna said:
yep , I saw this as well. I think there’s a lot we don’t know about boldenone and like I said, it’s such an intriguing compound. Many people report the opposite of testosterone like effects and I’ve seen more reports of hardness , density and vascularity than anything

ATD is a strong AI , so it would make sense
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I can't remember which one, but recently I heard on a podcast the guy said he was using eq as part of his contest prep without testosterone and had to take estrogen pills with it.
 
Smont said:
I can't remember which one, but recently I heard on a podcast the guy said he was using eq as part of his contest prep without testosterone and had to take estrogen pills with it.
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that’s crazy! If you could find the link, I’d much appreciate it. Now I want to try this experiment even more, though 😂 . Got to become a 🐎

is eq commonly faked ? I know it’s known not to be and fairly cheap , but I’ve heard many say UGL eq is commonly faked regardless
 
Iwilleattuna said:
that’s crazy! If you could find the link, I’d much appreciate it. Now I want to try this experiment even more, though . Got to become a

is eq commonly faked ? I know it’s known not to be and fairly cheap , but I’ve heard many say UGL eq is commonly faked regardless
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I listen to podcasts on a app on my phone. It might have been on one of the recent beast fitness radio episodes. Probably the cycles without testosterone. Il try to figure it out tomorrow if I get a chance, packing for a little trip so gonna be a little busy
 
bigdadybry said:
I'll am interested in your results Smont and will be watching for updates. I am considering this compound, but in a different approach. I have been "daily carb averse" for 10+ years and it has served me extremely well. I am considering a small training-day-only carb add, but would do split doses with the MK (evening and morning of training with carbs). Because I weight train almost daily, it would eliminate my 3 cheat days/month (I'll call them "carb loading days"). It would be an interesting test that I would re-evaluate after 4 weeks.
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It's only been a couple arm workouts since I started and I'm cutting so that may skew the results but my arms are a little more sperated and more vainy, this is not a post arm workout pic just flexing but here is a close up of progression over 4 arm workouts.

Like I said, only been 4 workouts. Going to need to probably wait about 4-6 more weeks to see real changesInvalid Link RemovedInvalid Link RemovedInvalid Link RemovedInvalid Link Removed
 
Iwilleattuna said:
Vascularity has increased and seeing quality changes
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I'm dropping weight fast so that's probably why the veins are popping out but my arms have slightly increased in size while dropping 10 lbs in the past 3 weeks.

209/210 in pic 1

199/200 in the second

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Smont said:
I'm dropping weight fast so that's probably why the veins are popping out but my arms have slightly increased in size while dropping 10 lbs in the past 3 weeks.

209/210 in pic 1

199/200 in the second
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Great progress in a short period of time. Can you safely attribute your recent progress to that MK/timed carb+eaa add-on given you were stable beforehand and this is the only change?
 
bigdadybry said:
Great progress in a short period of time. Can you safely attribute your recent progress to that MK/timed carb+eaa add-on given you were stable beforehand and this is the only change?
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Well, not really. It's the only thing I've done different, but I've lost weight so that's probably why there's more definition. But at the same time I do have a slight increase in size. There's a lot of variables also, I got fat from a dirty bulk and then loss of muscle during an injury or two. So muscle memory could be part of the increase in size while the weight loss giving me some detail. I think after another month or so I will be able to judge it better
 
I've only been taking the mk with intra carbs and eaa on days that involve arms. On other days it's just eaa and water intra
 
Smont said:
I've only been taking the mk with intra carbs and eaa on days that involve arms. On other days it's just eaa and water intra
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Smont said:
Well, not really. It's the only thing I've done different, but I've lost weight so that's probably why there's more definition. But at the same time I do have a slight increase in size. There's a lot of variables also, I got fat from a dirty bulk and then loss of muscle during an injury or two. So muscle memory could be part of the increase in size while the weight loss giving me some detail. I think after another month or so I will be able to judge it better
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Good to know. I acquired MK and am going to emulate your MK approach, with the goal to not leave a keto state. It will be an end of run add-on to a slight drying stack with potential joint issues. Therefore, the MK can possibly serve two purposes.
 
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