Creatine Nitrate?

mr.cooper69 said:
Caffeine
Ephedrine
Citrulline malate
Creatinol o phosphate
Lclt
Click to expand...

Where would agmatine fit in here?
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Agmatine isn't a proven ergogen, but in theory, it should improve performance, so you can certainly add it.
Click to expand...

Sounds good! Thanks as always Cy
 
David Dunn said:
Angelbolic said:
Sodium and potassium nitrate come to mind and both can be found very cheap.
Click to expand...
Saltpeter or fertilizer...?
Click to expand...

OK...some observations with KNO3:

820mg KNO3 = 500mg NO3 - slightly noticeable pump and endurance but not remarkable.
1230mg KNO3 = 750mg NO3 - I had to make myself stop training. Endurance, stamina and between set recovery were quite noticeably increased.

I dosed the above with 1g and then 2g Vitamin C caps respectively.

I plan to brew this at a 1:1/NKO3:Ascorbic Acid Crystals. Dosed at 2.5g will provide ~750mg of NO3 (1.25g of KNO3) and 1.25g of Vitamin C. I am not mixing in the caffeine yet as I want to evaluate and titrate this up or down without the additional concerns with over stimulation from caffeine.

Vitamin C - inhibits the formation of nitrosamines, which are a by-product of nitrites and not nitrates. With or without the intentional consumption of nitrates our body already regularly consumes nitrates, nitrites and nitrosamines. Some naturally occurring foods contain all three. The thing is that in foods nitrites can form nitrosamines before consumption.

The nitrosamines are the carcinogens and not the nitrate or the nitrites themselves. This can and has been in our industrialized food sources for a long time. As a matter of fact beer used to contain massive amounts nitrosamines and is now still present only at about 2% of what it used to be.

I can make many speculations and extrapolations from this but my question is how much Vitamin C is required to inhibit my endogenous nitrite formation to nitrosamines and how much more would be needed to potentially and safely offset this added nitrate intake?
 
David Dunn said:
Thank you. I will adjust my formulation.
Click to expand...

No problem. For future reference:

mr.cooper69 said:
To be clear, you would never "notice" a problem from pro-oxidation. While I don't see much evidence for vitamin C pro-oxidation besides dose-response curve extrapolations, the bottom line is that if you're supplementing over 500mg in one sitting, you are wasting your vitamin C, as the plasma saturation dose is indeed 500mg (Invalid Link Removed).
Click to expand...

Vitamin C, in this instance, is serving a different function than simply altering oxidation status in the plasma, but 500mg is still a ton, and with conflicting research of mega-dosed (1g +) vitamin C periworkout negatively affecting performance, why chance it.
 
David Dunn said:
OK...some observations with KNO3:

820mg KNO3 = 500mg NO3 - slightly noticeable pump and endurance but not remarkable.
1230mg KNO3 = 750mg NO3 - I had to make myself stop training. Endurance, stamina and between set recovery were quite noticeably increased.

I dosed the above with 1g and then 2g Vitamin C caps respectively.

I plan to brew this at a 1:1/NKO3:Ascorbic Acid Crystals. Dosed at 2.5g will provide ~750mg of NO3 (1.25g of KNO3) and 1.25g of Vitamin C. I am not mixing in the caffeine yet as I want to evaluate and titrate this up or down without the additional concerns with over stimulation from caffeine.

Vitamin C - inhibits the formation of nitrosamines, which are a by-product of nitrites and not nitrates. With or without the intentional consumption of nitrates our body already regularly consumes nitrates, nitrites and nitrosamines. Some naturally occurring foods contain all three. The thing is that in foods nitrites can form nitrosamines before consumption.

The nitrosamines are the carcinogens and not the nitrate or the nitrites themselves. This can and has been in our industrialized food sources for a long time. As a matter of fact beer used to contain massive amounts nitrosamines and is now still present only at about 2% of what it used to be.

I can make many speculations and extrapolations from this but my question is how much Vitamin C is required to inhibit my endogenous nitrite formation to nitrosamines and how much more would be needed to potentially and safely offset this added nitrate intake?
Click to expand...

So how's your experiment going? I really enjoy creatine nitrate, but KNO3 and some Vit C sound like an interesting combination for sure.

Would you mind sharing your source of KNO3?
 
In all honesty, nitrates solo, is not quite the pump as I had anticipated. It is, though, very good for endurance and stamina. I am experimenting with doses and, without any noticeable adverse sides (dizziness, etc.) have gone as high as 1230mg of KNO3 which yields 750mg of NO3.

I will be experimenting and developing my formula to include additional items like Agmatine and Citrulline Malate

Invalid Link Removed
 
KN03 is potassium nitrate correct? I can get 3kg worth and would love to add it to craze or focus XT
 
David Dunn said:
So could I but 3 kilos is a little much, no? That equates to about 10 years worth.
Click to expand...

It's $30 or it. Pharma grade 99.9%purity...

Do you know what scooper could be used that is "close enough" for serving? Ie is there a product that contains a scooper small enough to use
 
Yeah those guys are who I found last night as well. Thanks for the source though.

I've been playing with Cellucore C4, and I like it, but it does not mix well with Hemavol. Hemavol alone produces much more significant pumps. I was hoping the two taken together would be insane, but so far that has not been the case.

I've got a feeling the stims in C4 actually hurt the overall effect due to vasoconstriction. Two scoops of C4 should have 2g of creatine nitrate, so that would be somewhere in the 625mg of nitrates. So far I had yet to have any real negative side effects from that kind of dose.
 
runner_79 said:
It's $30 or it. Pharma grade 99.9%purity...

Do you know what scooper could be used that is "close enough" for serving? Ie is there a product that contains a scooper small enough to use
Click to expand...
You want food grade.

This is a very fine yet dense powder. I presently use my .001 digital scale as I am determining my sweet spot with it right now. Once I mix a formulation of other things like agmatine and citrulline malate I will look into a scoop.

For reference I just used the only micro scoop I have which is .5cc and .5cc scraped level is .570mg (avg of 5).
 
MonsterTruckr said:
Yeah those guys are who I found last night as well. Thanks for the source though.

I've been playing with Cellucore C4, and I like it, but it does not mix well with Hemavol. Hemavol alone produces much more significant pumps. I was hoping the two taken together would be insane, but so far that has not been the case.

I've got a feeling the stims in C4 actually hurt the overall effect due to vasoconstriction. Two scoops of C4 should have 2g of creatine nitrate, so that would be somewhere in the 625mg of nitrates. So far I had yet to have any real negative side effects from that kind of dose.
Click to expand...

Use c-bol and hemavol then call a bicep reconstructive surgeon cause they are gonna blow.
 
Can never find C-Bol anywhere
 
David Dunn said:
So is it safe to assume that the SNS brand is 2:1 - Invalid Link Removed

Curious, why not just straight L-Citrulline then?
Click to expand...

I honestly don't have any answer for you as I was not involved in the creation of our citrulline malate product. What I can say is that, anecdotally, I respond better to it than I did to Smartpowder and Primaforce's. That's not a knock on an opposing company, and I'm sure this statement will be interpreted as full of bias, but that's truly how my experiences played out.

Why not L-Citrulline? A couple reasons:

1. Price. L-citrulline is expensive. L-malate is cheap.
2. Product claims. Product claims, unfortunately, can no longer be extrapolations these days. The exact compound/combo of ingredients needs to match that which was used in the study.
3. What sells. People have heard of citrulline malate. L-citrulline, not so much. I have personally gone through multiple bottles of NOW L-Citrulline caps, at 3g preworkout, and loved it.
 
So I've found my new favorite way to get my Nitrates! I've started dosing my Cellucor C4 (1g Creatine NO3 per scoop) first thing when I wake up.

I had been trying to take Hemavol and C4 together, but the two did NOT play well. I actually got less of a pump from the combination, and had terrible workouts the two times I tried it. I always had low BP issues when I combined the two, which is no fun at all.

So the C4 gives me a nice wake up kick, and then I wait 45min to eat. I then dose hemavol as I normally would PWO, and the space between the two sups really gives them time to shine. I've been taking Hemavol for two months, but the past two workouts I've had the best pumps I've ever had, and I am finally getting those "all day" pumps I was looking for.

I upped my Nitrates to 750mg today, so I should have a solid 550-600mg still in my system when I get to the gym today. It's Chest/tri day which is always my insane pump day, so I'm stoked to see how I do.
 
MonsterTruckr said:
So I've found my new favorite way to get my Nitrates! I've started dosing my Cellucor C4 (1g Creatine NO3 per scoop) first thing when I wake up.

I had been trying to take Hemavol and C4 together, but the two did NOT play well. I actually got less of a pump from the combination, and had terrible workouts the two times I tried it. I always had low BP issues when I combined the two, which is no fun at all.

So the C4 gives me a nice wake up kick, and then I wait 45min to eat. I then dose hemavol as I normally would PWO, and the space between the two sups really gives them time to shine. I've been taking Hemavol for two months, but the past two workouts I've had the best pumps I've ever had, and I am finally getting those "all day" pumps I was looking for.

I upped my Nitrates to 750mg today, so I should have a solid 550-600mg still in my system when I get to the gym today. It's Chest/tri day which is always my insane pump day, so I'm stoked to see how I do.
Click to expand...

How far apart are you spacing the c4 and hemavol, like 2 hrs? I'm guessing you train after breakfast?
 
This morning - 1.64g of KNO3 (1g NO3) workout this morning. I did notice that it is best that I give the dose a full hour before my workout. 3/4th the way through my workout and I became a machine. Sadly I had to stop and go to work.

I will again emphasize that IME the nitrates solo are not producing a pump but rather stamina, endurance and rapid intra-set recovery.

Oh...BTW, salt-peter my ass!
 
I usually get up around 7, and I try to hit the gym right around lunch time. My original goal for spacing the C4/Hemavol out was to let the stims in the C4 die off some as most stims are vasoconstrictors.

I work out as late as 3pm sometimes, but here recently I have been shooting for 11-12pm. I work 7 days on 7 off, so I can only train in my off weeks. I still have not figured out if this is a good thing or a bad thing, but I do not take C4 or Hemavol while I work, so it seems to reset my tolerance to both.
 
David Dunn said:
So is it safe to assume that the SNS brand is 2:1 - Invalid Link Removed

Curious, why not just straight L-Citrulline then?
Click to expand...

A good way to judge is how sour the powder is. Malic acid (malate) is what makes citrulline malate taste nasty. Regular L-Citrulline just has a bland taste. The more sour it is, the more malate it contains.
 
nattydisaster said:
A good way to judge is how sour the powder is. Malic acid (malate) is what makes citrulline malate taste nasty. Regular L-Citrulline just has a bland taste. The more sour it is, the more malate it contains.
Click to expand...
Good to know.

If I can taste it it's already too late...

...that's what she said.
 
Another awesome workout... I love me some nitrates! Changed up my workout and absolutely tore it up. Today was one of those "What else can I lift" days where I had to make myself leave the gym. I knew I was more than done, but my muscles felt like I could keep going.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top